Don't Know Much About History, Snopes Edition

Snopes "fact-checks" a rhetorical turn by HUD Secretary Ben Carson:

Did Ben Carson Liken Slavery to Immigration?

The retired neurosurgeon and former presidential candidate made a controversial comment about immigration and slavery in his first address as HUD secretary.

OK, Carson provoked outrage with this:

That’s what America is about. A land of dreams and opportunity. There were other immigrants who came here in the bottom of slave ships, worked even longer, even harder for less. But they, too, had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great-grandsons, great-granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land.

Clearly Carson understood they were slaves, but immigrants?!?

Carson presents a defense and Snopes weasels towards a 'guilty' verdict:

“I think people need to actually look up the word immigrant. Whether you’re voluntary or involuntary, if you come from the outside to the inside, you’re an immigrant. Whether you’re legal or illegal, you come from the outside to inside, you’re an immigrant. Slaves came here as involuntary immigrants but they still had the strength to hold on.”

(For what it’s worth, “immigrant” is typically defined as “a person who migrates to another country,” with the word “migrate” implying a voluntary action. Standard English usage does not classify the forcible abduction and involuntary transportation over national boundaries of human beings, lacking any choice or intent to live in their new location, as a form of “migration.”)

Closing with a parenthetical aside? Weird. But I can help!

John Kennedy, a name still familiar to Democrats and progressives, wrote a pamphlet in 1958 titled "A Nation Of Immigrants". Later (8/4/1963) it became a NY Times guest editorial. In his usage, everyone (except Native Americans) is an immigrant from somewhere else:

Ah, well, that was 1958 and Kennedy wasn't woke. But Barack Obama echoed JFK in a 2015 naturalization ceremony (h/t Charlie Spiering):

Just about every nation in the world, to some extent, admits immigrants. But there's something unique about America. We don't simply welcome new immigrants, we don't simply welcome new arrivals, we are born of immigrants. That is who we are. Immigration is our origin story. And for more than two centuries, it's remained at the core of our national character. It's our oldest tradition. It's who we are. It's part of what makes us exceptional.

After all, unless your family is Native American, one of the First Americans, our families—all of our families—come from someplace else....

[Skip and]

So life in America was not always easy. It wasn't always easy for new immigrants. Certainly, it wasn't easy for those of African heritage who had not come here voluntarily and yet in their own way were immigrants themselves. There was discrimination and hardship and poverty. But, like you, they no doubt found inspiration in all those who had come before them. And they were able to muster faith that, here in America, they might build a better life and give their children something more.

I should add that Obama showed some consistency. Back in a naturalization speech in 2012 he said this:

We say it so often, we sometimes forget what it means -- we are a nation of immigrants.  Unless you are one of the first Americans, a Native American, we are all descended from folks who came from someplace else -- whether they arrived on the Mayflower or on a slave ship, whether they came through Ellis Island or crossed the Rio Grande. 

Lest you think Obama stands alone in remembering JFK's construction, here is a Jan 29 2017 post from the reliably progressive Daily Kos:

We are a nation of immigrants. Unless you are Native American, you have ancestors who came here from somewhere else.

...

But this country has a checkered past when it comes to immigration and the treatment of those who do not look or worship like the majority of Americans.

There are Chinese, Irish, Japanese, the children of slaves brought here against their will, and others. Chinese immigrants came here to build the transcontinental railroad. They looked different, they ate different foods, and had different customs. From 1850 on, discriminatory laws were enacted against them. In 1882, Congress passed the Chinese Exclusion Act.

...

The Irish were the victims of stereotyping—as alcoholics, or as being controlled by the ward bosses. The Japanese were forced into internment camps during World War II, a black mark on our nation’s history that we should never forget, and never allow to happen again. The treatment of African Americans in this country has been horrendous. Volumes have been written on this, so you would think at this point in our history we would be living in a world where race did not matter. But we don’t.

Believe it or not, 48 comments and none denouncing his equation of slavery and immigration. Selective sensitivity?

Just one more - maybe it's a Kennedy thing, but here is historian David Kennedy writing in The Atlantic in 1996. He is quite clear that immigrants includes slaves.

My point? maybe Ben Carson is more familiar than the Snopes team with the viewpoint adopted by JFK and echoed through the years down to Obama.

(Maybe).

Comments

[Point of view.]

Your definition of 'immigrant' looks suspiciously like 'emigrant'.

[rse]

It's not about the facts. It is about how to turn any comment by anyone with ties to trump into proof the country is in big trouble if he stays at the helm.

[GUS]

Just got here!! Is this the FISTING thread??

[henry]

The problem is Dr Carson points out that since 1865 or so, they haven't been slaves. BLM doesn't like losing that victim status. Soros pays snopes to maintain that victim status. Thus blather ignoring all history to support today's (paid for) feels.

[Underground.]

My favorite serf, Beth, has found you.

[lyle]

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/republicans-cave-on-obamacare/

Thread topic meld...

[rse]

henry-I met Price literally when we were the only two in the elevator when he was speaking on healthcare a few years ago. The head of the think tank hosting that event last week tweeted pictures of himself with a group at the WH "meeting on healthcare."

I said uh-oh to myself when I saw that as it meant the offered fix will still want to stay with the concept that taxpayers have an obligation to meet all human needs. Healthcare is supposedly a human need.

We have had discussion of the Bradley F and they are a big player in who gets money to start a think tank, be a fellow, or produce 'conservative' scholarship. Everything I have found tracing the Marxist Humanist template, which is what heritage, aei, cato, and their state affiliates push on domestic policy, is always a variation of this Marxist Humanist template.

It feels like they like to cover a Middlebury type event with Charles Murray in part to mislead people into what kind of Marxism is the true threat in the 21st century. It's truly sickening and I can only hope many of the people involved are not clear why they are being told to psuh what they push.

Personally I am beginning to think these think tanks are engaged in RICO type behavior to get taxpayer money. At least the mafia is upfront about their rackets.

[GUS]

So now that IrelandDave has come over to the GOP, maybe he can "splain" to us, where he got his former "talking points" and marching orders.

RIGHT??

[lyle]

From that link:

In January, President Obama predicted that the GOP would only end up tweaking ObamaCare, and then call it something else. "It may be called something else. And as I said, I don't mind," he told George Stephanopoulos. "If in fact the Republicans make some modifications, some of which I may have been seeking previously, but they wouldn't cooperate because they didn't want to — make the system work, and relabel it as TrumpCare, I'm fine with that."

Conservatives scoffed at Obama's hubris the time. But it looks like Obama was right.

If this is the Republicans' idea of an ObamaCare replacement plan, it would be better to leave ObamaCare in place, and let Democrats take the blame when it inevitably fails.

I miss this guy's humility and grace more every day. How 'bout you?

[henry]

rse, that came through loud and clear in the press conference.

[Frau Ratlos in 'Cleodorf]

The Snopes cat demands better food and toys.

I have failed to find the Freeper article on that site. Any hints will be appreciated. (Three syllables, sounds like, movie, etc.)

[GUS]

Simple question: Do these REPUBLICAN DOUCHE BAGS think THIS is what AMERICA sent them to D.C. to do?? OBAMALITE?

[GUS]

Spicer's press conference is hilarious.

The MFM is so full of TARDS it's impossible to believe.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Because of the IC surveillance topic on the last thread and the pede comments, I looked up the "viewing" technology on my Vizio Smart TV and turned "off" the spying culprit in Settings.

On this 'disable' page, C-Net also has a synopsis of the latest WikiLeaks download, re the IC and their scary antics.

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/disable-vizio-smart-tv-spying/

[henry]

The singular thing I have not seen addressed in all this is the prices charged by the care providers. This is separate from the insurance. if consumers saw that the same thigna t the local clinic cost $20, but $500 at the ER... they would use the ER less. Yet all Price talked about was they didn't have the cash to pay wherever they showed up, so tax credits and regulated plans.

To the extent this subsidizes pre-existing conditions (same as ACA), this will drive insurance prices up at the same time the subsidies drive provider prices up. Exactly the same fail mechanism as ACA.

[henry]

Missed a step in there. Invisible prices with subsidies mean the price mechanism of competition cannot work.

Insurance subsidy for pre-existing conditions continues as well.

[GUS]

Henry, it's about the MARKET setting prices, NOT GOVT, not monopoly, not about BIG HOSPITAL. Until the SWAMP CREATURES understand that they DO NOT UNDERSTAND. We'll get Gubmint problems, fixed by Gubmint.

[Clarice Feldman]

Good job, ™.

[Clarice Feldman]

Pls read Surber:http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2017/03/obamacare-repeal-rocks.html

[henry]

I've read that C. I am unconvinced.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Power is back.

I cannot comment on the press conference because no internet when it was going on.

I am not an insurance expert so have to go by what others with more knowledge say. Unfortunately, opinion seems to be divided so I am left in a quandary.

Meanwhile, I have decided to make pork chops for supper.

[henry]

Meanwhile, I like this guy. Audit the government, not job creators.

[GUS]

I agree Henry. Surber sounds good, but I'm not convinced either.

[Clarice Feldman]

well, take your concerns up with Ryan. Maybe he can persuade you.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Does anyone besides me think that with the revelation of the CIA capabilities which have gone out into the wide world, perhaps someone should ground Air Force One and the VP's planes until some sort of defense is put in place?

[GUS]

Clarice, I'm in Sensenbrenner's district and I have already called him. I love your attitude, and I trust your judgement.
Henry has probably already called Ryan, Henry and I are in adjoining counties and the district line is close, but Ryan is south of me.

[GUS]

Clarice, I beg your pardon, you grew up in Milwaukee. I forgot for a moment. I grew up close to you.
I'm in far Western Waukesha County now, and Henry is in Racine County.

Sorry about that, you're quite aware of our geography.

[Clarice Feldman]

Nah, Gus, I'm old and addled and keep forgetting which of you lives in Ryan's district.

[henry]

Clarice, so does Ryan at times (i kid).

[GUS]

Henry, I'm sure Ryan has forgotten which of US lives in his district. But you'll remind him.

[Old Lurker]

Ryan is a Master of the Universe. How quaint to think he lives in but one district somewhere in the boonies...

:-)

[DebinNC]

If Donald Trump likes the new bill, which he clearly does, I'm not worried at this point. The Dems own the BOzoCare turkey, so if they want to wrap themselves in its funeral shroud during its death throes, especially the 10 senators running in 2018 in states Trump won, "Full speed ahead!"

[Jim Eagle]

What a bunch of horse pucky!

White Europeans were indentured in America before the first slave ship ever showed up. Our education system continues to do us no service in the form of history. Even after the slave trade began in the mid 1600's. white europeans came here as indentured servants.

Of course, if you're white its not slavery but indenture. Slavery is only exclusively for our black brethren. More PC BS that needs to be cleaved out of the history books with a sharp machete.

Now were those unskilled white europeans who were indentured, immigrants? Leaves out a lot of nationalities and ethnicities beside African-Americans.

[Thomas Collins]

Snopes is simply being petty. Undercutting the notion that America is a land of opportunity for all, no matter how they ended up here, is an idea the Snopses of the world want stamped out.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/03/07/trumps-cavalry-opens-entire-gulf-of-mexico-to-oil-gas-leasing/

[narciso]

Ah you reminded miss marple in transformers they hacked air force one and they though it was a provocation by the russian or the Chinese.

Speaking of the former podestas lobbying for sanctioned Russian banks seems to have slipped the press's mind such as that exists

[GUS]

Hey Old Lurker, I saw some DEMOTARD comment that RYAN was from "some small district in Wisconsin".
All districts have the same population as best can be established. The average dumb f(redacted) thinks flyover country has less population per district. Not so.

[cheerleader]

Jack, not only that, but tribal societies practiced slavery.

[Sandy --First 100-- Daze]

7 March 2017

Dear President Trump,

"A Better Way" Ryancare™/obamacare-light is worse than doing nothing. SAD !

Renaming subsidies to tax-credits, foregoing across-state lines competition, forgetting about tort reform is not repeal. BAD !

The House proposal, Ryancare™ -- "A Better Way." NOT !

Sincerely,
Sandy Daze

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Hannity is interspersing the "LOST" CIA cyber attack arsenal (and tying it to the Trump/Russia 'false' shadow gov't attack) with the insurance bill news - all of this stuff is reaching fever pitch.

[Clarice Feldman]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/q-a-how-the-house-plan-to-replace-obamacare-would-affect-consumers-1488910888

what the Ryan plan would mean to consumers.

[rse]

Deb-education I know extremely well and healthcare fairly well. Because of his background, trump is relying on the same think tanks that misrepresent the effects of their public policies and who benefits to tell him who would make a good advisor and how what they push on him will work.

I know he is wrong on education even though his heart is in the right place (unlike hillary). Pertinent to ryan beyond his Moneyball for Govt superstar status are his ties to the Ethics and Public Policy Center think tank. They are pushing healthcare as a human right that the Catholic faith should be on board with as a matter of their vision for society.

Honestly I think ryan would turn his back on everyone of his constituents before he would defy these pushes that make support for healthcare for all a matter of faith.

[cheerleader]

I listened to his speech from start to finish, and he said things that I just knew were going to cause shrieking.

They live to catch people in their words.

[cheerleader]

I scanned some lefty comments today. They are believing that impeachment is imminent.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

What I want to know is, will Obamacarelite pay for WeeDavey's lobotomy?

Secondly where do they find a bone saw with enough cutting capacity to access his cranium, the zoo vet?

[GUS]

How is it that OBAMA killed Bin Laden, but OBAMA did not WIRETAP/SPY on TRUMP.

Funny huh?

[Old Lurker]

Cheerleader "I scanned some lefty comments today. They are believing that impeachment is imminent."

We really are living in Bizzaro World, aren't we?

[DebinNC]

Hmm.. Wasn't aware of the Catholic view of it as a moral imperative, rse. Very bad news as recent history shows the current and next Speaker will almost certainly be Catholic Pelosi or Catholic Nunes or McCarthy.

[Jim Eagle]

Could the Better Way proposal be a red herring that leads to status quo without a Conservative altnerative (ala Rand Paul)?

[Clarice Feldman]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-embraces-gop-obamacare-plan-our-wonderful-new-healthcare-bill-143149269.html

[GUS]

The Nunes press conference is astounding.

The MFM MOTHERFUCKERS seem to think the investigation is about TRUMP. It's about whether OFUKWAD abused his power, and whether LIEretta Lynch was spying on TRUMP.

The MFM will NEVER get it.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

They'll get it one of these days; good and hard.

[Sandy --First 100-- Daze]

rse,

With all respect - I certainly don't know education (nor healthcare, for that matter) - nearly as well as you; would not begin to argue that.

But, I am not so sure that ryan's faith animates his belief in how to proceed with healthcare.

Rather, I think he's been bought off.

Perhaps I misread you:

Honestly I think ryan would turn his back on everyone of his constituents before he would defy these pushes that make support for healthcare for all a matter of faith.

I don't think his Catholic faith has anything to do with healthcare. He may hide behind that faith (although I have not ever seen any reference to his using Catholicism as a basis for his healthcare policy beliefs), I think what animates ryan is something else entirely.

My 2¢

[Account Deleted]

"Of course, if you're white its not slavery but indenture. Slavery is only exclusively for our black brethren. More PC BS that needs to be cleaved out of the history books with a sharp machete."

JiB: I would agree were you able to provide a shred of evidence that indentured servants were *systemically* classified by law as property with their entire families.

And, can you provide any evidence to show that the owners of the indentured servant's *debt* was legally sanctioned to stud and breed the spouse of the indentured individual and therefore secure rights of ownership over offspring?

[Beasts of England]

GUS - I played a 1976 Guild D-25F today at lunch. Nice guitar.

[DebinNC]

Speaker "That's not who we are" projects moral superiority every time I see or hear him. He reeks of it imo.

[cheerleader]

Sandy Daze, I thought Bannon's job, as a Tea Party veteran, and his top advisor, was to tell Trump what you wrote to him.

[Sandy --First 100-- Daze]

As to Catholicism in America...

I don't speak for Catholics, only myself, but I bet there are other Catholics who will agree with me saying that these shepherds don't speak for me (a cradle Catholic):

These US Catholic Bishops Promise to ‘Disrupt’ Trump

and, the

Modesto Statement
excerpt:
"International Week of Action May 1-7, 2017 We are calling on people in the U.S. and across the globe to stand together against hatred and attacks on families during a week of action May 1-7, 2017."

[rse]

Sandy-then he shouldn't be a featured speaker at the Ethics and Public Policy Center events if he doesn't agree with their approach that the Catholic faith pushes a communitarian obligation to meet these needs as a human right.

The Bradley Foundation that funds so much of this Marxist Humanist agenda while pretending it is 'conservative' is based in Milwaukee. That link I put up within the last few days on the Erroneous Autonomy conference is in the same vein. This is not something I go looking for, but it is something I continue to trip over. I was just working yesterday on the implications of the 1998 Council for Civil Society report as it was being cited.

Turns out Mary Ann Glendon and Robert George were both on that Council and they do see this as a moral issue and part of their faith. George is on the Board of the Bradley F as well as the Chair of the Board of the Ethics and Public Policy Center.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Sandy Daze,

It looks to me like St. John Paul got rid of liberation theology in Latin America only to have it re instituted in the United States by Pope Francis.

I dislike these charities, whether Catholic, Lutheran or Baptist, which use benevolence as a disguise to undermine out nation while the leaders seem to draw immense salaries.

It's a racket, and one the Church should not be associated with. It's shameful.

[DebinNC]

Congress has more Catholics than ever and they're trending Republican. We need more Catholic Newts and fewer Catholic Ryans imo.

[Beasts of England]

What are, if any, the legal issues if Loretta Lynch herself signed the FISA request(s)?

[rse]

In 1998 UNESCO adopted a Universal Ethics Frameworks that is attempting to make our responsibilities to meet human needs an integral component of being alive. Unfortunately the leadership of many religions is fully on board. That particular think tank is one of them and they love to feature Ryan and he loves to be touted by him. That, along with what I get confronted with in papers, was the basis for my remark. I am not the one trying to assert a push to make this a component of what it means to be a Catholic believer.

I regularly have readers just heartsick about what is clearly in documents I provide links to. I can't control the world. So I just try to bring the pertinent facts forward on as many radar screens as possible.

I also just finished Seedbeds of Virtue about two hours ago tracking this kind of thing. Glendon was one of the editors. From 1995.

[Jim Eagle]

KK,

Don't have time to give more definite history since I am under a clock on something else right now. But this wiki is pretty concise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servitude_in_the_Americas

Up to you to decide if the "white guys" and their families were subject to any of the cruelities that the African immigrants were subject to. If you find its not the case please share.

My pont is, if Carson can call "slaves" immigrants then why can't we call "indentured Europeans" immigrants?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

MATT DRUDGE‏Verified account @DRUDGE 8h8 hours ago

FACEBOOK counterfeits DRUDGE REPORT! THESE ARE NOT ME! Fake news? Ha! It's FAKEBOOK.
https://www.facebook.com/mattdrudge/
https://www.facebook.com/thedrudgereportofficial/ …

[DebinNC]

I could well be misremembering, but someone posted the FISA law language here several days ago, and it said the AG was required to sign any FISA application. The DOJ National Security Division got the FISA okay on their third try, so it seems reasonable to assume that Lynch had signed and vouched for it.

[Dave (in MA)]

What an amazing coincidence that all of the DAY WITHOUT A WOMAN iconography and signage looks similar to Soviet era propaganda.

[Jim Eagle]

And KK, its beside the point since Obama has referenced slaves as immigrants 11 times and he is the smartest man in the world.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/03/07/11-times-barack-obama-compared-slaves-to-immigrants/

[Beasts of England]

Thanks, DebinNC!

[Old Lurker]

WaPo says about the new CIA data disclosure "U.S. intelligence officials appeared to have been caught off guard by Tuesday’s disclosure."

That's to be expected when you spend all your time listening in on domestic political opponents, huh?

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Obama's special buddy, John Brennan, CIA, is rather scarce these days....wonder how legible his fingerprints are in the Trump/Russia frame-up. I've never trusted him since his involvement in the State Department Hillary/Obama/McCain passport snooping incident in '08...

http://lidblog.com/passport-snooping-firm-run-by-obama/

[narciso]

Benedict was the one that trimmed the hedges, but he didn't use bonus x

[DebinNC]

GA was founded by debtor prison inmates summarily shipped out, as releasees were causing rising crime in London and George II wanted to get rid of them.

[Another Bob]

BeenThereDoneThat | March 07, 2017 at 02:57 PM

Turning that setting off will do not a thing for you by way of eavesdropping protection. The hack would certainly be smart enough to undo that.

You need to remove the microphone. Entirely. As in cutting the wires.

[Old Lurker]

To see Brennan is to trust him not.

[Jim Eagle]

Just when you think the left can't jump a great white shark, well you're wrong.

https://www.theamericanmirror.com/mediaite-10-year-old-flash-racist-hand-gesture-posing-trump/

Of course, the kid is white, from a Christian school, in Ooooooh Alabama. Of course he is a racist.

[Janet 🚬]

What an amazing coincidence that all of the DAY WITHOUT A WOMAN iconography and signage looks similar to Soviet era propaganda.

Dave,
That phony internment sign you posted yesterday got me to thinking.

Dems have to put up phony signs to scare people.

Trump was elected because of REAL signs like - "Going Out of Business" & "This Plant is Closing".

[Account Deleted]

From the wikipedia: "Although experts do not agree on the causes of the decline, some possible factors for the American colonies include changes in the labor market and the legal system that made it cheaper and less risky for an employer to hire African slave labor..."

Hiring enslaved Africans? Contradictory.

As for mistreatment.... that isn't the defining construct of institutionalized slavery.

Referring to human beings pressed into bondage and sent to a foreign land as immigrants is like saying Girl Scouts and whores are the same because they both sell their wares on the street.

I think Carson is off-base. But indentured servitude doesn't even come close to the systemic norms of chattel slavery--- that's my point. And I made it in reference to the "PC" comment you made. (Not offended by it. I'm merely contesting it. ;) )

Take care. I gotta get back to work too.

Kev

[narciso]

The fact that's it fronted by a plfp member asma odeh the organizationdclead operator wadi haddad was a kgb asset has a little to do with it, dave.

[Clarice Feldman]

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/322799-house-intel-panel-sets-date-for-first-russia-hearing

Hearings begin March 20

[Account Deleted]

"And KK, its beside the point since Obama has referenced slaves as immigrants 11 times and he is the smartest man in the world."

Jack--- it isn't beside the point. Obama is a lazy thinker who politicized everything. I know you are speaking in jest here.

But it's worth belaboring the point of how political debates pimp "slavery" and conflate immigration into it in order to bestow some kind of mantle of moral authority onto an entire class of human beings who don't deserve to be so elevated as to be given unequal protections under law.

The entire BLM BS is based on the slavery meme, as you know, and encourages "descendants of slaves" to kill cops with impunity. That's the net effect of Obama's bestowing this mantle of moral authority on black-skinned people....the hell with the content and it's all about color and a complete misrepresentation of history.

Any serious student of the pre-founding history of America *KNOWS* that enslaved Africans were anything but immigrants.

Chit...I said I was goin back to work. DAYUMMMM!

;)

Kev out.

[Frau Ratlos in 'Cleodorf]

Unwilling immigrants
The Scots who were ordered off their rented farms were rounded up by English "landlords" and dropped in NB and Nova Scotia against their wishes fit the description.
Germans who would have chosen to stay in their homelands came to the insecurities of America rather than be seized by a Hessian prince and rented out as canon fodder. They, too, were unwilling immigrants. The Hessians who were forced to become soldiers either fought or were executed. Some lucky ones hid out in the forests of North and South Carolina till the war was over. Their names are documented.

K-Kid - No to your specific question; however, the 'masters' of indentured servants exerted complete control; sexual predators had a field day.

The sexual predators of Virginia found many opportunities among indentured servant girls during the seventeenth century. The journal of John Harrower described free and
easy fornication with female servants in Virginia. Especially high rates of prenuptial pregnancy and illegitimacy among English female immigrants to Virginia was in part due to this cause. There is evidence in the records that some masters deliberately impregnated their servants as a way of extending their indentures. (David Hackett Fisher's "Seeds of Albion" -Male Predators and Female Breeders p303)

[Dave (in MA)]

Sorry Janet.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

KK,

No doubt that Africans were brought here against their will and subjected to horrifying abuses.

Seems to me, however, when you deny them the status of immigrants that maybe it puts them in a class that is subservient. In other words, you assign them as inferior because they didn't come here voluntarily as other immigrants did, because even indentured servants signed a sort of contract. (Exception would be prisoners shipped to Georgia.)

I don't like this assigning of class of immigrant because it is another version of victimhood, which is poisoing our culture right now.

Maybe we should assign "voluntary" adn "involuntary" immigrant titles and let it go.

Don't know, but I think we get nowhere arguing about this.

[Janet 🚬]

No, Dave. I didn't mean anything bad.
I wouldn't have known about them if you hadn't shown us.

Like the protesters showing their butts in Chicago...I think it is good to show America how nuts the left has become.
I shared it on FB.

[Clarice Feldman]

Heritage and Cato not happy with Ryan's proposal.

[narciso]

Just one example

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ebac285a-7421-11da-ab91-0000779e2340.html?ft_site=falcon&desktop=true

This was the group Carlos the jackal ran with initially

[maryrose]

OL:
So true.
Obama administrative Stratton didn't do anything right and were constantly sidetracked with pursuing the wrong goals and by their hyper partisanship.
Will not comment on the Ryan posts except to say no one knows what is inside each person religious beliefs or the way they choose to live their life.
I would not presume to question anyone's Catholicism or degree of following its principles.I will say most converts seem to be great examples to we who were baptized Catholic soon after birth.

[narciso]

David yallop spent much of his book rubbishing all critics of Carlos, who according to one lefty south American radical, still has significant influence somewhat like Lopez rivera

[maryrose]

Stratton is the word that doesn't belong.

[henry]

Ryan believes government is the answer to our problems, just needs a "Better Way" of organizing government.

Reagan said government is the problem, not the solution.

I stand with Reagan.

[Janet 🚬]

It looks like it is time to refer to Brian Williams' daughter as 'porn star Allison Williams'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4285654/Allison-Williams-strips-X-rated-scene-Girls.html

[Marlene]

An example of forced immigration is the Acadian expulsion. "Le Grande Derangement."

[Porchlight]

Well my friends, what do you think of these Wikileaks revelations?

[Frau Ratlos in 'Cleodorf]

Miss Marple - As you know, your Scot ancestors and mine did not all *chose* to emigrate to the English colonies. In the Ulster area, they were hounded as loud and nonconformist Presbyterian trouble makers. For many, emigration was a way out of the debt-encumbered lives of poverty that had been thrust on them by English overlords who had forced them to move from Scotland to Ireland. I don't call any of that voluntary.
YMMV

[daddy]

Josh Earnest Won't Deny Obama Admin. Spied on Trump Campaign

If Martha Radditz was a real reporter she'd be asking Josh Earnest if he'd prefer to be in Leavenworth or San Quinten.

[lurkersusie]

NYU gender-swaps Trump/Clinton debates. Audience surprised at T's likeability. “Now I understand how this happened.”
https://t.co/9JVtVoEcqV

We heard a lot of “now I understand how this happened”—meaning how Trump won the election. People got upset. There was a guy two rows in front of me who was literally holding his head in his hands, and the person with him was rubbing his back. The simplicity of Trump’s message became easier for people to hear when it was coming from a woman—that was a theme. One person said, “I’m just so struck by how precise Trump’s technique is.” Another—a musical theater composer, actually—said that Trump created “hummable lyrics,” while Clinton talked a lot, and everything she was was true and factual, but there was no “hook” to it. Another theme was about not liking either candidate—you know, “I wouldn’t vote for either one.” Someone said that Jonathan Gordon [the male Hillary Clinton] was “really punchable” because of all the smiling. And a lot of people were just very surprised by the way it upended their expectations about what they thought they would feel or experience. There was someone who described Brenda King [the female Donald Trump] as his Jewish aunt who would take care of him, even though he might not like his aunt. Someone else described her as the middle school principal who you don’t like, but you know is doing good things for you.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Speaking as one whose Highland ancestors came here to escape being drawn and quartered and having their heads displayed on London Bridge,
I claim involuntary immigration as well.

Gosh, Marlene, you reminded me of having to read that long poem "Evangeline" which was so frustrating in its plot devices (How many times did she JUST MISS Gabriel?) that I lost all sympathy for the Acadian diaspora until I was well into my 30's!!

[henry]

The key concept that Carson got right is however our ancestors got here, we all have the same aspirations for a better life for ourselves and our children. No one here now was enslaved or indentured in the US in their lifetimes. So the victim status of slavery doesn't apply to people who were not slaves regardless of the status of their ancestors. That strikes me as healthy.

(Tribes, reservations, etc... not familiar enough to say).

[Beasts of England]

Top men, OL. Top. Men.