A cartoon frog tied to anti-Semitism and racism that has become an unofficial mascot of the alt-right has been added to the Anti-Defamation League’s list of hate symbols, joining the ranks of the swastika and the Confederate battle flag, the group said on Tuesday.
OK, has this election finally jumped the shark? And (dare I ask) is the shark in question also a hate symbol?
I probably should not take for granted that "everyone" has followed the politics of this. The short version: Another time waster, but more fun than real estate tax loss rules. The long version:
In mid-September Team Trump tweeted "The Deplorables", whose cast included Pepe. Hillary pounced and denounced the alt-right symbolism. There was a "Wait, what" interlude while folks with one foot (or more!) still in Realityville opined on whether this sort of cultural appropriation and the acceptance thereof made any sense whatsoever.
But with Trump on one side and Hillary on the other the next steps were inevitable. The Anti Defamation League has finally joined in on - wait for it - Hillary's side, declaring Pepe to be a symbol of hate, as described in the Times story above.
But let's have a bit of context. The Times explains that Pepe joins the
ranks of the swastika and the Confederate battle flag.
The Confederate flag still finds supporters but the swastika is unambiguous, at least in the West.
But who else is in those ranks? Well, Pepe has also joined "12", "13", "14" and "100%" on the ADL list. So don't be talking about the twelve apostles or the Twelve Steps and think you can save space by using the numerals. Friday the Thirteenth is fine but using Friday the 13th? You're probably a hater. And if you want to give 110% or talk about the 99% you should be fine - today, anyway - but tread carefully and keep an eye on updates at the ADL.
I would bring the hammer down on this nonsense but -oops! - Thor's Hammer is also a hate symbol. Pro-tip - it was harder to burn my Avenger blu-ray disc than I expected, but the comic books went up nicely.
Let's have a To Be Fair moment here: First, the ADL admits that context counts:
Despite the widespread use of the Thor's Hammer symbol by white supremacists, the fact that it is an important symbol for non-racist Norse pagans means that one should never assume that the Thor's Hammer appearing by itself necessarily denotes racism or white supremacy. Instead, one should carefully judge the symbol in the context in which it appears.
Do tell. The same disclaimer applies to Pepe, obviously, but when there are political points to be scored nuance is an early victim. Here is the ADL on Pepe:
However, because so many Pepe the Frog memes are not bigoted in nature, it is important to examine use of the meme only in context. The mere fact of posting a Pepe meme does not mean that someone is racist or white supremacist. However, if the meme itself is racist or anti-Semitic in nature, or if it appears in a context containing bigoted or offensive language or symbols, then it may have been used for hateful purposes.
So if Pepe is adorned with swastikas or appearing with Trump, it is hate speech. Clear?
I would observe that in other contexts cultural appropriation is something our friends on the left deplore. However, when it suits them it seems that abject surrender is the preferred course. I infer that from this banal entry in (I kid you not) a NY Times roundtable series of essays on Pepe. First, the obvious:
A Meme Can Become a Hate Symbol by Social Consensus
No kidding; see "swastika". But as to Pepe:
An individual might declare that his or her personal use of the swastika or Confederate flag isn’t racist, but individual protestation can’t overturn social consensus, or obviate the experiences of those who read the symbols as synonymous with hate.
Similarly, until Pepe casts off this iteration of his meme — an outcome the cartoonist who created him, for one, is hopeful for — he will remain intertwined with white supremacist ideology. So as the Anti-Defamation League suggests, think before you retweet.
So surrender is definitely the safer option because someone out there might be triggered and we don't want to accidentally erase or invalidate anyone who finds Pepe offensive. As to how Pepe users can "cast off" this appropriation without actually using the symbol and risking opprobrium, well, I never claimed to be smart enough to be a lefty.
If these deep thinkers had any conviction they would have compared Pepe with something well, comparable, not the swastika. But the election is only a month away.
The Hate Symbol Designation Gives Too Much Power to Trolls
...
Alt-right trolls have a history of adopting cultural figures and turning them into white supremacist idols. 4chan's obsession with Taylor Swift and Elsa from "Frozen" is primarily due to their blond hair, blue eyes and other Aryan traits. Swift and Elsa have become Nazi icons for a certain sector of the alt-right. But it'd be ridiculous to call them hate symbols.
The Anti-Defamation League's mission to document modern-day hate speech is noble and practical, especially while chaotic, rebellious right-wing ideologies continue to gain influence. But I believe this designation gives a group of trolls too much power to co-opt harmless imagery.
Taylor Swift can speak (and sing) for herself so she may have a chance, unless she endorses a conservative somewhere someday. But I fear that Elsa, like Melba, is toast.
Simple rule to follow until Nov. 8th: Any insignia Trump followers wear is racist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic, anti-Religion of Peaceic, anti-genderidentityrespectingic, ignorant, ableist, nameist, and body shaming. Did I miss anything?
Stick with the flag. We are dealing with these people---
repost
Truest two paragraphs I've read in ages:
But Noah’s mentality is the modern liberal mindset. If only we didn’t have a military the world would be nice to us and we wouldn’t need a military. If we banned guns bad guys wouldn’t have them. If we raise the minimum wage dramatically it won’t impact employment. If we redistribute wealth it won’t dampen creativity, innovation, or hard work. If we let in all the Syrian refugees, they will all be so grateful none of them will become terrorists or insist on Sharia law.
To be a modern liberal is to be perpetually immature, which in itself is an annoying enough personality trait, but liberals are usually not content to just be immature, often pairing this with a certain condescending smugness, totally oblivious that their deep thoughts and well held philosophies are sophomoric and stupid when considered rationally.
've noticed that when the MSM develops a meme to drumbeat for a week, Trump dives in the traditional polls for awhile, but then he slowly rebounds. I can think of three possible explanations for this:
1) these polls are being deliberately massaged during the meme period in an effort to drive public opinion, in an effort to turn Dem hopes into reality.
2) a large portion of the electorate can't make up their minds, so when they hear the latest Trump is Hitler meme they decide they'll vote against him, but then the meme fades and their feeble memories fade along with it.
3) the response rates to the polls are so dismal--I've read as little as 5-10% --that when the next version of a Trump is Hitler meme comes spewing out of the MSM, the small subset of the population that becomes enraged by it are more likely to answer the phone this time and let someone know how they aren't going to vote for him because MSNBC said he called a fat woman Miss Piggy.
The thing is the LA Times tracking, which has been polling the same 3200 people on a rolling basis from the beginning hasn't gyrated up and down nearly as much as the more traditional polls, and has been holding pretty steady around a 4% Trump lead for quite awhile now. It doesn't make sense that the MSM memes could move opinion so easily with the population in general, yet the LA Times' 3200 consistently have been immune to the manipulation.
Now their 3200 sample could be skewed, but at least you can see if there is movement within it. Or not.
pepe is evil.
the Gadsden Flag is raysiss.
the Betsy Ross Flag is raysiss.
The CSA Battle Flag is raysiss.
"All Lives Matter" is raysiss.
"Blue Lives Matter" is raysiss.
White people are raysiss.
The JustUs Department for "My People" Holder is good.
Sharia Law head chopper "refugees" are good.
Jack booted John Chisolm, Kevin Kennedy (and his BFF Lois Lerner) are patriotic.
right. I hung up on 6 different polls last night. Efemall.
derwill--I think the way those hamburger helpers polls (™ Mickey Kaus)..is the media stenographers pick a "narrative" , publish it, then the pollsters ask "Did you read or see a report that Trump..." "What do you think of such? Who do you choose, the Madonna Hillary or Trump?
I have never in my life been polled. I have lived in Florida, Maryland, Tennessee, DC, California, New York and overseas. i did do an exit interview in Germantown, TN after voting for Reagan in 1984.
I realize living in New York now it would be silly to poll me or anyone here. So, I can see why Buckeye who lives in Ohio would get polled so often. Just wondering if this is how the polls are skeweed?
I was speaking with an LIV friend over the weekend who thinks Trump is a jerk and has a big ego, but despises Hillary, thinks she is pure evil, and that she will destroy the country. This friend said that she would never tell a pollster she is going to vote for Trump because she doesn't want to "get put on a list" in case Hillary wins. In fact she is paranoid that the federal government would somehow know how she voted. I reminded her we live in Idaho, and as far as the Dems are concerned the entire state needs to be shipped off to the re-education camps, but that there are also more guns here than people, so . . .
I have another friend whose husband got polled during the Republican primary. He's a 67 year old white male. He told the pollster he was a 23 year old hispanic female.
I think a not insignificant portion of the population has become so distrustful of the government, the media, and the political parties that they aren't playing the game anymore. Whether that portion is enough to swing an election, I have no idea. I think it does account for Trump's existence in the first place, though.
Did I read that correctly - Thomas Collins is looking for another bet, re: black voters for Trump? A minimum of 12%. 15% is reasonable. 18% is quite possible...
34% of Brits said they would not travel to the US if Trump is elected according to a new Torygraph poll. 23% said they like Trump (must be part of the Brexit crowd).
Those 34% ers of Brits are just like the ones here who promise to more to Canada everytime a Republican is elected. They never move. And the Brits will keep coming here although not if the pound continues to decline like it is today.
Thanks, JiB; my former roomie just texted me that he was at the airport 12 hours early so this isn't exactly getting off to an auspicious start. Plus before dropping Teddy at the dog lodge yesterday I took him for a romp at the dog park and he got me upset, after playing well with the other dogs, by acting aggressively with a young Malamute. The male I formerly had, Trane, used to infuriate me by picking fights with an amiable dog down the street for whatever dog trigger reason. Maggie was easy to figure out: she hated all other dogs.
The Browns are playing better under Jackson than under previous head coaches; they could've won the last two games. I'm more encouraged about their future than I've previously been.
I have tremendous love for Joakim Noah. Tremendous! He is to be admired for many, many reasons. But the article is correct: he is quite representative of what has been done to the ability of the young to actually THINK in this country.
It's almost as if all college orientations should have some sort of mandatory convocation where John Lennon's song IMAGINE is played and discussed is a real way instead of listened to as pie-in-the-sky nonsense.
I quit using email when ads pertinent to the content started showing up. Not as bad as rape, but still hard on the spirit.
Fortunately, email isn't very necessary for me. I pity those hooked on it, which is just about everybody.
Letters per snailmail are fun to write, but I don't have much need for that, either. I do text exhaustively, er, exhaustingly, but just suppress my paranoia about the loss of privacy there.
Thanks, JiB. They're none of them to be trusted an inch.
Are you watching the debate tonight? I have to take my daughter to gymnastics but I'll try to follow along if the other moms aren't too chatty. They better not try to engage me on politics. :)
RG: I have tremendous love for Joakim Noah. Tremendous! He is to be admired for many, many reasons.
I live a few hours from West Point, If Joakim would like to gain a little insight, I would be happy to visit with him for an hour over coffee, tea, or a beer.
I’d like to think we could come to an understanding.
Simple rule to follow until Nov. 8th: Any insignia Trump followers wear is racist, anti-Semitic, misogynistic, anti-Religion of Peaceic, anti-genderidentityrespectingic, ignorant, ableist, nameist, and body shaming. Did I miss anything?
Posted by: Thomas Collins | October 04, 2016 at 11:20 AM
A guy just now on CNBC who polls millenials said their enthusiasm for the Hill dropped by 7 points after the debate..
Posted by: glasater | October 04, 2016 at 11:24 AM
Stick with the flag. We are dealing with these people---
repost
Truest two paragraphs I've read in ages:
But Noah’s mentality is the modern liberal mindset. If only we didn’t have a military the world would be nice to us and we wouldn’t need a military. If we banned guns bad guys wouldn’t have them. If we raise the minimum wage dramatically it won’t impact employment. If we redistribute wealth it won’t dampen creativity, innovation, or hard work. If we let in all the Syrian refugees, they will all be so grateful none of them will become terrorists or insist on Sharia law.
To be a modern liberal is to be perpetually immature, which in itself is an annoying enough personality trait, but liberals are usually not content to just be immature, often pairing this with a certain condescending smugness, totally oblivious that their deep thoughts and well held philosophies are sophomoric and stupid when considered rationally.
http://spectator.org/the-world-of-joakim-noah/
Posted by: working deplorable momma | October 04, 2016 at 11:24 AM
Reposting from the previous thread:
've noticed that when the MSM develops a meme to drumbeat for a week, Trump dives in the traditional polls for awhile, but then he slowly rebounds. I can think of three possible explanations for this:
1) these polls are being deliberately massaged during the meme period in an effort to drive public opinion, in an effort to turn Dem hopes into reality.
2) a large portion of the electorate can't make up their minds, so when they hear the latest Trump is Hitler meme they decide they'll vote against him, but then the meme fades and their feeble memories fade along with it.
3) the response rates to the polls are so dismal--I've read as little as 5-10% --that when the next version of a Trump is Hitler meme comes spewing out of the MSM, the small subset of the population that becomes enraged by it are more likely to answer the phone this time and let someone know how they aren't going to vote for him because MSNBC said he called a fat woman Miss Piggy.
The thing is the LA Times tracking, which has been polling the same 3200 people on a rolling basis from the beginning hasn't gyrated up and down nearly as much as the more traditional polls, and has been holding pretty steady around a 4% Trump lead for quite awhile now. It doesn't make sense that the MSM memes could move opinion so easily with the population in general, yet the LA Times' 3200 consistently have been immune to the manipulation.
Now their 3200 sample could be skewed, but at least you can see if there is movement within it. Or not.
Posted by: derwill | October 04, 2016 at 11:30 AM
Posted by: Dave (in MA) | October 04, 2016 at 11:35 AM
derwill, perhaps a bit of all three reasons.
I know I am hanging up on pollsters 4 or 5 times a day now.
Posted by: Buckeye | October 04, 2016 at 11:38 AM
pepe is evil.
the Gadsden Flag is raysiss.
the Betsy Ross Flag is raysiss.
The CSA Battle Flag is raysiss.
"All Lives Matter" is raysiss.
"Blue Lives Matter" is raysiss.
White people are raysiss.
The JustUs Department for "My People" Holder is good.
Sharia Law head chopper "refugees" are good.
Jack booted John Chisolm, Kevin Kennedy (and his BFF Lois Lerner) are patriotic.
right. I hung up on 6 different polls last night. Efemall.
Posted by: henry | October 04, 2016 at 11:43 AM
derwill--I think the way those hamburger helpers polls (™ Mickey Kaus)..is the media stenographers pick a "narrative" , publish it, then the pollsters ask "Did you read or see a report that Trump..." "What do you think of such? Who do you choose, the Madonna Hillary or Trump?
Posted by: clarice b. for Brainiac | October 04, 2016 at 11:52 AM
I have never in my life been polled. I have lived in Florida, Maryland, Tennessee, DC, California, New York and overseas. i did do an exit interview in Germantown, TN after voting for Reagan in 1984.
I realize living in New York now it would be silly to poll me or anyone here. So, I can see why Buckeye who lives in Ohio would get polled so often. Just wondering if this is how the polls are skeweed?
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 04, 2016 at 11:53 AM
...correction: I did live in Ohio but not at voting age. When I got out of Cincy I was voting age but there was no general election that year....
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 04, 2016 at 11:54 AM
I was speaking with an LIV friend over the weekend who thinks Trump is a jerk and has a big ego, but despises Hillary, thinks she is pure evil, and that she will destroy the country. This friend said that she would never tell a pollster she is going to vote for Trump because she doesn't want to "get put on a list" in case Hillary wins. In fact she is paranoid that the federal government would somehow know how she voted. I reminded her we live in Idaho, and as far as the Dems are concerned the entire state needs to be shipped off to the re-education camps, but that there are also more guns here than people, so . . .
Posted by: derwill | October 04, 2016 at 11:55 AM
More Clinton lawbreaking and the FBI that will be ignored by the media.
Posted by: henry | October 04, 2016 at 11:56 AM
We hang up on all poll-takers. And they call repeatedly every day.
Posted by: sbw | October 04, 2016 at 11:56 AM
I have another friend whose husband got polled during the Republican primary. He's a 67 year old white male. He told the pollster he was a 23 year old hispanic female.
I think a not insignificant portion of the population has become so distrustful of the government, the media, and the political parties that they aren't playing the game anymore. Whether that portion is enough to swing an election, I have no idea. I think it does account for Trump's existence in the first place, though.
Posted by: derwill | October 04, 2016 at 12:03 PM
Posted by: Dave (in MA) | October 04, 2016 at 12:14 PM
23 years ago on this date we found out what it's like to have a Clinton in charge of the military.
Posted by: Dave (in MA) | October 04, 2016 at 12:18 PM
Pepe!!!
He is everywhere.
Posted by: Porchlight | October 04, 2016 at 12:25 PM
ADL Calls on The County to Allow Muslim Women's Headcoverings in Its Courtroom
http://archive.adl.org/nr/exeres/109fb9d0-5c95-414d-8876-7a6fce96f437,0b1623ca-d5a4-465d-a369-df6e8679cd9e,frameless.html
Hijabs aren't symbols...
Posted by: Threadkiller | October 04, 2016 at 12:25 PM
Did I read that correctly - Thomas Collins is looking for another bet, re: black voters for Trump? A minimum of 12%. 15% is reasonable. 18% is quite possible...
Posted by: Beasts of England | October 04, 2016 at 12:33 PM
Dave (in MA),
Blackhawk Down?
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 04, 2016 at 12:34 PM
My apologies to Porchlight. Looks Kaine is two-faced jerk of the highest order. Another Pelosi/Cuomo/Biden-Catholic.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/meet-planned-parenthoods-tim-kaine-1475537188?tesla=y
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 04, 2016 at 12:36 PM
Correct, JiB.
Posted by: Dave (in MA) | October 04, 2016 at 12:39 PM
So we're all in agreement that Kaine is a lying sack of shit?
Posted by: Captain Hate | October 04, 2016 at 12:43 PM
I'm leaving for the airport shortly so I have to make sure there are no misconceptions I haven't cleared up.
Posted by: Captain Hate | October 04, 2016 at 12:45 PM
34% of Brits said they would not travel to the US if Trump is elected according to a new Torygraph poll. 23% said they like Trump (must be part of the Brexit crowd).
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 04, 2016 at 12:49 PM
So we're all in agreement that Kaine is a lying sack of shit?
I certainly agree.
Posted by: Buckeye | October 04, 2016 at 12:51 PM
Have a great trip, CH and if you see Joe Leaphorn or Jim Chee, say hi for me:)
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 04, 2016 at 12:51 PM
I can't figure out why the pollsters are so curious about my opinion.
Mrs. Buckeye sure is happy enough to ignore mine:)
Posted by: Buckeye | October 04, 2016 at 12:52 PM
34% of Brits said they would not travel to the US if Trump is elected according to a new Torygraph poll.
Maybe they will cancel those stupid NFL games between two terrible teams, which could pretty much be any teams this season.
Posted by: Captain Hate | October 04, 2016 at 12:54 PM
Take a compass, CH--XOXO
Posted by: clarice b. for Brainiac | October 04, 2016 at 12:54 PM
William Kristol in today's Weekly Standard allows a friend to make the case for Trump.
Never say never.
Posted by: maryrose | October 04, 2016 at 12:55 PM
CH
The Browns should go to England.
They couldn't do any worse over there.
Posted by: maryrose | October 04, 2016 at 12:57 PM
JiB
One of my old mentors once said that the Brits were all either boors or queers.
Then his daughter married one:)
I reminded him that we both have English last names.
Posted by: Buckeye | October 04, 2016 at 12:57 PM
CH @ 12:43
Absolutely not.
Calling Kaine a lying sack of shit is an insult to lying sacks of shot everywhere.
Posted by: James D | October 04, 2016 at 12:58 PM
Have a great trip Captain
The Saguaro is beautiful as is the Grand Canyon.
Posted by: maryrose | October 04, 2016 at 12:59 PM
buckeye,
Those 34% ers of Brits are just like the ones here who promise to more to Canada everytime a Republican is elected. They never move. And the Brits will keep coming here although not if the pound continues to decline like it is today.
Posted by: Jim Eagle | October 04, 2016 at 01:02 PM
Thanks, JiB; my former roomie just texted me that he was at the airport 12 hours early so this isn't exactly getting off to an auspicious start. Plus before dropping Teddy at the dog lodge yesterday I took him for a romp at the dog park and he got me upset, after playing well with the other dogs, by acting aggressively with a young Malamute. The male I formerly had, Trane, used to infuriate me by picking fights with an amiable dog down the street for whatever dog trigger reason. Maggie was easy to figure out: she hated all other dogs.
Posted by: Captain Hate | October 04, 2016 at 01:03 PM
The Browns are playing better under Jackson than under previous head coaches; they could've won the last two games. I'm more encouraged about their future than I've previously been.
Posted by: Captain Hate | October 04, 2016 at 01:06 PM
Have a great trip, Captain!
Posted by: Beasts of England | October 04, 2016 at 01:06 PM
I won't use google maps, clarice.
Posted by: Captain Hate | October 04, 2016 at 01:08 PM
Have fun CH!
Posted by: Buckeye | October 04, 2016 at 01:10 PM
Mmmm. . . . Another chance to get BOE to come up here and take me to L'Espalier, at the risk of another tat? I'll need to think about this. :-)
Posted by: Thomas Collins | October 04, 2016 at 01:15 PM
if any of you have a Yahoo email, your email has been read by the government since 2015. Courtesy of the Yahoo management.
If you have a different brand of free email, do not be smug. My impression is they all do this.
Posted by: henry | October 04, 2016 at 01:20 PM
Well heck I think I'll pick lurr of the planet omicron persei 8, he's a big alien lizard with a cape.
Posted by: buccaneer morgan | October 04, 2016 at 01:22 PM
(((sigh)))
I have tremendous love for Joakim Noah. Tremendous! He is to be admired for many, many reasons. But the article is correct: he is quite representative of what has been done to the ability of the young to actually THINK in this country.
It's almost as if all college orientations should have some sort of mandatory convocation where John Lennon's song IMAGINE is played and discussed is a real way instead of listened to as pie-in-the-sky nonsense.
Posted by: RattlerGator | October 04, 2016 at 01:22 PM
I quit using email when ads pertinent to the content started showing up. Not as bad as rape, but still hard on the spirit.
Fortunately, email isn't very necessary for me. I pity those hooked on it, which is just about everybody.
Letters per snailmail are fun to write, but I don't have much need for that, either. I do text exhaustively, er, exhaustingly, but just suppress my paranoia about the loss of privacy there.
Posted by: Facebook? Hah, no way, no not never, no how. | October 04, 2016 at 01:27 PM
Thanks, JiB. They're none of them to be trusted an inch.
Are you watching the debate tonight? I have to take my daughter to gymnastics but I'll try to follow along if the other moms aren't too chatty. They better not try to engage me on politics. :)
Posted by: Porchlight | October 04, 2016 at 01:30 PM
I really don't worry about government snooping.
Any human being on the other end will be bored to tears.
Posted by: Buckeye | October 04, 2016 at 01:31 PM
They better not try to engage me on politics. :)
Give them an ear full if they do:)
Posted by: Buckeye | October 04, 2016 at 01:34 PM
new thread. Putin wants you in it.
Posted by: henry | October 04, 2016 at 01:45 PM
Whew, henry--I stopped planning criminal adventures on yahoo mail years before that--now they'll just be getting views of my Amazon orders.
Posted by: clarice b. for Brainiac | October 04, 2016 at 01:51 PM
lol clarice. I suspect they get copies of those directly from amazon
Posted by: henry | October 04, 2016 at 01:56 PM
RG: I have tremendous love for Joakim Noah. Tremendous! He is to be admired for many, many reasons.
I live a few hours from West Point, If Joakim would like to gain a little insight, I would be happy to visit with him for an hour over coffee, tea, or a beer.
I’d like to think we could come to an understanding.
If only you knew how to get him the message.
Posted by: sbw | October 04, 2016 at 02:16 PM
Never have I been so happy not to care about that fucking Pepe the Frog meme.
And God help those idiots who care enough to post on Twitter.
Posted by: Uma Thurmond's Feet | October 04, 2016 at 02:56 PM