Reaction To Obama

Some reaction to Obama's long and fascinating interview with Jeffrey Goldberg in The Atlantic:

David Frum is vigorously critical:

The Disappointment of Barack Obama

He admits one major mistake: not making sufficient allowances for how unreasonable other people are.

We let Barack down, probably not for the last time. The Big Finish:

Politics is a realm of paradox. The Obama foreign policy is especially rich in them. A president who professes multilateralism has left the country’s alliances in disarray. A president who justly criticized his predecessor for poor postwar planning in Iraq launched his own war in Libya with no postwar plan at all. A president who rejects religious extremism and authoritarianism has built his Middle East policy on visions of cooperation with extremist and authoritarian Iran. A president who sought to teach America the wisdom of humility never learned that lesson himself.

Of all the paradoxes, maybe the most important will be this: A president who came to office so deeply uneasy about American leadership has—over almost eight years of not providing it—reminded the rest of the world why that leadership is so badly needed.

By way of contrast, Shadi Hamid is respectfully critical:

How Iraq Warped Obama’s Worldview

The president is certain he’s right. Is that what we want in a leader?

His theme:

On October 2, 2002, Barack Obama gave a speech opposing war in Iraq—perhaps, in retrospect, the most important speech he ever gave. He was right, of course, and the foreign-policy establishment was largely wrong. The problem is that politicians who were right about Iraq tend to overestimate what that says about their foreign-policy judgment. For Obama, the effects of being right are magnified. He became president, in part, because of Iraq and the considerable damage the conflict had done to the country. Obama offered the promise of a decisive correction and, for true believers, a kind of spiritual atonement.

Well, on another day I might push back a bit - the planning for the post-invasion occupation was deplorable, but if Iraq was so damn unwinnable how is it that by 2011 Obama could be withdrawing the last of the US troops and declaring it to be "sovereign, stable, and self-reliant"? Since I ask, here is the lefty response - Obama didn't lose because we still hadn't won. And anyway, blame Bush for that timetable.

Uh huh - hence my use of the word "unwinnable", not "won". As to blaming Bush for the withdrawal timetable, everyone expected that to be renegotiated, as Michael Gordon of the NY Times explained. Peter Beinart, not exactly a Bush-man, has more.

But let's move on to the respectful, regretful criticism:

The tragedy of Iraq, if you weren’t careful, was likely to distort your perception of everything that followed, for wholly understandable reasons.

Iraq’s dark shadow seems to be everywhere in Jeffrey Goldberg’s fascinating yet unsettling exchanges with Obama. “Multilateralism regulates hubris,” Obama says. And he is right: It does. What is left unsaid is why, exactly, regulating hubris should, seven years after the conclusion of the Bush era, remain a primary preoccupation. It is hard to imagine any world leader citing the hubris of overextension as the problem that the United States, today, must take extra care to correct for or guard against. Obama has already corrected for it, many times over.

Elsewhere, there are straw men to be built. “Every time there is a problem, we send in our military to impose order,” Obama says, except that no one favoring intervention in Syria has called for Iraq-style military action. Obama says that “there are going to be times where the best that we can do is to shine a spotlight on something that’s terrible, but not believe that we can automatically solve it,” except that I’m not aware of a single critic of Obama’s Syria policy who believes intervening against Bashar al-Assad would “automatically solve” anything. The stated goal was always rather different: to diminish the Assad regime’s ability to kill and to provide clear incentives for Russia, Iran, and Assad to change their calculus and begin negotiating in something resembling good faith with Syrian rebel forces. Meanwhile, comments like “there is no way we should commit to governing the Middle East and North Africa” again present a wildly false choice.

Obama’s tendency to distort beyond recognition the positions of his critics goes hand in hand with an apparent disdain for those critics and, perhaps more worryingly, an unwillingness to even so much as question his own decisions after he’s made them.

Ouch. That last bit - lack of curiosity, introspection and reflection - was a prime knock on Bush.

Elsewhere, he faults himself for underappreciating “the value of theater in political communications.” Of course, what Obama is faulting himself for is not clearly appreciating the faults of others.

As David Frum also observed. And now, in the cruelest stroke, praise for Bush!

It is jarring to hear, in such measured words, a president so confident in his own abilities (George W. Bush, contrary to popular perception, was willing to reassess his policies, shift direction, and accept outside counsel during his second term). The colorfully rendered Obama doctrine of “don’t do stupid shit,” itself a phrase dripping with disdain, is little more than a reaction to critics who Obama thinks, presumably, support doing stupid shit.

Unsurprisingly, Muslim have disappointed Obama:

In Goldberg’s article, Obama repeatedly imposes a deeply problematic framework—and a rather patronizing one—on Muslims as well as “Islam.” Obama speaks of the need for Muslims to “undergo a vigorous discussion within their community about how Islam works as part of a peaceful, modern society.” He speaks of a “reformation that would help people adapt their religious doctrines to modernity.” That Islam—a completely different religion with a completely different founding and evolution—should follow a path similar to Christianity’s is an odd presumption. Why, exactly, should Christianity and its eventual secularization in the West be the standard by which other religions are judged? The Reformation was a response to clerical despotism. The modern Middle East’s curse, if anything, has more often than not been secular despotism. In the pre-modern era, meanwhile, it was a self-regulating clerical class that, as keepers of God-given law, provided a check on the sultan’s executive power and authority, as Harvard’s Noah Feldman has argued.

Perhaps these are understandable oversights, but they recur in Goldberg’s article, suggesting that these aren’t oversights at all, but rather features of Obama’s evolving framework for understanding the region.

And the Big Finish:

President Obama styles himself a cool, modern technocrat, whose most valued trait is his ability to withstand the passions of political life. He is prudent where others are impetuous. He is rational where others—especially Russian presidents and Arab autocrats—insist on acting against their own self-interest. Looked at another way, however, Obama has proved to be an ideological president, one with a developed, even philosophically coherent worldview. If there was one thing I became even more persuaded of after reading Goldberg’s account, it was that Obama is not just an intelligent man, but a brilliant one. He is also a president who believes, with something resembling passion, that he is doing the right thing. This, I have come to realize, is precisely what worries me the most.

Obama is presumably waiting for the Muslim fever to break as he waits for the Republican fever to break. Why is universal enlightenment taking so long?

 

Comments

[Frau Mathematik]

Carried forward - great article about the 10th grade Israeli student whose geometry work made news. I've sent it to my younger granddaughter (second yr. college) who seems to feel most comfortable with math.

This mention of her teacher caught my attention:

Gabriel-Morris, a former chef who retrained as a math teacher, worked with Tamar to research the subject and helped her develop the new mathematical theorem, proving that it could serve as an easy, convenient solution for many geometry problems.

[henry]

So he's as bad at President stuff as he is at basketball. I'm not surprised by that. He is indeed the perfect "global man" -- the peak competence which we will look back upon as common core reduces the competence of the population to below Obama. The current crop in college is on the whole even more self satisfied with even less reason than Obama. I, of the evil white patriarchy, will create my robots and hoard them for my private purposes. The world can hang (and is well on its way to doing so).

[Captain Hate]

Obama’s tendency to distort beyond recognition the positions of his critics goes hand in hand with an apparent disdain for those critics and, perhaps more worryingly, an unwillingness to even so much as question his own decisions after he’s made them.

The Ferret is the organ grinder in this charade by making Zippy believe the cartoons in his empty head are a documentary.

[narciso]

getting the memo late in the game,

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/administration-breaks-silence-on-sailors-detained-by-iran

[Tonto]

Re-emerging from The Lurk and the dead thread to re-wish Porch a Happy Birthday.

[Frau Mathematik]

"worldview. If there was one thing I became even more persuaded of after reading Goldberg’s account, it was that Obama is not just an intelligent man, but a brilliant one.

Was there a "/s" that failed to print? I read that interview and failed to see any shred of brilliance.

"...a cool, modern technocrat"
Did Beinert grab these words out of a hat? Our Community-Agitator-in-Chief fails in all three categories. Beinert shies away from the "f" word in pointing to this:

By ignoring Iraq, and refusing to defend democratic principles there, he (BHO) has helped spawn the disaster we see today.

Sounds like "f"ailure to me.

[mad jack]

Did I miss the part where Zero's "... developed, even philosophically coherent worldview." is explained in words we non-brilliant rubes can understand? Or because we are dealing with a deity it should be understood that we need to take it on faith.

[narciso]

keyser soze, anyone,

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/15/europe/berlin-deadly-car-explosion/index.html

pinette is exceedingly obtuse,

[Frau Mathematik]

Porch had a birthday? JOM needs a special *Birthday Alert* signal. I've been swimming through the Niagara of threads but not fast enough. Thanks, Tonto.

Porch, HB. Count your blessings that you and your loved ones are safe and healthy and that the preezy did not visit Austin on YOUR DAY.

[Captain Hate]

Obama didn't lose because we still hadn't won

Wasn't Michael Yon pointing out the troops were bored there because of the stability?

[derwill]

The world has gotten too dangerous to survive this level of incompetence for long.

[lyle]

At home feeling a bit punkish and listening to Rush, whom I seldom get a chance to. He's working The Mailman's Son over pretty good but the worst part is the nat'l news on the hour where they play audio of The Smartest Guy Ever™ denouncing all the harsh rhetoric and concomitant violence it may entail...as if he's never had a [redacted] thing to do with any of it. [redacted!]

[Frau Spucke]

Not to worry, narciso. The authorities say it was not terrorism:

...the 43-year-old man had been linked to crimes involving illegal drugs, forged currency and gambling until 2008, after which he went quiet.

No mention of the length of his residence in Germany or if he was considered a "dual citizen." [spit]

[NK]

HB Porch!

[Captain Hate]

Levin played a montage of Zippy's "get in their faces" tomato can prevention steps which the MFM somehow seems unaware of.

[Frau Spucke]

derwill - Jerry Brown threatens to build a wall around CA if the Wrong Person wins the Nov election. A wall around ID might be called for to keep out undesirables as well.

lyle - that $200k that the mailman's son reportedly received from Daddy $oros has brought out the strangest statements from a conservative's mouth. No dog whistle was used. I hope the good citizens of OH have a chance to digest them.

[DrJ]

Happy birthday, Porchlight! And a belated one to you too, henry!

[Jane]

As many of us recall, today is also the anniversary of Bad's death.

Thinking of her.

[Frau Spucke]

CH - It's good to be king!

[narciso]

find, Jerry, maybe you could do without the electricity that comes from Arizona, that card wasn't played last timr, effectively,

[Frau Atomkraft über alles]

Sustainability or Bust--

CA doesn't need any stinkin' electricity!!!!!
We're Settlers.

[Captain Hate]

Kasich better be planning to do better in the last two years of the job he pretends is on autopilot while he's making jaunts hither and yon.

[Dave (in MA)]

Moonbeam could use his wall to keep people in.

[narciso]

Salafism is the reformation, Wahhabi being the leading expression, note how it dominates the mosques both in the Gulf and the greater ummah,
what they vainly wish for is a Vatican 2, I don't see that happening in a long time,

[Captain Hate]

So is Clownifornicate like the city of Cleveland depending upon the kindness of others while copping an arrogant attitude on energy? Puny Muny's generators were the biggest pollution belchers outside of the Soviet Union before they were mercifully shut down.

[Threadkiller]

Does Jerry now think walls work?

[derwill]

At my book club last night the conversation turned briefly to the election and a couple of people volunteered who they'd voted for in the Republican primary.* On woman said she voted for Kasich, and another woman said, in all sincerity, "Are you sure? Because you couldn't have voted for Kasich--he's a Democrat."

* In case you didn't know, the primary last week was only for Republicans. The Democrats will be holding a caucus later on.

[lyle]

I'm all for Moonbeam walling his subjects in! (Note to all CA JOMers: leave now!) :)

[Captain Hate]

I don't see how Islam can have a reformation or any significant changes without a central hierarchy.

[narciso]

what part of no are they not getting,

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/disney-announces-fifth-indiana-jones-875794?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_943479

[God is great, but God, give me more.]

n., it seems Allah has placed unworked for wealth in the hands of his adherents, as temptation.

[Frau Atomkraft über alles]

CA's Gov. Choo-Choo has a small smell of corruption leaking according to today's newsette; however, he gets a pass from all the idiots who were not around when he was Gov. Moonbeam.

[Old Lurker]

Thanks for the reminder, Jane.

[Captain Hate]

I'll always remember bad for making me feel very welcome when I first came here. Plus she laughed at my jokes.

Has anybody been in touch with Janet? I have her email if nobody responds.

[Threadkiller]

Janet commented on the previous 2 threads, CH.

She is busy with her mom.

[Buckeye]

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-03-15/soros-alarmed-by-trump-pours-money-into-2016-race

In the words of my favorite FedEx employee, "would somebody please off this f%#&".

[maryd]

CH, Janet checked in on the Hillary thread late morning.

[narciso]

is this your card,

http://babalublog.com/2016/03/15/surprise-castro-regime-arrests-cuban-youth-for-meeting-with-obama-advisor/

[clarice]

Such a sad anniversary. Whenever I see pictures of blue bells I think of her.

[narciso]

so sad indeed, the first one of friends who passed on this board,

[narciso]

I think he's probably got that backwards but it's worthy of a discussion,

https://kyleorton1991.wordpress.com/2016/03/14/a-price-of-americas-detente-with-iran-al-qaeda-gains-ground-in-syria/

[Comanche Voter]

Obama is a "brilliant man". My aching Aunt Fanny.

And as Obama repeatedly disses our allies in the article--and all others who disagree with him, I can only conclude that he is a bullshitter smashing crockery in a china shop.

[Sue]

The bluebonnet is a wild flower and the state flower of Texas. They start blooming in the Hill Country earlier than where I am. Once they start here, the median of the interstate between here and Dallas is a river of blue. So beautiful. And always a reminder that bad was here.

[Sue]

Obama is so brilliant they refuse to release his school grades,

[Eric in Boise]

It galls me no end that so many of the folks clutching pearls and crying in ringing tones that Trump is too ignorant/arrogant/divisive (take your pick) to lead the country are willing to give Obumbles a pass for the exact same qualities. I'd like to ask each of them "Where the [redacted] have you been the past eight years?"

[-peter]

Sue Obama was too smart for his professors to appreciate

[NK]

c'mon -- Obummer was too smart to ever go to class. A regular savant.

[Porchlight]

As many of us recall, today is also the anniversary of Bad's death.

Thinking of her.

Yes. The bluebonnets are in full bloom. I can't believe it's been six years.

And in honor of bad: Obama still sucks.

[Frau Atomkraft über alles]

narciso @ 3:21 - it would have been simpler to just burn the money spent making it clear that the US is governed by Smart Diplomacy Suckees.

[_peter]

are blue bells the same as blue bonnets?

[Jack is Back!]

From the wayback machine:

"LA Times: Obama is so smart that his mouth can’t keep up with his brain
by EDITOR on MAY 28, 2011"

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

In memory of bad, and to honor Porchlight's b'day, Frau's Texas Ranger ancestor, all of JOM's current and former Texans, and those whose families/forbears once lived there . . .

A little bit o' heaven, Texas-style

Hope y'all like it.

(full size with the right click trick)

[Frau Atomkraft über alles]

Another Nobel Peace Prize winner whose brilliance we could do without:

Carter, who ushered in the 1979 peace treaty between Israel and Egypt, addressed the current diplomatic process between Israel and the Palestinians and criticized Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's insistence that Israel be recognized as a Jewish state.

"I don't think that any Arab country can agree to that. And this is something, as you know, that's been resurrected [by] Netanyahu. This never was an issue when I was in office and trying to negotiate peace," he said. (2014)

[Threadkiller]

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trump-supporter-baffles-cnns-baldwin-with-birther-rant-against-rubio-cruz-and-obama/

[Threadkiller]

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2016/03/secretary-of-state-ken-detzner-issues-statement-about-palm-beach-county-voting.html

[Old Lurker]

Huh???

"Benjamin Netanyahu's insistence that Israel be recognized as a Jewish state."

[Frau Atomkraft über alles]

Wonderful glimpse of Texas splendor, Michael.

...and Thanks for remembering my Texas forebear.

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

peter - Bluebells are a member of the hyacinth genus, while Texas bluebonnets are a member of the lupine genus.

Similar in appearance, but not closely related.

[Threadkiller]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/03/reports-trump-left-off-some-florida-ballots/

[Miss Marple 2]

TK,

Florida officials told Fox that if you are an independent, you aregiven a local ballot only and cannot vote in the presidential primary. So there is a ballot without the presidential race on it.

I am only reporting what Fox said. I don't know if that is accurate or a CYA for getting caught.

[centralcal]

Beautiful, Michael! I was born in Texas, but left when a toddler, so I have no memories of the Bluebonnets (I do have memories of oil rigs, though).

I too join in missing bad (aka sad and mad - depending on where she was commenting)who had a fabulous sense of humor, talent for mimicry, and gone from us far too young!

[Jack is Back!]

MM,

That is correct in re Florida election law. You must be registered either as a Dem or Rep in order to vote in either's primary. General election is different, of course. I voted absentee. Hope it gets counted:)

[Michael (fpa Patriot4Freedom)]

"forebears" - *not* forbears.

I fear that my grandmother, the former English teacher, is unhappy with me right about now.

[maryd]

JiB -- great t have you posting again.
How are things going?

[narciso]

yes, that is the law, however there will be a conspiracy theory spun around it, because brawndo,

[Theo]

New Thread!

[GUS]

Excuse me my friends. I am not one that is usually known to STAY ON TOPIC........But...........David Frum is a pathetic F(REDACTED FOR LENT)WAD.

Obama did not "launch" a war on Libya. NEVER (redacted for LENT) happened.
I have mentioned it here MANY TIMES. I was sitting in my cousins home in Perth Scotland dumbfounded as I watched the (redacted for LENT) in CHIEF, tell the world that his NATO ALLIES would take care of Libya. Obama is a coward.
Is OBAMA still LEADING A 60 Nation coalition vs ISIS?????? If you believe that CRAP you need help.

[Comanche Voter]

Obama leads from the caboose. But then bathhouse Barry has spent a lot of time in the caboose.

[pagar a bacon, country ham and sausage supporter]

Michael @4:30 love the picture!

So thankful for the time we had Bad here at JOM.

[Porchlight]

bad was a funny lady and always positive. Lucky Jeff got to meet her and her family!