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March 27, 2017


Cecil Turner

I think it more likely that they dissembled about rhe real targets and probable cause to get the FISA warrant, Cecil.

I'm withholding judgment. So far the allegation from the most sympathetic source (Nunes) is that they were picked up in "incidental collection"; which means they were spying on foreigners and collected some transition team communications. That's hardly surprising.

The leaks are a different matter. (Though that stuff is hard to investigate and prove, though not to politicize, as the Libby case amply demonstrated.)

Captain Hate

That kid plays a mean oven door.

Arthur Blythe RIP

Old Lurker

Cecil, what's to prevent some punks in a cubicle from listening in to something they shouldn't even without a FISA warrant? I wonder how many FISA warrants got applied for after somebody had already listened to something first? Since listening in is done is secret, who protects the rights of the target except for the good will of the agency and the FISA Judge?

And that's just FISA. There was a story making the rounds where some prison had illegally taped hundreds of conversations between inmates and their lawyers.

Once the tool is in the wild, it will certainly be used other than intended.

I consider any tool under the control of Brennan, Clapper or Jarrett "in the wild", but that's just me.


As suggested by my earlier comment, I have a moderate fear of not waking up when I'm put under anesthesia, so I'd consider being awake if it's not too long or gruesome. The short-acting drug they use for colonoscopies and the like (propofol?) is less intimidating, even though I think it was the one that Michael Jackson OD'ed on.


Great point Captain at 03:16, on the use by the press of the word "Wiretapping" which as we've all learned last week would only be used by an unsophisticated moron like Trump. Here BTW is the New York Times headline on this case from:

29 November 2016: New York Times: Brooklyn Prosecutor Accused of Using Illegal Wiretap to Spy on Love Interest


29 November 2016: New York Times: Complaint in Brooklyn Wiretap Case

Can't wait to see their headline on this story when they finally post one today or tomorrow.


It was clear who had leaked to miller and Novak, but that wasnt the point of the exercise.

Cecil Turner

Once the tool is in the wild, it will certainly be used other than intended.

No doubt a problem, but so far at least there are very few reports of it being misused. (And if these latest prove out, they'll be a new level.)

The flip side of the coin is wartime exploitation of enemy communications. The obvious example is Midway (arguably the most decisive US victory in WWII, and possibly in history). I'd love to have a tool that only monitors the enemy, but doubt it's possible.

Clarice Feldman

I suppose we should all wait for David Corn to tell us if the leaking was purposeful and harmful.

Clarice Feldman

Of course without seeing the FISA application we can't be sure, but a pretextual basis is not out of the question for me.


Hi, CT!

I'd like to think the FISA court judges and prosecutors are a cut above average (many/most of the warrants require a signoff by the AG, IIRC). I'd also like to think they'd almost certainly be caught if they tried such shenanigans.

The reported FISA Judges refusal to sign off on the first request to do "wiretapping" against Team Trump jibes with your comment, but the reported approval of the second request after rejiggering the request makes me think they are no different than anybody else.

Captain Hate

daddy, they do that stuff all the time and then get all huffy when we notice it.

Congrats on that nail biter yesterday. Imo Roy saved the season by briefly switching to a zone and arresting Kentucky's momentum.


"Devin Nunes met source of surveillance info on White House grounds"


New Thread!!!


Getting caught up after the knee replacement surgery. I'm on the Civil War side, and have been for sometime.

FYI, my drug protocol was as Anonmom described. A pre-op cocktail of Gabapentin, Tylenol 500 and a low-dose a aspirin. Spinal block for the surgery and a happy, don't remember drug. Later IV pain killers. Was discharged the day after surgery with the wound covered by an Aquagel bandage (recommend.) Have already discontinued Oxycodone. Ambulating slowly. Overall, feel pretty good and hubby is a great nurse/coach.


"Brooklyn Prosecutor Charged with Faking Judges' Signatures for Illegal Wiretaps"

I am surprised the FEDS charged her. I thought they would just employ her and put her in the same section as the Louisiana presecutor and the lawyers who prosecuted the Alaskan Republican Senator. You know the lawyers who were censured a number of times by Judges.

Old Lurker

Beyond that though, Daddy, is the reported "fact" that FISA refuses only a few of the thousands of warrants requested. One story said something like a dozen were rejected and 10,000 issued. The law of large numbers would suggest a whole bunch which perhaps should not have been granted, were.

And Cecil, if the snooping is done in secret, I wouldn't expect the see a lot of reporting of it. Some Peeping Tom's are stupid enough to get caught, but there are many more of them which don't.

Cecil Turner

The law of large numbers would suggest a whole bunch which perhaps should not have been granted, were.

Probably. But foreigners make easy targets, and I'd expect most of them to be approved. The safeguards are almost all only for US persons caught up incidentally, and they almost certainly wouldn't be the targets of the warrants.

And Cecil, if the snooping is done in secret, I wouldn't expect the see a lot of reporting of it.

There are reports of internal audits. But yes, that's part of the problem.

Old Lurker

Cecil "The safeguards are almost all only for US persons caught up incidentally..."

Tru Dat. Why, there should be a law which requires the names of all such innocent US Citizens be masked in the reports of the foreign conversation...and while we're at it we should make it a felony for disseminating such records without the masking in place!

:-) Glad you are back, Cecil.

Captain Hate

IT people see stuff all the time they "shouldn't" see. The point is to be professional about it and don't go around flapping your yap about it.

Old Lurker

And Professional IT people will, Cap'n.

But punks are punks, crooks are crooks, pervs are pervs, and Statists are Statists.

Miss Marple the Deplorable


2. Power move: watch the Congressional Black Caucus

The healthcare fiasco taught Trump he can't accomplish big things with just one party. He's looking to work with Democrats but Trump's inner circle anticipates total opposition from Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. Some in that circle, however, believe there's an opportunity to go through the Congressional Black Caucus, a Democratic group Trump met with last week.

Sam Geduldig, a Republican lobbyist at CGCN Group, has been working with African-American lobbyists on just such a project.

"There is a path for bipartisan victories in Congress," Geduldig says. "A coalition of black caucus Democrats and Republicans is kryptonite to rich white liberals. Imagine a tax and infrastructure bill that provides tax cuts for Republicans and new pipes for Flint, Michigan. How do Stabenow and Peters [Michigan's U.S. Senators] justify voting no?"


web hubbell was a lawyer?


i agree, Clarice - and provided sworn declarations by someone in doing so.


We agree to disagree.
I intended no snark in my comment it was just a point of inquiry.
I find theories that the main players in the Healthcare bill passage didn't want it to succeed not credible in my opinion.
A bridge too far for me.
Interesting that Leary says he won't filibuster.
Don't worry McConnell will nuke them if he has to and they know it.


Should be Leahy.

Captain Hate on the iPhone

Didn't Webb meet Rodham at the Rose Law Firm where they both were employed?


The latest MSM talking point re Obamacare is that it's just fine, but Trump is going to sabotage it.

Seven Ways the Trump Administration Could Make Obamacare 'Explode'

From the family emails.

Old Lurker

"Don't worry McConnell will nuke them if he has to"

Probably true, but he needs to get 51 votes to change that rule, and changing the rule is not the same thing as an individual senator not filibustering. While they may well go along with Mitch, it is no secret that there are more than a few R Senators who really really do not want to destroy the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees.

Old Lurker

Wasn't Webb in fact her boss there?

But then, Bill was Monica's boss too, so there is sort of a balance in the force, right?


Hillary was always the boss of Webb Hubbell.

Old Lurker

:-) maryrose


Hey all,

Here's something joyful that I may have shared before, but I just came across it again. Aaron Copland's "The Promise of Living" from The Tender Land (featuring the "Zion's Walls" melody I was talking about a few days ago), set to some old films.

Watch all the way to the end, especially if you love dogs.


Jack is Back!


Welcome back. Sometime do a daddy and share your flight locations.

I can remember back in the day, we had lots of young airman kids who went through the security backgrounds and ended up sharing carp with relatives and even in pinochle games which got them caught up. This is nothing new. Everyone wants to share something they know but you don't. Its a Washington tradition.

Just saying.

Old Lurker

"Its a Washington tradition."

It is a human condition.

Jack is Back!


Yeah! But amplified 100% in DC. In NY, its money but in DC its information that is the gold standard.

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