A Whinge Too Far

What kind of a world are we living in where haters can toss around phrases such as "Asian salad" with impunity? A NY Times guest writer wonders.

Based on the reader revolt in the comments section I would say the consensus answer is "this world and get over it". My fave is from David in Australia:

Funny how it is OK to rail against the phrase 'Asian salad' as being overbroad and disrespectful but in the same piece multiple references to a 'Jewish deli' seems OK. Jews, like Asians, reflect a great diversity of cultural backgrounds so numerous that they wouldn't easily fit on a menu; painting them into one group with a single broad brush, it could be argued, also fosters the same kind of bland, disembodied generalisation the author condemns.

Perhaps we simply have to accept that American cuisine in general is rife with culinary appropriation due to marketing convenience, rather than reflecting any sort of underlying political agenda or institutionalised disrespect for cultural nuances.

Anti-semitism on the march amongst progressives! Left unexplored - why did we tag the French with those fries? 

BONUS QUESTION: Has the Times decided to supplement their All-Trump Outrage du Jour coverage by trolling their readership? Bold!

I CAN QUIT ANYTIME: Chris Bray from LA reminds us that the struggle is real:

Bonnie Tsui has spoken to an issue of deep importance, and I feel that we must put a stop to the cultural genocide that we so casually call "lunch." Recently, I was served a "hamburger" at a restaurant with counter service, and I inquired of the staff to determine which person in the kitchen was deeply immersed in the native culture of Hamburg. Upon learning that no one in the kitchen even reflected the presence of any German culture at all, I simply wept at the cultural assault I had witnessed. And then they had the audacity to ask if I still wanted the so-called "French" fries, which, I assure you, were in no true sense Gallic. We must not surrender in this fight. Nothing has ever been more important.

 

Comments

[Threadkiller]

Last page

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2017/04/a-whinge-too-far/comments/page/99/#comments

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

I finally found the video of Tillerson's speech. It's about 81/2 minutes, and is on the State Department Twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/857983577115447296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconservativetreehouse.com%2F2017%2F04%2F28%2Fapril-28th-2017-presidential-politics-trump-administration-day-99%2F

[Captain Hate]

The NYT has a lot of in house experts on tossing salads.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Well, shoot, I goofed up. HERE is the correct link to Tillerson's speech:

https://twitter.com/StateDept/status/857983577115447296?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconservativetreehouse.com%2F2017%2F04%2F28%2Fapril-28th-2017-presidential-politics-trump-administration-day-99%2F

[henry]

TM, don't tell the guy, but the "secret sauce" on that burger is "Russian" dressing and I doubt any tsars were present.

[Wise guy]

An epic thread of topical importance

Next up: does Trump like cheese?

[The Infamous Ignatz]

I prefer the term Oriental Salad or, when I forget my anti-xenophobe pills, Filthy, Little, Yellow Bellies Salad*.

*A phrase I once heard (minus the 'salad') on a straight up WWII newsreel describing some action in the Pacific.

[Captain Hate]

Here we go:

http://wjla.com/news/local/grand-jury-returns-superseding-indictment-in-inauguration-day-felony-rioting-case

[Dr Weevil]

I once served a Frenchman French toast: he found it totally alien and didn't much like it - and I make good French toast.

[DebinNC]

Trump is supposed to be speaking today at the NRA convention at the World Congress Center in downtown Atlanta. My hubs is attending with two friends. I just called to see how it was going and when Trump was speaking. Answer: "We don't know" ... I just it's wise to keep the crazies in the dark for security purposes, and what a reminder of the dangerous legacy BOzo created and continues to feed.

[narciso]

Upon reflection guevara pere was more like tom Ayers, that Fidel's a carpetbagging robber baron type, both Fidel and two of his leading opponents one of the president of the medical school class, and another an accountant, came out of the same hothouse university culture.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Ignatz,

In my childhood I remember watching old Bugs Bunny cartoons where there were stereotypes of Japanese soldiers with buck teeth, slanty eyes, and speaking in pidgin. I am sure they have all disappeared down the memory hole, but I know I saw them.

[henry]

The Senate approved a one week CR. no shutdown until next weekend.

[narciso]

What is there still to settle, you see why encourage the shock collars?

[Jack is Back!]

Actually, French Fries are Belgian and called Frieten (Flemish) or Fritte (French) and appropriated by the French. Chicken Masala, the British go-to-dish after closing the pubs, is another food appropriated from Indian cuisine but is 100% British culinary invention.

Or we do like we did with the hot dog and change its appropriated name, Weiner or Frankfurter so as to not offend the German sensitivities.

Didn't Herb Caen invent Irish coffe on a layover at Shannon airport one time?

[The Infamous Ignatz]

They're still around, MM.

[Jack is Back!]

Dr Weevil

It's called "pain perdu" or Lost Bread, in French:)

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-100-days-pueblo-20170427-story,amp.html

This is a good article. Someone at the LA Times went to talk to Trump supporters in Pueblo, Colorado.

They are all glad they voted for Trump.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Regarding cultural appropriation, Indiana place names reflect immigrant settlements.

Here are some Indiana town namesso you can see what I mean:

Berne
Versailles
Swiss City
Paris
Milan
Geneva
Lebanon
Warsaw
Valparaiso
Brazil
Delphi

I don't know whether this reflected the settlers' ancestry or simply using a name they had reading a book, but there are a lot of small towns with foreign names.

Of course, many get the Hoosier pronunciation, so Versaille is pronounced Verr-sales.

[matt, deplore me if you must]

Irish soda beard not made in Ireland is culturally inappropriate.

Calling him the Hamburglar is raacisst!

[Jane]

TM,

Now that's just dumb.

[henry]

Same here Miss M. We have New Berlin, Norway, Wales (oddly taken over by the Irish), etc.

[Jane]

Ex Dem, I'm transporting this from the last thread because I really find the conversation interesting.

Jane - as a young man in the UK i loved the USA, but it wasn't until i lived here, and studied, that I came to understand how much its constitution and bill of rights were the real basis for why.

Exdem,

I studied all that stuff in college and it certainly didn't have the same impact on me as during real life. I stopped voting for any democrat ever when a democrat state senator lawyer friend of mine said "it is okay to lie under oath if it's just about sex". (ref bill Clinton) Since the entire legal system is predicated on the oath that was it for me.

I remember looking at Griswald and Roe v Wade and seeing how the Court created a right that doesn't exist. At the time I was pro-choice, but it truly pissed me off - mostly because those are state's issues not federal ones. And if the feds usurp state issues it always takes longer for people to accept them. Thus the ongoing craziness about that issue.

I remember when the MA SC passed the law saying gay marriage was legal. Amy was very upset because she thought all it would do is alienate people - as it should have been passed by a state vote, not the court. When people were ready for gay marriage they would vote for it.

I think I've always taken free speech for granted, but those days seem to be threatened now.

[Momto2]

I didn't check for a new thread!

If anyone is looking for a sweet little story to savor over a late lunch or an afternoon coffee - I recommend this one!

(warning: it will make you hungry for chicken salad and/or pimento cheese!)

http://seandietrich.com/greenville/

[rse]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/pentagon-names-2-army-rangers-killed-in-afghanistan/article/2621570

22 and 23.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

http://wjla.com/news/local/grand-jury-returns-superseding-indictment-in-inauguration-day-felony-rioting-case

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Momto2,

That was a great story. Those everyday heroes are what made this country. I wish the media would cover more stuff like that.

[Frau Rechtschreibung]

"Weiner Wiener or Frankfurter "

FIFY - Huma's hubby [yeah, right] either mispronounces his name or misspells it. Take your pick. JiB knows that in German Wein = wine and Wien = Vienna.

An express train that originated in Frankfurt was nicknamed the "Flying Frankfurter" which made for a few jokes when the Germans still laughed.

[narciso]

Something to consider:

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/04/a-theory-of-trump.php

[glasater]

Speaking of French toast..

I knew a great chef who made his French toast with pancake batter. Bread dipped in to it.

Dear leader TM is angling for a food/recipe thread :-)

[Marlene]

The state of Maine appropriated names from all over the world. Norway,Paris,Denmark,Naples,Poland,China,Peru,Belfast,Dresden,Frankfort,Sweden,NewSweden,Stockholm,Mexico,Belfast,Edinburg,Calais,Limerick,Moscow,Lisbon,Lebanon and Belgrade. I probably missed a few. That doesn't include the English place names known in most New England states.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/04/28/president-donald-j-trump-announces-key-additions-his-administration

Quite a few names here - I haven't gone through them all yet.

[Marlene]

Sweden,Stockholm,Mexico,Peru,Belfast and Belgrade. Calais,Sorrento,Limerick,Lebanon and Moscow. Dresden,Frankfort,Lisbon,etc.

[Frau Rechtschreibung]

"Russian" dressing and I doubt any tsars were present."

henry - why was I told to watch out for Russian hands and Roman fingers?

[Frau Rechtschreibung]

Momto2 - the Greenville story made me reach for a tissue.

[henry]

Frau, LOL!

[lurkersusie]

Ivanka Trump in Berlin - There was no booing of Ivanka - Politik Ausland - Bild.de

At the “Women20 Summit”, there was in fact a moment during the panel discussion when the audience began murmuring. Panel moderator Miriam Meckel asked Ivanka whether she was speaking as the First Lady – in Melania Trump’s place – or as the new advisor to the President. Ivanka replied in a disarmingly honest way: „This role is quite new to me, it has been little under 100 days.” She said that she would be happy to bring what she learned here home with her and that she would discuss it with her father.
She also said: “I am very proud of my father. Long before he came into the presidency, he has been a tremendous champion of supporting families and enabling them to thrive.”

At this point, there was some unrest in the audience. There was no booing or heckling at all, however.

http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/ivanka-trump/berlin-visit-there-was-no-booing-for-ivanka-trump-51469066.bild.html?wtmc=twttr.shr

[Threadkiller]

German Chocolate Cake?

http://www.snopes.com/business/names/cake.asp

German's..

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Marlene,

I find it interesting why things are named the way they are.

My favorite story is about a street in the town of Franklin, Indiana. It is a short street which ends at a stone archway to a park, constructed in the 1920's.

The street is called "Champ Ulysses" and given the stone arch, I am almost certain that some WWI veteran suggested the name based on visiting the Champs de Elysee" in Paris. They just didn't spell it correctly.

[Frau Rechtschreibung]

rse - the two young men killed Afghanistan won't get their pictures in the nation's leading newspapers. Thank you for bringing them to JOM.

[Clarice Feldman]

It's too easy to make fun of these twits--let them eat each other..

[narciso]

Like whis chagoury's orchestration against Cruz its all narrative.

[Dave (in MA)]

I make french toast with italian bread. Pancake batter instead of eggs doesn't sound too appealing.

(Auto-correct tried to get me to capitalize "italian" but it didn't care about "french")

[henry]

Demint out at Heritage. Pushed out by GOPe or simply bad at the CEO thing? Politico doesn't care as long as it can create dissent in the ranks.

[mad jack]

OL: Looks like your nice little island just got a little nicer. J(ust) F(or) Kerry has moved to Chilmark on MV.

[Frau Oxfordkomma]

TK - not news to foodies. Black Forest cake, however, went down the Rhine, crossed over to America, and landed on our hips, er lips.

[Old Lurker]

Good Riddance to him too, Mad Jack.

[Dave (in MA)]

Sweden,Stockholm,Mexico,Peru,Belfast and Belgrade. Calais,Sorrento,Limerick,Lebanon and Moscow. Dresden,Frankfort,Lisbon,etc.

You can tell they're from away if they pronouce Calais "cal-ay".

Berlin MA: "BERlən".

[mad jack]

Too much winning yet,OL? :-)

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

White House is saying President Trump's speech to the NRA should begin around 1:30.

Don't know if he will stay on that schedule, though.

[Frau Oxfordkomma]

Bus stop in Long Beach, CA is/was June-uh-pair-oh.
I believe Chicago has/had Go-ee-thee Street.

[James D]

Politico doesn't care as long as it can create dissent in the ranks.

If I were a politician or a manager of any organization in DC, I would write it into everyone's employment contract that speaking to anyone from Politico, at any time, for any reason, on or off the record, even if it's just to give directions to find the restroom, is an immediate firing offense. No warning, no second chances, instant termination.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

My favorite street name of all time is in Louisville, Kentucky.

Billy Goat Strut Alley.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

I never warmed to Jim DeMinit, and I cannot tell you why. I know he's very conservative, but for whatever reason, I just didn't much care for him.

Maybe Heritage is going back to how it used to be, more think-tankish rather than political.

[Frau Oxfordkomma]

"Democracy Dies in Darkness"
The opinion page at the WaPo (before it faded to welcome oblivion) looked like the Daily Kos. I've never seen such a collection of anti-Trump/hate Republicans/kill Bannon. Is this how Bezos intends to kill democracy ?
Pfui!

[Jack is Back!]

English muffins?

Try ordering one in England.

[narciso]

That shenon piece, was interesting as was his tome on the assassination, got is at best generally incompetent and their failure to flag oswald is symptomatic.

[Gentlejim]

My hometown name, Michigan City, IN, was appropriated from our neighbors to the north. I don't know how Michiganders feel about it. Maybe I'll ask one on my next traffic stop. ; )

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://www.facebook.com/POTUS/videos/1323568577712579/

Link to President's NRA speech on Facebook. It hasn't gone live yet.

[narciso]

The problem with bezos is taking them seriously or even literally, the corriera Della serra in Berlusconi era was the same way.

[Clarice Feldman]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TRUMP_OFFSHORE_DRILLING?SITE=MYPSP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-04-28-12-37-03

[Buford Gooch]

Jane at 112:33
Very powerful comment. Thank you.

[Jane]

"At the “Women20 Summit”,"

Imagine the backlash if they had a "Men20 Summit".

[Buford Gooch]

12:33

[jimmyk]

It's like Michael Wolff said: "The NYT front page looks like it's Germany in 1938 every day."

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/07/the-post-millennial-generation-should-worry-democrats/#ixzz4fUQz6yhB

[narciso]

Actually their courage of Germany at that time was quite reserved.

[DrJ]

I don't know how Michiganders feel about it.

Even though I am thoroughly Californicated, I was born and raised in Michigan. I always figured that Indiana had so little to be proud of that they wanted to incorporate the glory of its neighbor to its benefit. :)

(MrsJ was born and raised not too far from Michigan City!)

[Appalled]

A Workday at James D's (Inspired by his 1:22)

"Boss, I'm so sorry, he just ran around in the hallways, and the he just...like a dog."

"He's a journalist. A Politico journalist.That's lower than a dog."

"I've never seen a son of Adam act that way. Not after they shed their diapers."

"Did you tell him where to go?"

"Well, of course I did. Straight to the devil, I said."

"Well, of course. But obviously he needed a bathroom."

"Yes sir, but you said.."

"And exactly right, too, son. Take the rest of the day off after you find someone to clean this mess."

[donald]

Today is the first round of the Georgia high school baseball playoffs.

I got McIntosh and Thomas County Central.

I got it goin on man.

Y'all have a nice day.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Dr J,

Then how to explain Indiana, Pennsylvania?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Alas, time for a grocery run.

[Porchlight]

Small world. We just helped Karl Rove at the library desk. He was checking out some books. He usually has his research assistant do it. Not sure my colleague who was checking out the books recognized him - either that, or she was too professional to mention it afterwards.

I gave him a big smile and he smiled back. He probably doesn't get many smiles on campus. I think he's writing a book about the Founders. I'm not a fan of a lot of his opinions but he saved us from Gore and Kerry and that counts for something.

[Jane]

Thanks Buford. That's a very nice compliment.

[DrJ]

MM,

That speaks volumes about the glories of PA, now doesn't it?

[Buford Gooch]

Speaking of out of place names of towns, there is a town in Illinois named Normal. In Illinois, yet.

[Account Deleted]

"I don't know whether this reflected the settlers' ancestry or simply using a name they had reading a book, but there are a lot of small towns with foreign names."

MM--- I looked up Valparaiso IN and "how it got it's name."

Named after a Commodore (Hoosier) who commanded a war ship off the coast of Chile in the War of 1812 (who knew!)... "Vale of Paradise" is Valparaiso in espanol...

Valparaiso IN is in Porter county, the namesake of the illustrious commodore.

Here's a humorous site on Indiana towns with humorous names....and their pronunciations.

http://hoosierinanity.blogspot.com/2007/06/indiana-towns-with-unusual-names.html

[rse]

porch-back when he was still at wh and the postmistress' child died suddenly (not young but around 30) he showed up the next morning to help sort the mail and keep shop in her absence.

nice man. after his divorce he just started renting out his beach house.

[Manuel Transmission]

The little town I was born in was originally called Stillwater, but when the Northern Pacific RR came through, they made them change their name because the RR didn't want there to be any mistake on shipping to Stillwater MN. So they messed around and ended up picking ... Columbus. Pfft. The locals called it Sheep Dip, because they complained that the whisky tasted like it. The bar they drank in was the Atlas Bar which has liquor license #1 after MT became a state and it is still there.

Back in the mid 80s, I was doing a project in Scotland and discovered there is a Sheep Dip whisky and that it is quite popular in many remote places. We had a gift bottle for about 20 yrs until the gifter came to visit and we killed it in one sitting.

[jimmyk]

Actually their courage of Germany at that time was quite reserved.

I know you meant "coverage," but "courage" works too. Not only was their courage quite reserved, it was non-existent.

[henry]

from our Chitown lurker:

For Frau: Chicago indeed has Goethe St, on the North side, pronounced Gert-huh, as it should be.

[Porchlight]

That's a nice story, rse. Thanks.

[narciso]

Autocorrect, I'm going the notes wink used in 1944, that used the times.

[jimmyk]

Then how to explain Indiana, Pennsylvania?

Or Wyoming, Michigan, for that matter.

As for Valparaiso, I've been to Valparaiso, Chile, and it's stunning--colorful old houses built against the hills right on the Pacific. I'm sure Valparaiso, Indiana is similar. :)

[Account Deleted]

ManTran--- I was six when I first heard the term "sheep dip." My Pa was handing over my little baby sister who had a massive diaper goin on.

"Here, Babe. You take her. She smells like she's been run through a sheep dip."

What's that?

I was rollin around on the floor after he explained that's what they had to do ever once in a while with the flocks.

"Nasty job. Paid by the head."

[Account Deleted]

Michigan City, Indiana is closer to Chicago than Michigan.

Lost wagoneer?

[Gentlejim]

DrJ,
Good one. Haha.
There's also a Michigan City, MS. Did they appropriate that from my town or from MI? Inquiring minds I guess.

KK,
I went to Valpo U. We pronounced it ValpoRainSnow, Windiana due to the multiple seasons you could experience on a single walk across campus.

Jimmyk,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is not. ;)

[Account Deleted]

Some of the mascots for these small town high schools were fun.

The Hoopestown (IL) (pronounced Hoops-tun) Corn Jerkers (tassel pullers on corn breed the seed farms.)

The Cobden (IL) Appleknockers (best apples I've ever had but they're known for their peaches).

[jimmyk]

Lost wagoneer?

The Wyoming, Michigan guy must have been really Christopher Columbus off course, like "surely we must be in Wyoming by now."

[Gentlejim]

KK,
MC corporate limits are about 1 mile from Michigan. We are about 30 miles across Lake Michigan (there's that name again) from Chitcargo.

[Porchlight]

I love the differing pronunciations, too. BERlin, CT, for example.

[rich]

tl;dr ... So many things to get worked up about, so little time.

[Account Deleted]

Funniest thing I think I ever heard while living in Cobden Illinois, home of the Appleknockers, a village of 300 people, was a very well-educated wino nicknamed "Robo" arguing with a local femme in her 20s in front of the Rexall "sodie fountain."

Apparently he'd hit on the lass one too many time and he was quite stinky in the middle of his latest bender.

"Just get away from me, Robo!" She sneered.

Robo set down his flask and straightened his grimy suit and took off his rumpled fedora before offering his respectful and clarifying reply:

"Lena, my dear. I will have you know that I am in no way trying to woo your favors. I do not need any woman. You see, I happen to be as asexual as corn."

I don't think Lena knew what he'd revealed about his support system other than he was saying he didn't need her.

"STFU, you ol' drunk. Get outta my way."

Right out of a Jimmy McMurtry song I tell ya.

"It's a small town! Cain't sell ya no beer."

[Account Deleted]

Gentlejim... we'd drive down to Valpo some weekends Tom Waits style (two wheels on the wrong side of the road) in an early model Rambler station wagon affectionately known as "The War Wagon" as it had some unexplained bullet holes across all four doors.

"Keach" was the owner. He'd go to Valpo every weekend to see a legendary girlfriend we'd never met all four years in South Bend.

He'd start drinkin on Wednesday night. And stop on Monday morning so he could get sober for his "Tuesday classes" (all on one day.) Rinse and repeat.

Hardest drinkin school I've ever been to.

[lyle]

Speaking of town names, I guess no one really believes me when I claim there is, in fact, a small Idaho town called Athol.

[DrJ]

lyle,

Would you send me an email message please? info at sonatabio dot com .

[Account Deleted]

My BIL during my first marriage was from Vincennes Indiana. He was a francophile economist who earned his doctorate from Indy U-Bloomington.

He loved Paris and went every chance he could.

One night during the Christmas holidays about 18 of us friends and family were around a big table drankin'.

"oooh Danny! Come on! Tell us stories about Paris! My ex-wife would plead."

One of their neighbors from childhood who ran the local feed store, hilarious as hell (cooked his ravioli in the can), shouts: "Wait! Hold up! You talkin Paris, France or Paris, Illinois! Now lemme tellya-- I got some doozies for ya."

From that night on for about 20 years the standing quip whenever somebody referred to a city in Europe, "You mean Paris France or Paris Illinois?"

[Gentlejim]

Hardest drinkin school I've ever been to.

I, for better or worse, can attest to that. :)

[Account Deleted]

Aha! My memory is cloudy today, gentlejim. Thanks for that. ;)

[The Infamous Ignatz]

--Wien = Vienna.--

So a hot dog is a wee-ENN-er?