Checking The Fact Checkers

This exchange at the Trump/Clinton debate is one of many that caught people's attention:

CLINTON: Well, it's also fair to say, if we're going to talk about mayors, that under the current mayor, crime has continued to drop, including murders. So there is...

TRUMP: No, you're wrong. You're wrong.

CLINTON: No, I'm not.

TRUMP: Murders are up. All right. You check it.

The NY Times did check it:

Mr. Trump said that murders are up in New York City. Mrs. Clinton said they are down. Mrs. Clinton is correct. Crime statistics show that murders are down year on year, to 246 from 257. A spokesman for the New York Police Department weighed in on Twitter to say that murders and shootings are down significantly. “#NYC is on pace to have one of the safest years on record for crime.”

Fascinating, because elsewhere in the Times today I read this:

U.S. Murders Surged in 2015, F.B.I. Finds

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS and MONICA DAVEY  SEPT. 26, 2016

The country’s murder rate jumped more last year than it had in nearly half a century, newly released federal crime data showed, although the number of homicides remained far below the levels of the 1980s and ’90s.

And closer to home:

Los Angeles had 282 murders in 2015, compared with 262 in 2014, while New York had 352 murders last year, and about 333 in 2014, the report said.

So murders were higher in 2015 than in 2014. One might even say "murders are up" over that time period. But per the Times fact-checkers, that would be inappropriate, wrong, or simply not worth noting - it is the year-to-date figures we should be looking at, for reasons that elude me.

Compounding the mystery - the same CompStat report that shows murders are down by 4.3% year over year show they are up by 7.9% over two years. Another number for the waste basket!

Not that it matters to the Times, but Hillary did say that "under the current mayor, crime has continued to drop, including murders". DeBlasio took office on Jan 2, 2014. Murders dropped from 335 in 2013 to 328 in 2014, rose to 352 in 2015, and are now down a bit in 2016. If (IF!) the 2016 total is 4.3% less that the 352 of 2015 it will be 337.

So from a 335 level in 2013, murders will have been 328, 352 and 337 in the DeBlasio years. Is the Times sure that "down" is the right word to describe that? Of course they are, because it is the word Hillary used!

Comments

[jimmyk]

First!

[jimmyk]

It's the old saying, three kinds of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Hillary would know.

[derwill]

Richard Grenell ✔ @RichardGrenell
Hillary told America that Trump was Hitler. Trump showed a 100 million people tonight that Hillary lied about him.

37m

[derwill]

jimgeraghty ✔ @jimgeraghty
Hillary is winning the political debate, Trump is winning the television show.

2h

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

I told you about his sympathies in the iraq war, but this seems plausible,

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-26/america-our-side-al-nusra-commander-tells-german-press-us-arming-jihadists

[BR]

Rationing in Cuba still there since 1962. Milk (only children under 7 years). Eggs (*) (*) Only from September through December. What do the chickens and roosters do the rest of the year? I want to see a People's Milk Revolution in Cuba! Viva Elian! Cuba Libre!!!!

Anywhere else where there are tyrants, clean out the last remaining dreck on this planet.

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

the duntz's don't dissapoint, meaning they do,

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

ditto, br, and this idiotic truce will deliver much of the same to columbia, the farc arose in stark imitation of fidel's victory,

I think he took it too personally,

https://twitter.com/alimhaider/status/780601716571910146

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

I don't get the argument,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/26/us-anti-terror-law-puts-british-soldiers-at-risk-of-prosecution/

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

if islamic state is shorthand for aq, he's not far off:

https://twitter.com/cf_myers/status/780583470732943363

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

but it's still a pretty useless exercise, all told,

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

well good night all:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3808131/Hulk-Hogan-drops-1-6-million-beach-house-door-months-winning-140-million-Gawker-lawsuit.html

[Dave (in MA)]

If what I'm hearing on moonbat radio is any indication, the postgame progtard talking point is that Trump is so panicked from his whuppin' that he's going to pull out of the rest of the debates.

[the deplorable buccaneer morgan]

paging admiral ackbar, whose the next ringer on tap,

[daddy]

If I was Team Trump I would be busting ass tonight to find the Birther E-Mails and/or Articles that were sent out by the fired Clinton Campaign worker in 2007-2008 about where Obama was born.

Get the actual damn documents and post them so that we can see what the hell they actually said that caused her supposedly to be fired, and caused Solis whatever her name is to apologize to David Plouffe.

This is not brain surgery nor 'he said she said.' This is simple. Post them and let them speak for themselves.

Grrrrrrr.

[daddy]

This Fact Checking from Neil Cavuto is worth a listen, since Lester and Hillary tried to re-write History tonight: BOOM! Neil Cavuto Just Busted MSM – Plays 2003 Interview with Trump Against Iraq War (VIDEO)

[Implicitly biased jim]

Daddy,
The left doesn't even consider the truth to be inconvenient. They simply don't consider it at all.

[anonamom; formerly adorable, now deplorable]

Here's what Scott Adams says:

#Clinton won the debate on points but looked like a recently turned zombie learning to smile for the first time. #Trump was Trump. Tie.

I need Ig to come back and post his "HRC will never be president" again.

[anonamom; formerly adorable, now deplorable]

and this:

#Trump only had to solve one problem at the debate: Seem less scary. He did. Think about it.

and this too:

Because the only thing Trump needed to prove is that he could control his temperament. And he did.Scott Adams added,

[rse]

Given that lester holt clearly wanted to provide hillary the harridan cover and this is a change/anti-institution election, did he really help her or just highlight she is the status quo?

[RattlerGator]

I didn't watch any of the debate or the football game. Was so tired from helping my sister in Jax with hanging doors, etc., the kid simply needed some sleep once back in Tallahassee. Ultimately, I agree with Scott Adams because I *want* and need to agree with his assessment. I suspect Trump's strategy has never been to deliver a knockout in his first debate.

Just deal with her, and deal with his opposition (my sister was convinced Trump would blow up in this debate and go kinda crazy), and move on to the next debate. These events are going to regularize Trump as long as he doesn't take their bait.

As Don Surber has accurately said, this election is about Trump. He's leading in the minds of the nation, to hell with what the polls say. Be presidential, hold your own, don't go off the rails in some crazy rant -- you win.

[maryrose]

RG
I have to agree.
Gingrich said Hillary failed in the two goals she set out to achieve.
She didn't provide a concrete plan for America on the economy or fighting terrorism or safety.
She wasn't able to make Trump look like he couldn't be president.

[henry the deplorable]

Interesting debate reviews from the "conservatives" who don't like Trump and say he blew it. They all point out the places where Trump "should have KO'd Hilligula with point X." Thus convincing themselves by making Trump's argument for him. (I wonder how many on the left found it odd that Trump didn't clobber Hilligula on those same points). This fits the Adams "Master Persuader" approach* of getting your opponents to do your arguing for you -- here the #NeverTrump types.

* "Master Persuader" is a lot like horoscopes, you can read whatever you want into the framework post hoc. Yet the prediction is what matters here. If the above is correct Trump should gain in the support from Republicans in the polls. tbd.

[Porchlight]

I think boris said it well last night.

So Trump didn't self destruct and Clinton didn't have a grand mall on live TV.

In that sense it was a tie.

The MFM will score it for Hillary.

The public will still vote for Trump.

Last I checked, Hillary knocked it out of the park in the commissioned polls (CNN and PPP) and Trump is winning all the online (public, unscientific) polls going away.

Sounds like November 8 to me.

[Porchlight]

Henry, I was texting last night with my conservative BFF who was leaning nevertrump earlier in the year but is now a solid vote for him. She doesn't really like him and thinks Rubio would be 20 points ahead right now (lol), but is happy to vote for him to eliminate the witch.

She did exactly what you described - finished his arguments for him. She scored it a tie which she says equals a win for Trump.

[Porchlight]

Hi RG,

Agree with that assessment.

Don Surber is really terrific and has been right on the money this election. I highly recommend his book Trump The Press. Lots of fun. The link is at the top of his blog.

https://www.createspace.com/6264567

It's on Kindle too. He could use the support.

[Porchlight]

Heh - Trump and Holt after the debate. Lol.

https://vine.co/SuperDeluxe

Trump sure has a lot of funny and creative people in his corner. This was posted less than an hour after the debate ended.

[maryrose]

Fox just had a clip of the shoulder shake of Clinton to the tune of Taylor Swift's song " Shake it Off".
Hysterical.

[Porchlight]

That little shimmy really didn't help her, did it maryrose? Heh.

[Porchlight]

The weaponized autists at 4chan/pol/ calculate that Holt posed 15 questions only to Trump vs. the 2 he posed only to Hillary.

https://i.sli.mg/mCjGC9.png

[Deplorable Robin, aka Highland Pepe]

Trump insider on Reddit said that "Clinton + NAFTA" was the most googled thing from the debate. He calls that a win.

[Charge de Evil Doers]

She still has 30,000+ illegal emails hidden away. 🎈 Book?

[RattlerGator]

I'll also add this; I've been surprised by how many people have fallen for this line of thought expressed by Damon Linker:

https://twitter.com/DamonLinker/status/780605832111153152

"Am I right that not one word was spoken about abortion, same-sex marriage, or any other culture war issue? The relig right really is dead."

These are some of the same people, it seems to me, who have irrationally refused to support Donald Trump as the nominee. After this election cycle is over, that warrants serious discussion IMHO. My response to him was that this doesn't indicate the religious right is dead, it indicates that enough people have figured out how the leftwing used the issues of the religious right to set up internal splits within the GOP and create Charlie Brown moments in the presidential election.

The genius of Trump is that he is not going down that road in this election. There is a long, hard fight that has to be fought to re-center the country morally. First, we have to win back the Presidency *this* time and then begin to re-orient our national, state and local politicians to American principles.

[Porchlight]

Exactly right, RG.

First you have to win, and to do that you have to nimbly navigate their traps.

[Porchlight]

Another Reddit comment, sorry for language:

[–]sven855CHE 19 points 25 minutes ago

The MSM must be in a tailspin right about now. The post-debate polls mostly have Trump winning it even with all the hostile questions from the "unbiased" moderator.

One of the biggest cucks of them all, Michael Moore, said something very interesting last night. He said Trump's performance would appeal to the middle class, and I think he is right. Shillary went out there with a script. Trump went out there to be a real person. Shillary was like a robot (she may have been high as fuck on whatever medication they had her on) whereas Trump showed emotion and was personable.

[Buckeye]

Hillary's "smile" reminded me of the villain in a horror flick.

Doubt I am the only one who got that impression.

[maryrose]

Buckeye:
Her smile was ghoulish and smarmy.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

Morning!

It's hard for me to judge the appeal of Hillary's smile because I find her so repulsive.

However, I was struck by how she will simply LIE while smiling and never bat an eye.

Examples, off the top of my head:

Trump being "given" 14 million dollars from his father. (It was a loan of 1 million dollars which he repaid.)

Her stance on TPP, which was a blatant lie.

There were others, but I can't remember details, except that about 2/3 of the way through the thing I was overwhelmed with how she will lie about anything.

Basic point of debate for viewers was to see whether Trump was crazy and who they want to see on TV for the next 4 years.

I just don't see how most people, particularly men, want to see Hillary speaking to us from the Oval Office.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/12659

Sidney Blumenthal discusses the amount of gold Ghadaffi has.

I'd like to know who wound up with that gold.

[-peter]

I reluctantly agree with John Podhoretz that Trump was way under prepared

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

peter,

I think he was prepared on policy, which was supposed to be the point of the debate.

I don't think he was prepared for the blatant personal attacks, which he rebutted too tamely because she was trying to get him to go after her on a personal level. The upshot of that would have been "Oh, he's picking on a woman."

Two more debates. He will recalibrate, while she will be over-confident and use the same approach.

And I wouldn't hang my opinion on Podhoretz. He's no fan of Trump.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

http://nypost.com/2016/09/26/the-best-debate-takes-come-from-inside-the-bar/

How Trump won over a bar full of undecideds and democrats

[-peter]

I know, MM, but I was disappointed he missed that opening on cybersecurity. And several others. He did not bring his A game.

[James D]

Her smile was ghoulish and smarmy.

Everything about Hillary is ghoulish and smarmy, and that's the least bad thing to be said about her.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

peter,

Maybe not, but our job is to do like the democrats and act like he won, regardless.

One of the things that bothers me about so many of the GOP is that we critique every last thing our candidate does.

Why not talk about her smug attitude, her lies, Holt's chiming in even worse than Candy Crowley, HIS lie about stop and frisk?

This guy is not a politician. I didn't expect the Oxford debating society out of him. Podhoretz nit-picking is akin of me asking Podhoretz to build a skyscraper and then bitching at him because there were some flaws in the plumbing.

All Trump had to do was look presidential and not crazy. Hillary had to look likable. He won; she didn't.

[DebinNC]

I couldn't watch past the first 20 min., but reactions seem to indicate Trump survived pretty much intact. Good. After days of hoopla about Hillary's grueling, marathon debate prep causing her to cancel scheduled events, no surprise she knew her lines better than Trump who'd continued campaigning full-throttle. No knock-out punches by either apparently. She has no excuse now not to match the pace of Trump's campaign events schedule, which she's physically unable to do.

[maryrose]

I have to say as a reluctant Trump supporter I am vigorously defending his performance where others here seem disappointed.
I agree with MM and Porch.
He is tied in Minnesota the hotbed of liberalism.
In my opinion Hillary has shot her wad.
She threw everything but the kitchen sink at him and he parried it nicely not looking like a bully.
Now Hillary has nothing and he still has Benghazi, the Foundation, FBI immunity for her peeps and he can unload on BIll and Hillary enabling the destruction of women's reputations.
He has many arrows in his quiver.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

This is an account of a woman who met Trump a few months ago. It's very illuminating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnkeUtz-XbI

"This man wears a bullet proof vest for you."

[Janet]

Hillary's answer to everything was more government. More taxes, more government.

She will make businesses implement & obey her ideas.

I liked Trump's point "you've been there for 30 yrs, what have you done?"

That could be the answer to ANY of her ideas...why didn't you or the Dems. get that done already?

She was a Senator. The Dems had absolute power for 2 yrs after Obama was first elected. She was Secretary of State.
Why didn't she get her 'great ideas' done?

[Janet]

He did not bring his A game.

I agree.

[lurkersusie]

What the hell is she trying to hide?

Paul Joseph Watson on Twitter: "Another outrageous conspiracy theory. https://t.co/rO7tzlTgeC"

[DebinNC]

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/schedule

https://hillaryspeeches.com/scheduled-events/

Trump is vigorous, spontaneous, and enjoys people. Hillary is cold and unapproachable, sending surrogates in her place as much as possible.

[DebinNC]

I read that back-bump was HC's "mic pack". Presumably, Trump had one too unseen.

[maryrose]

In the next two debates you will see his A game.
Hillary will try to eliminate one of the debates.
If Trump finishes her off on October 9th I say that is it for the debates.

[Janet]

On This Day 2013 -

Is it "progressive" to give your freedoms away to elite busybodies? Let Harry Reid decide your healthcare? Let John Kerry lecture you on whether you can own a gun? Let Charlie Rangel demand more of YOUR money? Let Al Gore decide what type of car you can own?

Which side do you want to be on America? How do you want to live? ~
Serf losers & their bossy elites vs. YOU & FREEDOM

Hah!

I should update it with a Hillary example.

I just can't relate to anyone wanting to give politicians/government more money & power.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

Deb,

Her schedule is an eye-opener. Other than being in Raleigh today, all the rest are surrogates.

Who is going to be president if she's elected?

Bill? Huma? Michelle Obama?

Here's an interesting thought: If you sent some big shot GOP person like Paul Ryan around to campaign for Trump, the crowds would be smaller than if Trump were there. WAY smaller.

On the other hand, Hillary's surrogates draw larger crowds than Hillary herself.

There's a message there somewhere.

[maryrose]

Trump had a faulty microphone.
He said it worked in the practice run.
Hmmm...

[James D]

Janet @ 8:23

Hillary and Obama and the Dems DID get their "great ideas" done.

ObamaCare was one of them. So was pulling out of Iraq. So was Libya. So was the Iran deal. Etc etc etc.

They did precisely what they wanted to do, with the predictable horrific consequences, and now they want us to put Hillary in charge to compound the disasters she's already had a hand in creating.

[Buckeye]

He didn't bring his A game, but I don't think she made many new friends last night.

Wonder what each of their schedules are for the next 3-4 days?

Even though Trump appears to have a cold, he will stay busy.

Wonder if she will?

[maryrose]

MM
That is why Hillary is sending surrogates.
When people see her they dislike her more.
Trump has done fantastic retail politics and is connecting with the real voters.
That is why his poll numbers keep improving.
I have to believe not campaigning is an unforced error for Clinton.
Down the road when he passes her she will regret her leisure.

[Buckeye]

Guess I should have just waited:)

[maryrose]

Buckeye:
Totally agree. Very good points.

[DebinNC]

New developments in Charlotte cop shooting - Victim's wife got a restraining order against him in 2015 for threatening her with a gun. A convicted felon, he couldn't legally own a gun.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

Trump highlights of debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0-OP67e7Es

[Marlene]

Good Morning! I've been thinking about the debate and unless Hillary has a personality transplant,she will never connect with people on a personal level. She hasn't changed since making her baking cookies remark.

FYI...Hillary and Bernie will be at UNH tomorrow to campaign,because of the venue,I suppose they will talk about free college. Trump will be in NH on Thursday.

[DebinNC]

Post debate, Hillary has chosen to speak at Wake Tech Community College in Raleigh, NC. It's a 4-campus 2 yr. college with a combined 70,000 students enrolled. The Raleigh-Durham area also has several historically black colleges, making it one of BOzo's favorite photo-op stops. If HC can't draw a large, enthusiastic crowd today in stark contrast to those poor lobotomized looking Temple Univ kids, she's a goner.

[Old Lurker]

Simple choice between a vision of a one world, open borders, "we will take those profits and put them to better use", manipulated and controlled by self serving liars, cheating for the greater good and getting away with it because their world has no God vs being led by an imperfect man back in the direction that made this country great in the first place. Liberty or death as was said in history.

Clear as day.

Choose a path, and live or die with your choice. The choice will not come again in this lifetime.

[lurkersusie]

Don't mess with Rudy on stop and frisk

FOX & Friends
FOX & Friends – Verified account ‏@foxandfriends

Rudy Giuliani: Lester Holt was "dead wrong" last night
0:38
4:54 AM - 27 Sep 2016
365 RETWEETS550 LIKES

[James D]

It IS clear as day, OL.

It is absolutely beyond me how anyone can not see that.

I get that people who benefit from the cronyism and corruption and cheap labor from open borders, etc. would vote for Hillary, or any Dem with a pulse (or without one, I suppose).

But how can any person who doesn't directly benefit not see the truth?

[Porchlight]

It's frustrating because I keep imagining the responses I would have given to some of her lines.

"You were play acting with a fake Donald Trump and going to parties and I was out talking to real voters with real concerns. Real people that are struggling. You called them deplorable and irredeemable. "

[DebinNC]

Scott Adams: "Trump only had to solve one problem at the debate. Seem less scary. He did. Think about it."

[Porchlight]

Hillary is defending NH? She is supposed to be up big there.

Meanwhile she has abandoned Ohio and Florida. I suppose she will hit them in October with Obama, on our dime. We'll see how that goes over.

Here are 25 of the online polls Trump won.

http://m.imgur.com/a/CnPPd

[lurkersusie]

Interesting

Wolf Moon
Wolf Moon – ‏@WOLFM00N

@TheLastRefuge2 Who is the Cleaner, and why does he appear to hand off Hillary's papers to Lester Holt? #TheCleaner #Debates2016
Embedded image
Embedded image

[Porchlight]

MM posted this already, but it's worth a repost. This is the bar where Arnold Palmer was a regular. Salena Zito is a terrific reporter and her work in PA this cycle is very encouraging to me. It's like The Forgotten Man.

http://nypost.com/2016/09/26/the-best-debate-takes-come-from-inside-the-bar/

[DebinNC]

Bill Clinton's in two places in OH this week. Maybe he'll talk about how great OH was in the 1990s after he signed the Gingrich Gang's Contract With America.

[jimmyk on iPhone]

"unless Hillary has a personality transplant,she will never connect with people on a personal level."

I finally just caught that "Between the Ferns" interview of her. She was so awful--stiff and humorless. She smiled when the host slandered Trump, but otherwise looked like she had a hemorrhoid.

[Janet]

You are right, James D.

I just meant for the things like citizenship for illegals or tax laws....the things Dems use over & over to whip up their base.

I'd love Trump to throw out the address for donating money to the federal government. All the Progressives can ALREADY send in all of their money if they want to.

[Pagar a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

A. Get rid of the 2nd leftist on the stage every debate , no moderator ....
B .Hillary has been endorsed by the Communist Party of America. That tells you she is committed to destroy the economy, the nation's security and importing more invaders to increase terror in the USA.

Trump has the endorsement of police and immigration people.

I choose Trump.

[Miss Marple 2, Deplorable and Proud of it]

Donald Trump is risking everything, including his life, to run for president because he loves this country and wants to help.

Hillary Clinton is running because she is at risk if she doesn't, having accumulated vast wealth selling future access.

One of these people is displaying true leadership. One is simply desperate to keep her ill-gotten gains.

[DebinNC]

Lester Holt challenging Trump on stop and frisk

[RattlerGator]

I take issue with anyone saying he didn't bring his "A" game.

That was the point last night; meaning, that *was* bringing his "A" game. He held his fire and, by doing so, he has an extremely target-rich environment to exploit going forward.

That is an extremely smart strategy. Unloading on her would have allowed the shapeshifters in the media to obsess on the whole racist, ogre, bully nonsense. He apparently gave them NONE of that.

I call that (denying your opposition their preferred narrative-verifying talking points) bringing your A game. YMMV. This is Rush Limbaugh from yesterday: Remember, Trump knows it's not what he says that people will remember; it's how he makes them feel.

Yep, yep. The job last night was to show the nation he wasn't a bullying racist ogre. Done. And to show (contra my sister) that he wouldn't fly off the handle at provocations or having 15 direct and often confrontational questions directed at him while Hillary gets 2 direct softballs.

Done.

If you understand these debates as a series of events building toward an election, how is that not the very definition of bringing your A game?

[DebinNC]

You've convinced me, RG. Good job.

[-peter]

The Iran deal was another area where DT missed a huge opportunity to call BS on not just a bad deal but an existential threat

[jimmyk]

Agree with RG. I think I said here a couple of weeks ago that Trump's task was to show that all that "dangerous" "erratic" "Hitler" stuff the Dems have been throwing at him is insane, and from what I've seen he succeeded. Hillary's was to show that she's not a cold-blooded ice queen, and I don't think she succeeded.

[common man]

In what is almost assuredly not what he planned, Lester the Dolt helped Trump last evening. Virtually all the questions directed at Donald, and seven follow up questions but ZERO to the witch, and fact checking on the fly three times ( and being wrong 2 of the 3 times ). Donald has been running against the entrenched authority and status quo.

So Lester dutifully plays the media role of putting their big fat finger on the scale.

Trump handles him and Hillary, all the while showing poise, and some with and a little humor. Where was the guy I have been told in ad after ad is just too scary to become President. Hell he can take on two progs at once and hold his own. Think North Korea is going to buffalo him?

My worst fear was that he would allow the witch to get under his skin and reinforce the stereotype of him she has tried hard to sell ( and has failed to do so by nearly all the polls I am seeing ). Did not happen.

If the Presidency requires debate skills, I am hard pressed to think of where. Actually being a showman and a salesman are skills that are required and in that department he again showed he has way more that the witch.

[DebinNC]

Chicago last weekend - 8 dead, 43 wounded. Chicago yesterday 1 dead, 10 wounded What's Hillary's solution for getting stolen guns out of the hands of those already legally prohibited from having them, like Keith Scott in Charlotte?

[Porchlight]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3809204/Most-snap-polls-Trump-winning-debate-landslide.html

From the article:

CNN/ORC's snap poll, gave Clinton the win with 62 per cent to Trump's 27.

It was the biggest, and fastest, exercise conducted by an opinion polling firm.

The poll of 521 registered voters who watched the debate was a sample which the network warned leaned more Democratic than the average - starting the night with Clinton ahead 26 per cent among the sample.

And while it handed the victory overwhelmingly to Clinton, it was more mixed on whether the debate will make a difference, with 47 per cent saying it would not affect their vote, 34 per cent saying it moved them towards Clinton - and 18 per cent towards Trump.

26 points ahead at the start of the debate. So she began it 63-37 and ended it 62-27?

[clarice]

http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2016/09/trump-won-bigly.html?spref=tw

[clarice]

raise your hand if you'd ever go to Clinton's website for a fact check> add your name and addy--Madoff has some great investment ideas for you.

[common man]

Why would you start with a poll that far from reality to begin with?

Oh wait, its CNN.

The Clinton News Network.

Was that blithering idiot hipster Wolf announcing the results too?

[Porchlight]

I know I'm not accounting for undecideds above. Will double check when I get onto a real computer.

[Totally Deplorable Centralcal]

I thought the debate was a bore, only lasted an hour before hitting the off button. I don't think any needles moved much, except a smidge on the undecided side. The NeverTrumpers are all over Twitter this morning blathering away mostly to each other, as I think everyone else has tuned them out.

Wish it was November already.

[buccaneer morgan]

Really so she made her speak more selective, even within that poll?

[Captain Hate]

Hillary is defending NH? She is supposed to be up big there.

Maybe Kasich can campaign for her since he's such a team player.

[lurkersusie]

Another point of view

Mika Despondent Over Debate: Hillary ‘Amazing’ But Trump Will Win More Voters

http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/09/mika-despondent-over-debate-hillary-amazing-but-trump-will-win-more-voters/#more-185438

[buccaneer morgan]

Son corzione has a prospectus he's like them to look at as well.

[DebinNC]

Chicago Mayor Raum Emanuel concerned gun violence could spread from designated black elimination zones to areas of the city "he actually gives a sh** about". In the age of BOzo parody now reads like straight news.

[lurkersusie]

Funny

Paul Joseph Watson
Paul Joseph Watson – Verified account ‏@PrisonPlanet

😆😆😆 https://twitter.com/TheFunnyVine/s

[lurkersusie]

Trump vs Holt

https://t.co/5EnQxbk0KW

[common man]

OK I am calling bullshirt on one thing Mika said. She is not sitting around dining tables all around the country with ordinary Joes and Janes. If she is seated at something other than her own dining table or some fancy Midtown Manhattan restaurant, its most likely to be a another equally fancy restaurant in Aspen or San Fran or with some prog friends on their yacht off Bar Harbor.

But she is instinctively correct. People want their President to be someone they could sit and have a meal with. Hillary aint it.