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November 09, 2016


Cecil Turner

I tell ya, just seeing the talking heads moping is worth the price of admission.


second like

Dave (in MA)

Yeah, the long run is a much easier call, because there'll be a recession eventually. Right Mr. Enron advisor?


Look at all the ASIAN dudes who think Krugman is somebody.


As I was saying, my black heart still wants Trump to appoint Michael Savage as Ambassador to England.

All right TM, what kind of tattoo are you getting?


how many telephone books is Krugman standing on?

Frau Wunderbar

Meh...Just another round-eyed ghost.

Captain Hate

Just shutting up is the path never taken by Kruggy.


Wow. Wish I could do a screen shot of CNN. 4 Journalists including Wolf Blitzer all standing and staring at the camera, and each looking glum and like death warmed over---not a glimmer of a smile on a single one of 'em.


CT, that's so true, these are the times when I force myself to watch and read the liberal newspeople, because it's so much fun to revel in their discomfort.

Captain Hate, belated Happy Birthday!

I deprived myself of most of the fun last night, because I was too chicken to watch. I wound up checking the results every hour, sort of expecting the Trump leads to melt away. By the time I went to bed I was still worried, wondering whey Wisconsin wasn't being called despite what looked like a comfortable lead. This morning I was astounded to see that Trump had even carried Pennsylvania!

I owe congrats to all the JOM'ers who were on board with Trump from the beginning. It's possible that any Republican could have beaten Hillary, but it's also possible that only Trump was going to be able to get it done. Doesn't matter, no one knows, and I'm just glad I saw the light a few weeks back (this way, maybe you guys will still talk to me).

Love seeing the market higher, looking forward to this very special presidency, going to try to catch up with everything I missed.

Frau Wunderbar

Didn't watch Typhoid Hillary! but did see Huma take her seat of privilege in front. For those who did not see any bruises, I noted that her pancake/foundation makeup was *very* thick. She most likely had less sleep than we did.

Dave (in MA)

When does the tanker truck with the White House pardon machine autoPen ink show up?

Frau Wunderbar

henry, Krugman is standing on Robert Reich's shoulders.


Kelly Ayotte has no one to blame for her defeat but herself. Her opponent, up by just over 500 votes, just claimed victory. I'm sure there'll be a recount but her dumping on Trump had to have made at least 600 people vote for somebody other than her.


lol frau!


Has Glenn Beck's head exploded yet?


Maybe the stock market is up because traders suddenly realized that companies won't be subject to the Clinton protection racket any more.


Okay, I'll admit it: I'm a sore winner. Grateful that Trump soundly beat Curb Dive but I'm sure as hell not conciliatory to the [redacted] press and the profusion of slander, lies, distortions, and overt hostility dumped on Trump voters. Further, I want Trump to drain the [redacted] swamp in the administrative state that's been weaponized by Zippy and all his corrupt appointees.


hrtshpdbox, it's good to be on the same side. What a ride it's been. :)

Here's an enjoyable read - Scott Adams's well-earned victory lap. I wish I'd kept better track of this now, but reading Adams's early takes on Trump really persuaded me to look at him differently. Scott's not joking about that Master Persuader thing.

Scott Adams: I Answer Your Questions About Predicting President Trump

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

That's the left all over Frau; standing on the shoulders of giants midgets.
Or maybe pygmies, so I can get a twofer of microaggressions.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Well, I have to take a nap. I am not used to such late nights.

Back this evening.


daddy, I agree. That was a winnable race - much more so probably than Nevada.

Still, I hope she contests and gets it, for the Senate's sake. Then she will owe Trump big time.


Quite possible, jimmyk. Don't overlook a ton of short covering as part of it as well.


Are these guys predictable or what?

Some reporter already asking Josh Ernest if Obama is thinking of ways to shore up his Climate Change policies before being forced out of office. Asks the same question about Climate Change multiple times.

Dave (in MA)

daddy, that's the conventional wisdom wrt Ayotte, but when you get a chance check out Trump's NH vote total and Ayotte's NH vote total.

Cecil Turner

Well, this is interesting:

As money from Koch-backed groups poured into other states, it ran dry in New Hampshire. Here’s how much the Koch network spent on each Senate candidate in the eight states from January 2015 through November 2016:

State Republican candidate Koch network funding
Florida Sen. Marco Rubio $3,646,059
Indiana Rep. Todd Young $2,464,202
Missouri Sen. Roy Blunt $1,254,193
Nevada Rep. Joe Heck $9,109,342
New Hampshire Sen. Kelly Ayotte $0
North Carolina Sen. Richard Burr $1,451,053
Pennsylvania Sen. Patrick Toomey $9,936,202
Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson $3,064,603
Source: Center for Responsive Politics

The Koch nonprofit Americans for Prosperity did not respond to a request for comment, but has indicated in other interviews that Ayotte’s support for Obama’s carbon emission reduction plan was behind their decision.

I'm happy to see cap-and-trade support has negative political effects. Not sure how much it mattered, but . . .

Jim Eagle

What Trump has done is a "Tor des Geants" politics. It was his energy and endurance that overcame the odds of 16-1 in the primaries, debates and the Presidential run. He was doing 3 a day for the last 2 months.

While Clinton and her team were hiding her medically induced lack of energy and endurance.


and here are over 2000 comments by angry Kossacks stabbing each other in the back. Kos starts the thread off by suggesting Bernie for DNC chair, he gets slaughtered.

It's delicious



Thanks Dave. Will try to. Up here on local talk this morning there are a lot of callers in to the morning shows ecstatic about trumps victory, but at the same time also saying they will never vote for either of our current 2 Senators again because they both said they would not vote for Trump.

My take up here is that Lisa Murkowski got elected mainly by Democratic votes, since the DEM running was a joke. Here's the final number from last night:

U.S. Senate


Lisa Murkowski (GOP) 110,226 44%

Joe Miller (Libertarian) 73,876 30%

Margaret Stock (NPA) 34,400 14%

Ray Metcalfe (Dem) 27,830 11%

Breck Craig (NPA) 2,004 1%

Ted Gianoutsos (NPA) 1,377 -1%


oh yeah, democraticunderground got nuked yesterday at 4:30 pm, they still haven't figured it out

also delicious


Jim Eagle

Obama's biographer, David Remnick:

"The election of Donald Trump to the Presidency is nothing less than a tragedy for the American republic, a tragedy for the Constitution, and a triumph for the forces, at home and abroad, of nativism, authoritarianism, misogyny, and racism. Trump’s shocking victory, his ascension to the Presidency, is a sickening event in the history of the United States and liberal democracy. On January 20, 2017, we will bid farewell to the first African-American President—a man of integrity, dignity, and generous spirit—and witness the inauguration of a con who did little to spurn endorsement by forces of xenophobia and white supremacy. It is impossible to react to this moment with anything less than revulsion and profound anxiety."

In today's New Yorker (natch).

Think there won't be some pre-Inaguaration mischief and post-inaguration sabotage?

h/t Insty

Dave (in MA)

Ayotte votes: 353,262
Trump votes: 345,379


Porch, thanks for the link @ 1:23 but per my previous comment, I am certainly NOT ready to do this:

If you helped elect Trump, you have a responsibility to calm the nerves of Clinton supporters who also have their country’s best interests in mind. Let’s all be worthy of our decisions.

Here's what, to my mind, is the quod erat demostrandum: Clinton supporters simply never had the "country’s best interests in mind."


Wow! Thanks Dave.

I still blame her for blowing it, but I guess I'm on thin ice in doing that.

Dave (in MA)

I don't disagree with you daddy, but that's a bit of evidence to the contrary I guess.
Someplace there must be a tally of NH ballots that left President blank but voted for mostly R candidates.



Note the source. Of course, there's this:

It’s a challenge for a Trump presidency,” says Jack Hoadley, a research professor at Georgetown University’s Health Policy Institute. “To get a true repeal and replace through, he needs 60 votes in the Senate.” That’s the minimum number of votes needed to block Senate action through filibuster.

Insty points out: ObamaCare passed the Senate through reconciliation with only 51 votes. What can be done through reconciliation can surely be undone through reconciliation.


we will bid farewell to the first African-American President—a man of integrity, dignity, and generous spirit—

He has zero integrity, he does not even understand what the word "dignity" means, and he has the meanest spirit of anyone we have ever seen in the Office of President in our lifetime.

They really do live in a different universe than us.

Frau Wunderbar

The real battle is just beginning. The left will organize to stymie all attempts at reform. I hope Trump's stalwarts and supporters will be ready to let the left know we have not gone back to being the silent majority. I hope we all become vocal and visible.

Jim Eagle

From my SIL in France:) If you don't understand French, scroll down for translation☺️

Donald Trump remporte l'élection présidentielle américaine.

Ce sera la première fois dans l'histoire qu'un milliardaire déménage dans un logement public abandonné par une famille noire.

Donald Trump wins the American Presidential election

It will be the first time in history that a billionaire moves into public housing abandoned by a black family!

Gotta rev up that narrative about mysogyny depriving It's My Turn of her rightful place at the table.
I'm seriously considering losing a bunch of Facebook friends by dropping this comment:

"Unless you voted for Sarah Palin, STFU."

Morning in America again

When the Lord answers one prayer, is it appropriate to come back with another request so soon?

If so, please Lord, put it into Pres-elect Trump's heart to ask Ralph Peters to be his Chief-of-Staff.


Ralph Peters to be his Chief-of-Staff.

Um...Ralph announced yesterday he was voting for Curb Dive.

Frau Wunderbar

HRC should really have worn one of her other carpy uniforms. That one did not project success and we know how successful the Clinton Crime Family Inc. has been.

I hope their theme song was played:

I am so slaphappy today. We are going to lunch with my brother and his wife at a German restaurant.
I may dance on the table.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Workmen outside so nap is delayed. Maube I will push through and go to bed early.

daddy, What I think that all of these liberals do is construct a movie character with desired characteristics and then put someone in the slot to fill it.

It's why they see Hilary as a "champion of women and children" and why they see Trump as Hitler.

Cecil Turner

Insty points out: ObamaCare passed the Senate through reconciliation with only 51 votes. What can be done through reconciliation can surely be undone through reconciliation.

That's Stephen Green, not Glenn. And it's also wrong. Funding for Obamacare was passed through reconciliation . . . Obamacare was passed with 60 votes. And cutting funding for the bill whilst proffering nothing in its place (when you hold power) has some obvious political drawbacks. Not saying it can't be done, but . . .

Old Lurker

Reposting from the other thread...

12:08 Cecil, regarding the nuclear option and extending it to repeal and replace Obamacare, you cite the comfy old line that the 60 vote cloture gives Reps cover for not accomplishing something because, golly gee, they might be held accountable for what they create.

I can guarandamnteeyou that, having given the GOP the WH, the House, the Senate and soon SCOTUS, the people who just elected Donald Trump are not going to stand still for the GOPe hiding behind some inside the club girly rule about something called "Cloture" since we all know the other side cares not a whit about that arbitrarily imposed rule much less any other laws or constitutional limits.

anonamom; formerly adorable, now deplorable.

OMG! I am still at 1:45---I'll never catch up, will I??

Just want to report that on my morning walk w a good EVANGELICAL friend--when she and her hubby came around, I knew we'd make it!---I saw mommas wearing Trump caps, flags a flying all over.
This is a neighborhood of 300+ homes, where mine was the only Trump sign.
Can we say Silent Majority???

I rode my cousins' and nephews' and their wives' fannies Monday and Tuesday morning, once I realized they hadn't voted yet in Michigan.
And I went to Mass yesterday, taking communion from my leftie priest.

Not taking total credit here, but I can live with the part I played. ;-)

It's only just hitting--the SC has been saved! At least for a while longer.


And cutting funding for the bill whilst proffering nothing in its place (when you hold power) has some obvious political drawbacks. Not saying it can't be done, but . . .

I've found that there's only "political drawbacks" when Rs do something the Ds (and the press, BIRM) don't like. Never such problems for Ds. Ever.

Obamacare was passed with 60 votes. And cutting funding for the bill whilst proffering nothing in its place (when you hold power) has some obvious political drawbacks.
Given that the bill passed is a crap sandwich which could only be made coherent with the executive pen and phone, I see lots of opportunity for Trump to rewrite the whole thing with his pen and phone.
Dorothy Jane

Best. Day. Ever. My Facebook page is completely crazy. The horrid, execrable flailing around the progs are doing is beyond absurd. All I can think about is how condescending they were in both 2008 and 2012. To a person they were all sanctimonious mewling, “oh, we all must come together now you silly Mittens people…” I am being kind instead of wicked and have not posted in five days and will not post until the dust settles. I will post a stuffing recipe on Thanksgiving possibly.


What I think that all of these liberals do is construct a movie character with desired characteristics and then put someone in the slot to fill it.

Miss M,

You know what I think?

I think that for the first time in forever we are going to have a President who goes in to a meeting with Bureaucrats who actually does ask "Withering Questions," and I can't wait until he does.



Given that the bill passed is a crap sandwich

You're a better person than I, cathyf, with your flair for circumspection... ;)


Dorothy Jane, a stuffing recipe for baked crow?

Cecil Turner

I see lots of opportunity for Trump to rewrite the whole thing with his pen and phone.

This is correct. The courts left lots of room to modify it through administrative acts (which Obama and his minions took advantage of). For actual repeal, however, they'll need to pass a law.

I think there's plenty of political appetite in the country for extensive modification (which after the election does not include morphing to government single payer). But it's "repeal and replace," not just repeal. My main point on all this is that even if it were possible to do it with a pen stroke, the resulting chaos would be unworkable. Hence it's not a simple thing to accomplish. And as far as I can tell, nobody has even been working on hammering out the devilish little details.


Trump has a plan, Ryan has his "Better" plan. Lots of plans around to reconcile in a budget if they wish.

Captain Hate

They really do live in a different universe than us.

Remnick may as well be a word processor infected with a virus. The garbage he writes is so laughable and easily countered one has to wonder if he even knows the definitions of the words he uses. It's red meat for the idiots who still read that worthless rag so he knows his paltry market.



Nothing we all don't already know but still a good read.


Just because:)

Martha Raddatz: (via Porchlight) "I don't know anyone who voted for Trump.”

Captain Hate

And as far as I can tell, nobody has even been working on hammering out the devilish little details.

I'd be surprised if that's true. Ryan is a wonky little guy, to give him credit for something, and I'd bet he's had staffers, his and those of other critters, diving into the details and figuring out alternatives.

Old Lurker

Never forget that to get Obamacare through the US Senate since it was a law which involved money and therefore had to originate in the House, the Senate first had to locate an already House Passed "Money Bill" still awaiting Senate Action. The Senate took that bill, erased every single word of the House Bill, replaced all those words with the Senate version of Obamcare still calling it by the original House Originated Name, passed it then sent it on to the House and Committee.

But for that blatant scam, the Senate would have had to await a House Originated Bill and then work on that version which would have killed it in the Senate. By this shenanigan, they crammed it through.

So Femall and their silly one sided rules of the club.


Verified by New Hampshire Sec of State. Kelly Ayotte loses her Senate seat.



I hope you can grin and bear the changiness.


Old Lurker

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, Kelley.

Cecil Turner

CH, I'm sure that's correct, they had a couple of alternative proposals back when they were first trying to repeal. But I doubt those would work now, at least without significant revision. I meant they didn't have anything current, which necessarily would have to comport with the incoming President's wishes.


Yes..those pesky details...

Next after taxes...

Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

Old Lurker

Cecil, it is so nice having you back!



That was McCain.


Correct sue. But the narrative and objectives don't change for some.


Counting down til you dump Trump.

Gird thy loins and reap the whirlwind.

common man

But the narrative and objectives don't change for some.

Typed without a whit of self awareness...

Cecil Turner

Thanks, but I'm running out of gas. I've got a seriously fouled up schedule. Cheers all.


We dumped feather passing instead.

 Robin, surrounded by sad today

Old Lurker,

I'm not about to forget how Obamacare happens, which is what i'I've said to all of my liberal acquaintances.

Setting precedents like that is generally something you rue.

Old Lurker

Bye Cecil.

JM Hanes


Still catching up on the last thread, so maybe this has already been addressed.

”On the Senate side, they have nothing near the 60 votes needed for cloture (which you'll recall is what let the Dems pass Obamacare). ”

That doesn't comport with my recollection. The Dems skirted that very 60 vote problem by going the reconciliation route, and I believe Republicans can reconcile Obamacare back out of existence, if need be.

Captain Hate

CT, it's good to have you back for discussions like this. If Ryan wants the Speakers job and wishes to be known as an effective one, he will suggest working together with Trump to get that done. It would be a major win/win for both.

Good riddance, Ayotte.

clarice b. for Brainiac


Old Lurker

Robin, and if you are not made to rue unilateral actions like that, then the other side wins everytime.

Trump should convene the Rep members of the Senate and ask them to suspend all those rules for one year so that the Obama laws, regs and EO's can be corrected in the shortest amount of time so that we can MAGA. Dare them to say no, based on Robin's "rue the day" remark above.

There is a line in a Kyle Swanson (Sniper) book I read last night where a good guy said "sometimes you just have to grab them by the balls and pull them in the direction you want them to go..."

That's the leadership I hope to see from Trump.

anonamom; formerly adorable, now deplorable.

Cecil, you are incorrect about Obamacare being too complicated to get rid of.

There have been physicians working with Rs since Obamacare was passed with a plan to replace it. They had it all ready to go for 2012.
Unfortunately, clean toga Romney failed to make that happen.

I do believe Tom Price has it in his drawer.

Block grants for Medicaid to the states. HSAs, insurance allowed to cross state lines. Tax credits. Uncouple it from employment.

Jim Eagle


I know this may sound sophomoric but I have worked on projects where we had to take over from the client's mismanagement and rescue it by disassembling that mismanagement and replacing it with something from our experience works. Not saying it can be done to 100% perfection in government but then is the opportunity to try something different than to say, it can't be done.

I worked 35 years for a company that made billions each year because it never took "it can't be done" as an excuse but rather an opportunity.

Thomas Collins

To determine whether Ayotte blew it, we'd need to know how many Trump supporters blanked the Senate ballot or voted for Hassan because they felt betrayed by her, and how many voters would have been with her even if she supported Trump. She certainly didn't outpoll Trump enough for one to conclude that Trump was a drag on her.

Old Lurker

JMH, no, the Senate did get 60 votes for their Obamacare Bill which they then sent to committee to reconcile with a different Obamacare Bill passed by the House. But the trick was that they needed to have their own bill to get to reconciliation then back for an up or down 51 vote approval, but until they scammed an old approved money bill, they had no way of drafting once to reconcile since all money bills have to start in the house. (my 2:36).

Either way, they broke the rules to get their way. Same with approving Federal Judges...they just waived the filibuster rules.

Captain Hate

I'm just glad I saw the light a few weeks back (this way, maybe you guys will still talk to me).

I always talked to you if you include yelling at you when you were being a pest. Most of us took a while to jump on the bandwagon so it was just a matter of the light going on rather than when it happened.

JM Hanes


Ah, I see my mistake. Obamacare Senate rollcall vote

Jim Eagle

I had to turn on Fox to see if Shep was teary-eyed or smarmy.

Guess what he is both:) What a doofus.

"Lets all lick our wounds and repair our fractures".

Go ahead, Shep. I have none of those.

Old Lurker

So I see Trump spent about half as much per vote as Clinton did. And you wonder why the Uniparty hangerons and MSM were so against him.

Captain Hate

Seems like the light has gone on here too:


anonamom; formerly adorable, now deplorable.

I am totally Fox Business only.
Way too many squishes on Fox. I am all about living in my own bubble. Go Lou Dobbs!

And I could NOT stand Megyn for the fifteen or so minutes I watched last night. What the heck happened to her?


There are ways to deal with the adverse selection problems by making "administrative" changes. I've been screaming about pre-existing condition exclusions all along, and some cleverness can be brought to bear here.

Back when we were all discussing constructive ideas, it was brought up that in Switzerland they get around the pre-existing-condition problems by having insurance on a 3-year renewal cycle. So if you cancel your insurance, and then get cancer or have a heart attack or get diabetes 6 months later, you are on your own for the next 2-1/2 years paying your health care bills.

When Obamacare was passed, we all thought that people would only be allowed to sign up as-of January 1st, and had to make the decision as-of December. So if you didn't sign up, and then get sick (or pregnant) then you are stuck until the next year. (And if you get pregnant right away, then you will have given birth before your next opportunity to sign up for insurance.)

Somehow -- and I think that this is partly the Obama pen-and-phone and partly a result of the chaos of the first year's signup -- people are being allowed to sign up and drop off of health insurance on a month-by-month basis. And, if I'm following things correctly, the government has been forcing insurance companies to pay out for services delivered before the person actually signed up for the insurance.

Group health insurance has always had the concept of life-change events triggering eligibility for new health insurance, but otherwise you have to wait until the next "open enrollment" to change coverage. So a baby is born, the parents have 60 days to add the kid to their plan, otherwise they have to wait until the next open enrollment. Same with marriage, adoption, deaths, etc. changing dependence status.

It appears that the ability of insurance companies to force people to wait until the next open enrollment period is totally within the Executive Branch control. If Trump is willing to push it, he can probably make the open enrollment periods more than a year apart, too. (Although a year might be enough to cure the adverse-selection temptations of all but a small gambling minority.)

I wish AliceH were still here. She did a bunch of research before the first Obamacare year on the consequences if she were to drop her insurance. And she was assuming that if she dropped insurance then that was an irrevocable decision until the next year.

Also, the bill that got passed was such a mess from a technical point of view. (They were going to fix stuff in reconciliation, but then they lost their 60th Senate vote.) So it might be true that somehow a whole bunch of prior law (like the 1996 insurance portability schema) is still actually in force and can be relied upon if the Executive decides to enforce it.


I am totally Fox Business only.

Me Too A'mom. 100%.

Old Lurker

Screw Fox...they chose their side and they can live with being the other CNN. Femall.

I meant what I said here hours ago. For the first time in my adult life I watched no tv coverage of the elction at all...I simply read the 1000+ comments posted here up to about 3AM. Relying on what breaking news my "known and trusted associates" have found important to share with JOM kept me more than in the loop and with a much lower blood pressure.

Like we say to Cap'n every Sunday "You watch and report so we don't have to!"

Fox spent $30M for that set plus all the star pay and it got this eyeball for about three minutes. Ditto the others.

Somebody's bidness model has been disrupted...


Fox Business was awesome last night. We settled there after watching some CNN and MSNBC salt.

I think Hugh Hewitt made me more mad than any of the libs though, when he tried to jump on the bandwagon and pretend he knew Trump would win from the start because We The People.


What the heck happened to her?

let see, $20,000.000 per year?

Jim Eagle

I am also FBN but just wanted to see the Shep reaction. LOL.

Liz Claman and Trish Regan were terrific last night to set up the rest of the coverage. And Liz MacDonald knows how to cut to the chase. I think Cavuto has a pretty independent operation there that even the Murdoch's know better to screw with.


It is official! Maine is the only New England state with a Republican Senator and Congressman. Yay us! Hubby and my brother (who lives in NH) have been texting each other about which state now has more moonbats. My brother can't be happy today.
Again,thank you Massachusetts for ruining northern New England,especially NH.


Li'l flashback:

clarice b. for Brainiac



I don't know anybody who watches Martha radish


I am also FBN. Last night at some point,Dr.Carson was on with Cavuto and Dobbs they were all laughing and smiling. Dr. Carson was a wonderful surrogate. I hope he's in the cabinet.



One of my College daughters texted that on Campus last night, numbers of the so tolerant Left were out publicly in a mob running around hollering "Death to Trump," and "Eff Trump," and all the rest of it. What a valuable lesson to see that hypocrisy up close. Maybe you actually can still learn something worthwhile at the Ivy's:)

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