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June 17, 2017


Captain Hate

So just what does this passage mean?

Hazarding a guess, she seems to think that only "assault rifles" can fire hollowpoints.


key takeaway : don't read the NYT unless you like being constantly propagandized.

Captain Hate

Btw, does anybody know if hollowpoints are illegal or if just the police not allowed to use them? Or if I'm wrong on both. They do a lot of internal damage, as the author pointed out, but they also lessen potential damage to anybody standing behind the target from, say, an armor piercing bullet passing through.

Frau Sackbahnhof

Related: Gov. Choo Choo wants an assault bullet train for CA. It's killing the state already.

Just curious

Was there Pulse thread..lol


Ammo still not contraband in .CA as yet..
No plan for implementation Jerry?


This development was driven by the ideological belief, often fanatically held, that people employed by government are less efficient than those employed by the private sector. That ideology also depended on a rejection of the very notion of altruism; which rejection of altruism was at the heart of Thatcherism. The idea that people are only motivated by personal gain is of course quite untrue. Firefighters, who are still employed by the public, have proved that just now, beyond anything I can say, by going well beyond their contractual duty to try to help. But even accepting for one moment, for the sake of argument, the doctrine that people are only motivated by money; it plainly does not follow that public services would be more efficiently delivered by the private sector. What does follow is that public services will suffer from profiteering if run by the private sector.

But this disastrous contracting out is not always to private for profit companies. It is sometimes to what Tories call the “third sector”, meaning charities and not for profit companies. Much of the aid budget is now spent this way. Not at all coincidental, the pumping of large amounts of public money into this sector has coincided with a quite incredible rise in the salaries and emoluments of senior charities staff.

We have ended up in the situation where executive staff of charities are on over £200,000 a year, where the chief executive of Save the Children gets twice the salary of the Head of DFID, and where people who occupy what were once public sector jobs in rail, water or housing can earn ten times what their public sector predecessors were getting. At the same time wages, employment protection, conditions and unionisation for the actual workers have all been cut.

This is important because the Kensington and Chelsea Tenants Management Organisation Ltd is a not for profit company. No shareholders get any profits from it, and it does not remunerate its directors. This is the body which manages Grenfell Towers and did the refurbishment. Some of the (rightly critical) comment has assumed that KCTMO Ltd is a profiteering private company and this is why it has skimped on possible safety features like sprinkler systems. But it is more complicated than that.

The majority of KCTMO directors, including the chairman, are themselves tenants of the council’s housing. Three more are council appointed. The philosophy behind KCTMO Ltd is on the face of it benign – the tenants are managing their own properties. Which leads to the question of why relationships had broken down so badly between KCTMO and those apparently speaking for the residents of Grenfell Tower, particularly over fire safety issues.

Some of the answer to that may relate to social hierarchy among different types of council tenant. I do not know if anyone on the KCTMO board lived in Grenfell Tower, but imagine we would have been told that if so..

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Where to begin?

First, hunting bullets are never designed to explode or fragment; in fact the precise opposite. They are designed to remain intact and to mushroom at the tip in order to create a larger wound channel. They are judged effective by how much of their mass they retain not lose. "Explosive" or fragmentation bullets have an unfortunate tendency to expend their energy superficially leaving non mortal wounds.

Second, one can pull the trigger as fast on a pistol as one can on a rifle so you cannot shoot more rounds per second with a rifle.

Third, FMJ bullets often follow a relatively straight path but are in many cases more easily deflected by hard tissue and bone than an expanding bullet which tends to plow through such obstacles.

There are probably a bunch more but why bother?

Cap, an expanding bullet and a hollow point are not synonymous.
Theoretically hollow points expand more rapidly but the practical difference is not readily apparent to me. Hollow points are usually confined to pistol rounds whose lower velocity makes bullet expansion more difficult to achieve and because a hollow point is not exactly an aerodynamic cheetah, which matters a lot more in a high velocity, longer range rifle round. Rifle bullets for hunting typically have a copper jacket with a lead core but the jacket is open at the tip and comes to a point using either the interior lead or more recently a plastic plug.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Hollow points are generally legal for the public. I'm not sure cops are legally prevented from using them everywhere. They are banned by the Geneva conventions for military use, under the largely archaic name dum-dums.

The cops prefer being shot at with hollow points as they are generally stopped easier by vests than fmj, which kind of makes one wonder about the Geneva conventions continued applicability these days.

I won't even dignify the idiotic "cop killer" bullets meme with an explanation.

Captain Hate

I knew they weren't synonymous, Iggy.


stolen from a City Journal commenter:
"Hodgkinson's Disease. Characterized by the inability to reason, leading to compulsive acts of violence exacerbated by propaganda continually disseminated by the media, the Democrat party, and other so-called progressives."


Page Skipper

Buford Gooch

I sit here shaking my head because of the amount of idiocy in just this one excerpt from the failing NYT. Thanks, Iggy, for pointing out at least part of what is wrong with it. The mind set that allows this to be written, and then published boggles.


Follow on from the Amazon / Whole Foods discussion, which could be another form of "don't get shot" I, ummmmm, presume:

* * *

JiB and DebinGA, I agree about Publix. They are the standard and get tremendous loyalty.

But Amazon is going to be a very unique challenge as their strategy comes into greater focus and is implemented.

Publix may have to make some strategic alliances that allow for quick and efficient delivery. But I just don't know that grocery stores as we've come to know them have much of a life going forward. They're going to (out of necessity) morph into something else.

What, pray tell? Grocery store + pharmacy + restaurant + cooking school + meeting place + sports bar + gas station, etc. (some of these, of course, they've already become in some places) -- in other words, a spot that gives people a reason to come out and be . . . communal, interact, mix and mingle. But in a 21st Century kind of way.

When I visited Hong Kong, my wife and I were amazed when told that very few of these folks had anything like a kitchen as we know it. Everybody eats out. That, of course, runs quite counter to the American mindset and I don't see that happening here. But for "X" percentage of the population? Yes, I can see it. In fact, it's already fairly established.


From the last thread:

the distinction is between tales out of school, and info disseminated to further a vendetta.

There used to be a distinction, narciso. Now, it's all of a piece. It's not just water cooler gossip. People learn something that's part of a classified or sensitive operation and, it appears, they can't wait to repeat it. They even put their own spin on it, and after a few repetitions the original piece morphs into something more provocative that bears only an indirect resemblance to the original.

They spill every little tidbit willingly to the media. These amateurs don't even have the slightest idea of how to speak to or around the media. Don't get me wrong. The media bears a huge responsibility in this phenomenon as well, but the "sources" however they're described are the main culprits.

Max Woot!

I’m starting to suspect that Donald Trump may not have been right when he said, “You know, I’m like a smart person.” The evidence continues to mount that he is far from smart — so far, in fact, that he may not be capable of carrying out his duties as president.
There is, for example, the story of how Trump met with the pastors of two major Presbyterian churches in New York. “I did very, very well with evangelicals in the polls,” he bragged. When the pastors told Trump they weren’t evangelicals, he demanded to know, “What are you then?” They told him they were mainline Presbyterians. “But you’re all Christians?” he asked. Yes, they had to assure him, Presbyterians are Christians. The kicker: Trump himself is Presbyterian.

Buford Gooch

Rattlegator, My son and his wife are both very good cooks. They used to whip up some delicious meals. With immediate delivery of very good meals at a reasonable cost, they have almost entirely stopped cooking.
This is in Silicon Valley. I suspect that it is also in other major metro areas. It will only increase among this younger generation.

Max Woot!

Please tell us your opinion on Trust Busting rattlygate.

Regulation: another grey card?

Black/ White simplicity escapes the complexities.


Many like Max Boot don't find a stoopid POTUS advantageous

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--I knew they weren't synonymous, Iggy.--

I figured you did, CH, but that comment started out as "First" until I realized I didn't want to merge your legitimate point with the idiocies of the NYT.
Shoulda modified it.

Ralph L

Second, one can pull the trigger as fast on a pistol as one can on a rifle so you cannot shoot more rounds per second with a rifle.
Why do they always conflate "assault" rifles and automatic ones? Are they ignorant or just liars?
I've noticed more automatic weapons on cop & spy shows in recent years, but do any criminals actually use them? That would be front pages news.


Is there a counterpart to Amazon online? I'm becoming concerned about buying from them be cause of Bezos. His expansion into a variety of markets is a concern.

He's accomplished this mainly by partnering with other businesses and giving them an online platform which he had the foresight to exploit early on. The acquisition of whole foods, however makes me question his long term goals.



Great to see you here!

they have almost entirely stopped cooking.
This is in Silicon Valley.

Maybe it will catch on. But Silicon Valley is not like the rest of the country, or the rest of the world. Salaries there are huge, costs are enormous, and time is limited. So if you can spend a bit more to save time, that's good. In their world.

MrsJ and I always talk about our days while she cooks wonderful things. We have the time to do that. Food delivery would not change that routine.

I'll say, though, that any company who hired me for foresight into popular culture would go broke.


Writer doesn't know a [redacted] thing about guns or ammo but writes something for progs to skim over and get their heads nodding in agreement and righteous anger and complete ignorance. Mission accomplished. Repeat with another topic. Rinse.

Reconstruction plans

Leading Off

● Pennsylvania: A group of Pennsylvania voters and the League of Women Voters filed a lawsuit in state court Thursday arguing that the congressional map Republican legislators passed in 2011 amounted to a partisan gerrymander in violation of the state constitution’s guarantees of free speech and equal protection. If the court strikes down this map, Pennsylvania could have to draw new districts for the 2018 cycle, which would almost certainly result in more Democrats getting elected to the House.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--but do any criminals actually use them--

Virtually never, not least because they are fabulously expensive and well guarded by their legal owners to prevent the cheaper method of obtaining one.
Criminal's, refusing to act like progs wish them to, don't tend to intentionally break into the home of a guy they know owns fully automatic weapons.

Old Lurker

Both, Ralph.


Life at Chez lyle pretty much revolves around preparing meals. We dine out at night maybe once a month. Maybe. But I know of more friends who use those home delivered meals that are all prepped and only require cooking. I'm tempted to try them because judging by their commercials, everyone who uses these services turns into beautiful, slim, people with gorgeous kitchens...


i think it depends on how many you are cooking for. It's never cheap to take the human eating machine out and so as long as i have kids at home i will cook. it's not an accident that what i do get from wf is largely things only they carry.

Really good frozen clams that make a great linguine or chowder and the cheeses i mentioned yesterday. then i swing by publix for milk and nonorganic onions and potatoes.

by the way when publix opened in the metro atl area it had demonstraters because it was non-union. after a month or two pr realized that it was driving traffic to publix and away from kroger.nobody at publix rings up food while simultaneously eating chips.

one more comment from last weekend's DW discussion. once i have to buy i go into major research mode. it turned out miele has created an intense wash cycle that they released last year in europe and in april on machines in the us. it is accompanied by new detergent tabs with a deal on them (free for a years supply).

basically it gets around much of the discussion from last weekend on the long washing times. it is 55 minutes and it cleaned up the grits casserole dish from last night perfectly. it also opens the door on all cycles when they are over, creating both a visual prompt and a release of steam.

if you have to replace one suddenly as i did and relish a quick cleaning time plus quiet, it may make sense to look at those units. none of these were features the salesman at the nice appliance dealer seemed to be aware of. I also had to call attention to the tablet special.

Reconstruction plans

"Criminal's, refusing to act like progs wish them to, don't tend to intentionally break into the home of a guy they know owns fully automatic weapons."

Baloney. SSIL home invaded. Flash entry through patio door, gun in face less than 5 seconds.

No time to pull, lock and load at 3 am.

Man Tran

Ralph, I've noticed the small auto weapons, too. Like in the old days with the cowboys getting 20-30 shots from their six-shooters, these new bad guys seem to get 100-200 rounds out of those 30 round mags. Snort! And no one gets hit either.

Buford Gooch

Barbara, Walmart online is a fairly strong competitor to Amazon. I shop at both.

Wheel gun better

I used to keep xtra mags empty to avoid spring fatigue..then I thought 'why have them?'


i think it depends on how many you are cooking for.

I understand about human eating machines (one of my employees is 22 years old!), but for us, cooking is just for the two of us. MrsJ loves to cook, and we relax and talk while she does it. That social aspect cannot be replaced.


Some woman at West Point or some military school just invented a bullet proof vest using corn starch and some other ingredient. It weighs about 1/3 of what the current vests do (or maybe 1/10 since I have a horrible memory).

At any rate, let Congress wear those, rather than have security details. If they won't let them carry guns they are doing it to themselves.

Frau Sackbahnhof

Karen Handel -- imo here is how the democrats differ from the republicans: Claire McCaskill is dumber than Iggy's plank but is supported and protected to keep that seat for her party. She is in DC because the *republicans* did not endorse a less than attractive candidate who made "embarrassing" comments.

Master Ossoff should be easy to defeat, despite his fundraising, simply because of who he is and what he says and how far out of touch he is with GA constituents. If elected, just wait for his rhetoric to change completely. That's the path BHO and now Kamala Harris took.

Beware: The GOP and GOPe do the country no favor by deciding Karen Handel is a poor candidate, dropping support and deciding "next time there will be a better one to challenge and defeat Master Senator Ossoff."

We've seen this movie many times before. The ending is always bad.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Back from the art fair and lunch.

The art fair is held in an old area of Indianapolis, about 16-20 blocks north of the downtown.

Back in the 70's you could buy those big old houses (built 1890-1920) for around 20-30 thousand. Many of them had been carved into apartments for rental to the Herron Art School students, which was in the area. The art school has moved west to the main IUPUI campus by the med school, and the neighborhood is now considered trendy. Houses now go for around 200,000 and up. There are also new homes built in styles that blend with the neighborhood, plus some new apartments in a trendy modern style with shops on the ground floor (as Old Lurker and I were discussing). Not sure how great it would be to live over a microbrewery.

Much of the art is the same year to year (hand-made jewelry, pottery, etc.). I did find a painter this year whose card I got. She does rural scenes and I may order a print from her.

We left before the heat became unbearable and the crowds got too big. Ate lunch and now am home cooling off.

I see there was a hung jury in the Bill Cosby trial.

Stephanie despicable me

I used to cook a lot but now that there are only two of us (and I work til 6 or sometimes 7), it is easier to just order out or go out. I still try to cook at least 2 meals a week, which is why I upgraded the range, but starting dinner at 7 means eating around 8 or 8:30 and that is just way too late. Plus with the pups right now, someone has to stay on 'guard duty' to make sure they don't start nibbling on elec cords or furniture or do something else stoopit.

The hoomans are now guarding the dogs. :)


Quick synopsis on Rachel Brand and why yesterday was actually a door opening to sanity.

Cyrus Leone @cyrus_report

Get to Know Associate Attorney General Rachel Brand and why Democrat Senators Refused to Vote for Her Confirmation

Eat now vomit later

They're going to get somebody. I don't think they're going to get the president, but they're going to get somebody, and they're going to get him for something. And they're probably going to go to jail," Gingrich told Fox News's Sean Hannity.


Thanks, Buford G. That's just what I wanted to know.

Personally, I like to shop for groceries, and make my own selections of vegetables, fruit, and meats, etc. When it comes to laundry detergent and the like, I have no problem ordering online if the price is right.

Captain Hate

No sweat, Iggy; my first hand experience with non shotguns is borderline nonexistent but I know enough general knowledge on rifled barrels and the things that pass rapidly through them to know when the MFM is being more than typically obtuse about them.



ROBERT MUELLER, appointed as special counsel to investigate the allegations of Russian interference and rumors of a collusion with the Trump campaign, HIMSELF Delivered Highly Enriched Stolen Uranium to Russia in 2009.


Wikileaks posted a cable from 2009 showing that then FBI Director, Robert Mueller delivered highly enriched stolen Uranium to Russia.

Background to the story via Wikileaks cable:

"Background: Over two years ago Russia requested a ten-gram sample of highly enriched uranium (HEU) seized in early 2006 in Georgia during a nuclear smuggling sting operation involving one Russian national and several Georgian accomplices. The seized HEU was transferred to U.S. custody and is being held at a secure DOE facility.

In response to the Russian request, the Georgian Government authorized the United States to share a sample of the material with the Russians for forensic analysis. Director Mueller previously planned to deliver the sample in April (Ref A), but due to a scheduling conflict the trip was canceled.

Embassy Moscow LegAtt informed the FSB prior to Mueller’s intended April delivery and received confirmation that the FSB would take custody of the sample after the Director’s plane landed. EST Moscow also informed Rosatom of the planned transfer and that the U.S. placed a high priority on completing this transfer (Ref B). Once the LegAtt told FSB counterparts the April trip had been canceled, Ambassador Beyrle informed Igor Neverov (Ref C), who said that he understood but was disappointed the trip was postponed."

Mueller’s trip to Moscow was rescheduled for September 21, 2009:

Why aren’t the Democrats up in arms over Mueller’s visit to Russia? After all, according to the deranged Democrats, any contact with the Russians creates a cloud of suspicion and must lead to an investigation.

Read the full cable in Wikileaks archive here: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/09STATE85588_a.html


WikiLeaks cable Robert Mueller delivering highly enriched stolen Uranium to Russia in 2009 https://t.co/X3Ea2m6kS5

@apblake pic.twitter.com/yhC91B2IBK

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) May 18, 2017

Original source: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/05/wikileaks-fbis-mueller-delivered-highly-enriched-stolen-uranium-russia-2009/


Houses now go for around 200,000 and up.

I know this is trite, but goodness, is that inexpensive. In our semi-rural CA town, a house around the corner that has 800 ft2 and was a fixer (it needed total gutting), sold for $265K.

The only upside is that in the Bay Area this POS would have cost over a million dollars.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 2h2 hours ago

Donald J. Trump Retweeted 7th Fleet

Thoughts and prayers with the sailors of USS Fitzgerald and their families. Thank you to our Japanese allies for their assistance.

Captain Hate

Frau is laying waste to Top Men as badly as the US Open golfers are treating par.

Stephanie despicable me

Speaking of art fairs and Ossoff. We went to see Drivin and Cryin a few weeks back at the square in Lilburn. Ran into my congress critter handing out pamphlets for an upcoming something or other and got to chatting with him. Someone interrupted to ask him about Ossoff and I said "do you mean Tossoff" and was astounded that he was unfamiliar with the nickname. I then went on to a few other common thoughts on the nets in conservative blogs and was gobsmacked that he hadn't heard about them or that he was astonished that my 'depth of knowledge' on issues was as good or better than his. My comment was he needs to get out of his bubble, that he needs to realize everyone is 'woke' to their dealings and that if he really wanted to get the pulse of the people blogs were much better than meet and greets for understanding the mood in the country. I even suggested Am Thinker, here and a few other sites to get him going. Any bets on whether he followed my suggestions? Yea, I wouldn't bet the long odds either.

Stephanie despicable me

Off to shop for baby things..

Frau Sackbahnhof

Ch - it's a Senate seat! Don't we need to keep the ones we now have? It disgusts me that some think it will be easy to recapture.

Ossoff is the new McCaskill--just as stupid, just as protected from harm, just as dangerous.
I guess I'm asking for a GA miracle.

Miss Marple the Deplorable


Housing prices in central Indiana are incredibly cheap compared to California. The house my daughter bought is a 3bedroom 1950's bungalow with 2 baths. $70,000.

If you go to the MIBOR site for Indianapolis, you can see that the prices are far lower than California (or, for that matter, New York or DC).

I just hope a bunch of Californians don't decide to relocate here. (JOM members excepted.)

I don't want this state turning blue.


Hard to imagine "home cooking" leaving the Bible Belt in the foreseeable future. It's part of the culture - black and white.

Our oldest daughter shops at Aldi's for specific things. Don't know how widespread they are, but our small town has one. Interesting self-service concept I can imagine catching on nationwide.

Vlad the Hay Baler

Vladimir Putin: In fact, the history of Russia shows that we have usually lived under sanctions whenever Russia started to become independent and feel strong. Whenever our partners in the world saw Russia as a serious rival, they imposed various restrictions under various excuses; this has been the case throughout our history, not just in Soviet times; this was the case even before the 1917 revolution. So no surprises here.

We now know that the US Senate has drawn up another draft law on toughening these sanctions. What are the reasons for this? Nothing extraordinary is taking place. Why have they started talking about sanctions again, for no particular reason? This, of course, testifies to the ongoing domestic political struggle in the United States. In any case, this is happening and I can see no real reason for it. If it had not been Crimea or some other issue, they would still have come up with some other way to restrain Russia. The policy of containing Russia has always been presented like this.

So, what is the situation with these sanctions and what impact, if any, have they had on us? They have had an impact. Has this been fundamental in nature? I do not think so. We have been affected more by the global situation and the drop in prices for our main traditional goods – oil, gas, metals, chemicals, and so on. What view do our partners take?

The US State Department believes that these sanctions have lowered our GDP by 1 percent, the Europeans give a slightly higher figure, and the UN has calculated that we lost around $50–52 billion, and that the countries that imposed the sanctions have lost $100 billion. In other words, sanctions have proven to be a double-edged sword and harm everyone, including those who impose them.

Strange though it might sound, however, there have been advantages too. What are they? For a start, we were forced to concentrate our intelligence, talent and resources on key areas and not simply rely on oil and gas revenue. What result has this brought? We have seen real production growth in important and complex economic sectors.

We have rebuilt substantially our skills in the radio-electronics sector, and we made good progress in aircraft engineering, rocket building, pharmaceuticals, and in heavy engineering. That is not to mention agriculture. We all know that agriculture has posted growth of around 3 percent and Russia is now a leader in exports of grain and wheat. That is the result we have to show.

We have reduced substantially imports and developed our own production of pork and poultry and cover practically our entire consumption needs. What’s more, we are now looking for sales markets abroad.

We are in talks with our Chinese friends on opening the Chinese market to our pork and poultry producers. So, there are positive aspects in this situation.

But this is not a normal situation, of course. All of these restrictions do not produce anything good, and we should work towards a global economy that functions without these restrictions..

Buford Gooch

DrJ, In Silicon Valley, they are buying the dirt, not the structure. Most of the price depends on the lot size.

Captain Hate

Steph, what you're seeing is the persistence of the GOPe Finishing Schools up chucking very well engineered Edsels. It's somewhat endearing that the GOP continues to draw from people who accomplish non political things in their lives, but then they rely on the same dolts who told Eric Cantor not to sweat his primary. Old habits die hard.

The good news is the commiecrats think they're a lot smarter than they are.



$265k in CA? Is that still possible? Must be before single payer and the bullet train completion. We just got a flyer from UC Berkeley saying that student insurance now pays for laser hair removal for transgender students - seriously.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--I used to keep xtra mags empty to avoid spring fatigue...--

Not necessary.
Springs do not deform unless they are stressed beyond their design point. They are designed to hold a full magazine.
After many thousands of cycles of compression and tension it may be possible to induce spring fatigue but that is not likely for most users either.
That assumes a competent design and manufacturer.

Man Tran

Re that flash bang entry into your safe space, MT Jr was getting his MBA at Tulane when his front door was bashed in during a raid to the wrong addy (natch). His M9 was under his pillow and he never had a chance to reach for it. Good thing, became he would have been dead in those few seconds.

Buford Gooch

DebinGA, Aldis is big in the Midwest. My fairly affluent daughter shops there almost exclusively.

Pants on fire LIES.

Heh. Buy Gubmint Bonds...

"President Donald Trump repeatedly talks tough about reining in the pharmaceutical industry, but his administration’s efforts to lower drug prices are shrouded in secrecy.

Senior administrative officials met Friday to discuss an executive order on the cost of pharmaceuticals, a roundtable informed by Trump’s “Drug Pricing and Innovation Working Group.” Kaiser Health News examined documents that shed light on the workings of this working group.

The documents reveal behind-the-scenes discussions influenced by the pharmaceutical industry. Joe Grogan, associate director of health programs for the Office of Management and Budget (OMB), has led the group. Until March, Grogan served as a lobbyist for Gilead Sciences, the pharmaceutical company that priced its hepatitis C drugs at $1,000 per pill.

To solve the crisis of high drug prices, the group discussed strengthening the monopoly rights of pharmaceuticals overseas, ending discounts for low-income hospitals and accelerating drug approvals by the Food and Drug Administration. The White House declined to comment on the working group.

The group initially met May 4 in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building and has since met every two weeks. In addition to OMB, the working group includes officials from the White House National Economic Council, Domestic Policy Council, Health and Human Services, the FDA, the Federal Trade Commission, the Department of Commerce, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative and the Department of Justice.

According to the documents — the latest of which is dated June 1— the working group focused on the following “principles” and “talking points”:

Extending the patent life of drugs in foreign markets to “provide for protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights.” This will ensure “that American consumers do not unfairly subsidize research and development for people throughout the globe.”
Extending monopoly protections for drugs overseas has been one of the pharmaceutical industry’s top priorities since the Trans-Pacific Partnership was defeated last year.

That policy would push up global drug prices, according to Médecins Sans Frontières.

Promoting competition in the U.S. drug market — both by “modernizing our regulatory and reimbursement systems” and limiting “barrier to entry, including the cost of research and development,” according to the documents.
The working group also discussed two broad policy ideas that have been championed by the pharmaceutical industry, according to sources familiar with the process:

Value-based pricing, when pharmaceutical companies keep the list prices of drugs unchanged but offer rebates if patients don’t improve. It’s unclear who would audit the effectiveness of the drugs, what criteria they would use to evaluate them and who would receive the rebates. Grogan invited Robert Shapiro — an adviser for Gilead and former secretary of Commerce under President Bill Clinton — to brief the working group on value-based pricing on May 18. Shapiro is the chairman and co-founder of Sonecon LLC, a Washington, D.C., firm that consulted with Gilead, Amgen and PhRMA, according to his curriculum vitae.
Grogan and Shapiro also discussed issuing 10-year U.S. Treasury bonds to drug manufacturers to pay for expensive, hepatitis C drugs like Sovaldi and Harvoni under Medicare and Medicaid, to avoid rationing drugs to the sickest patients. The 2015 Senate investigation, for example, found that though Medicaid spent more than $1 billion on Sovaldi, just 2.4 percent of Medicaid patients with hepatitis C were treated."

jimmyk on iPhone

Well said, frau@12:27.

If anyone is still interested, I think this link from the last thread will work.


Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Ch - it's a Senate seat!--

If you're referring to Ossof/Handel, it's a house seat.

Pants on fire LIES.




I mentioned that my comment was trite. I am astounded at what real estate costs here. Traditionally it has been about twice what it has in other regions, but these days it totally is insane.

Our situation is fine for the moment, but if single-payer health-care passes, it is time for a (painful!) move.


Too Good Not To Repost:

Just finished reading a collection of Poul Anderson sci-fi that ended on the short story called "Industrial Revolution."

The premise? An entrepreneurial asteroid mining facility, funded with borrowed capital from a bank but turning a handsome profit and poised for growth, is visited by an earth warship commanded by officers who are members of the Social Justice Party -- no kidding, they're called the SJs -- who have won elections back on Earth on a platform of bitter "you didn't build that" socialism. The warship attempts to sabotage the facility and drive out its owners so it can be seized by the government. The CEO, an engineer, and his team outwit the warship's officers but the story is told in flashback as the first incident of a war between Earth and the productive asteroid mining colonies.

The story was first published in 1963.

Pants on fire LIES.

"That assumes a competent design and manufacturer"


Miss Marple the Deplorable


Aldi's has pretty good market penetration here.
Their meat is good quality, but they don't have a huge selection. The prpoduce is pretty good, too.

The thing that helps them hold costs down is the fact that although there is a checkout cashier, you do your own bagging. They pay pretty well, from what I can tell.

They do NOT have huge sledtions in many areas. For example, they will have 6-8 varieties of canned soup, plus a couple specialty deals they got. Kroger has an entire aisle on one side which is nothing but soup (Canpbell's, Pprogresso, Kroger brand, dry soup like Lipton's and Knorr, etc.).

Aldi's simply has the usual stuff (tomato, chicken noodle,mushroom, vegetable,etc.) Do not be looking for broccoli-potato chowder or Italian wedding soup. You won't find it.

They are a great store for staples, though. And since I am a philistine who likes instant coffee, an 8-ounce jar is 2.99 at Aldi's vs. 5.99 at Kroger. Lots of the things I buy at Aldi's have that same price difference.



$265k in CA? Is that still possible?

Out here in the boonies you can still do that. Bay Area? Greater LA? You might get a dog house with no land that is a fixer.

Captain Hate

Aldis are somewhat big in this area. Some people swear by them but I'm not much of a fan.

jimmyk on iPhone

Incidentally the NYT article has one correction already. But it doesn't seem to have comments enabled, I suppose to protect them from overt humiliation.


Debin Ga:
We have an Aldi 's Whole Foods and Heinen's plus Giant Eagle.

Clarice Feldman

Barbara--Jet--though it doesn't yet carry as many things as Amazon and the food is so heavily packaged it's a mess.In some areas Instacart and google express are cutting into amazon. In some areas of the NE Fresh Direct. Costco also delivers some foods online. Some grocery and pharmacy shops have online delivery. Uber has a prepared meals delivery in some areas as does Caviar.
More people are just plain sick to death of wandering through aisles of processed foods to get to the foods they want to purchase.



DrJ, In Silicon Valley, they are buying the dirt

Exactly right. I have a friend who owns a nice but tatty mid-1950s house in Palo Alto. It needs total gutting and redoing.

But it won't happen. They have a quarter acre of land, and when they sell, a McMansion will be put up.

Current value for a tear-down? About $4 million.


If you're referring to Ossof/Handel, it's a house seat.

And the winner will have a very brief time before 2018 campaigning ramps up. Ossoff winning would be a pr win for Dems, but little else imo. A Rep. Karen Handel would be an albatross until defeated in 2018 by a better Dem opponent than Ossoff..imo

Shame on you

The 91-page decision issued Wednesday by a federal court ruling against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for violating the law with an inadequate environmental review of the $3.8 billion Dakota Access Pipeline garnered some long-delayed activist hurrahs this week. But it is a victory with caveats.

The pipeline—which runs 1,172 miles from the Bakken Formation of North Dakota (and Montana) through South Dakota and Iowa to refineries and other pipelines in southern Illinois—is designed to eventually carry 520,000 barrels a day of hydraulically fracked oil out of the Bakken shale. Most of that run is built on private land. But the pipeline also crosses Lake Oahe, a dammed portion of the Missouri River, and the only source of drinking water for the Standing Rock Sioux.

Led by Native people, the activists in their thousands opposed the pipeline project with direct action from temporary camps set up on and near the Standing Rock Sioux reservation, which straddles the border of North Dakota and South Dakota. Their actions led to more than 750 arrests and a number of clashes involving violence initiated by the local sheriff’s department and private security forces. It became the biggest and longest confrontation between Indians and government authorities since activists of the American Indian Movement occupied the hamlet of Wounded Knee on the Pine Ridge Reservation of South Dakota in 1973.

In his ruling D.C. Circuit Court Judge James Boasberg, an Obama appointee, stated:

“Although the Corps substantially complied with NEPA in many areas, the Court agrees that it did not adequately consider the impacts of an oil spill on fishing rights, hunting rights, or environmental justice, or the degree to which the pipeline’s effects are likely to be highly controversial. To remedy those violations, the Corps will have to reconsider those sections of its environmental analysis upon remand by the Court. [...]

“Even though a spill is not certain to occur at Lake Oahe, the Corps still had to consider the impacts of such an event on the environment.”

In addition, the judge scolded the Army for giving the go-ahead because the pipeline does not cross reservation land. But it runs just over half a mile from the Standing Rock Sioux reservation, and federal rules require that projects built near communities of color, poor communities, and Indian reservations have to be assessed on the basis of environmental justice. The Army shrugged off those rules.

Clarice Feldman

Iggy, I think walmart of People of Walmart attracts those people because of where they are located , cheap prices and long hours. I spoke once to a fruit grower in California and he said unlike other big biyers--Costco, i.e.--Walmart shops for price not quality and will take produce the toher big buyers won't.

Ralph L

I started shopping at Aldi's a year ago. Limited selection but the best produce in town for half the price at Harris Teeter. Great pork, wish the non-grnd beef were better. I've almost stopped going to Walmart entirely.

Doesn't everyone clean off dishes before loading the DW? I always hand-wash pots--don't want crud in my DW.


Small hands, small man..

The proposed changes in US-Cuba relations that President Donald Trump will unveil Friday in Miami could adversely impact hotel brands that directly compete with Trump's business empire, making it more difficult for them expand their foothold in Cuba.

Ralph L

They re-evaluate property values here every 9 years. Mine dropped by nearly a quarter. YeaH! But then I'm not selling, since it's a nice house, paid for, and my father and grandfather were born in it.

Compassionate curs.

Nugent, of course, now that he's taken a vow of non-violence. I know he's most worried about all the liberal violence that's breaking out all over the country. But perhaps he might have more credibility with fine fellows like this:
A federal document filed by prosecutors this week alleges that a Florida-based neo-Nazi planned to kill civilians by planting explosives at targeted sites ranging from synagogues to power lines to nuclear reactors.

The Tampa Bay Times reports that prosecutors are alleging Tampa resident Brandon Russell had bombmaking materials at a garage adjacent to his apartment that he planned on using for the mass killing of civilians.

Officers arrested Russell after finding explosives in the garage at the same time they were investigating Russell’s roommate, Devon Arthurs, who is himself a former neo-Nazi who allegedly murdered his two other roommates after they mocked his conversion to Islam.

Russell admitted to police that the explosives in the apartment were his, and prosecutors say that Arthurs described Russell’s plans to plant them at nuclear reactors while being interrogated by police.

Prosecutors presented this new evidence in a fresh bid to get U.S. Magistrate Judge Thomas B. McCoun to deny Russell bail. McCoun ruled last week that Russell was entitled to bail, although he still hasn’t set the specific amount.
I'm not sure what kind of crime would add up to not granting bail, but planning to blow up nuclear plants seems like a good candidate.

Clarice Feldman

People who are fired or resign still keep their security clearances--like Snowden and Hillary and Brennan--Ishmael Jones says it's time to review these policies:http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/06/ishmael-jones-a-modest-proposal.php

Good show

Two protesters crashed Friday night’s production of Shakespeare in the Park Julius Caesar, which depicts the assassination and brutal stabbing of a stand-in for President Donald Trump.
Laura Loomer, formerly of Project Veritas, rushed the stage shouting

“Stop the normalization of political violence against the right! This is unacceptable!” An announcer halted the production and boos from audience filled Central Park’s Delacorte Theater.


Odd how the DM link talks of "Republicans senators" and "legislators" seeing no need for Grassley's committee to investigate Loretta Lynch, but the only one quoted was lame and possibly dying duck Orin Hatch ...

Buford Gooch

Is there some way to block the comments from the troll? It's getting tedious scrolling past them. He seems to be what my father called a catfish: All mouth and no brain.

Captain Hate

Maybe narc did me a favor with the bad link to the DM article.


Listen - the British government is now exceptionally weak and unpopular. I don't just mean it's incompetent and many have a low opinion of it. A mood is rising in London in connection with the terrible fire in North Kensington, which everyone knows resulted from many years of housing policy and the deliberate degradation of people's living conditions. This mood may bring down the Tory government within days.

A petition is urging Jeremy Corbyn to table a motion of no confidence in the government "and its housing policy that caused the Grenfell Tower fire". Please can people help circulate it.

It could happen that when Parliament officially reopens next Wednesday there are 100,000 people on the street outside, expressing "no confidence" in the government.

That has not happened before in living memory. Everyone who isn't a total shit wants Jeremy Corbyn to take over as prime minister. And it's possible, seriously possible, that we will get what we want very soon.

In your fucking ugly face, Donald Trump!

jimmyk on iPhone

Even though in general Rs need to fight by Ds' rules, I think disrupting "Julius Caesar" was a mistake. Why? Because of the old saw that if your opponent is embarrassing himself, don't intervene. The play is a PR disaster, especially in light of the Scalia shooting. Also, Posobied and Loomee seem a bit sketchy. His screaming about "Goebbels" made no sense.

jimmyk on iPhone

That would be Scalise, not Scalia. /autocorrect

Buford Gooch

Just for any of you who didn't know. Aldis is the company of Trader Joe's brother.



for mm.

princesses beatrice and eugenie seem to have inherited their mother's 'taste' in fashion.


The troll is a herpes virus, Buford.



Released about an hour ago so yes this is another attack this week.


Sounds like your dw picked a great time to die, rse. I'll definitely check out that Miele when the need arises.


The telegraph link last night shows the organixer of these protests is a cirbyn supporter with very sketchy background a community agutator of the kind we are all too familiar.



Thank you for all the information on alternatives to Amazon! (See clarice's post at 1:04 pm).

I'll go exploring :)


Blasted auto correct!

That should read Clarice. Now your name's in my Kindle dictionary, too.


Seeing as this blasted cladding was an offering to the skdragon that proved fatal, well crickets


I generally agree Jimmy, the building the wall, bildungromam went a way in a flash but Carlos slings insistence on how it muse promoted even after Alexandria, well its something else again

Frau Lebensmittelgeschaeft

In Germany, there is Aldi Nord and Aldi Süd. The natives know which one is where in the area. Both are found in the US I read.

Doh! There is a different Aldi sign for each which is why the natives can tell which one is which!

The Aldi Nord group currently consists of 35 independent regional branches with approximately 2,500 stores. Aldi Süd is made up of 31 companies with 1,600 stores. The border between their territories is commonly known as ″Aldi-Äquator″ (literally: Aldi equator.)

As for Trader Joe's, it started in Pasadena as a local enterprise and was then sold to an Aldi company. I used to drive in to visit my good friend in Pasadena and then buy a *whole* wheel of brie--$9.00 at the time. At the time, the market made fresh sandwiches which were really wonderful. No liverwurst, however.


I was there once. Wasbt impressed.



All they need are blue helmets


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