Times Holds Up Mirror To Their Readership

In a possible bid for the Onion audience the NY Times explains how some of the party of tolerance and inclusion cannot stand to be with their families this holiday season.

Let's dispense with the To Be Fair disclaimer quickly - in a nation of 120 million voters all sorts of behavior can be found. That said, it is interesting to see what the Times looked for, and observed.

Sabrina Tavernise and Katharine Seelye lure their progressive readership in with a bit of misdirection:

Political Divide Splits Relationships — and Thanksgiving, Too

WASHINGTON — Matthew Horn, a software engineer from Boulder, Colo., canceled Christmas plans with his family in Texas. Nancy Sundin, a social worker in Spokane, Wash., has called off Thanksgiving with her mother and brother. Ruth Dorancy, a software designer in Chicago, decided to move her wedding so that her fiancé’s grandmother and aunt, strong Trump supporters from Florida, could not attend.

The election is over, but the repercussions in people’s lives may be just beginning as families across the United States contemplate uncomfortable holidays — or decide to bypass them — and relationships among friends, relatives and spouses are tested across the political divide.

Yes, but - it is not "families" that are balking, it is progressives, as the next paragraph makes clear:

Democrats have dug in their heels, and in some cases are refusing to sit across the table from relatives who voted for President-elect Donald J. Trump, a man they say stands for things they abhor. Many who voted for Mr. Trump say it is the liberals who are to blame for discord, unfairly tarring them with the odious label of “racist” just because they voted for someone else.

The irony is not lost on the Timeswomen, who emphasize it for their readership:

“It’s all one big giant contradiction in my eyes,” said Laura Smith, 30, a small-business owner in Massachusetts who was attacked on Facebook by a relative for voting for Mr. Trump. “She’s saying to spread the love,” Ms. Smith said. “But then you’re throwing this feeling of hate toward me, your own family member.”

There are no specifics offered on the Facebook attack by a relative. But contrast it with the gray fog surrounding this aggrieved Democrat:

Many Democrats harbor their own feelings of being under siege.

“It felt like a rejection of everyone who looks like me,” said Ms. Dorancy, 29, a naturalized American who immigrated from Ghana about a decade ago. “It was a message to me that ‘You are not equal in our eyes. You do not deserve a place in our country.’”

Well, let me try to understand - the woman is here legally and is naturalized, but Trump's denunciation of illegal immigration makes her feel unwelcome? Sometimes, if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. But of course, progressives are elated and elevated by victimhood status, so here we are.

The Times notes a couple of Republicans, but no Democrats, who are able to look past partisan politics in making their holiday decisions. And the whole "party of tolerance and inclusion" theme gets more subtle mockery with this family vignette:

Her daughter, Ms. Sundin, the social worker who voted for Mrs. Clinton, said the election had left her feeling alienated from her family and her country. She said her liberal arts education and her life as a social worker, which began in 1998, had taught her tolerance and the value of being flexible, something she has passed on to her children.

She said she had recently asked her mother to stop talking to her children about politics, after an episode in which she said her mother was discussing Mr. Trump’s immigration ideas.

“I just need her to not have those conversations in front of my kids,” she said.

Ms. Adams says her daughter is just as stubborn when it comes to politics. “Nancy puts up a wall,” she said. “If you don’t vote the way she does, you’re voting wrong.” She added: “Democrats are always trying to talk you out of your ideas.”

On the day after the election, Ms. Sundin asked her brother, a firefighter who voted for Mr. Trump, to stop texting her.

“I told him I was trying to explain to my children ‘why hate wins,’” she said. “His response back was, ‘I get to explain to my children why their opinion matters.’” She has not talked to him since.

“I think I’ll give that one some time,” she said.

Ms. Sundin and her mother recently talked. They met for coffee in a Target, as is their habit. Still, Ms. Sundin has decided to spend Thanksgiving with a few friends and her husband and children, not with her extended family.

Her mother is taking it in stride.

“It doesn’t matter,” she said. “I love her to pieces. I don’t want to change anything with my Nancy. I want her to be just the way she is.”

Love trumps hate indeed.

 

 

Comments

[daddy on iPad]

Bah humbug TM.

[-peter]

You'd think they would be over it after a week.

[henry]

it will last at least 4 years, likely 8

[daddy on iPad]

I thought you guys were joking until I clicked on the link:
CNN BREAKING NEWS: Trump Goes Out To Eat Dinner Tonight

Jake Tapper do we know if the steak Trump is reported to be eating was raised humanely or was it maliciously slaughtered by Big AG?

Well Anderson, we're still waiting on a resolution of that question but we can report that the carbon footprint of the cow in question added approximately 480 milligallons of Methane to Earth's warming atmosphere during the period before it was ruthlessly butchered.

So if he'd have gone vegetarian...?

He'd have done real benefit to the planet, Anderson, real and significant benefit, and by extension, real and significant benefit to all of us that his supporters tell us he cares about.

Gloria Borger, do we know what he had for an appetizer?

Anderson, an unnamed source who asked to remain unidentified tells CNN that they believe Donald Trump had the shrimp cocktail, which as you know is soon to be featured on the list of 2nd Cousins of Environmentally Endangered Spieces.

Thanks Gloria, that's certainly troubling. Wolf can you tell us what he had as a side order?

I certainly can Anderson. He had French fries, which as you know are offensive to our EU allies when referred to as "Freedom Fries." We don't yet know if he called them "Freedom Fries," but we can say that he was reported to have asked for a bottle of Ketchup other than Heinz.

That's certainly troubling. Did he say a blessing before eating?

Yes he did Anderson, but here's the kicker on that. He had his 5 year old granddaugter deliver a Blessing in Manderin Chinese, thus insulting half a billion Chinese by not having her reciting the Blessing in Cantonese, thereby endangering President Obama's efforts to pivot to Asia.

David Gergen, as a Republican, what's your take?

Well Anderson, I don't wish to say that his meal was out of the bounds of propriety of someone in his position, but I do think that the reports we've been hearing, if true, argue that his failure to comply with the Food Pyramid of having at least one green vegetable, bring us back to the realization that he is indeed a potentially reckless individual who disregards the norms that normal, sensitive people share, and therefore is another sign of concern of just how far out of the mainstream of American life Donald Trump is.

Thanks David. Don Lemon, does what Donald Trump is eating tonight suggest to you that he is racist?

Yes it does, Anderson. By refusing to notify the Press of where and when he was eating dinner tonight he kept Black members of the Press out of the restaurant as effectively as if he had said "No Blacks Allowed." We who have been subject to slavery and Jim Crow as my ancestors were would immediately notice the parallels between this and the Civil Rights protesters at the lunch counter in Carolina that ushered in the Civil Rights movements of '64. Certainly this is a nod to his White Supremicist supporters that we are back to a system of 2 tiered justice in America.

Anderson, sorry to interrupt, but we've received more important Breaking News here at CNN.

What is it Wolf?

They've just ordered dessert, Anderson, and it appears Donald Trump has ordered ice cream----"Vanilla Ice Cream!"

"Vanilla?" Not chocolate, not Neapolitan....but "Vanilla."

"Vanilla."

Thanks, Wolf. I have a bad feeling about this, Panelists, I'll come back to your important thoughts on the CNN Breaking News about Donald Trump ordering "Vanilla" Ice Cream for dessert when we return from a commercial break. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

[common man]

The butthurt is strong with these progs. Maybe they are going to need to put some ice on that?

[Joan]

They'll never be over it. Haven't you noticed? Die-hard liberals minds are closed to any opinions but their own. (I started to say 'any truth but their own' -- but, I very seldom see truth in a liberal's opinion.

[Joan]

Oh, gosh, should have edited. Should have said, 'die-hard liberals' minds ...." and, then, there is the 'going from plural liberals to singular liberal' in the same comment.

Woe is my grammar today. :(

:)

[Jim Eagle]

If planes didn't have that pesky autopilot feature we wouldn't have daddy's polemics to enjoy.

Well done, sir. It was when I got to Gloria Borger I suddenly realized it was a parody.

[Rocco]

I'm going to reserve a place at the Thanksgiving dinner table for all of my liberal relatives whether they come or not. I hope they like the dinner napkins.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=baby+diaper+dinner+napkin&view=detail&mid=6968228FBD68E3581D776968228FBD68E3581D77&FORM=VIRE

[JM Hanes]

Brilliant, daddy!

[Foo Bar]

Well, let me try to understand - the woman is here legally and is naturalized, but Trump's denunciation of illegal immigration makes her feel unwelcome?

Denuncation of illegal immigration is one thing, but maybe that woman is uncomfortable with Bannon being so prominent in the campaign and now in White House. It's pretty clear Bannon goes beyond simply being against illegal immigration.

“We have to be careful of that, Steve. You know, we have to keep our talented people in this country,” Trump said. He paused. Bannon said, “Um.”

“I think you agree with that,” Trump said. “Do you agree with that?”

Bannon was hesitant.

“When two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think . . . ” Bannon said, not finishing the sentence. “A country is more than an economy. We’re a civic society.”

Trump said he would build a border wall, but still wanted to let highly educated foreign students who graduate from U.S. colleges to be able to stay in the country.

“I still want people to come in,” Trump said. “But I want them to go through the process.”

Bannon said: “You got to remember, we’re Breitbart. We’re the know-nothing vulgarians. So we’ve always got to be to the right of you on this.”

Someone who is bothered by "too many" CEOs coming from Asia is not only worried about illegal immigration.

The video link at the top of the Post piece provides some excerpts from the radio show where those quotes come from.

[Beasts of England]

I nominate daddy to lead the Ministry of Silly Walks!

[JM Hanes]

Hasn't the White House issued their annual guidance on how to talk to your misogynistic, xenophobic, white supremacist, anti-semitic family over the holidays yet?

[clarice b. for Brainiac]

heh, daddy.

[James D]

They'll never be over it. Haven't you noticed?

They're still not over Reagan, and he hasn't been in office for 28 years.

[Sandy Daze]

daddy - BZ !

MAGA

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Note the only two gracious open minded people in the story are Trump supporters.

IMO anybody who can't sit down to dinner with someone else over who they voted for (possibly barring Nazis and commies) isn't worth sitting down with to begin with.

[Jim Eagle]

Breaking news:

Jack is Back! had breakfast this morning without any press interference.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Expert conflation there Foo Bar.
Take a quote referring to Trump's stance and refute it with the stance of Bannon, which both Trump and Bannon recognize in the very quote you provide, differs from Trump's stance.

[windansea]

Foobars WAPO piece is pathetic

and the alt-right, a loosely defined term describing a far-right ideology that includes opposition to immigration and “globalism”

insert illegal before immigration, which is what Trump is against, and that is a perfectly agreeable statement. BOOOOO! The ALT RIGHT is gonna get you Foobar, best you head for a petting zoo

[Beasts of England]

The new favorite adjective from the media is 'frightening'. I wouldn't suggest a drinking game attached to its use - don't wanna spend the next four years drunk...

[Dave (in MA)]

Buckeye | November 16, 2016 at 10:23 AM from the other thread, an upper middle class lib who does his own manual labor around his property. Astounding. In my observation most of 'em go to yoga and fitness classes regularly but would never stoop to the level of picking up a shovel, rake or broom.

[Foo Bar]

Expert conflation there Foo Bar

Bannon just got appointed chief strategist.

If there were a high-level appointee in Obama's White House who had expressed views you find troublesome, it wouldn't bother you at all as long as Obama himself hadn't expressed the same views?

[JM Hanes]

Foo Bar:

Apparently Ms. Dorancy did not feel welcome in Ghana either.

I believe the Trump team has been pretty open about re-examining certain aspects of legal immigration policy too, although it's my impression that the biggest concern is the displacement of American workers through H-1B non-immigrant visas. Whether that has anything to do with CEOs in Silicon Valley, I don't know, but I gather it's a big factor in IT hiring practices.

[henry]

JMH, there is a perception that H1B CEOs (or department managers for that matter) score points at home by placing more people here. At that point the language of the firm changes from English. The latter is a real problem in some places.

[jimmyk]

Hasn't the White House issued their annual guidance on how to talk to your misogynistic, xenophobic, white supremacist, anti-semitic family over the holidays yet?

No, but the wise Latina would say this:

"That which you would say whichever way that you say that which you say is whichever you would say. That."

[Jim Eagle]

They may want to stop the presses and add _ And Politics! to the title.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W967KQ/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000W967KQ&linkCode=as2&tag=drhelenblog-20&linkId=97dbdb9ea8c93c7e995d52e11831d950

[maryrose]

Who cares if they are not over it?
It is their problem not ours.
Let them be on the wrong side of history.
I agree with Janet.
Whatever whining they bring I just say So?
So called press: Get use to being out of the loop.

[maryrose]

Jimmy:
You are so funny!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I don't expect, nor does any other sane person, an advisor to hold identical views as his boss.
Your penultimate sentence goes beyond being troubled by what Bannon said and uses what he said to implicitly refute what someone said about Trump.

[Jim Eagle]

I realize the book is from 2009 but it is getting lots of play from Amazon while Bezo starts his period of yellow journalism against Trump.

[Appalled]

jimmyk:

I think the wise latina would not say which, because of the possible misogynistic connotations.

[Dave (in MA)]

Just so far this morning at work I've seen a posting promoting a women's book club as "A perfect way to reach out and make real connections in these hard times" and someone asking if the company offers any "bystander intervention training" about "what to do if you see someone being harassed, abused, attacked, etc.", referencing a recent local report of someone leaving some racist notes in some mailboxes.

Trump is still 2 months away from office but it's already getting, as the former interim DNC chair might say, "ridickless".

[Jim Eagle]

In re Breaking promises: When is Obama going to shut down Gitmo and when will people on Obamacare going to keep their doctor?

[Comanche Voter]

I find it difficult to allow my ultraliberal nephew in the house for family dinners. Not so much for his opinions (he would have grown up smarter if I had sent him a "nuke a gay whale" poster for his teenage bedroom), but for his inability to keep from sharing them. Years ago he insulted another guest (not a family member) at a Thanksgiving dinner in my home. I'll tolerate differences of opinion, but not bad manners. It's like housebreaking a puppy--you keep them outside until they can stop pooping on the carpet. OTOH this particular puppy is approaching his 50th birthday. I have had him in the house since that incident, but only when family members are the only ones present.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Comanche Voter,

This is my problem with a couple of my relatives. Now, I had a nice conversatioin with my union democrat brother this morning and we talked about goccery stores and the high prices of certain items, and the fact that there is a new Kroger down by his house. Not one comment about politics.

However, my middle sister is unable to keep her mouth shut, and once came into my own house and made a point about trashing George Bush (back when the war had just started). I got so damn mad I went out in the garage to avoid saying anything, and then she came out and said this clap-trap about ""We are sisters and should be ableto talk about anything."

Well, I am willing to discuss issues but I am NOT willing to listen to how Trump is Hitler and crazy and stupid, which is all that you would get.

I have issued fair warning through the grapevine. Thanksgiving is at my brother's, and if anyone starts in on me with this whining complaining stuff I am simply going home.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

daddy,

EXCELLENT parody but alas, too believable. When I first tsaw that thread on Reddit I thought that CNN picture had been photoshopped, but no!

My favorite is that when the reporters belatedly showed up, they had to stand behind a dumpster!! HA!

I am finding this transitional period pretty amusing. I am also glad that Trump still has his Twitter account and is calling the press out. It gets them even more upset, and frankly, I find it hilarious.

Every morning I check his Twitter feed to see what bombs he has dropped.

"Not presidential!" cry the press jerks, ignoring Obama's appearance with that woman who bathed in a tub full of Fruit Loops or his appearance on "Between Two Ferns" or his entertaining rap music stars with off-color lyrics performed IN the White House.

Spare me, media. I hope you all end up eating out of trash cans.

[JM Hanes]

Foo Bar:

That Wapo article is a perfect example of the sleazy journalistic practice of disguising rank hit job as "context."

In the December interview, Bannon presented the problems of climate change and the Islamic State as a binary option — offering Trump, in effect, the choice of fighting one or the other.

“Do you agree with the pope and President Obama that [climate change] is absolutely a path to global suicide, if specific deals are not cut in Paris, versus focusing on radical Islam?” Bannon asked, referring to the negotiations that eventually led to a global climate agreement in Paris last year.

"Offering?" "A binary choice?" Sheesh. More like a thought experiment that it might behoove more folks to entertain. Nobody really knows what alt-right really is or who's in charge of it, or whether it could even quality as a movement. Frankly, I think this putative phenom sort of started out like Pepe the Frog, but it's proving to be a really useful boogey-man.

This article also seems of a piece with the current narrative that Trump is a doofus in need of and/or susceptible to guidance from whoever today's designated Rasputin is supposed to be.

[jimmyk]

Most of my family is of the "Trump = Hitler" mentality, so the word has gone out: No politics at Thanksgiving dinner. Actually that decree came from my mother, who isn't even coming, but I would have requested it as well. There's just no way to have even a conversation when people are that irrational.

[jimmyk]

In case anyone missed it a couple threads back, the People's Cube dude was arrested at GMU for the sin of putting up some posters.

https://twitter.com/ThePeoplesCube/status/798922900266840065

GMU seems to be one of the worst offenders of extreme PC-ness. Surprised they haven't banished Tyler Cowen.

[Cecil Turner]

Note the only two gracious open minded people in the story are Trump supporters.

Well, yeah, but it's a little easier to be gracious when you win.

Someone who is bothered by "too many" CEOs coming from Asia is not only worried about illegal immigration.

Shoe still doesn't fit her, she's naturalized. And my brother, who works in the industry, says the prolific hiring of H1B Visa applicants is designed to hold down wages at the top programmer levels. There are different views out there, but I trust my brother on this one.

Good to see you back, Foo Bar. (Even though you're always wrong.)

[JM Hanes]

daddy:

I really loved hearing about how well the video of Trump's granddaughter has been going over in China. I would really love to see Shanghai, some day, more than Beijing, actually. I also LOL'd at one of the negative comments on it, courtesy of one user @Jason_ZFQ:

"The little girl's language skill is a result of Ivanka's education, nothing to do with Trump himself."

Hahahaha.....

BTW, when you mentioned your Dad the other day, I meant to tell you that I spent my impressionable teenage years in Spartanburg!

[glasater]

Tho not a Trump supporter I get the sense that dear leader TM is rather relieved the Hill isn't president :-)

[Cecil Turner]

I do like the tone of that article. Attacks in the fog, brother against brother (or sister, whatever), it's like just exactly another Civil War! And whose side do you want to be on? (Well, Lincoln was a Republican, so [Okay, you're overthinking this])

[Dave (in MA)]

Dear MSM,

Not only might Trump eat an occasional meal without having to put up with your presence, he also, not being LBJ, will probably take a dump without you being there to witness it.

[glasater]

If there were a high-level appointee in Obama's White House who had expressed views you find troublesome, it wouldn't bother you at all as long as Obama himself hadn't expressed the same views?

Obama wasn't running the country..STS..ValJar was. Technically she was the first female prez..

[Jim Eagle]

I am lucky, I guess.

We are going down to our home in Florida for Thanksgiving. It will be my first time back since June 2015. The works are well underway and the kitchen is functional but we are going to the club for Thanksgiving.

Just the 3 of us and we are all on board politically. The most boring Thanksgiving dinner anyone can have.

[henry]

Maybe this will cause a diet thread: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/15/north-korea-begs-china-to-stop-calling-kim-jong-un-fat.html

[JM Hanes]

One of my favs from the WaPo round-up, Daniel Traynor explaining his vote for Trump:

Because the part of America that grows your food, produces your energy and fights your wars believes the country needs a course correction.

That's where I want to be after Blue America's secession, too.

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

Posted by: Foo Bar | November 16, 2016 at 10:47 AM

uggg... about 40-sih percent of illegal immigration are visa overstays. Other above have been banging the H1 scams (did anyone read my link to the Indian couple charged in Ashburn?). I would add that student visas are also scammed-colleges get to charge 3x freight, plus up their diversity goals, and by substitution raise tuition for everyone, for the so called "best and brightest". And by inviting in the 3rd world they get to deal with meningitis outbreaks and anti-Semitism. Nor does this get into the ever expanding definition of what is school under a student visa.

[Old Lurker]

"Just the 3 of us and we are all on board politically. The most boring Thanksgiving dinner anyone can have."

I win. I win!

Mrs. L and I will be celebrating this TG as our very first, ever, alone. 40 some years.

The YL1 family is finally enjoying their now expanded family without any of us or our dogs underfoot and the last thing they need is any family members coming back to see them next week.

YL2 has fully adapted to Anonomom's warning that Intern Year at Mass Gen is "if I am not working I am sleeping" and her team divided up TG and Christmas and she will be working straight through TG. In return, she does get 24 hours for Christmas so Mrs. L and I will be doing Christmas in a hotel in Boston.

Ah the natural cycle of life!

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

those were all over the Johnson Center. defiantly some foreign students complained.

I could see giving them a ticket for criminal mischief, placing placards on the GMU sign is taking it a bit too far, but all one has to do is take a look at how poor Mr. George Mason gets dressed up through the semester, to see how ridiculous the school looks.

[Appalled]

Cecil:

Believe your brother on the H-1B visa -- it is an effort to keep developers wages lower, and provide a work class that can be more easily exploited. (H1-B folks have a far more difficult time moving from company to company.)

At a certain locally HQ famous company, there is a floor full of peole who are all H-1B visa. The nickname for the floor is "The Plantation".

As to the text of the article, I find it interesting that I have a set of friends that came down on all sides of the Hillary/Trump equation, and while the conversations can get a little spirited, we all are still able to get together. (I do have a brother in law not speaking to me because I refused to vote for Hillary, but he often finds reasons not to speak to me.)

[James D]

CT @ 11:56

True, it's definitely easier to be gracious when you win...but (generally speaking) the Dems and the left were pretty damn far from gracious back in November of 2008...

[Sue]

I have a friend whose mother hasn't spoken to her in over a year. One might think it's because she is gay and married a woman. Nope. She was supporting Donald Trump and so was her spouse. In the meantime, they have had a child that grandma hasn't seen. Not because she is gay. And not because she is married to a woman. She is a republican. And married a republican. Life is indeed strange.

[jimmyk]

As we've discussed, the H1-B issue is tricky. For one, these are generally technically skilled people with jobs, not immigrants coming here to get on welfare and produce future Democrats. Second, if the H1-Bs aren't allowed in, in many cases the companies can just outsource the work. In other cases (like my industry) the salaries are identical to what citizens get. Maybe DrJ can chime in on this....

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

did someone make a photoshop of the pajamaboy losing the election ...

...wear work clothes
... drink coffee
... shut up about losing the election

#Pepe

anyway, funny in my imagination.

[sbw]

The horselaugh — that unanswerable response to someone who says something beyond logic although grammatically correct.

“Bahahahaha!” [and then change the subject.]

It leaves no traction for others to respond.

--

“Bannon hates xxxx.”

“Bahahahaha! How did your Christmas shopping go today?”

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

defiantly -> definitely

yikes.

[lyle]

the Dems and the left were pretty damn far from gracious back in November of 2008...

And today's polite understatement award goes to...James D! ;)

[Appalled]

And today's polite understatement award goes to...James D! ;)

You forgot to mention he's a first-time winner. :)

[JM Hanes]

Advice which sounds like it would be fun to take, sbw!

[Porchlight]

Huffington Post - two papers in one!

[henry]

A funny vid from our Chitown Lurker.

[the generalisticly deplorable rich]

Posted by: jimmyk | November 16, 2016 at 12:24 PM

less so than meets the eye would be my guess.

Spectrum of all places had a large feature article regarding it.

If they are necessary:

1. Charge the company looking to hire one 10k per hire (as a fee, not a tax).

2. Allow the employee to move to a different firm.

Pretty sure the necessity would vanish.

[Captain Haiku]

Thanksgiving with progs
Many turkeys at table
Instead of just one

[Porchlight]

LOL, Captain Haiku.

Once again my in-laws cannot come to any group decision about what they will be doing, so I have a feeling I will cook a big dinner and then neither of my husband's brothers will show up and I'll just be talking to my ex-SIL about germs and allergies and what she heard on NPR the other day and the other stuff she always talks about.

But I won't care, because Trump won. :)

[Porchlight]

BTW, picking up the discussion from a couple of threads ago - I also love brandy Manhattans, so I think I am going to make some this weekend in honor of centralcal and JOM. Ridge Lytton Springs Zinfandel is always on the table for Thanksgiving.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/16/violent-anti-obama-protests-break-out-in-athens/

Looks like the tour isn't going as planned.

[Sue]

I have a long standing no politics, no religion during Thanksgiving and Christmas. And no not rooting for the Cowboys.

[TexasIsHeaven]

Regarding the MSM: Who in their right mind would believe anything those people have to say? Almost everything they write is made up out of whole cloth - it has no basis in reality. And the press is upset because Trump went to supper with his family and without them? He is not front and center holding their little hands while they malign him and write lies about him and his family? F them.....

[lyle]

Captain Haiku comes through again!

[sbw]

And no not rooting for the Cowboys.

But, but, but ... that’s politics and religion!

[jimmyk on iPhone]

Here we go again: St Paul cop charged with manslaughter over Philando Castile shooting.

[Dave (in MA)]

A funny vid from our Chitown Lurker.

Not particularly, IMO.

[rse]

I swear I think my son has managed to stay an extra day next week just so he can make sure the diva, whatever her political beliefs, is not learning to behave as an outraged twit while at college. She on the other hand has been standing up to him since she was quite young, verbally if not in height.

My sil thinks a month on antibiotics means I might still be contagious and therefore they will not be coming by. Only fortuitous outcome as I think she is nuts.

I have though ordered 5 pounds of bacon for the holidays, especially since my dressing recipe alone uses 1 pound cooked.

[jimmyk]

Charge the company looking to hire one 10k per hire (as a fee, not a tax).

FYI the legal costs involved in hiring an H1-B run around $10K. Then after three years they have to go through the process again to renew the visa. So roughly $15-$20K altogether.

[-peter]

Porch light Brandy Manhattan yum!!

[Porchlight]

peter, maybe centralcal will share her recipe. :)

I haven't made them at home in years. I found this one, looks old skool. Wisconsin content for extra delicious 2016 Victory Terrace points.

http://www.drinksmixer.com/drinkp16q431.html

[lyle]

My sil thinks a month on antibiotics means I might still be contagious and therefore they will not be coming by. Only fortuitous outcome as I think she is nuts.

This made me chuckle.

[lyle]

http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/15/jim-webb-for-secretary-of-defense/

Judges?

[Porchlight]

Noooooooo, lyle

[lyle]

More data to go in the soon-to-be burgeoning "You Knew This Was Coming" File:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/11/15/trump-obama-checks-balances-congress-column/93800152/?hootPostID=41c52f6a3342fc3b3e1c4e6bf5f2ecc6

[lyle]

One vote in... ;)

[maryrose]

Don't hire any democrats.
If Webb after voting in lockstep while in the Senate couldnt beat Hillary what good is he?
I have had my fill of democrats these past 8years .
They belong in the desert now away from power.

[Trollpital🏢]

These people need a psychiatrist. They might tell them wallowing in perceived victimhood, whether it be acting out, like overadvocating compensating, or feeling sorry for oneself - it is unhealthy and will just make them feel more unhealthy or, in the case of actual diseases, sicker. 👉 Move on.

[lyle]

Two votes in...

[sbw]

my dressing recipe alone uses 1 pound [of bacon] cooked.

I. need. that. recipe!

It would complement my Bacon Bourbon Old Fashioned.

[Stephanie]

lyle... nope. Make it a three fer.

[Old Lurker]

four.

[deus volt buccaneer morgan]

Nyet, non, no, nein

[Marlene]

We'll have a quiet Thanksgiving here in Florida. Maybe we'll go to the beach,I've never been to the beach on Thanksgiving. Maybe we'll go kayaking. One thing I know for sure,it won't be snowing! :)

[lyle]

My vote would be "nay" as well. I don't trust any D.

Move to call it unanimous against?

[Foo Bar]

Ig:

I don't expect, nor does any other sane person, an advisor to hold identical views as his boss.
Your penultimate sentence goes beyond being troubled by what Bannon said and uses what he said to implicitly refute what someone said about Trump.

I guess the views of Obama's former pastor matter, but the views of Trump's current chief strategist do not.

What do you suppose "it" refers to in the quote “It felt like a rejection of everyone who looks like me” ?

Are you so sure she's talking about Trump and Trump alone? Couldn't she be talking more broadly about the election, its consequences, the important people in the Trump campaign and in the incoming administration?

[Dave (in MA)]

Is TP eating my posts?

[Old Lurker]

Regardless of his party or politics, nobody as graceless as Webb was to W regarding his son deserves to have a seat in the cabinet.

[daddy]

BTW, when you mentioned your Dad the other day, I meant to tell you that I spent my impressionable teenage years in Spartanburg!

Cool, JMH.

I don't know the town at all, but he wound up going to Wofford College and was All American back in the mid 30's in Tennis and in Basketball, when the games were always like 19 to 20, and the strategy was working for the 2 handed set shot. It's quite a coincidence that my current co-worker went to Bob Jones University and lives in Greenville and knows Trey Gowdy well enough that he continues to rave about him.

Of odd interest, the book I'm reading, "Barney" is an obscure one I can hardly find on the internet: Barney: Journals of Harry Virden Bernard –

35 years ago my retired folks in Coastal North Carolina volunteered a lot to host Elder Hostels, and I believe the author of this book was one of the guest lecturers who came through. Born in Shanghai in 1912, she was the youngest daughter of the Sewing Machine Salesman, and after his death she gathered his journals and turned them into this book. My folks bought it as a present for me, probably in 1983, and had her autograph it to me. They must have sent it to me overseas as inside I found two of my military paycheck stubs from 1983 when I was a LtJg in the Navy over in Diego Garcia. Ha! (My paycheck was like about $300:)

Anyhow, I recall Dad somewhere along the line telling me I would enjoy reading it but I never did as I was lazy and reading other stuff, but recently I saw it under a pile of books in the garage and I dug it out and thought I'd do it on the Paris-Shanghai leg and besides enjoying it I feel as if I'm finally fulfilling an obligation I owed my Pop who has been dead now some 20 years. So its an odd confluence this trip of reading this book in Shanghai and of bumping into people from Pop's home town. A quirky but fun read tho' I doubt anyone can find it anywhere. It has a lot of interesting photos, and here's the sort of machine "Barney" was selling back in those days:
An interesting part in the book today was that his sales from his Singer Sewing Machine Sales counterpart in Indo-China suddenly stopped, so when Barney went south to investigate in about 1912, he found the guy, an Ex US-Army Officer, had gone native and, was training the Vietnamese peasants to be organized soldiers for a young revolutionary named Chou en Lai, so Barney had to fire the salesman and pick up the slack. What amazing times. Here's a sample of that as Narciso may enjoy it:

"About dusk on the 4th day of travel we arrived in Kunming.
Our Chinese representative met us there and took us in rickshaws to a small semi-foreign house. He told me that if I went to the magistrates office building I could get the information I wanted about Mr Lenton. In response to my questions he let me know that Bob Lenton was alive and well but would tell me no more.

So this was where Lenton lived. The house was dirty and uncared for and had a strange empty feeling. Chang found a houseboy doped on opium asleep in the kitchen. When roused he said "Long time no see Mr Lenton."Before we could question him further he disappeared.
It was dark now and there was nothing we could do until morning. My curiosity was now at high pitch. The town was silent as well as dark. The Chinese are too poor to buy candles or oil so they go to bed when night comes.

I had imagined everything under the sun about Lenton, even to wondering if he had been killed. What turned out to be the truth never even entered my mind.

The next morning we set out for the magistrates yamen. It was in a large compound on the edge of town. We did not have to consult him. Just beyond was a small army of brown clad soldiers. Drilling them was a white man whom I recognized as Lenton.

So this was what he had been doing instead of attending to the company's business. And all the while drawing a salary. Damn---I would give this buzzard his walking papers and not take long about it.

As I was the only other white man in sight and stood out like a freak at a circus, the eyes of the soldiers were all turned toward me. Lenton discovered me and dismissed the men.

There was a sheepish yet defiant look on his face when he joined me. I was so mad I wanted to hit him. I remembered what my company had advised about "keeping up with the political situation' and held down my temper. I would find out what was going on.

So I greeted him as though nothing had happened though he could not have helped knowing that I was hot under the collar. "Drilling an army, are you?" I tried not to sound sarcastic without much success.

"I---I should have let you know," he blurted.

There was no doubt about that. I brushed it aside. I pointed to the soldiers. "What army is that?"

"The People's Army." And now he looked proud as well as defiant.

I was getting madder by the minute. "Revolutionaries you mean. They almost dumped the train I was on off the tracks into the canyon. Nice work."

If I was getting madder he was too. "Good work," he said and there was a sort of contained fury about him. "The French conscripted thousands of Annamites (Vietnamese) to build that railroad. Didn't pay them enough to keep body and sole together. They died like flies."

I knew nothing about this.

He stared at me as if I were one of the hated French. "The French conscript the natives to work for a pittance on their vast estates while they themselves live in luxury. They'll find out. One of these days the oppressed will rise against the oppressor." There was a wild light in his eyes. He was staring at me.

Why stare at me? I was not an oppressor. Then I thought of what he had done and got mad all over again. "I'm not talking about the french, I'm talking about you. You've been drawing your good company salary and doing not one damn bit of work. In my book that's stealing."

He glared at me. "It's no crime to use capitalist money to advance the cause of freedom. I have no regrets."

"I have some regrets. Regrets that I didn't fire you sooner. You're done, finished, kaput." I strode away.

I wondered how much he was being paid. And what was "The People's Army?" I had no idea that this was a part of the great underground swell. While most men were going about their business of earning a living other men were at work changing the course of history. There must be other men besides Bob Lenton who were being paid. I was to discover the truth of this in a personal and very terrible way.

[Dorothy Jane]

Careful @10:35 Daddy, this might get blocked on Facebook as 'fake news." (wink ;)

[deus volt buccaneer morgan]

Meanwhile they arrested that. Former refugee in Egypt and guest at Bagram in the sudan

[Dave (in MA)]

I mentioned in a TP-swallowed post that at Thanksgiving, my wife is planning to wear her rhinestone TRUMP 2016 shirt -- should be interesting to say the least.