Trump Won't Accept Election Result, Yet

The media is melting down over Trump's refusal to pre-clear any election night shenanigans. This is totally different from Al Gore's behavior in 2000 because, well, Trump.

Comments

[Matt - deplore me if you must]

First! Just because!

[Matt - deplore me if you must]

The media is in permanent meltdown mode during this election cycle. Trump could say "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" and they would report it as animal abuse.

Let's see now; Kennedy stole the 1960 election by all accounts. Nixon had his plumbers. Clinton won with a minority. Boosh stole the election. Kerry said Boosh stole his election too (he was an Algore wannabe, I guess).

Clinton employed the Department of Dirty Tricks against Obama, and now we have the Ministry of Truth coming out of the closet (sometimes sexually) as a bunch of Bolshevik propagandists.

But Trump said mean things!!!!!!

[In a bubble.]

Heh, she'll contest it if she doesn't win by 50 points.

[Captain Hate]

Weekly Tammy:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/oct/19/democrats-say-everything-is-fine-but-they-are-wron/

[Porchlight]

I can think of ways he could have said it better. But who would pledge ahead of time to take his legal options off the table? Only a stupid person.

The fact that the MSM is freaking out tells me this will penetrate in ways they don't like.

[Porchlight]

Reposting from last thread:

Didn't get a chance to post this yesterday, but pre-debate I heard a great call from Wayne Allyn Root to Joe Pags. Root was at the debate in line to get in and actually had to interrupt the call to say "Hi, I'm a guest of Mr. Trump....thank you" to the staffer.

Anyway, very high energy and positive. Two takeaways:

1) Root is very involved in the betting industry. Works with British company. CEO told him the Trump betting looks exactly like the Brexit betting. All the big money on Clinton, but a full 70% of total bets (mostly small) on Trump.

2) Root's friend's wife is a cab driver in Las Vegas. Is taking an informal poll of customers, done in a friendly way with a laugh. She has asked "about 100 people and has gotten 100 Donald Trumps. Not one person in the privacy of her cab has said Hillary Clinton."

Here's the call if you want to listen: https://www.facebook.com/JoeTalkShow/videos/vb.106854275018/10157871824735019/?type=3&theater

[Dave (in MA)]

yes, Porchlight. The side that regularly litigates to try overturning elections has its collective panties in a wad over Trump not taking that option off the table in advance.

[Captain Hate]

Will Lawrence Tribe agree to hang himself by the neck in public if Curb Dive or one of her agents legally challenges the legitimacy of a Trump victory?

[Comanche Voter]

Well the poll that really counts will occur in early November. I've got a couple of liberal lawyer friends who are both NeverTrumpers, although one is more of a Bernie Bro.

We have a lunch scheduled for a week after the election. Some of us are going to be wearing sackcloth and ashes at the result. But as Joe Willie Namath famously said, "Better them than me." One lives in hope.

[Truthbetold5]

Trump TV: Was the last debate Trump’s chance to debut his rumored online channel?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/10/20/was-the-final-debate-a-chance-for-donald-trump-to-preview-the-rumored-trump-tv-channel/

[Buckeye]

I can think of ways he could have said it better.

Pretty much everything Trump says could be said in a more articulate manner.

He sounds just like "regular guy" sitting on a bar stool.

Which is one of the big reasons they don't think he is a phony.

[Texas Liberty Gal]

Has anybody seen any mention of this in the msm?

http://libertynews.com/2016/10/pentagon-officials-furious-after-clinton-announces-us-response-time-for-nuclear-launch-during-debate/

[Porchlight]

Very true, Buckeye. If we want rehearsed lines and poll-tested catchphrases, Pantsuit is always available.

[Appalled (Alt-Moderate)]

The media spends so much time in a state of highest dudgeon that they lose sight of gradiations of awful. If Trump loses by 15% in 49 of 50 states, and contests the result -- he is all the things he will be called. If he loses by one state, and loses by 250 votes in that one state, he would be a traitor to his voters if he accepted that without a struggle.

Trump's answer, in this case, was really the right one. The Russia answer, on the other hand...geez.

[dublindave]

"No puppet. No puppet here. I'm no puppet. Ask Sean Hannity. Call Sean Hannity. Someone call Valdmir pu-I mean Sean Hannity. I'm no Manchurian candidate. Let me grab your pussy little girl. How old are you?10?I'll have to wait another 3 years. I have a child rape case coming up...I'll have to wait"

--Donald Trump rambling during last nights debate

[Barbara]

From last thread:

Looks like Nate Silver is all in for Hillary. Not that I'm surprised.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/

Gateway Pundit cites a Washington Post poll with different results.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/breaking-polls-trump-former-obama-states-ia-fl-oh-nv/

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

The reason why the MSM is having hysterics is because he has served noticed that if the fraud is too blatant he's going to make a royally big stink about it, maybe even take them to court. There will still be fraud of course, but maybe now they'll be forced to be more discreet about it, which will end up diminishing the impact. That O'Keefe video alone probably cut in half the number of buses we'll see crossing the border into WI .

[jimmyk]

Malik Obama ‏@ObamaMalik

I'm sorry my brother could not be a great president. But trump will fix it!

Not verified, but appears authentic. His whole Twitter feed is a riot.

https://twitter.com/ObamaMalik

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki6lvK1_Hpg

Trump live rally, Delaware, Ohio, live stream.

Supposed to start at 12:30

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/10/suny-professer-trump-now-87-chance-winning-election/

[jimmyk]

I realize Malik is only a half brother, but he looks a lot like Barack Sr and nothing like Barry Frank Marshall Davis Soetero (who in turn looks nothing like Barack Sr. Just sayin'.

[Beasts of England]

Yes, TLG, she revealed TS/NC2 information to the public. An incredible breach. That's a criminal offense. Worse still, is that because such information is special access (SAP), she has no reason to be read-in to the program, meaning, her husband probably divulged that incredibly sensitive information to her.

[jimmyk]

So Politifact somehow found a way to make Hillary's false claim about Heller "half true"?

http://twitchy.com/dougp-3137/2016/10/20/come-on-politifact-ruling-on-hillarys-toddler-spin-for-dc-gun-ban-attempt-sends-heads-to-desks/

[Cecil Turner]

Trump's answer, in this case, was really the right one.

Yeah, whatever. The bottom line is talking about contesting election results is admitting you're losing. "Unconditional victory" = smart. "Rigged election" = dumb.

[Texas Liberty Gal]

OMG Beasts ! Unbelievable! Hope to hear Trump talking about it at his next rally.

Porch or MM - link to Reddit thread on Podesta #13 whenever you get a chance. I tried to do it by myself but wasn't sure if I was at the right place.

[CF]

Anyone hear about that person walking around sillycon valley with a big purse lettered E.M.P. asking about nuclear wessels and power plants?

[rse]

I knew no one at jom would want to miss how to strengthen job oppo's for our immigrant workforce. https://assets.aspeninstitute.org/content/uploads/2016/10/Working-Together-To-Strengthen-Americas-Immigrant-Workforce.pdf

[Texas Liberty Gal]

MM and/or Porch - I think I found the right link - https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald

[rse]

Oh and a particular unnamed jom reader will appreciate knowing it was the Annie E Casey F that funded the report.

[James D]

How many trillions of dollars has been wasted, and how much misery has been created, and how many lives have been lost, by the "Great Society" programs and other liberal ideas, because Nixon did the "smart" and "decent" thing and failed to contest the theft of the 1960 election?

When the referees let the other team play with three extra guys on the field, and award them 14 points for each touchdown, and look the other way when the other team's fans start throwing bricks and glass bottles at your players...it's not whining to call that out. And that's about where we are with Dem/media efforts to steal this election.

[Appalled (Alt-Moderate)]

Cecil:

Not a fan of the "rigged election" meme (and have said so). But that ship sailed long ago.

BTW, are you voting Hillary, not voting, or voting Libertarian (or voting for that McMullin guy)?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/58gcbs/when_my_democrat_wife_and_her_democrat_friends/

"When my democrat wife and her democrat friends yelled "LIAR" at the TV every time Hillary opened her mouth"

This is an interesting perspective since most of us didn't watch the debate with democrats.

[Porchlight]

Isn't our ANN in that part of Ohio? I hope she is there at the rally! It's such a fantastic experience.

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

--Yeah, whatever. The bottom line is talking about contesting election results is admitting you're losing. "Unconditional victory" = smart. "Rigged election" = dumb.--

Hillary screeching about some tin foil hat conspiracy between Trump and the Russians = dumber + admitting you're losing worse.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Texas Liberty Gal,

Yes, that is the right link.

If you register, you can comment and ask questions. The default option is to have comments sorted by "best."

Up at the top you will see "sorted by" and a drop down box. On some threads I sort by chronological order (old or new, depending on what the thread is).

Also, if it is a larger thread and you want to see all of the posts, choose the option to show "all". On really large threads you will be given the option "show 500", at which point at the bottom there will be a small option to show additional posts.

Kek was originally a reference to the Egyptian God of chaos, but is apparently no used as a mark of approval ("top Kek"). Pepe is the green frog mascot which got Hillary talking about Nazi frogs.

If you have any other questions, you can ask Porchlight or me.

Warning: addictive!

[Thomas Collins]

We have conclusive evidence that Campaign Clinton was fomenting violence at Trump's rallies. That itself is sufficient to establish an attempt at rigging. The dead people and illegals on voter rolls constitute additional evidence, unless one thinks the GOP gets the majority or the dead and illegal vote.

[Porchlight]

her husband probably divulged that incredibly sensitive information to her.

Great guess. I'm sure you're right.

Let's also not forget Slow Joe pointing at the guy carrying the nuclear football.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNfBo8biMiE

[Porchlight]

Here you go, TLG!

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/58gi7w/wikileaks_the_13th_batch_of_podesta_emails_are_up/

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Apparently Cecil thinks that even though there is plain evidence of voter fraud, Trump is supposed to act like everything is fair and square.

I profoundly disagree. If someone is trying to undermine the will of the people with vote fraud, it should not be accepted.

The reason we had the Florida recount is that Gore couldn't accept that his cheating still wasn't enough to overcome Bush's win.

So I am glad Trump refused to do a pre-concession, which is what he was being asked for. He also put them on notice that he IS paying attention and he WILL challenge shady stuff.

[Cecil Turner]

. . . (or voting for that McMullin guy) . . .

Probably. I have an issue with intel guys running operations (they generally suck at it), but he's the protest vote that sends the closest message (as if anybody at party HQ is listening). Mickey Mouse is tempting (as is Giant Douche), but I think I can resist.

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

derwill-

still trying to figure out there angle on that nutter conspiracy. but the Russians are sailing through the English Channel so there's that.

any response, any challenge?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7AIGi5u328

Alternate live stream.

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

Some stuff already coming out of the Podesta emails #13''

Yet another plot to smear poor, dumb Bernie.

Proof of illegal server "intent."

https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/PodestaEmails13?src=hash

[Porchlight]

Hmmm. Typepad does not like my link to Project Veritas.

Anyway, video #1 features lots of evidence of voter and election fraud.

Given the stakes of this election, and the insane amount of criminal and underhanded activity by the Dems that has been exposed to date, I think it would be crazy for Trump not to state unequivocally that he is going to be looking at all options.

Anything less would be essentially saying "sky's the limit" to those who have every intention of tampering.

Cecil's right that he should be projecting confidence in victory. But he also answered a simple question (that his opponent wasn't asked) honestly. I think we're just not used to that.

[Cecil Turner]

Apparently Cecil thinks that even though there is plain evidence of voter fraud, Trump is supposed to act like everything is fair and square.

No. What he ought to do is act like he's winning (even though pretty much everyone knows that's not true). There's an outside chance of a big break, but not if you tell the folks on the fence victory is impossible.

Yet another unforced error in a long list. And to answer Appalled's above, yes, the ship has sailed, but continued harping just exacerbates the problem and interferes with what might be his last chance to send a message.

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

rich, I think I read somewhere that Britain is scrambling their fleet. So we are going to have a bunch of warships sailing around a relatively narrow body of water and pointing their guns at each other. It's insane.

[henry]

If the Russians turn, sail up the Thames, and rescue Assange... the there is something to the "RUSSIANS !!eleventy!!!" claims.

I'll await events.

[Beasts of England]

Well stated, Thomas Collins! Also, conspiring to deprive citizens of their right to peaceful assembly - and actually resorting to violence to achieve that end, as they did - is a massive violation of civil rights. I'd like to see Giuliani prosecute that case when he becomes AG.

[Porchlight]

Cecil, just curious. Is there anything Trump could say or do at this point that would change your mind about not voting for him?

If the answer is no, then you are a decided voter. He isn't supposed to be angling for your vote at this late date.

As Jane said earlier, the undecideds and soft supporters are the ballgame right now.

We're all decided here, for the most part, so we're not the target audience and maybe we're not seeing what others are seeing. CNN focus group and Luntz's Duntzes liked what they saw last night.

[fdcol63]

I expect that, as a system designed and run and used by imperfect humans, our electora system will necessarily be imperfect and flawed. I don't expect to have a perect system.

But I think ours has become so corrupt and tainted and abused that I have absolutely NO faith and confidence in it anymore.

Worse, still, is that I no longer have faith and confidence in the ability of the American people to make good decisions at the ballot box.

Positive change will not come through the mechanism of elections.

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

Not sure how saying you will roll over and accept the results of an election no matter what the circumstances is acting like you're winning. Sounds more to me like you've already accepted defeat. Typical tomato can thinking, and yet another reason among many why Romney got his ass handed to him in an election he could have won.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Trump is addressing vote fraud right now, Cecil. You should probably see what he is saying. The live stream will convert to a replay when it's finished.

What he just said was that the question was unprecedented and he was being asked to concede and ignore legal precedent such as Bush vs Gore.

He also mentioned the numbers of dead people who are stil registered, the numbers registered in 2 states, the 14% of non citizens who vote, etc.

Also violence at his rallies instigated by the Clinton campaign, and points out that anyone who does this will do anything.

SO, I think he is on the right side on this, and you are just plain wrong.

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

derwill;

good times. good times.

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

and I'm not following Cecil's reasoning either.

[Beasts of England]

Don't forget: Gore conceded in 2000 and then retracted his concession. So I'm sick and [redacted] tired of this accept-the-results crap!!

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Trump said he is going to re-organize the bureaucracy.

Points out trade policy is in dozens of bureaucracies. Will be closed and consolidated with one mission, "the American desk," located in the Commerce department, with the misison being that of making through trade deals work for the country and the American worker.

[Captain Hate]

Trolls and buzzkills; and Halloween is eleven days away.

[Threadkiller]

Seeing Cecil's name so many times forced my hand, so I unnarcisolated him.

As far as I'm concerned his infrequent flyer comments aren't sufficient enough for me to continue our deal. Sue me.

Cecil says:
Yeah, whatever. The bottom line is talking about contesting election results is admitting you're losing. "Unconditional victory" = smart. "Rigged election" = dumb.

I mostly agree with you since the retarded loser GOP primary candidates, and their equally loser fan base, cried "rigged" everytime they said the media was in the tank for Trump.

They lost because they complained? Or they lost because they fomented the notion that Trump's primary victory would be contested at the convention?

Probably both.

[GUS]

It's funny, the whole nation knows RODHAM lies. You are watching her at the debate...KNOWING she is going to lie. And the MFM still pretends not to see it.

[Cecil Turner]

If the answer is no, then you are a decided voter. He isn't supposed to be angling for your vote at this late date.

My state is so deep red even he can't lose it; it's not my vote he needs. But there are states he must win, and the few available votes are not going to be swayed by hot button partisan political issues (those votes were decided long ago). He's throwing red meat to a steadily dwindling audience.

SO, I think he is on the right side on this, and you are just plain wrong.

Well, we don't have long to wait before it's proved one way or the other. Cheers.

[Beasts of England]

Very good points, TK!! Good grief, there's credible evidence that the GOPe was trying to overturn the outcome of the primaries as recently as two weeks ago! Losers, all.

[Beasts of England]

Where's your proof that he has a steadily dwindling audience, Cecil?

[Captain Hate]

And the MFM still pretends not to see it.

According to the MFM there are no objective truths which is why it's unpossible for Fatass to be a liar. It's also why they sound like brainless idiots when talking about a new planet.

[Porchlight]

Cecil, you didn't answer my question. I'm not asking your opinion about what other people think, I'm asking what you think. Is there anything he could say or do to change your mind?

The thing is, the election integrity issue isn't merely red meat. Per the poll posted earlier by henry, 72% report that they are concerned about it. It seems to me that it is a bipartisan concern (just like immigration, trade, Obamacare, national security and nearly every other Trump issue).

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

He is going not for the people he already has. He's going for the black vote as well.

He needs a mandate to get things accomplished, and that is what he is shooting for.

That "steadily dwindling audience" has over 100,000 on Facebook and the live streams in the middle of the day on a Thursday.

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

If anyone is still undecided at his point, and if they end up deciding at all from this debate, it's going to be based entirely on "feelings." The fact that Trump won all the focus groups last night tells me he connected positively with the audience, and she didn't.

Apparently Hillary did a lot of reading from her cheat screen. That's bad because it meant she was looking down, not making eye contact and reaching through the camera. Shows a lack of conviction and sincerity. Also looking down, rather than making eye contact, is a subliminal message that the speaker is lying.

[GUS]

Derwill, it wasn't subliminal, she was lying.

[Captain Hate]

The Ewok Chronicles:

Once Again, Media Ignores All Parts of Debate That Favored Trump to Zero In On the Two Parts That Favored Hillary

The "two storylines" that emerged from this debate, as MeAgain Kelly beamed joyously last night, are 1, Trump's aside "Such a nasty woman" and 2, Trump's refusal to say he'd "accept" the results of the election.

As to the first: Trump said this in direct response to a cheap-shot insult -- one that Hillary laughed as she delivered, turning it from a common political attack into an attempt to humiliate through mocking laughter.

Defending her sham Social Security scheme, she said she'd raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for it, then added in a chuckling quip, "I'm sure you'll find ways to avoid paying it, Donald," or something like that.

Apparently there are a lot of women, including lots of women who don't call themselves liberal feminists -- MeAgain Kelly and half of the online female "conservative" commentariat, for starters -- who actually think that a woman is allowed to insult a man to the accompaniment of a witch's mocking cackle and the man is not allowed to say anything more than "I agree with you, Thee of the Superior Sex."

Go fuck yourselves, women (and some men) who think this way. You're not superior and you have no special rights and privileges, and men do not have a special requirement to defer to you in all things.

People who claim these things seem to be trying to vindicate some personal, at-home domestic issue -- "My husband is such a useless cad!" -- through their political agitation.

You have two choices, ladies: You can either compete in the hard world, or you can keep to the soft world. You cannot go out into the hard world, and in fact employ the tactics of the hard world like insult and mockery, and then demand to be treated by the rules of the soft world.

That's not feminism -- that's infantilism. Learn the difference. The only man in the world obligated to treat you like Daddy's Little Girl is your actual Daddy.

As to the claim that Trump is destroying the Republic by refusing to say in advance that he'd "accept" the results of the election -- Hillary Clinton said in 2002 that George W. Bush had been "selected, not elected" and just this week Hillary nodded and clapped and smiled along with a crowd shouting to Al Gore YOU WON! YOU WON! YOU WON!

As Larry O'Connor points out in that piece, much of Gore's subsequent speech on Hillary's behalf strongly implied he'd actually won the election, but not by enough votes that the Supreme Court was chastened from stealing it from him. And Hillary clapped merrily along.

[boris]

"What he ought to do is ..."

In a debate setting without experienced political advice at hand Trump has to rely on his ability to sell and persuade.

If there are inside baseball political tricks he ought to employ that's probably not going to happen in a debate.

Rush also talks about missed opportunities to counter attack but it's probably because Rush is more plugged into the WWWE gameshow of politics than Trump is.

[Porchlight]

Go fuck yourselves, women (and some men) who think this way. You're not superior and you have no special rights and privileges, and men do not have a special requirement to defer to you in all things.

Amen! The Ewok hits it out of the park.

[Porchlight]

None of this is news to anyone here, but in case it provides you with some responses elsewhere:

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/20/5-times-democrats-claimed-u-s-elections-rigged/

I had forgotten about the gerrymandering complaints. Libs in Texas have been bitching about that ever since Perry stomped them back in 2003.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/10/20/5-times-democrats-claimed-u-s-elections-rigged/

So Megyn Kelly can get up off her fainting couch and shut her mouth. (Censored myself from using Reddit language. LOL!)

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

The king of Morocco paid $12 million to "the endowment" for a meeting with Hillary. Pay to Play.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADKADLADiAEeAExAFbAH_AJwAKXAOWAO2

[Run for the hills.]

There is a nice little irony, here. If it's close and Trump wins, Hillary is far more likely to contest than Trump contesting if it's close.

The irony lies in the fact that rigging for Clinton is far more likely than rigging for Trump, and more easy to prove.

I am coming to more strongly believe it will be contested. It's probably going to be close, absent the suspected Trump tsunami, which is evident in the signs and the enthusiasm.

[David M]

Those five times were all by the losing party in an election. Still means it was a mistake by Trump.

Anyway, I'm not sure the debate mattered. It didn't do anything to change the race, which is probably already over. (Large Clinton lead + early voting + no Trump ground game)

[Porchlight]

This seems kind of big. If this isn't pay-to-play evidence, what is? From Huma to Podesta. $12 million smackers offered from the King of Morocco for a personal meeting with HRC.

So stinky even CGI passed on it before Hillary picked up the ball.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/22030#efmABAADKADLADiAEeAExAFbAH_AJwAKXAOWAO2

From:[email protected] To: [email protected], [email protected] Date: 2015-01-18 13:57 Subject: Re: FYI CGI Africa Thank you for sharing. Just to give you some context, the condition upon which the Moroccans agreed to host the meeting was her participation. If hrc was not part if it, meeting was a non-starter. CGI also wasn't pushing for a meeting in Morocco and it wasn't their first choice. This was HRC's idea, our office approached the Moroccans and they 100 percent believe they are doing this at her request. The King has personally committed approx $12 million both for the endowment and to support the meeting. It will break a lot of china to back out now when we had so many opportunities to do it in the past few months. She created this mess and she knows it. ________________________________

From: Robby Mook Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2015 10:38:52 AM To: Huma Abedin; John Podesta Subject: FYI CGI Africa

Came up on our call with HRC. John flagged the same issues we discussed, Huma.
HRC said she's sitll considering.

[Porchlight]

Dang, derwill, I type too slow!

[DebinNC]

HC's in person events the next week ... Nothing today, tomorrow Cleveland, OH, where it looks like she'll visit a polling place ... 22-23 Pittsburgh and Philly with Kaine (details/location to be announced) ... 24 w/Warren in NH (no deatils, and no location) ... 23-26 in FL (no info at all)

[Thomas Collins]

I am not going to second guess what Trump could have done in the debates. Overall, I think he helped himself. His slide in the pollss is due more to Pravda Media than his debate performances. Who has done better recently? I'd put Reagan in 1980 ahead of Trump, and Carter and Anderson behind Trump. I would put Reagan ahead in '84 and give Mondale a tie with Trump in '84 (Mondale had a loser's hand, but I don't think his debate performance was that bad). I put Trump ahead of the Duke in '88, and tied with GHWB. In '92, I put Perot and Clinton ahead of Trump, and HWB behind. In '96, I put Clinton ahead and Dole behind. In 2000, I put Gore behind and GWB tied. In 2004, I put GWB and Kerry in the same league with Trump. In 2008, I put McCain behind and Obama ahead. In 2012, I put Obama tied Romney behind. So, by my count, since 1980, Trump has bested seven debaters, lost to six and tied 6. I realize people may have different views about debaters, but except for Clinton and Reagan, I'd say Trump was competitive with them all. He certainly handled opposition media better than Romney and McCain.

There is one thing for which Trump can reasonably be faulted without it being classified as second guessing if Trump really did reject his own people not doing an oppo research operation on him and then preparing him for the onslaught. I realize part of Trump's charm has been his spontaneity, but the response to the attacks needs a good amount of scripting.

[Pagar,a bacon, country Ham and Sausage supporter]

As Porchlight mentioned VP Biden points out the guy who carries the football and Hillary tells the Russians how long our nuclear response time is.
Are these questions from the audience or from the Russian intelligence division?
How did the sale of our uranium to Russia get approved?
Yet General Cartwright is going to be the fall guy.

It is totally unbelievable that there are Americans who plan to vote for Hillary Clinton, IMO.

[henry]

That list of losers contesting left out the entire WI recall cycle where Dems occupooped our capitol building, Kloppenburg went ballistic, and the left is still suing over redistricting. This despite massive fraud, e.g at the Chavez Center or unknown quantities of out state protestors voting w/o cancelling their home registrations. Several union types got caught in Milwaukee. The cheating failed and they still bitched.

efemall.

[Thomas Collins]

As far as Trump and Clinton red meat goes, I'd say red meat is still important for turnout. But ads with Trump with his hand over his heart would help with the truly undecided.

I still say Clinton wins a close but clear victory. But I also think there are more undecided voters than is usual at this time. I don't think there is a big secret Trump vote, but there may be a secret undecided vote that Trump could still pull in.

[DebinNC]

I hope Scott Walker has a very bright future somewhere. He so deserves it.

[buccaneer morgan]

Paging admiral painter, mcmuffin is the one that says racism is the big problem with the republicans right?

[Thomas Collins]

Oh, and 2016? I'd make it a tie between The Hill and Trump overall. The Hill's scripting was OK; my hat is off to her handlers.

[MAM]

Wow - Cecil and David M make me look like Ms. Optimism!! Typically, I'm the Eeyore in the room! I think Donald is still in this thing because my lunch room buddies were unsettled today and think Trump was a big-mouthed bully last night and lied his way through the debate. Apparently, several focus groups, including CNN, thought Trump won the debate and that is alarming to the "I'm with Her" group. I told them that Hillary's lies about the Clinton Foundation and Haiti were resonating with independents and undecideds (I have no clue if that's true, I just said it like I had some data to prove it).

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/21779

Above is original email proving Obama knew about the secret server, and they were confused by the statement he made that he found out about it in the media (his default lie when bad news breaks, IMHO).

[Porchlight]

I told them that Hillary's lies about the Clinton Foundation and Haiti were resonating with independents and undecideds (I have no clue if that's true, I just said it like I had some data to prove it).

That's how you do it, MAM! Nice.

[Porchlight]

I can't believe I forgot about Wisconsin, henry. Shame on me.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

In case you miss it on that Wikileaks email exchange, Jennifer Palmieri wrote, "Suggest Philippe talk to Josh or Eric. They know POTUS and HRC emailed."

Joh Earnest (press secretary) and Eric Shultz (deputy press secretary).

[jimmyk]

via Ashe Schow, more hypocrisy from our betters:

Bezos on Peter Thiel: "Peter Thiel is a contrarian. And contrarians are usually wrong."

So much for dissent being patriotic.

[derwill, yet another adorable, irredeemable deplorable]

--Large Clinton lead + early voting + no Trump ground game)--

The two polls that came the the closest to predicting the election in 2012 show Trump either tied or ahead by a point. These polls also just happen not to be affiliated with any of the MSM.

Hard numbers show registered Republicans are leading in the returned ballots in at least three or four of the swing states. I posted those hard numbers here a few days ago. Florida was one.

Hard numbers also show a major shift in registration from Dem to Republican in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania. Also Republicans lead in those states with first time registrations. Also saw a report from Trump's campaign office in NH. They claim they knocked on more doors in one day than Romney did the whole election. (This guy also had hard numbers). Looks like a ground game to me.

[jimmyk]

Cecil and David M make me look like Ms. Optimism!!

Cecil is optimistic, as far as I can tell he wants Trump to lose.

[jimmyk]

Hard numbers show registered Republicans are leading in the returned ballots in at least three or four of the swing states.

The NC numbers I saw didn't seem to show that, at least not in the sense of shifts relative to 2012, but they did show a big jump in "unaffiliated," which would seem to be promising for Trump.

[Frau Rutger Gefahrfeld]

Puppets? I'll give you puppets.

Daddy Soros sez, "She's with ME!"

[Buckeye]

Soros can't die fast enough for me.

[sbw]

I find who will win pro sports games as non-productive and uninteresting as predictions on how the election will turn out.

It the same boring, baseless noise that presumes knowledge not in evidence.

[daddy]

Good Morning and OT. This French 24 story tells me that the Paris Police are also not accepting the idiotic verdicts coming down from their Socialist President Hollande and the idiot Socialist Mayor of Paris:

French police defy government in growing protest movement over lawlessness

Hundreds of police officers have been protesting in Paris and other cities to denounce what they say are insufficient resources to fight mounting lawlessness, defying government demands that they stop the unauthorised demonstrations.

I am over there a lot. These Police guys always look like they are ready for trouble, yet their Socialist Mayor is the one issuing orders now encouraging illegals to come into Paris and set up homeless communities. If I was a Policeman in Paris I'd be livid too.

[Appalled (Alt-Moderate)]

This is an older story but seems connected with Porchlight's wikileaks.

http://freebeacon.com/politics/clinton-foundation-to-hold-conference-with-moroccan-king-for-1-million/

[Frau Warum ist die Banane krum?]

Why are the Dems cursing the Russians *now* when they laughed at Romney for warning about them? Didn't Over-the-hill Hillary! come up with the Magic Reset Button? Didn't Obama promise Medved he'd be more flexible after his re-election? Didn't Pres. Kool recently tell us the US and Russia were going to work together in Syria and the ME?