Can't Make It Up

From the Times:

Vermont Wind Project Needs Support, So Company Offers to Pay Voters

By Katharine Q. Seelye   Oct. 12 2016

WINDHAM, Vt. — To many residents in this tiny town in southern Vermont, the last-minute offer of cash was a blatant attempt to buy their votes.

To the developer that offered the money, it was simply a sign of how attentively the company had been listening to voters’ concerns.

The company, Iberdrola Renewables, a Spanish energy developer, wants to build Vermont’s largest wind project on a private forest tract that spans Windham and the adjacent town of Grafton. The project would consist of 24 turbines, each nearly 500 feet tall, and generate 82.8 megawatts of power, enough to light 42,000 homes for a year if the wind kept blowing, though the houses could be in Connecticut or Massachusetts.

Residents of the two towns will vote Nov. 8 on whether to approve the project, which has pitted neighbor against neighbor. No one knows which way the vote will go.

So Wind and Graft have come together in Vermont. And I guess we do need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows on the upcoming vote.

The story is fine in an "all politics is local" sort of way. Left unmentioned - Vermont's ski industry, and hence the state, has a dire interest in climate change.

The dumbest comment presented comes from the anti-wind people. Since this is the Times, we don't whether they antis also have more cogent arguments, nor do we hear the silliest pro-arguments. With that caveat, roll the tape:

Critics of commercial wind power consider themselves every bit as environmentally conscious as the governor. They say he is doing more harm than good by promoting developments on the state’s ridgelines, among Vermont’s most important assets, where turbines, roadways and infrastructure are destroying habitats, increasing flood risks and scarring the landscape much the way mountaintop mining has scarred West Virginia. They also complain about noise, lower property values and blighted views.

...

All of this development, they say, is doing little to stave off climate change.

“These handful of turbines won’t do anything to offset the documented scampering increase in the mining and use of coal in India and China,” said Frank Seawright, the chairman of the Windham Selectboard and an opponent of the project.

Well, yeah, but that could be said of almost any individual project short of a beta test of a cold-fusion reactor.

Since you are no doubt wondering about the structure and legality of the cash offer:

Facing the possibility that voters here may reject the proposal, putting a damper on large-scale wind development in Vermont, Iberdrola last week put cash on the table for individual voters.

Many residents called the offer an attempt at undue influence, if not an outright bribe. But after a review, the state attorney general’s office said that the offer did not appear to violate state law.

Still, the individual payments — a total of $565,000 a year to 815 registered voters in both towns, or $14.1 million over 25 years — on top of millions more to the towns, suggest how much is at stake for the company. Iberdrola has been trying to persuade voters here for more than four years to approve the project, in a state that is actively seeking clean-energy development.

...

At the meeting, which drew more than 100 residents, the developer shared its new plan. It reduced the number of turbines to 24 from 28 and increased the money paid to Windham to $1 million from $715,000 a year for the 25 years. The payments would cut property taxes in half and provide $150,000 a year for charities, fire departments and educational scholarships.

The company said it would also set aside $350,000 each year for direct payments to Windham’s 311 registered voters — $1,125 apiece annually, or $28,135 over 25 years, which a voter could accept or not.

Now, if you are thinking that the payments are legal because they are contingent on the outcome of the vote and not the specific vote of any one prospective recipient, pat yourself on the back:

Opponents were outraged at the payments, perceiving them as an attempt to buy votes, and complained to state officials.

But Michael O. Duane, senior assistant attorney general, said the payments did not violate state law. The proposal “doesn’t say that the funds go only to those people who signed a sworn statement that they had voted for it,” he said.

Now, you might be thinking that some form of compensation to the locals is appropriate. After all, the annoyance of construction, noise and impaired views will be local although the power benefits will be regional (or global!).

On the other hand, you might be thinking that the reduction in property taxes is the appropriate form of compensation. On the third hand, the article tells us that 60% of property taxes (and hence, the tax relief) goes to second-home owners in the two towns, who aren't worth bribing because they don't vote locally.

And finally (finally!) if a "local" signs up for the twenty-five year annuity and then retires to Florida in two years, why the ongoing compensation? Hmm, maybe it reflects impairment of home resale value?

Well. I'm sure there are Deep Themes here about NIMBY and people's distrust of the system and a whole "Where's Mine" attitude in the populace, different facets of which are ably personified by both our Presidential candidates. But Wind and Graft captures it.

Comments

[Sue]

Can't make it up? Why not?

[Jim Eagle]

How appropriately named: WINDham and GRAFTon.

You're right TM, you CAN"T make this up. LOL.

[Sue]

Oh wow. I didn't catch the play on the town's names. That's funny.

[maryrose]

I bet it passes easily.
Bribery is a last ditch tactic that usually works.
Grafting is a beautiful town.
Too bad it cannot remain pristine.
Every piece of land must be developed is the new mantra.

[Jim Eagle]

maryrose,

Our favorite town in Vermont is Woodstock. But that part of southeastern Vermont is full of "tidy" towns as they call them in Ireland:)

[henry]

They just want to get rid of all those birds pooping on Prius door handles.

[Mahon]

Another relevant question is how much public subsidy is going into the construction and operation of the wind farm. Is Iberdrola effectively paying off the residents with Vermont or US taxpayers' money? And if so, what kind of political cronyism is involved?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb2sAjxDQcQ

Trump rally, W#est Palm Beach, Florida, live stream.

Set to go live at 12:00 Eastern.

As always, there will be a delay before Trump speaks while minor speakers take the stage. I think Giuliani is with him, but don't know if he will speak.

[buccaneer morgan]

are they represented by dewey cheatham and howe?

[maryrose]

JIB
We love Woodstock(I have Woodstock) and always stop there when we travel through Vermont.
We also enjoy NewFane and Craftsbury.

[maryrose]

Gould be Woodstock cap.

[clarice b. for Brainiac]

Reposting from tail end of last post :
FWIW (I'm outa here for a few hours):Anonymous on what He is bringing to the table
" what's coming: ""All 33k deleted Emails are going to be released by November 1st. probably in 4 – 5 sets. these emails are going to be the complete undoing of the Democratic Party. We are purposely holding them back so they cannot have time to replace Hillary.
Also we are not Russian. despite what CNN tells you. we already have inside info that Obama is literally going to start a war with Russia to cover up the crimes that are in the emails. we are talking Obama and Hillary being held for Treason and ending up with the same Terrorist they have influenced – by this time next year. ending up with the same Terrorists.
The emails coming through the next two weeks. and there are 6 videos being released. one that documents Hillary slandering and being racist against a Female African American. the amount of hatred seen on her face for their community will be worse than 100 TrumpTapes.
Also there is documents and videos coming this week. that will destitute any faith left in the Democratic Party. specifically with HRC’s campaign. We have them committing felonies on camera. the kind that make the voter fraud that we have released. look like a JWalking ticket (bribes and threats) to control the Media and Election officials.
The information will be released we rely on everyone to help spread the truth.
We have already delivered roughly 10k of the Podesta emails. this is 1.120th of the content we will be releasing and we are saving the best for last.
Wait a week and then look at the polls you guys are basing your arrogance upon. we also have information 911 0 polls that are posted from right before the debate – today have been sampled to show favor to HRC and create a false drop for Donald.
This election is closer than any of you know and Donald is actually leading Hillary in the only un-biased poll with the largest sample group.
It’s painfully obvious that Clintons campaign is hurting. the only negative arguments and narratives they constantly push are the TrumpTapes. which he was prepared for and immediately appeared to hurt him. but actually has helped him. since it opened up his ability to use actual rape victims.
They also are clinging to the taxes. which is 100% legal and Donald will release them soon and HRC can no longer attack him on that when he does (he is purposely holding them off to show that his last 5+ years will make all of HRC’s bashing look horrible. since they show him paying much more than she does)
HRC is attempting to pay I force a woman to lie that Trump sexually assaulted her.
HRC is trying to Blackmail a member of the Apprentice staff for a Tape that does not exist. but she played right into our hands and we have video and audio of members of her campaign staff threatening I trying to Bribe the staff Member (no tape exists. we literally played her)
HRC is done. you can claim victory all you want. but the facts will show on November

[Jim Eagle]

Anonymous is like DuDa, all mirrors, no smoke.

[Ben]

I hope you're right clarice. I really am pulling for the fulfillment of your dark bucket list.

"Farewell and adieu..."

[buccaneer morgan]

well they not north korea, hacked sony, but it's more of an open source platform,

[rse]

I noticed clarice linked to a report involving the law firm Simpson Thatcher on the previous thread and the clinton foundation. Anyone unfamiliar with the firm it is one of the silkiest of the silk stocking law firms.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Hmmm, RSBN seems to have a camera at a meeting.

Think I will see what's going on.

[The answer, my friend....]

Intermittentcy and low power density are the so far insoluble problems of wind power. Energy storage would solve the first, but has been intractable since we first experimented with electric cars, and that's a long time. So, wind needs almost full back up with fossil fuel or nuclear power plants. So where's the benefit.

Also, see South Australia, where overpenetrance of the grid by wind power was one of the main causes of the recent blackout. Some predict a similar occurrence for Great Britain this winter, but I don't think they are so overpenetrated there.

[MAM]

I was born and raised in Southern, Vermont - about 10 minutes from Grafton and 30 minutes from Woodstock. It's so beautiful, especially this time of year. I got married in my hometown 40 years ago last Sunday (10/9) so that all of our out-of-town guests could see my gorgeous Green Mountain state!! Today, Vermont is so different from when I was young - too many flatlanders invaded and stayed :-(

[We few, we happy few deplorables, Beester]

Buccaneers: Nyuk. Nyuk. Nyuk.

[Sue]

Another relevant question is how much public subsidy is going into the construction and operation of the wind farm. Is Iberdrola effectively paying off the residents with Vermont or US taxpayers' money? And if so, what kind of political cronyism is involved?

Posted by: Mahon | October 13, 2016 at 11:02 AM

I bet the NYTs didn't tell us.

[Ben]

We needed a Guy Fawkes and though clueless and too shallow to comprehend...

TRUMP! is the Man.

[James D]

Is Iberdrola effectively paying off the residents with Vermont or US taxpayers' money? And if so, what kind of political cronyism is involved?

Of course they're paying off voters with taxpayer money.

[Truthbetold5]

The real reason Donald Trump is lashing out at Paul Ryan

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/10/13/13252458/trump-ryan-feud-trump-media

[Ben]

After all, isn't a Pyro maniac largely a sexual deviant?

[lurkersusie]

CBS local per gateway pundit

Nearly 100,000 Pennsylvania Democrats have switched to Republican since the beginning of the year.

What’s more: The Pennsylvania Republican party says more than 240-thousand new voters have joined the party since last November.

The state Republican party says that the surge in Republican registrations is nearly twice the number of newly registered Republicans compared to both the 2008 and 2012 numbers combined.

The party says the new numbers come from the Pennsylvania Department of State which shows that 97,607 Democrats have actually switched to Republican.

[rse]

Ford and Prudential Foundations sponsoring this aspen summit next week. https://www.aspeninstitute.org/programs/financial-security-program/2016-economic-security-summit/

Tom Perez from labor, demos, quite the crew.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Alternate live stream since RSBN seems to be messed up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t40u13GZVc

[James D]

rse, one of my co-workers went to the big SalesForce.com "Dream Force' conference last week.

According to the schedule she brought back, the keynote speech for the last day was called:

"Equality Summit: Road to Equality Through Business, Sports and Government"

The speakers included SalesForce's "Chief Equality Officer", Billie Jean King, and Congressman John Lewis.

[jimmyk]

Of course they're paying off voters with taxpayer money.

It does make a big difference if it's VT or US taxpayer $. If VT then it's pretty much their business and their problem. If US, as I suspect it is, then it's our problem. My suspicion is that these companies are using federal $ to buy VT votes. Multiply that by 50 (since state voters will usually be happy to get their piece of federal money) and we have a big problem.

[Truthbetold5]

Forget the polls.

Trump is playing to lose!

[Janet 1]

Perhaps they are using money from broke Spain & their citizens?

Iberdrola Renewables, a Spanish energy developer,

Maybe let the citizens of Spain know what is going on.
Why are you having to subsidize Americans in Vermont?

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

I visited Grafton once years ago. What a beautiful, charming, and quaint little town it was then. I fell in love with it and actually briefly contemplated what it might be like to retire there, but then I decided they get too much snow. Ended up retiring in McCall, Idaho, where we got 12 feet total snowfall last winter. Hah.

[Barbara]

Put this on the wrong thread. :)

Remember this line from "Patton"?

L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!

This was a French military maxim that Frederick the Great adopted. Napoleon used it as well.

L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!

Audacity, audacity, always audacity!

"Basically it means never give up the initiative to your enemy. An audacious and bold commander is preferable to a plodding one."

One thing that people can say about Trump: he certainly has audacity.

And he has tactics, as well. For that Trump can look to one of my fav military generals, Wellington. The Iron Duke knew the battlefield. He used it to his advantage and was ready for just about anything. I have a theory about how Wellington suckered Napoleon right into the spot he wanted him. I've never seen it confirmed, but everything I've read about the man and his battles both in the Peninsula and at Waterloo lead me to that conclusion.

L'audace!

[RattlerGator]

I haven't heard Sue express "confidence in our doom," just a cautionary note not to dismiss the polls, whatever they may be saying.

Posted by: jimmyk | October 13, 2016 at 11:21 AM

Here's what I *haven't* heard, jimmyk. I haven't heard Sue substantively addressing the fact of a poll showing 25% of the needed Democrat total for victory voting at unprecedented levels beyond what even Barack Obama historically achieved.

Seems rather important to me. And it's a problem in every one of those Real Clear Politics polls she seems to have some historic faith in. You know, those polls that now seem rather clearly an incentivized via dollars tool for the establishment?

Now, maybe Sue addressed that rather huge and glaring discrepancy somewhere in these threads and I missed it. But it seems she's rather conveniently sticking (in this historic year unlike any of my lifetime) with a conventional assessment in a quite unconventional year.

That is odd as hell to me.

I don't fault her for it, mind you. I'm just commenting upon it, just as she is commenting upon the shaping and handling pablum they are offering us. She clearly chooses to give it some dap. Hey, whatever floats her boat. You know what I mean?

But, I rather proudly refuse to give them that sort of dap any longer.

[jimmyk]

We've been going to Vermont nearly every Christmas the last few years the wife's family, either to Woodstock (Woodstock Inn), or Manchester (Equinox), both very nice. There seems to be a preference for the Equinox, maybe because it's a bit closer, or because there's a bit more to do within the property or walking distance.

[jimmyk]

Maybe let the citizens of Spain know what is going on.

If it's Spain's money, in the end it will effectively be Germany's.

[RattlerGator]

By the way, I have to head out but I wanted to share a story I saw in the Jacksonville paper today of a particularly Floridian sit-chee-a-shun; look at the size of this big ass water moccasin:

http://jacksonville.com/news/2016-10-12/giant-water-moccasin-nabbed-st-johns-county

Dayyyyuuuummmmm !!!

[glasater]

I'm giving RSE several 'plugs' on twitter and a few people have checked in with her site.
One fellow complained that Invisible Serf's Collar was having to make him think! :-)

There's quite an element of parents concerned about Common Core in the twitter forum.

[Jim Eagle]

The Donald is en fuego!

[Appalled (Alt-Moderate)]

RG:

I find it wisest not to rule anything out in this election year. But what's your reaction going to be if the election pretty much follows the polls?

There's been fraud!!! or

Guess I was wrong.

Seeing from the now dead thread, some folks are going for door #1. In that spirit, I will happily cast my vote for Marco Rubio for President on November 8.

[daddy]

When does the baseball game start?

[J. Fred Muggs]

Another pet joke. Trigger warning: Graphic sex scene.

Her dog was in heat, but she agreed to look after her neighbor's male dog while the neighbor was on vacation. She had a large house and she believed that she could keep the two dogs apart. However, as she was drifting off to sleep, she heard awful howling sounds. She rushed downstairs and found the dogs locked together and unable to disengage, as frequently happens when dogs mate.

Unable to separate them, and perplexed as to what to do next, and although it was very late at night, she called her vet, who answered in a very grumpy voice. After she explained the problem to him, the vet said, "Hang up the phone and place it down alongside the dogs. I will then call you back and the noise of the ringing will make the male lose his erection and he will be able to withdraw."

"Do you think that will work?" she asked.
"Just worked for me," he replied

[rse]

Thanks glasatar. Hopefully I will be back to writing soon. I actually just got back from running an errand and for the first time in at least 10 days I don't feel like I have been slugged.

Also lots of deceitful narratives out there, especially that Catholic School education paper Pioneer and APP put out yesterday. It's a whopper.

[Ben]

This is baseball, daddy-o.

"Who's on first?"

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

LAWSUIT!!!!

He has proof that accusations are lies.

[buccaneer morgan]

whatever appalled, actually what happened in 2012 against the tea party, was greater than mere fraud,

[Jim Eagle]

rse,

What is so deceitful about the Pioneer study?

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=29618

[Truthbetold5]

Marc Grossman was caught on FBI wiretap bragging about publishing stories under a reporters byline (Judith Miller?) at the New York Times

[Barry Dauphin]

The land of wind bag Bernie Sanders!

[boatbuilder]

In 20 years the lefties will be making "realist" movies with the downtrodden protagonists featured against a backdrop of rusted-out windmills blotting the landscape.

And they will blame "capitalists" and what were once known as "Republicans" for the "rape" of the landscape.

Count on it.

[We few, we happy few deplorables, Beester]

Trump, yes, the fire of righteous anger. He is a leader who speaks truth to power putting at risk everyone he loves.

[rse]

Beyond mining my book, not citing me, and then using my footnotes?

It mischaracterizes the nature of the Common Core and then uses the same change the child template that bill and hill piloted in Arkansas in the mid-80s and then puts it in language only a genuine expert would catch. The idea has been to get parents all worked up so they demand that money follow the child and then the parents do not appreciate the nature of the shift that the Catholic schools have had to agree to to be eligible for that money.

It uses the rhetoric of the Catholic ed you remember, but it is every bit as inductive as anything the Center for Advanced Studies in the Behavioral Sciences has hatched for use anywhere.

[JeanD]

from the prior thread, MM said: I am also disturbed by the administration's repeated attempts to tag Russia with interfering in the election. It seems contrived to me and ramped up out of nowhere, with no real evidence except that they say so.

I agree with this but wonder what else they could do that wouldn't shine a light on their cyber incompetence?

If they admit that a bunch of unknown hackers operating under the umbrella of wikileaks, or DC leaks, or anonymous, or 4chan can easily grab all of this data, aren't they really just screaming out loud that every possible foreign actor has all of HRC's communications as SoS?

In that scenario, aren't they better served by making the big, bad Putin the only villain in the story?

[rse]

I actually got a phone call two days ago that one of the co-authors was giving presentations ripping off my work to appear authoritative and then misleading the audience with the rest of the story. The outraged audience member who had read my book and knew where what she was hearing came from got it all on video.

[jimmyk]

Has this been reported in the national MSM?

http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/10/13/two-arrested-pointing-gun-trump-supporters-children/

One can only imagine if such a thing happened to Hillary supporters.

[daddy]

ON TOPIC!!!

wants to build Vermont’s largest wind project on a private forest tract that spans Windham and the adjacent town of Grafton. The project would consist of 24 turbines, each nearly 500 feet tall, and generate 82.8 megawatts of power, enough to light 42,000 homes

So 24 Turbines to power 42,000 homes.

Up here we cancelled the plan to add "11 new turbines would add just over 20 megawatts of capacity to the Railbelt region from Fairbanks to Seward, or enough to power roughly 7,000 additional homes,

Plans to add turbines to the Fire Island Wind project were suspended this month when the project ran into a hitch: No one wants to buy the power.

...Alaska's Golden Valley Electric Association said that by the time it received the power, it would be at about double the original cost and not economical...

"We support renewables, but do we support renewables that raise (the) cost to our members? No," Wright said in an interview this week.

...wind is a variable resource. The variation requires additional generation at all times to maintain consistent power throughout the system. That fluctuation can sometimes mean additional costs for the utilities that have to generate more power when wind power dips.

Its a scam, and an expensive scam at that.

[common man]

As far as I can see Anonymous has little credibility telling. Show me, not tell me and it would be quite prudent to do it sooner than later.

[Jim Eagle]

rse,

Well, I have downloaded the study and will read tonight. As you may know, I have been involved in Catholic Education for the last 10 years at the school board level. I have read Professor Esolen for years. He is a main contributor to Magnificat monthly missal and magazine.

Knowing him and his writings I find it hard to believe that they "ripped" off your book with citation. If so, I would be happy to write them to support your contentions.

[Jim Eagle]

...without citation....

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

JeanD,

I see your point, but 4chan doesn't have nukes.

[Porchlight]

But what's your reaction going to be if the election pretty much follows the polls?

Who cares?

The only reason to bring this topic up NOW is to demoralize oneself or others.

What if this were a frequent conversation on the battlefield:

"What happens if we get blown to bits? What's our reaction going to be? Better get ready to get blown to bits, dude."

That's a reasonable topic, correct? I mean, it's only conversation, man. It's only like facing reality and stuff.

[daddy]

Trump: "Our Campaign is an Existential Threat to the Political Establishment."

In all the many times I hear the phrase "Existential Threat" tossed around by the Media and Politicians and Climate-Gaters, etc, this is one of the very few times I am aware of someone using the term correctly.

[Sur]

Really Porch? That was my intention? First friend I've actually lost in this election.

[Sue]

That was me. Typos my name.

[rse]

The only place anyone had put together that information was in my book and it was not just one or two footnotes.

The catholic schools need public money to survive and lots of financial interests want to use the pay for success model. Perhaps your Professor Esolen falsely believes that all of his co-authors are in fact education experts which is not true.

This all tracks to the Pay for Success model where private or non-profits cash in as the designated providers and the terms they accept to be 'qualified' are out of sight.

I noticed Professor Esolen was also cited in a previous APP/Pioneer false narrative from May 2012 called "Controlling Education From the Top: Why Common Core is Bad for America".

This all ties to a similar attempt last year out in Texas that was tied to trying to shut me up and get support for ESAs there.

I actually have some cites up on this in the comments from yesterday and today. I also have alerted my IP attorney. This also ties to an initiative at the Kennedy School of Government I have been tracking. The same one where Jeb! is a visiting prof this semester.

[Porchlight]

Sue, it's terribly demoralizing. If you didn't know that when you started the conversation, wasn't it clear from the responses?

I just don't get why we are continuing down this path among friends when emotions are riding so high.

[Sue]

I'm not.

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

The way I look at it is that we now have incontrovertible proof that the Left has infiltrated and corrupted every corner of our government, including the once vaunted FBI. They've infiltrated and corrupted most of the institutions in our society, and those they haven't completely infiltrated and corrupted, such as the Catholic Church, we now have incontrovertible proof that they are attempting to do so.

Thus, it is not beyond the realm of reason that they have infiltrated and corrupted the polls as well. We just don't have incontrovertible proof of that yet. So allowing for the fact that the polls may still be honest, even the honest ones are using 2012 turnout as their models. If this were an election between Jeb and Hillary, or Rubio and Hillary, those models would probably be working just fine. But this isn't a normal election, and while the polls may still be capturing the ways in which this isn't a normal election, they may also be not.

Which is why I think it is best to just ignore them. Either they've been corrupted and they're cooked; or their models are off; or they're right and Hillary will win by 9 points. Whatever happens somebody will get to say I told you so, so there is that.

[Porchlight]

Okay. Sue. I'm sorry. I was responding to Appalled in my 1:59.

[rse]

It's also the same crew who put out a false narrative about how Big Data works that conveniently has it still quietly working precisely as the Harvard and MIT profs want it to. Plus the underwriters who specialize in the pay for success model are hq'd in boston.

Your reaction of knowing and respecting this professor would make parents far more willing to sign on to the veracity of the entire narrative. This is not something Professor Esolen could be aware of in all likelihood. It's like expecting trump to recognize he is currently being fed a false narrative surrounding School Choice. How could he with a background in casinos and real estate development.

He defers to the think tanks and they have a different agenda.

[maryrose]

RSE:
What exactly are the people you mentioned asking the Catholic schools to do?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Here, everyone listen to this and get your courage up!

We need to concentrate on saving the damn country!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t40u13GZVc

[Sue]

No you weren't. Not entirely. At least own it.

[Rocco]

I have family from Newport (Derby Line) but I really love Southern Vermont. Without doubt the Jacksonville, Wilmington, areas just might be my favorite places on earth!

[jimmyk]

Porch, even assuming Sue's posts are demoralizing, there is a big difference between that and demoralizing troops in battle, which can affect the outcome. So I think that's a bit harsh.

My own view about the polls is somewhere in between yours and Sue's, as I've said, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. There's enough crazy stuff going on this election to take the polls with a bigger grain of salt than usual, and even besides that it is not unusual for there to be "late movement" in polling, so as I say, it's up for grabs, at the very least.

[lurkersusie]

Rasmussen

Black likely voters

Oct 3. 9%
Oct. 6. 12%
Oct. 7. 13%
Oct. 10. 14%
Oct. 11. 19%

[Matt - deplore me if you must]

LA Times is keeping up with the Trump potty mouth on the front page while the WaPo is going full Stalin running a story on Trump groping multiple women. How much do you want to bet they are Hillary supporters from way back?

The level of hysteria on Facebook is amazing. It's really funny because working down in the trenches on mental health and homelessness now, most of the people I work with are conservative.

They understand charity and compassion and real acts of faith better than any of the Pharisees in Washington ever would.

To be characterized as low information xenophobic racists is a hoot because we work with everybody, including the addicted, LBGT individuals, and all races and creeds.

[MAM]

Bernie is not a native Vermonter. Two of my brothers are involved in VT politics and have known Bernie for years and years. One story about Bernie is that as a young man, he was thrown out of a commune because he did not do his fair share of the work!! He had other housing problems, and a colorful personal life. He squeaked out a win for mayor of Burlington, and the rest is history. One of my brothers (who is up close and in the know), says that Bernie does not treat his staff well and that he is quick-tempered and rude.

[Jim Eagle]

rse,

I'll read the paper and make my own mind up. Its the Jesuit education in me. If you are in fact agreived by their actions and purloining your work, you should write them and complain. Or like you said get your IP lawyer on it. First time I have run into the Pioneer Institute so I have no idea what their agenda is and what their priorities are (i.e. education, promoting Catholic culture, etc.).

But I am open to all ideas and arguments.

maryrose asks you a pretty good question. I'd like to know also.

[maryrose]

Appalled
Rubio is not the Republican candidate for president.
I now believe that ultimately you will vote for Hillary.
Good luck with that.
You have a pessimistic view and if Hillary wins we are doomed.
So I prefer to err on the side of optimism.
My Trump sign in front of my house was not stolen last night. I consider that a positive sign.
Also I think prayer is working

If you have ever taken Statistics you know how to skew results.
People are not the dumb bunnies Hil's team hope they will be.

[JeanD]

do we need to censure daddy for being ON TOPIC? ;)

MM, my point was simply that this gang does the most expedient, ass-covering move every time, and always without regard for the larger consequences.

I didn't take Sue's point to mean that she has given up. It seemed more like a reminder that GUS doesn't get to break out the S**TCANNED chant until it actually happens.

[DebinNC]

Vermont's two U.S. senators - Patrick Leahy and Bernie Sanders. Not one dime would I spend there, even though I'm sure it's beautiful. Ditto ever buying Ben and Jerry's ice cream and, as much as possible, anything else from a company headquartered there.

[rse]

The posts I had written that described that template and how it was different from a fact-oriented, body of knowledge curriculum and fit the cybernetic vision were the ones the search engine overlord insisted I delete this summer in order for them to remove the hacked site warning. Experts said there was no corrupted code in any of those posts.

I put together the template following up on everyone who had tried to steal from me in Texas and who they had in common. Awfully coincidental.

I am just so tired of all the lies and this is not what you want for Frederick--role playing historical characters.

I am going to think happy thoughts. Just got flowers delivered for my anniversary. Now if I can just keep the cats from trying to eat them.

[We few, we happy few deplorables, Beester]

Yes MM! This was just posted on (LOR) Reddit:

Sons of Gondor! Sons of Rohan! I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends, and break all bonds of fellowship; but it is not this day!
An hour of wolves, and shattered shields, when the Age of Men comes crashing down; but it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!

Coraggio!

[henry]

One of the accusers is a secretary at the Clintoon Foundation. (Jessica Leeds).

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

And I'm with Miss M. in wondering what in hell is going on with Russia. It's bizarre. You read the "news" reports and you ask yourself: Should I be concerned about this? But nobody else seems concerned, and our media just takes dictation on what the Obama Administration tells them anyway, so it's impossible to know what to think.

[Porchlight]

Sue,

In the last thread it seemed to me that you came in wanting to talk about the bad polls and you stuck to the subject even though people were upset and depressed about it. As you correctly pointed out, no one but JOM regulars would have been reading that deep into the comments.

In this thread I was responding directly to Appalled. I was certainly also thinking of the last thread, which I had just finished checking.

It's sad to me. I don't know why people would focus on that before an election except to poke holes in others' balloons. Maybe you believe you're helping people acknowledge reality ahead of time. It only has one effect, though, and has only ever had that effect as long as I've been reading JOM, and that is demoralization. I do remember you saying the same thing in 2008 and 2012, and it depressed me then, too. And you were right, then, too, which I've acknowledged.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb2sAjxDQcQ

RSBN is interviewing crowd outside in Cincinnati.

It's hilarious! So far, mad at the media, mad at Paul Ryan, mad at Clintons.

Fun listening to regular people!

[rse]

I see I left out that the posts were all from last February.

Explaining that template is what the next book is about so I will explain it but not here and now.

[Highland Pepe, aka Robin of the Deplorables]

MM,

Rush was running live clips from that rally and interjecting with, "he's right! He's absolutely right!" Trump is going after the cozy incestuous relationships of the DC crowd with the finance crowd and the media crowd and he donor crowd. It was a tour de force and Rush could only reiterate the clearly drawn map of the "kingdom" with the Clintons sitting nice and tidy at the top.

[Truthbetold5]

God forbid anyone demoralize you with the facts, Porch

[Matt - deplore me if you must]

We have just learned that the Leftists are doing their best to infiltrate and neutralize conservative Catholicism. That would especially involve educating children. They have succeeded in the universities. They are in the public high schools. Now they need to get to the young ones to program them.

The one thing that stood within the East Bloc against the Soviet Empire in the early 1980's was the Catholic Church in Poland. I believe that as issues such as physician assisted suicide and late term abortion impinge ever more on faith based organizations that the bishops may finally wake up to the evil within the Democratic Party.

Wendy's announced that the company would make available 6,000 self service kiosks to their franchisees. The other fast food companies will follow. Seattle has already lost quite a number of small restaurants, coffee houses, etc because of their minimum wage law.

The only way that you can thriving economy is through capitalism. And yet the Left Wing of the Democratic Party is now radically Marxist.

Unfortunately the oligarchy at the Capitol are spineless in every way. My fear is now of a monkey wrench program if Trump should win.

We need solutions and it is virtually guaranteed that the Leftists in power will make the Clinton exit from the White House look like nothing. I think whole departments will be sabotaged.

the mad dog mentality is truly frightening.

[Captain Hate on the iPhone]

Greetings from Phoenix airport. I'm being subjected to blatant propaganda from Cankles News Network.

[common man]

I just read the response from Sue to TBT. Remind me never to get on Sue's bad side. Well that, and for good measure I second that emotion...

[Highland Pepe, aka Robin of the Deplorables]

The lighting of the beacon fires is my favorite scene in the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

I have never been a religious person, I was not raised that way, but I've always believed in God. How else to explain this beautiful world? For the first time in my life, I feel like I am witnessing the hand of God at work. I feel at peace. Whatever happens on Nov. 8th, we are a citizenry awake to the transgressions of those who would imprison us through ignorance. We may not win this battle, but we are now at war. No one will return to their homes and stop paying attention.

[DebinNC]

Fwiw, Sue didn't demoralize me. I'm a hope for the best but prepare for the worst type.

[Porchlight]

Porch, even assuming Sue's posts are demoralizing, there is a big difference between that and demoralizing troops in battle, which can affect the outcome. So I think that's a bit harsh.

Demoralization absolutely affects the outcome in an election. When the MSM blazes DOOM poll headlines across the screens 24/7, when they constantly insist that a candidate's campaign is in shambles, that the candidate is on the verge of dropping out, that the ground game is nonexistent, etc., that is absolutely an intent to demoralize so that the candidate's supporters will give up and not make the effort to donate, GOTV and vote. And so that anyone wavering will decide not to go with the perceived loser.

It works, too. That's why they do it.

I know what the polls say. We all know what they say. I look at RCP daily and compare it to 2008 and 2012.

[jimmyk]

We may not win this battle, but we are now at war. No one will return to their homes and stop paying attention.

I am reminded of 1976, when my leftist brother argued that a Reagan election could be helpful in hastening the revolution. Perhaps that's the consolation if God forbid Hillary were to win. Perhaps not an armed insurrection but at least a real political revolution.

[Truthbetold5]

Then get to your safe space and hide, Porch