I Have A Problem With Peter Beinart's Problem

Via Glenn, Peter Beinart in The Atlantic flags a problem with Bill Clinton's speech to the Democratic Convention (CNN transcript):

But the worst moment of the speech came near its end, when Clinton began to riff about the different kinds of people who should join Hillary’s effort. “If you love this country, you’re working hard, you’re paying taxes, you’re obeying the law and you’d like to become a citizen, you should choose immigration reform over someone that wants to send you back,” he said. Fair enough. Under any conceivable immigration overhaul, only those undocumented immigrants who have obeyed the law once in the United States—which includes paying taxes—will qualify for citizenship. Two sentences later, Clinton said that, “If you’re a young African American disillusioned and afraid … help us build a future where no one’s afraid to walk outside, including the people that wear blue to protect our future.” No problem there. Of course African Americans should be safe from abusive police, and of course, police should be safe from the murderers who threaten them.

But in between, Clinton said something dreadful: “If you’re a Muslim and you love America and freedom and you hate terror, stay here and help us win and make a future together, we want you.” The problem is in the assumption. American Muslims should be viewed exactly the same way other Americans are. If they commit crimes, then they should be prosecuted, just like other Americans. But they should not have to prove that they “love America and freedom” and “hate terror” to “stay here.” Their value as Americans is inherent, not instrumental. Their role as Americans is not to “help us win” the “war on terror.”

Whether Clinton meant to or not, he lapsed into Trumpism: the implication that Muslims are a class apart, deserving of special scrutiny and surveillance, guilty of terrorist sympathies until proven innocent...

I have a problem with their problem - what is the basis for assuming Clinton is specifically talking about American Muslims, rather than Muslims here as tourists, students or workers on a visa?

The reason I ask is that it is perfectly obvious that when Clinton talks about valuing the support of those who would "like to become a citizen" and exhorts them to "choose immigration reform", he is obviously not talking about citizens.

As to just how these citizen-aspirants are meant to show their support for immigration reform, well, I hope our former President was not advocating vote fraud from the convention podium. I also hope he was not encouraging foreigners to write illegal checks to the Hillary campaign.

Of course if foreigners are in this country, legally or well, pre-documentation, I am sure they are free to attend rallies, stuff envelopes, staff phone banks and knock on doors. So sure, let them show their support. Non-Citizens United for Hillary! Should be a winning message, since who really trusts America to be run by the Americans anyway?

Since Clinton was clearly talking about foreigners in the immigration passage I don't know why Mr. Beinart isn't willing to extend him that courtesy in evaluating the Muslim passage. And Clinton's plea that these Muslims should "stay here and help us win" suggests they might be thinking of leaving, which is surely more likely for a foreigner.  Of course, that interpretation compounds the awkward question of just what mix of foreign and domestic support the Clinton's are seeking, but let's Move On.

 

Comments

[-peter]

Anyone who was awake at that point must have been on something

[Neo]

IRS opens investigation of corrupt Clinton Foundation "pay-to-play" activities.

I guess this means we can't talk about the "ongoing investigation" of the Clinton Foundation.

[buccaneer morgan]

I have trouble taking beinart seriously since around 2006, obviously they aren't paying taxes (under their own name) they are at least enabling criminal activity, and not actively challenging terrorists

[buccaneer morgan]

This high end bunko artist reminds of the fictional one in American hustle, with Christian bale and Amy adams, she's the "respectable' one he runs the scans.

[henry]

-peter if by "everyone" you include Clinton, you are undoubtedly correct.

[henry]

All charges dropped against remaining Baltimore police in Freddie Gray matter.

[Art in Newport]

.. must have been on something ..

'On' Pacific Time? :)

[jimmyk]

Beinart's an idiot. He also claimed the opposition to Hillary is due to sexism.

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2016/07/27/atlantic-writer-claims-hillarys-high-negatives-are-signs

Not to defend Clinton, but his treatment of all three groups (immigrants, blacks, and Muslims) was the same. He didn't say Muslims had to "prove" anything, any more than he did for immigrants or blacks.

[buccaneer morgan]

furthermore, beinart is part of the new america foundation, with max blumenthal, spawn of sid,
who calls all israelis nazis, who shared a blog at the basilisk,

[clarice]

Charges dropped against remaining 3 defendants in Freeddie Grey case.

[clarice]

Repeating some stuff from the tale end of last thread, posted w/o knowing of this thread..
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/07/27/poll-los-angeles-times-usc-dornsife-trump-47-clinton-40/

[buccaneer morgan]

now they can try to put their lives back together, as it takes another generation for baltimore to recover,

[Threadkiller]

Thanks for the Hat tip, Art!

I love the improvement!

[Threadkiller]

Porch, wish you daughter a Happy Birthday!

TLG, the same for your son!

And HAPPY ANNIVERSARY MR. and Mrs. GUS!

[buccaneer morgan]

happy birthday for those one the other thread,

the rising gorge of revulsion seems clear doesn't it,

[Art in Newport]

Thank you, TK

[Truthbetold5]

When is Trump going to promise that he will prosecute Clinton if he is elected president?

[buccaneer morgan]

ah twitch, can we have a few words with you,

http://freebeacon.com/issues/labor-unions-abandon-ted-strickland/

[Tom Bowler]

"I hope our former President was not advocating vote fraud from the convention podium."

Good one TM. Clinton appeals to the illegal alien voter demographic:

“If you love this country, you’re working hard, you’re paying taxes, you’re obeying the law and you’d like to become a citizen, you should choose immigration reform over someone that wants to send you back,”

[Matt]

Which one, TBT? Or all of them?

[squaredance]

Tee Hee

[Threadkiller]

The Mayor should give the Baltimore 6, and their supporters, a little room to destroy.

It is the least she could do.

[Captain Hate]

If you love this country, you’re working hard, you’re paying taxes, you’re obeying the law and you’d like to become a citizen, you should choose immigration reform over someone that wants to send you back,”

Tell it to Kate Steinle, pervert.

[buccaneer morgan]

I would have gotten away with it,. . .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/27/eu-appoints-former-french-minister-who-blames-britain-for-losing/

[henry]

John Hinckley not only free, but moving to Virginia to live in his mothers basement. This McAwful will give him the right to vote?

[Truthbetold5]

All of them! However, I am reasonable, a promise to indicted Hillary will suffice for now

[James D]

clarice @ 10:06

That's good news.

It might be a useful exercise for someone at the RNC to total up how much taxpayer money the Democrat DA and Democrat mayor of Baltimore spent on a prosecution that they knew from the start was not only pointless and unwinnable, but totally malicious.

And they could add in the legal defense costs for the police (also ultimately paid by taxpayers via the police union), too.

[buccaneer morgan]

stop hawking factor gear, and pick up a book, your ghost david fisher knows a few,

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3710279/Bill-O-Reilly-DEFENDS-use-slaves-build-White-House-saying-fed-decent-lodging-Michelle-Obama-s-speech-daughters-living-slave-built-home.html

[Threadkiller]

Newt will be Vice President!

[Captain Hate]

squaredance's link is so funny. I doubt that addled crones like Cankles and squaw can even use mobile devices so the question is what nitbrain is pretending to be them and getting trucked by Trump? Outstanding strategy imo.

[Jack is Back! (From PT Hell!)]

In the UK, where firearms are banned, the best way to protect yourself from a terror attack is to run and hide, not play dead, says the Security Services.

I would think that in America we have other options, like in Switzerland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/how-to-survive-a-terror-attack-run-and-hide---dont-play-dead-say/

[Truthbetold5]

Trump says if he loses he will blame Pence

[buccaneer morgan]

probably mook, is left with the chore, like cleaning out cat litter boxes.

Razorback's speech didn't go over to well on social media,

[Dave (in MA)]

"Tee Hee"

I can't find that actually on Twitter, so I'm wondering if it's real.

[henry]

who turned on the AC?

BREAKING NEWS: EXPLOSION REPORTED IN ZIRNDORF, GERMANY.

[henry]

Office of Migration in Zirndorf...

[Captain Hate]

Dave, it's as real as any of Rodham's accomplishments that helped the country like that blink of an eye ham-ass ceasefire.

[Captain Hate]

Does the DNC plan on having Lurch snap off a limpdick salute and thunder "I'm Reporting for Doody"? That might set a new Philthy booing record.

[henry]

They have Biden and Obama tonight...

[Threadkiller]

CH, I remember Cruz getting caught/recorded at a private fundraiser dogging Trump, while publicly talking lovingly about him.

I think that is where the Lyin' stuff was born.

[buccaneer morgan]

what frogs and boils weren't available, of frabjous joy,

[Jane]

"It might be a useful exercise for someone at the RNC to total up how much taxpayer money the Democrat DA and Democrat mayor of Baltimore spent on a prosecution that they knew from the start was not only pointless and unwinnable, but totally malicious.

And they could add in the legal defense costs for the police (also ultimately paid by taxpayers via the police union), too."

Don't forget the $5m they gave the family within days, represented by the Mayor's good buddy.

[Truthbetold5]

TK

Did I miss the announcement that Cruz was running as an independent?

[Captain Hate]

Thanks, TK. These private fundraisers are really where these candidates stomp on their Johnsons. You'd think they'd learn.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--“If you love this country, you’re working hard, you’re paying taxes, you’re obeying the law and you’d like to become a citizen, you should choose immigration reform over someone that wants to send you back,” he said. Fair enough. Under any conceivable immigration overhaul, only those undocumented immigrants who have obeyed the law once in the United States—which includes paying taxes—will qualify for citizenship.--

If you enter the country illegally and stay here aren't you kind of by definition not obeying the law?

Or have our betters decided immigration laws entered that "you can't use a store-side spittoon while riding your horse north on the sidewalk on Tuesday" realm of silly, archaic laws that might have once made sense but are now merely laughed at by all right thinking people?

[Truthbetold5]

Jane

If I am not mistaken it was $6M

[buccaneer morgan]

the chaplain at the saudi naval academy, begs to differ,

http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/07/27/pope-francis-the-world-is-at-war-but-it-is-not-a-war-of-religions/

[buccaneer morgan]

yes, they get looted twice, the downtown is wrecked and well a city like baltimore could spare 6 million right,

[buccaneer morgan]

all of the interesting news is not fit for major outlets, wonder why,

http://dailycaller.com/2016/07/26/dnc-hack-for-the-love-of-god-dont-talk-about-common-core/

[GUS]

I hear the school system is hiring thugs at $165,000.00 per.

[clarice]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/

Latest polls.

[Jane]

Probably TBT. That's $2m for the lawyer for a phonecall. At the taxpayer's expense.

[clarice]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13645073_841912603458_5338135218734857787_n.jpg?oh=0e25b2bae25bee03d25834574d6e859f&oe=58299D8B

some sage advice about emails

[Buckeye]

Shrillary will have to give a real barn burner acceptance speech to get much bounce out of a convention that so far has been a total clusterfork.

Do I smell dead cat???

[Frau Mietze]

Online comment -
"My cat has lost one of its nine lives waiting for Bill Clinton to stop talking."

[Truthbetold5]

Jane, don't rule out that it might have been accomplished in an email with these idiots.

[squaredance]

oh they will manufacture some sort of bounce for her. There will no doubt be some sort of bounce due to the various "victim communities" too.

If not, then it shows that the MSM is being ignored.

[Frau Mietze]

narciso @1:05 -
Well, common core is *the* question to ask of ALL Dems running from Hillary! on down to the lowest dweeb on the ballot.
Make 'em squirm.

[JM Hanes]

From jimmyk’s link @ 10:02:

Beinart: But I don't think you can explain Hillary Clinton's unfavorable ratings without understanding the way that men, and some women, who are traditionally minded respond to women when they start to take traditionally male roles. There is an enormous amount of social science.

And what part of her 56% unfavorables does that represent? Folks like Beinart never even try to quantify that actual effect. In contrast, explaining why 68% of the WaPo’s respondents believe Hillary is a liar is easy peasy. Somehow I don’t think it helps when women like Martha Stewart (see also: Gloria Steinham & Madelaine Albright) insult everyone's intelligence, including their own:

“We as women should be so proud that there is a strong and viable candidate,” said Ms. Stewart, a Clinton supporter. “Yet there are women who are not even thinking about her as a woman. They are just listening to criticisms of her that she is a liar.”

But then, perhaps Stewart has an understandable interest in defending liars.

As for the current state of play:

While 52% of registered female voters from both parties support Mrs. Clinton the proportion falls to 36% among white women ages 50 to 64 and 34% among white women ages 35 to 49, according to a Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll this month….

Mrs. Clinton’s highest levels of support among all women registered to vote, including Republicans, are from those ages 65 and older—56%—and 66% for ages 18 to 34. Millennials are among the most liberal voters….

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump is supported by 37% of all women in the poll, 54% of white women ages 50 to 64, and 51% of those women ages 35 to 49.

As usual, whenever I see percentage stats like these, I always wonder what kind of actual voter numbers we are talking about. Am I wrong in thinking that capturing barely over a third of white women from 35 to 64 represents a historic low for a Democrat?

Mrs. Clinton has embraced the history-making component of her candidacy after shying away from it during her 2008 campaign. Eight years ago, she and her advisers concentrated on showing she was prepared to be president, making only occasional mentions of the historic nature of her candidacy.

Yeah, hard to make the 3:00am phone call argument after Benghazi. If, like me, you think this issue has become even more of a loser than last time around, it looks like maybe we'd be right. The WSJ has got yer women right here, and they are not in the mood:

[JM Hanes]

TBT:

"When is Trump going to promise that he will prosecute Clinton if he is elected president?"

Alas, I’m afraid we’ll have to wait till he names Newt Gingrich as his running mate for that.

[Eric in Boise]

JMH, was one of the "have some reservations" responses Elizabeth Warren?

[buccaneer morgan]

why I regard lower than dirt,

https://pjmedia.com/ronradosh/2013/12/31/the-anti-semitic-jew-max-blumenthal-and-how-peter-beinart-views-his-repulsive-views/

[Truthbetold5]

JMH

Are you saying you do not think Trump should make that promise?

[Dave (in MA)]

BREAKING NEWS: EXPLOSION REPORTED IN ZIRNDORF, GERMANY.

Latest reports say no explosion, but a "detonation incident".

[henry]

Dave, a suitcase of those spring "snakes"?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Martha Stewart defending Hillary on honesty issues is like Mike Tyson defending BillyJeff re rape charges.

Oops. Wait a minute, even the Trump supporting Mike Tyson has better sense and higher morals than Martha Stewart. Never mind.

[GUS]

Man caused detonation incident.

[Neo]

The USC Dornsife / LA Times Presidential Election "Daybreak" Poll has Trump +7

[Neo]

Yet another event for which the motive will never be understood.

[Dave (in MA)]

Possible exploding aerosol can inside a suitcase.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0727/805239-germany-explosion/

[jimmyk on iPhone]

Kerry omitted aerosol sprays from his list of grave dangers. Remember when they were supposed to erode the ozone layer?

[squaredance]

The whole construct of "we women should be proud of..." such and such a politician, or even a particular woman in general. is truly bizarre, and it showa how some substantial portion of females--I hesitate to say "women"--are manipulated by identity politics and the various feminist political fronts, and their own native vanity and egoism.

Imagine if men were to say "we men should be proud of..." this or that male candidate?

Here we see three of the strangest things about feminist identity politics: this constant 1) claim by some (almost all>) feminist to "speak for women", when in fact the are only speaking for themselves; and 2) this claim that some how "women" as a group are responsible for some other woman's "accomplishment", and 3) last but not least, the fabrication of accomplishments--asking us to always squint our eyes and accept any bit of sloganeering as "equal accomplishments" to men.

It all makes "women" look childish and incapable of meaningful thought. the constant need to acclaim themselves as "smart", "Strong" or "accomplished", really leads one to think that the reality is otherwise. Imagine a group of men going around and acclaiming how "smart", "Strong" or "accomplished" would be viewed.

It actually looks like a instance of the very stereotypes the Victorians had of "women".

[cheerleader]

The big news is that Trump at his Doral presser called Huma's husband and "sleazeball" and "pervert".

[GUS]

OH yes, I remember Albuterol asthma inhalers nearly quadrupled in cost because of non-existant global warming. But you got to keep your Dr.

[cheerleader]

They were discussing national security.

[Porchlight]

All charges dropped against remaining Baltimore police in Freddie Gray matter.

Hallelujah. I hope they successfully sue the city of Baltimore for millions and millions of dollars.

Freddie Gray's family got six million before the trial even started.

[henry]

Gus, you going to the Pence thing tonight?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Remember when they were supposed to erode the ozone layer?--

Yes, the pinkos demanded those ozone unfriendly CFCs be eliminated.
They were mostly replaced with CO2, propane and butane all greenhouse gases.
Heh.

[buccaneer morgan]

well weiner is all that, but along with booker, they are ungrateful currs,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

-- the constant need to acclaim themselves as "smart", "Strong" or "accomplished", really leads one to think that the reality is otherwise--

They would join with homosexuals and have joint Gay/Lady Parts Pride parades, but for, well, you know, all the cat fights.

[henry]

wikileaks releasing another batch... 20,000 this time

[Lurker Susie]

Yikes

The Independent
The Independent – Verified account ‏@Independent

Police hunting man and woman after suitcase blast in Germany http://ind.pn/2abrUs9

[buccaneer morgan]

the first rule of fight club,

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/terry-mcauliffe-hillary-clinton-tpp-trade-226253

[Truthbetold5]

Iggy

Even funnier, the climate nuts are now trying to find a way to say the natural element 'Argon gas' is detrimental to the environment.

[cheerleader]

Today, Trump and Pence are doing a rally together in Scranton, then they're splitting up, with Pence going to rally Wisconsin and Trump going to rally in Ohio (Toledo).

Apparently there is a rumor going around that he asked Kasich to be VP, he corrected that today at his presser, and said it was a lie, he would have NEVER considered Kasich as his VP and certainly never asked him. He thinks the rumor started with Kasich.

[cheerleader]

He said today that Hillary is closer to Terry McAuliffe than she is to her husband.

[cheerleader]

Buccaneer

He thinks that Weiner would be party to everything Huma knows, and thus a security risk. Do you agree?

[Buckeye]

Yes, the pinkos demanded those ozone unfriendly CFCs be eliminated.
They were mostly replaced with CO2, propane and butane all greenhouse gases.
Heh.

Once touring a rail locomotive maintenance facility in China I walked past a big parts cleaning bin. Open top.

I immediately recognized the scent of the chemical degreaser they were using.

R12. Works like a charm.

The West is being played for chumps, and unfortunately, we are chumps.

[cheerleader]

Trump doesn't believe in AGW. He believes that the GW part is probably true, but not the A part.

[cheerleader]

She's changing all her talking points, now she is saying she is going to renegotiate trade deals, which Trump has been saying since day one. That's not really her field of expertise.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Ken Cuccinelli is closer to Terry McAwful than Hillary is to BillyJeff

[maryrose]

Huma and Weiner not to be trusted.
What is this new word change maker?
Does Hillary give out change in a bank or something.
Dems make up words to describe people that don't do anything and have no accomplishments.
Bill's speech a bust.
He doesn't want her to win so he makes it all about him.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Mid-Week in Pictures: Special DNC Edition

[cheerleader]

I think Hill and Bill are quite close politically, if in no other way.

[Appalled]

Why would any woman want to get close to William J? He's probably contagious.

[Jane]

Henry, is there a link to the new emails?

[maryrose]

Obama will campaign in October for Hillary.
Merde touch strikes again!

[henry]

Jane, no link yet.

[maryrose]

Obama"I have seen all kind of crazy things happen"
Yes like Obama being elected twice.