Hope, Change, And A Future (Or Past!) We Can Believe In

My Man In Iowa, or, why did this take so long?

Comments

[rich@gmu]

yeah a music thread.

[henry]

TM, blink twice if you need immediate rescue from your captors. Thrice if you enjoy that song.

[Jack is Back (but in Rehab )]

Rick Astley is almost an institution in the JiB household. One year for the school talent contest Frederick decided he was going to do "Never Going to Give You Up" and for 3 weeks after homework all we got was a single song concert of the song. He ordered a music only back up audio on iTunes to practice to and use in the show.

We did some plays of the varoius music vids Rick had shot for the song and Frederick picked out the right clothes, including a little straw fedora. After the talent show, it was verboten to even hum the damn thing in the house.

[NK]

henry--

I think I parked behind TM's vehicle sunday when I picked up some coffee on the way to the RR station. Beat up pick up with bumper sticker on the cab rear window:

"Ct Redneck"

Tom drinks Ct moonshine so......

[NK]

This German pol states the unpopular obvious. "illegal entry' is an invasion. BTW, she's a babe: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3426138/German-politician-says-migrants-shot-border-trying-enter-country-illegally.html

[(A)Nuther Bub]

Iggy: (From the last thread) Where did you find the information to analyze Trump's healthcare proposals? I can never find a position stated on his official website and when you read through the many articles from googling "Trump on healthcare" (both pro-Trump and anti-) you get only what he's said off-handedly, which mainly amounts to: We'll work something out and it'll be great.

[Porchlight]

From the last couple of threads:

--Trump is for national healthcare. It came out of his own mouth.--

Please quote the words that came out of his own mouth where he says he will enact universal healthcare. Don't just copy and paste the NR article.

The reporting on this interview is absolutely shameful. NR started it by claiming in the headline that Trump supports universal healthcare. This is almost exactly opposite from the clip.

In the clip, Stephanopoulos accuses Trump of supporting universal healthcare, which Trump then denies.

Trump says he "has a heart" and doesn't want people dying in the street, and that we should work with hospitals and doctors to prevent that. We already of course already do this with Medicaid and laws that prevent people from being turned away from hospitals.

He says at one point that "the government will pay for it" but in that sentence he's only talking about care for indigents. Well, no one on the GOP slate is seriously talking about ending Medicaid, so I fail to see how this is some kind of radical position.

Trump goes on to say yes, we will do this to help the poor "but that doesn't mean single payer" THREE TIMES in the clip. He also says that Obamacare is a disaster, that it will likely collapse under its own weight, but nevertheless his plan is to "repeal and replace" Obamacare. Just like most of the other candidates.

Now, you can argue that he doesn't mean it, or you can argue that he can't be trusted. That would be fair. But the spin on what he actually said is just ridiculous.

The anti-Trump people see the headlines they like and roll with them and don't listen or read the actual transcripts, and then have the gall to accuse Trump supporters of blindly following their messiah.

[Truthbetold]

Porch

Go back in time and see what Trump has said in the past.

[Porchlight]

That's not the point of my comment, TBT. I'm talking about this one interview and the shoddy reporting on it.

As I say, you can argue whether he really believes it or whether he's really going to do it (repeal & replace). But you can't argue that he said in this particular interview that he would "enact universal healthcare" (as NR's headline put it). Because he didn't. That was how Steffy characterized his position, and that's what Trump explicitly denies.

[Porchlight]

Here's the transcript of the clip, from the This Week website:

STEPHANOPOULOS: You say that Ted Cruz is a liar, but you have said that you want everyone to be covered on health care and the government is going to pay for it.

How is that not ObamaCare?

TRUMP: I want people takes -- that's true. I want people taken care of. I have a heart. I want people taken care of. If people have no money, we have to help people.

But that doesn't mean single payer. It means we have to help people. If somebody has no money and they're lying in the middle of the street and they're dying, I'm going to take care of that person...

STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you do it?

TRUMP: -- and try and get them back to health. We're going to work with our hospitals. We're going to work with our doctors. We've got to do something.

You can't have a -- a small percentage of our economy, because they're down and out, have absolutely no protection so they end up dying from, you know, what you could have a simple procedure or even a pill. You can't do that.

We'll work something out. That doesn't mean single payer. And I mean, maybe he's got no heart. And if this means I lose an election, that's fine, because, frankly, we have to take care of the people in our country. We can't let them die on the sidewalks of New York or the sidewalks of Iowa or anywhere else.

So -- but that's not single payer and as far as ObamaCare is concerned, one of the staples of my speech -- and you can ask any of my many supporters -- is repeal and replace ObamaCare. It's a disaster. The premiums are...

STEPHANOPOULOS: (INAUDIBLE).

TRUMP: -- going up 25, 35, 45 percent, George. The -- the deduct -- I mean you take a look at what's going on with -- with ObamaCare, it's an outrage. It's probably going to fail on its own unless the Republicans renew it, like they have been, in '17.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: But by '17, ObamaCare will fail on its own.

But a whole staple of my campaign is repealing, getting rid of ObamaCare and replacing it.

[DebinNC]

Amen, Porchlight.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Bub, I'm really busy today and just stopped in to link excellent VDH column on California regressing to feudalism.
Maybe clarice or Porch know where it could be found.

[cheerleader]

Why don't you go back and find Cruz quotes pushing and pushing and pushing for John Roberts to be elected to the SCOTUS. I've read that he was Roberts main cheerleader. I guess we can now blame Cruz for both Obamacare and Roberts.

[cheerleader]

Cruz is not an outsider. He is a career politican and his wife worked for the Bush admimistration as well. (when she wasn't working for G-S.)

[Truthbetold]

Porch

Would it change your vote if you knew Trump was for National Heathcare?

[clarice]

Conservative treehouse.http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/11/the-professional-political-machine-says-donald-trump-is-not-conservative-part-2/

[NK]

repeal and no singlepayer replacement?: so says the man running for the Repub nomination. I support "universal healthcare" which by definition must include expanded taxpayer paid for medical care, so said the major employer who could shift his business costs to taxpayers with universal healthcare. Same Man. Le Donald says and does what is good for Le Donald, at that particular moment, consistyency is no hobgoblin for his YUGE brain.

[narciso]

Of course I linked that nouveau punk art of noise number, last thread.

[Truthbetold]

cheerleader

Would anything change your voting for Trump? or Hillary?

[narciso]

As with malware you have to remove before you install new software.

[henry]

Ole building 7 boy pushing more non-factual material. Oh yeah, a day ending in "y"

[Rick Ballard]

I commend the Atlanta Fed for the clarity and transparency of the relatively new GDP Nowcast. The forecast model is relatively simple and the data sources are clearly delineated.

I particularly like the ease with which forecasts made can be compared to the actual BEA Advance Estimate. The comparison is far easier than the cumbersome method used by the CBO to disguise the hilarious over optimism of the CBO Economic Growth models used by Congress to fabricate facades for its charades.

The Nowcast calls for Q1 GDP to stink slightly less than Q4 GDP (1.2% v .7%) but there is still plenty of time for downward revision prior to the next BEA release.

[Truthbetrolled]

Porch, would it change if you knew I'm a lib and I peed my pants today??

[Sandy Daze]

Public Service Announcement:

Richard Paul Astley was born on 6 February 1966

That is all.

[Captain Hate]

The "dying in the streets" meme completely ignores the history of charitable works by individuals and organizations to provide health care to the honest poor. Shocking that metro Steffi, who like most libs is as tight as a dead heat with giving away his own jack, is blissfully unaware of that.

[Porchlight]

I support "universal healthcare" which by definition must include expanded taxpayer paid for medical care

But he didn't say that, NK.

[Jeff Dobbs]

From the naughty bin (had to break up the link - typepad no likey):

James D. said:
Speaking of voting today, you don't have to be in Iowa to cast a ballot, and you can be sure your vote will go to someone deserving... One of my books is in a contest, and the prize is a custom-produced video ad for the book worth $900. If you go here:

story finds . com / contest / 16835 / book-trailer-contest

...you can vote for DREAM DOCTOR. There's no caucusing all day long in a room with BernieBros. There's no braving a snowstorm. You don't even need an ID. And you can vote as many times as you like (if you clear out the cookie from that site after you vote, anyway).
Reply | 2 hours ago on Meanwhile, Back In …

[narciso]

To be fair captain, that is trump's contribution, but that is an upper easy side mindset.

[NK]

porch, pls. BY DEFINITION 'universal' healthcare must increase taxpayer spending because Obummer's Medicaid and Subidies ($100+B/year and growing)leaves 30+M without coverage and their only access is emergency room care. Trump knows numbers and his call for universal healthcare as an employer was an attempt to shift his healthcare costs to TPs. Nothing wrong with that as far as employers go, as a a taxpayer I disagree.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Come on peeps - if there's one thing JOM is really good at - it's rallying to vote for one of our own...

James is currently in second.

[lyle]

Years ago I played tennis almost weekly with a guy named...Rick Astley.

That is all.

[DebinNC]

Hope this works ....

Vote for James D's "Dream Doctor" here

[rse]

News alert-while we are looking at Iowa we have another Bipartisan bill coming up in the House on housing that the Left is apparently excited about. http://www.cbpp.org/sites/default/files/atoms/files/2-1-16hous.pdf

Continuing in the vein Jim DeMint announced yesterday on behalf of Heritage of conservatism being about building a society of equal opportunity, Paul Ryan is apparently being most obliging.

Law school classmate who went into state politics and is currently out after losing a race for Congress sent out an email about the Grand Ole Party having lost its soul if it nominates Trump.

I think he is right about one thing. IVR, but no one sees it as they once did except maybe the consultants.

[Porchlight]

Trump knows numbers and his call for universal healthcare as an employer was an attempt to shift his healthcare costs to TPs.

I don't know anything about what he's said elsewhere. I repeat that he did not, in this particular interview, call for universal healthcare.

The mischaracterization (to put it charitably) of this interview in mainstream righty venues such as NR is the reason for my comment.

[Appalled]

Porchlight makes the valid point that NR's summary of a typical Trumpian ramble through assorted policy provisions was unfairly headlined. Is it really an improvement that it is impossible to have a clue about his healthcare plan, except that it will likely be yuuuuuge?

[Buckeye]

from the previous thread, where Jeff said:

"Was in Sao Paolo doing training. Up at the front sat a very hawt young lady with a very tight-fitting sweater. I mean you couldn't not notice her."

"But I really didn't pay much attention during the class."

Right then I knew you were lying!

[Jeff Dobbs]

.

[Porchlight]

Appalled, thanks for the support. In the context of this interview and the particular question he was asked, I don't think the nonspecifics are a problem. But I'd like to see more details, for sure. As far as I know he doesn't have an official position statement, so understandably that makes people nervous.

Again, my concern is about this one particular interview. When I find out someone has lied to me about something, one of my first questions is what else have they lied about? So when I see things like this, it makes me question the reporting on Trump in general.

A thought experiment that it is too late to make (and more importantly it would be dishonest) would be to put this exact statement up and attribute it to another candidate, and see how people react.

[Porchlight]

Jeb Bush has reportedly spent $15 million in Iowa. How is this anything but a slush fund from donors to political consultants and other assorted cronies?

[Truthbetold]

Porch

Would it change your vote if Trump was for National Healthcare?

[lyle]

the Grand Ole Party having lost its soul

Whatever "soul" the GOP had it squandered many years ago trying to hand out free shit but doing so by "managing it better."

[Gus]

Rse, the Republican party lost "it's soul", a long time ago.

[Rick Ballard]

I wish Socrates For Idiots had not been issued only in the original Belgian. Purchasers seem to have had rather serious difficulties with very basic concepts.

[Porchlight]

I think rse made sly note of that when she said "I think he is right about one thing." ;)

[DebinNC]

I'm sure if Trump were a Harvard Law trained politico like BOzo, the Clintons, Janet Reno, Sandy Berger, and Ted Cruz, he'd have been more precise in his numerous public statements during the last 30+ yrs.

[NK]

I voted for JamesD.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Buckeye:
Right then I knew you were lying!

HAH! Well, I was oblivious to the flirting, but yeah, it'd be a lie to say I wasn't "paying attention" to her.

[Porchlight]

Are you referring to me in your 1:18, Rick? Come now. We have always gotten along. :)

I don't think one has to be a Trump supporter to object to BS driveby treatment from outlets that are supposed to have higher standards.

[Jeff Dobbs]

Deb:
like BOzo, the Clintons, Janet Reno, Sandy Berger, and Ted Cruz

I see what you did there, you sly devil.

[Appalled]

Porchlight:

I find that a lot of folks covering Trump just let their biases dominate their reporting. Since Trump breeds very strong reactions, that's not a shock. So, if you find Trump quoted as saying something that seems out of his current ordinary, you are right to at least suspect it.

There is still a question as to whether Trump. to the extent he has thought it through, would replace Obamacare with another Obamacare (helpfully called Trumpcare, I would expect.)

A way to figure that out Trump's healthcare views would be to research the sort of benefits he gives his own employees. Since we have not yet had the blaringly headlined article about it, my guess is that his benefit practices are normal, or better than normal for his industry.

[Gus]

Jeff, what color was her sweater!! Ha!

[DebinNC]

I voted for James D.

Thankfully, Jeb!'s attack ads frenzy against Trump, Rubio, and now Kasich should end any broken-convention dreams he may have.

[Porchlight]

Maybe clarice or Porch know where it could be found.

Iggy, I've looked around, too, and can't (yet) find an official position.

Here's your VDH link again in case folks missed it - very good:
https://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/dark-ages-california/1/

[Truthbetold]

Trump hires illegal immigrants. I wonder what kind of health plan they are on?

[Porchlight]

So are we going to make Iowa predictions? Despite my poor record, I guess I'll hop in:

GOP top five in order: Trump, Rubio, Cruz, Paul, Kasich

Dems: Sanders, Clinton, O'Malley

[lyle]

I voted for James D. Do I get a purple finger?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Rick's was a reference to TbT, Porch.

[Jane]

I just voted a second time and we are now tied for 1st. Go vote!

http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=56af55d9e4b0012bd712ec47

[Porchlight]

Ah, thanks, Iggy (and Rick).

[Rick Ballard]

Porchlight,

I was absolutely not referring to you. I've never seen you post the type of one line "question" which is the hallmark of those who didn't quite master Socrates For Idiots.

[Porchlight]

I voted for James! Thanks for reposting the link, Jane - I'd missed it earlier and wondered what folks were talking about.

[Porchlight]

I do need to work on my Socratic method, Rick.
Frankly, some of the Dummies books are too hard for me. :)

[hrtshpdbox]

GOP top five in order:
Cruz, Trump, Bush, Rubio, Kasich

[Dave (in MA)]

Public Service Announcement:

Richard Paul Astley was born on 6 February 1966

That is all.

That's right, only 5 more shopping days until Rick Astley's birthday.

[Truthbetold]

Rick,

Wrong book. It 's

Socrates for when you're dealing with idiots

[Miss Marple]

Very interesting comment on Fox this morning by Bill Hemner, whom I find to be pretty thoughtful.

He wonders if this is the beginning of a different way of campaigning (without consultants, without huge staff, using social media and such) as well as a different way of covering politics (maybe not so much on TV as on web sites).

Porchlight,

I have it a little bit different. Paul still has those fans of his dad at the colleges (unless they caucus for Bernie).

I say Trump, Rubio, Paul. Cruz.

For dems, I think despicable she will pull it out because of their weirdo method of caucusing and union support:

Clinton, Sanders, O'Malley.

For the life of me, I don't get why O'Malley isn't scoring higher. If you loathe Hillary but are worried about Bernie being electable because socialism, it would make sense to go to O'Malley.

Sure, I know he was a pretty bad mayor and governor, but at least he managed something, however incompetently, and he's got the most pleasant appearance and voice of the 3.

[Porchlight]

I heard Paul on Ingraham this morning and they're working the college students hard (his own words). His only hope IMO.

[Truthbetold]

MM

Even dems realize what a complete clown O'Malley is

[henry]

Yes, the candidate with names of foreigners on CIA payroll in unencrypted emails will win Iowa. (ht our Chitown lurking unit). Because why stop at socialism when treason is an option?

[Truthbetrolled]

Here is how vapid brain dead libs think.
1)claim Donald Trump hires illegal immigrants.
2)infer these illegals have no health insurance.
3)conclude that Trump is bad.
Completely retarded, but it's the best a lib troll can do.

No proof of Trump hiring illegals is given.
Illegals have no right to American healthcare or insurance at all, nevermind being required to pay for it themselves.
Donald Trump has no obligation to provide healthcare or insurance to anyone who is here illegally. Meanwhile the lib troll approves of illegals being here in the first place.
This is why it is useless to have discourse with liberals and trolls. They are completely dishonest and ignorant.

[Appalled]

Trump hires illegal immigrants. I wonder what kind of health plan they are on?

Same one as everyone else. In certain hotels, they probably are paying union dues, FUTA and income tax, too.

I doubt that Trump is hiring illegals directly for his construction projects. Thais the job of his contractors.

[Gus]

The FAT WHORE was Secretary of State for the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. I sincerely doubt that George Soros sends unencrypted e-mails. I'm certain the Department of Agriculture/Pigford payouts does not send unencrypted e-mails.

This bitch needs jail time.

[Gus]

I'd like to refresh your memories about why Rodham claimed she set up this server. The same server that has all the details of MILLLLLIONS in foreign govt donations to the Clintoon Crime Family.
It was so she only had to have ONE ELECTRONIC DEVICE a.k.a. her Blackberry. That to, of course was a lie. She has multiple devices.
Libs are diseased, and truthfully, Rodham isn't even a lib, she's a criminal. It has NEVER HAD ANYTHING to do with governance nor policy, it has always been about POWER and WEALTH.

[henry]

Form our Chitown friend, a summary of Hillary crimes related to the serve.

[Truthbetold]

Donald Trump’s companies sought to import 1,100 immigrant workers: report

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/aug/1/donald-trump-companies-sought-to-import-1100-immig/

[henry]

Google imports that many each month.

[clarice]

From a link in Henry's link:http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2016/02/those-emails.html

Go to No 7--Schindler said last week that Sidney Blumenthal's top secret info appeared to come directly from NSA.

[clarice]

http://observer.com/2016/01/hillarys-emailgate-goes-nuclear/
Schindler article

[Truthbetold]

Henry

You really do make me laugh.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

'"universal healthcare" which by definition must include expanded taxpayer paid for medical care, '

Not 'by definition.' Maybe as a practical matter. But I can imagine a system in which there are public clinics dedicated to the uninsured that provide some degree of care, but less costly than Medicaid and all the costs imposed by EMTALA. I'm not sure who ends up paying the latter costs, but I suspect they are taxpayers.

[Jeff Dobbs]

clarice:
Go to No 7

No 7 was an inside job.

[lyle]

So a few CIA operators will have died because of Hilligula's criminality? Think this soulless scrunt gives a shit?

[jimmyk on iPhone]

"A way to figure that out Trump's healthcare views would be to research the sort of benefits he gives his own employees"

Huh? How does that follow?

[Captain Hate]

For the life of me, I don't get why O'Malley isn't scoring higher.

The Socialist Republic of Maryland elected a Republican governor after him, surely a RINO like that porker from Iowa who roots out subsidies like truffles but still. It takes a certain type of inept heresy to do that.

[Truthbetold]

Jeff

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-jPzAakHPpk

[Captain Hate]

So a few CIA operators will have died because of Hilligula's criminality? Think this soulless scrunt gives a shit?

How much of a penalty has Biden suffered for the Seal Team 6 ambush?

[James D.]

Jeff, thanks so much for retrieving my post! And thanks to everyone who voted - I really appreciate it!

I have no idea how long the contest goes before they pick the winner but I'll keep y'all posted.

[Appalled]

jimmyk:

If Trump gives his people zero healthcare, or provides benefits with a narrow range of providers -- then it suggests his attitude towards necessary healthcare is minimal. If he provides plush healthcare for his employees, it also suggests where his head might be. Also, if his plan is aggressive on shrinking costs -- that also might give some ideas on how he might handle the exploding cost of healthcare.

It's all guesswork. This is a way you might make it an educated guess.

[Thomas Collins]

No matter what Trumpster actually said or how it was spinned, I think it's a safe bet that if Trumpster is elected POTUS and he gets himself in gear to have a coherent GOP domestic policy, it will be Rockefeller Republicanism (including giving the Hawaiian good luck sign to those who tick him off).

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUaGeG5gvX18K1iVpIOmUx96c3R762OKRJ5sT2k_bAxkwaXO9wNcvIRHU0

[rse]

henry-I have some minutes of a WH meeting on neuroscience that is stomach churning. Google is involved in a lot of the initiatives.

So is GE and others.

[Miss Marple]

You know, there are now so many people who can be shown to have known about the server and messed with classified stuff on it, I would like to see the whole lot of them rounded up in one of those gigantic mass arrests like they do for drug gangs.

Besides Hillary, I have despised Sidney Blumenthal for almost 20 years. That guy needs to be in the slammer.

By the way, if Chelsea and Bill sent emails on that server, can they be arested too? How about Obama? Or do we just have to put up with him since he won't get impeached?

Could they at least pull his security clearance or take away his Blackberry?

[clarice]

jimmyk--exactly,,When I grew up there were free baby clinics at every school on weekends. The Public Health Service also had free clinics in underserved areas.

[Thomas Collins]

I don't want Chelsea in the hoosegow, MM. She needs to keep her record clean so the 2030 POTUS race can feature Chelsea vs. Ivanka!

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRfEHME5wGAZIRYlf8sd4yc-hsENk3nbzEnSjV56AdTjJLJs-ErI4VvOs

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSSgnzSo80hFjhca3Q2RGDGwZMJsCBosDAkvw_VW3o7weVs_m1n3temNNahqg

[lyle]

http://www.infowars.com/video-hillary-supporters-endorse-karl-marx-for-vp/

You know the ole "shocked face" thing is getting long in the tooth...

[Miss Marple]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/if-ted-cruz-loses-everything-we-thought-we-knew-about-iowa-m#.auo78AYZe

[clarice]

It's San diego--every week he exposes a new batch of idiots.

[Buckeye]

"You know, there are now so many people who can be shown to have known about the server and messed with classified stuff on it, I would like to see the whole lot of them rounded up in one of those gigantic mass arrests like they do for drug gangs."

And interview them all separately so they all start singing.

[Jeff Dobbs]

TC:
so the 2030 POTUS race can feature Chelsea vs. Ivanka!

Aw, man...are we giving up on Sasha and Malia and Barbara and Jenna Bush?

[Miss Marple]

Alas, I must head to stores and UPS store.

Back in an hour or so.

[NK]

That crew won't talk. It would jeopardize their respective pardons.