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October 04, 2017

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James D.

Well, if the left wants to tear itself apart, I suppose the best thing to do is sit back and let them have at it.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Adam Herbets‏Verified account @AdamHerbets

FBI: We have multiple leads all around the world involving the travel patterns of MULTIPLE people involved in this investigation.

===================================

This is a reporter for the Fox affiliate in Las Vegas.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

DebinGA,

Beginning of 10PM hour on Fox Brian Kilmeade had on a terrorism expert and they were discussing the fuel tanks. Expert said it had the hallmarks of al Qaeda.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

"Get a grip" is not bullets, BR.
It is, I thought, a fairly mild attempt to ask you to temper what seem to me to be some fairly wild and unsupported speculations.

Merely a suggestion; not gunfire, not even semi auto nor bump stock enhanced.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/04/fbi-agent-we-have-multiple-leads-in-u-s-and-all-across-the-world-video/?utm_campaign=atdailycaller&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

Threadkiller

Pretty sure Mythbusters tackled the A-Team "bullet blows up fuel tank" theory. Doesn't really work that way.

With his pilots license and planes (assuming that is still true) he may have had access to the airport to set some of the explosive powder containers close to the tanks.

[Thinking out loud]

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

I'm highly doubtful 5.56 or even 308 bullets had a chance of penetrating large storage tanks and igniting jet fuel, which is chemically similar to kerosene.
Maybe a succession of 30 to 50 caliber tracers might have had some chance.
Not the brightest part of his plan.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Threadkiller,

Apparently they located bullet marks on the tanks.

Maybe there were supposed to be explosives planted near them? Maybe the firing got out of control and overshot the crowd?

It would explain (maybe) the telescopic sites.

It seems like stuff is starting to break now, doesn't it?

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Guess this was Paddock's dream;

Made it Ma! Top o' the world!

Miss Marple the Deplorable

I am trying really hard not to get vested in one theory or another. Anything I am posting is simply what is being reported.

Threadkiller

This image:

suggests a reason for the two knocked out windows.

Image Link:https://res.cloudinary.com/stephens-media/image/upload/v1507166720/webSHOOT-targets-Oct5-17-copy.jpg

Article:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/

Threadkiller

I looked it up. Mythbusters found that regular rounds will swiss cheese a fuel tank and nothing else.

In a later episode they concluded that a tracer would ignite fuel if it fired at a great enough distance for the friction to heat the tracer tip sufficiently.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Threadkiller,

So now the question is if he had tracer rounds.

I can't believe he wouldn't know about regular rounds not blowing those tanks up.

Saw a commenter on that Steyn article who thinks the guy was dead before the shooting started.

The FBI and Vegas police need to find out whats going on and announce it soon, or the theories are going to get out of control.

 narciso

Shows we are fat from a hive mind:

https://legalinsurrection.com/2017/10/pew-report-right-leaning-news-outlets-more-neutral-in-trump-coverage/

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Regarding tracer rounds:

Several years ago the gun shop and shooting range located across the alley from my auction house caught on fire. The cause was a guy shooting two tracer rounds into the rubber (or whatever they used for cushioning in the indoor range.) The place almost burned to the ground.

 narciso

Ok so the tannerite was in his car, which was in valet parking.

joan

Sorry to go off, off topics from Las Vegas and free speech, but :)

You people will think I'm crazy, . . .
I think it was Peter who posted that there were signs he was on jom too much, and he listed his ring tone, Horst Jankowski's A Walk in the Black Forest (because daddy mentioned it.) I remember wondering if it was classical.Then I continued reading posts, got excited about the @breaking911, and went to a few websites looking for more LasVegas info., etc. At the same time, I'd streamed Midsummer Murders for my husband, was staring at it, not paying attention, and I began to hear this music, duh, duh, da da da da, and thought 'huh, that's pretty.' Then I thought, I wonder if this is Jankowski's song. After my husband went to bed, I checked and it is -- I'll bet I haven't heard that song in, what, thirty years? Or more. :) I know I wasn't on here when it was discussed because of the name being so distinctive.

Anyway, isn't the brain a marvelous thing. I didn't try and remember the song, anyway, I didn't consciously try -- guess it was my subconscious working. :)

Oh, well, just thought this was interesting. :) Especially since most days I can't find where I left my purse the day before. :)

DebinGA

A Walk In the Black Forest 1965 - I definitely remember that one.

Threadkiller

I can't believe he wouldn't know about regular rounds not blowing those tanks up.

This is one of the few things I would believe.

This bit of movie magic has been so pervasive, I would wager that every Hillary voter believes it to be true.

Captain Hate

This is what journalism skools are upchucking at the top of the class these days:

363 347 Matthew Dowd if ABC News fame says the Second Amendment was put in place so that citizens could take up arms to protect the government.
Posted by: Bicentennialguy at October 04, 2017 06:52 PM (nILVB)

I can't even.
Posted by: rickl at October 04, 2017 06:55 PM (sdi6R)

That's so unbelievably ass backward I just...well, I can't even. It's like HRC's take on Orwell's 1984.
Posted by: Insomniac - Mad as Hell but Still Taking It at October 04, 2017 06:57 PM (NWiLs)

Threadkiller

I have no evidence that he was a Hillary voter.

DebinGA

Those fuel tanks are massive

 narciso

I think he has done Dem pollster that rove found on the highway and took pity on him, yowza.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Captain Hate,

I am SO glad Matthew Dowd works for ABC so I can totally avoid him.

Between him and Maureen Dowd, I have a real aversion to that name. (Apologies if anyone here has that last name, and also my sympathies.)

windansea

So far I see nothing that makes me think there is a conspiracy or that this guy had help.

1. His girlfriend had to know. Nah.. he bought 33 guns in the last year, so maybe he rented a storage unit somewhere and stashed guns there. Raise your hand if you have ever hid something from your significant other. From her and her sisters statements, don't think they are involved.

2. How did he get all those guns in the hotel? Easy enough, I could fit 10 AR15s in one of my golf travel bags. $20 bucks to a bellman works wonders. Ever had a bellman search your luggage?

3. He had no military experience. No big deal, anyone can buy guns and learn to use them. Spraying 100 rounds per minute at 30,000 people packed into a football field does not take great skill. Neither does buying 100 round magazines and bump stocks.

4. Gosh! He fired at some big gas tanks!!! Posssibly he watched one of a thousand action movies where gas tanks blow up with bullets.

I think we are just dealing with a sick psychopath of some sorts, sooner or later they will find out what set him off, or maybe not. But I doubt it will be Isis, Al Queda, or some deep state plot.

Sometimes evil is just evil.


lyle

I love the smell of identity politics colliding...

Threadkiller

PoopScoop has a theory. Not a bad one.

http://therightscoop.com/mystery-woman-seen-with-vegas-shooter-sought-by-cops-fits-odd-early-report/

Apparently the cops are looking for another woman. He speculates that it may be the death threater that was reported prior to the concert.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

windandsea,

They seem to be spending an awful lot of time investigating a lone nut case.

Like I said, I will accept it if I am shown evidence, like ramblings of weirdness on his laptop or something.

Sheriff says he had help and firmly believes it.

fdcol63

Occam’s Razor would lay odds that he’s just a lone wolf psychopath.

But what if someone else sharpened the edge?

joan

I agree evil is just evil.

Wonder what he had the ammonium nitrate for. I've read they discovered some at his house, and then today I read he had some in his car.

???

What does a person do with lots of it? Fertilize his yard? Oxidizing agent in explosives?

Have any of you heard from one of the LE's press conferences if he actually had the am?

Captain Hate

That Coulter piece was part and parcel of why she's so frustrating because she has a history of stellar work interrupted by long stretches of being Queen Bitch to anyone who she believes is a suitable target, particularly people who are mostly on her side, for her poison pen.

BR

Joan, that's spiritual magic :)

Miss Marple the Deplorable
DebinGA

NV Sheriff Joe Lombardo

 narciso

Ha r they shown any of the records of prkpwrty, he had turned liquid.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Matthew Dowd of ABC News fame says the Second Amendment was put in place so that citizens could take up arms to protect the government.--

That is ROFLMAO stupid.
I guess he thinks "the security of a free state" means a gigantic teetering Leviathan trying to crush us.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Holey cow! It's late!

Nytol!

windansea

They seem to be spending an awful lot of time investigating a lone nut case.

Sometimes lone nuts are just nutty. Think Unabomber

As far as LV Sheriff, here's what he said.

Lombardo said, “Look at this. You look at the weapon obtaining the different amounts of tannerite available, do you think this was all accomplished on his own, face value?”
“You got to make the assumption he had to have help at some point, and we want to insure that’s the answer. Maybe he’s a super guy, super hero–not a hero, super–I won’t use the word. Maybe he’s super — that was working out this out on his own, but it will be hard for me to believe that.”
He also said, “Here’s the reason why, put one and one–two and two together, another residence in Reno with firearms, okay, electronics and everything else associated with larger amounts of ammo, a place in Mesquite, we know he had a girlfriend. Do you think this is all self-facing individual without talking to somebody, it was sequestered amongst himself. Come on focus folks these type of investigations have been occurring in the last few years and we have to investigate that.”

He is just speculating, looking for a candle in the dark.

Porchlight

I identified Charlottesville as a staged event immediately.

Sometimes there really is more to the story than we can see.

Logistically, I don't see the LV shooter experiencing much difficulty setting up his operation. That doesn't mean there isn't more to it. I just hope we can actually learn the truth eventually.

windansea

The Sheriff seems a nice guy, but seems unable to come to grips with actual psychopathy, which is understandable.

There is nothing so far that couldn't be done by a psychopath with money and intent. Buying the guns, researching the venue, figuring the sightlines etc etc.

What is hard to understand is why.

DebinGA

Oh dear. I took heart that the Sheriff is a Republican, but, after reading his rambling, quasi-incoherent public pontificating, now not so much.

RattlerGator

It remains quite possible the Sheriff has been instructed and coached a bit to present this type of image for necessarily unknown investigatory reasons.

Just saying it's possible, that's all.

Other parties being involved, with contingent plans for further activities, looks like a distinct probability to me. It seems the FBI is in a race, and so is local law enforcement.

These are dangerous, dangerous times.

Good night, and be safe everybody

Clarice Feldman

windansea, how nice to hear from you again--breath of fresh air.

windansea

Re: Tannerite

Tannerite consists of ammonium nitrate and aluminum powder. Once tannerite is formed, ignition - such as a bullet- is needed to create an explosion.

They found 50 lbs in his car. Perhaps he was going to place this near the gas tanks, who knows but definitely he didn't bring it to fertilize tomatoes.

Interesting that police found evidence he planned to escape. Seriously? Like to see his plan cuz firing 1000 rounds from 32 floor of Vegas hotel does not create a lot of opportunities.

Threadkiller

Tannerite:

https://youtu.be/yV4hXXKlblI

lyle

Apparently there's no weight limit to what you can bring into a casino hotel room.

Threadkiller

Yes.... the air had become so stale around here.

::groan::

 joan

I thought of the Unabomber, too. But he didn't get much press in London, where we lived. I checked a minute ago, but couldn't tell in a quick scan. Did he go public with grievances early on, or was it later with his manifesto?

Threadkiller

His having an escape plan is simple to explain.

He was crazy.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Seriously? Like to see his plan cuz firing 1000 rounds from 32 floor of Vegas hotel does not create a lot of opportunities.--

Well, considering his plans for those fuel tanks, perhaps he was inspired by Hollywood and his plan involved suction cups...or shooting spidey webs from his wrists...or getting all ticked off and turning big, green and bullet proof.

 joan

Oh. My. Gosh. TK!! That video made me jump. :)

Thank you.

windansea

Joan

The Unabomber started in 1978. His manifesto was published in 1995. He was only arrested in 1996 because his brother turned him in. So much for FBI investigative prowess.

 narciso

Plagiarizing martin sheen Shirley:


http://telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/minute-by-minute-theresa-mays-big-speech-descended-chaos

 joan

TK: I'm going to go watch the video again. :)

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Ben Stein with a nice but familiarly disturbing story contrasting his childhood in Silver Springs Maryland with today; Where Have You Gone, Mrs. B?

 narciso

Maybe hannigan stepped down for another reason:


http://.
telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/04/former-gchq-chief-fined-admitting-assault-sexualised-game-dinner

Clarice Feldman

Heh, Iggy--with that nytol--behave.

 joan

Thanks, windandsea.

Threadkiller

Sorry I forgot to warn about the foul language, joan.

Nytol!

windansea

Yes.... the air had become so stale around here.
::groan::

TK You dissing me or Clarice here?

windansea


windansea, how nice to hear from you again--breath of fresh air

Thanks Clarice, I've been bored with politics, but crime stories like this interest me.

Threadkiller

Clarice has been chumping on some of us and our recent harmless speculations, windansea.

No slight at you was intended.

 joan

I think the thing that is so difficult for a lot of us, and why we spend time speculating on how and who else and why is because we simply can't accept sheer evil. The absolute lack of humanity, the icy coldness running through these killers.

Years ago I read an article in our newspaper about a dog that had been abused. It was so horrific, the story was carried in larger papers. At that time, I was writing a lot -- what happened to that dog bothered me so much I wrote a mystery about it, and, of course, I provided a solution, a bad guy -- the absolute monster who tortured that dog. But I never could figure out why someone would do it. Recently, because I want to 'leave' some things for my grandchildren (so they can be proud of me) I decided to edit the manuscript and put it up on kindle.

Oh, I forgot to say I won a grand prize on a short story and a first prize on a book-length manuscript in a contest, with lots of published authors entered in one of the contests. I never submitted it for publication -- had some health issues. Anyway, as I said, I'm self-publishing it.

The main point of this is -- until I started editing this story and re-editing it this past two months, I never could come up with a reason the dog was abused. Out of the blue one day when I was working on it, I typed what my little YA detective was thinking. She couldn't figure out why someone would be so cruel or crazy, and then she thought 'he didn't hate the dog; he hated someone who loved the dog (his ex-wife who had left him, and whom he was stalking.)

Anyway, don't know if this applies to others here, but it is so much more satisfying if we can have a reason, even if it is a crazy reason.

I'm going to post the first paragraph or prologue of my little story. It doesn't have this in the paragraph, but the person who did this, wired the dog's back legs together before she was stuffed in a bag.

"Someone tossed the dog off the bridge into the river below in a moment dark as midnight. Tied in a rough burlap sack and chained to a cinder block to weigh her down, she must have made quite a splash. The dog was in for the struggle of her life. Stolen from a world of sunlight and star-filled nights, she’d entered a terrifying unknown."

windansea

TK

Ok understand, I will tell you this, Clarice is pretty smart, if she chumps you on something you might want to listen. I have seen a lot of spec bs here lately that is not substantiated.

Threadkiller

Smart gals can chump with facts I suppose.

Or cut and pastes from unknown facebook clowns.

Or whatever they please. Because they are smart.

windansea


I think the thing that is so difficult for a lot of us, and why we spend time speculating on how and who else and why is because we simply can't accept sheer evil.

And there it is, people find it hard to accept pure evil. Because we are human. And that is good. Nothing wrong with looking for conspiracies/meaning, but sometimes evil is just evil. There is just no sense to it.

Threadkiller

Don't get me wrong, windansea, I am pleased to see your posts as I always have been.

I just don't think the "breath of fresh air" line was called for. She is making this place out to be Patterico's echo chamber because she disagrees with a few comments.

And those disagreements were insult laden, not fact filled.

Threadkiller

I'll drop it.

Goodnight for real.

Welcome back, windansea.

Janet 🚬

joan -
makes me think of this exchange from 'Tombstone'

Wyatt Earp: What makes a man like Ringo, Doc? What makes him do the things he does?

Doc Holliday: A man like Ringo has got a great big hole, right in the middle of him. He can never kill enough, or steal enough, or inflict enough pain to ever fill it.

Wyatt Earp: What does he need?

Doc Holliday: Revenge.

Wyatt Earp: For what?

Doc Holliday: Bein' born.

Ignatz

The current version of The Fabulous Thunderbirds, Telephone Blues.
Kim Wilson still has the pipes and still blows a mean harp while Johnny Moeller is way underrated on guitar.
Beautiful, IMO.

James D.

I just hope we can actually learn the truth eventually.

I hope so, too. But I don't believe we will. And even if we do, a lot of people won't believe it. The FBI and the DoJ and the media have squandered so much credibility that it's basically impossible to trust anything they say, even when it happens to be the truth.

It's as though none of them ever read, or learned the message of, "the boy who cried wolf"

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Good morning!

Conservative Treehouse has the video of the sheriff's presser last night.

Buried in the comments (there are 500) I found the following items:

1. He booked a third venue site, Lolapalooza, earlier in the month but was a no-show.

2. A customer reported he was at a blackjack table, drunk, and said he wished he could kill his mother, because he wished he had never been born. (This goes to the disturbed individual scenario.)

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/us/paddock-profile-house-cash-fence-invs/index.html

Paid cash for his house. Said he gambled about $1 million/year. Weird modifications to back yard.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

I was unaware there were 2 estranged brothers, as well as the one we have seen interviewed.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4951076/Hound-calls-owner-mama-haunting-dog-voice.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

There is video. First incident is the most effective. Subsequent ones make me think the dog is saying "Nom, nom, nom" for treats.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/04/the-u-s-virgin-islands-is-weathering-the-hurricanes/?utm_campaign=atdailycaller&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4951334/Las-Vegas-gunman-booked-hotel-overlooking-Lollapalooza.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailus

Miss Marple the Deplorable

https://hotair.com/archives/2017/10/04/sebelius-harry-reid-pushed-unusual-menendez-meeting-corruption-trial/

I would like Reid to get dragged into this and not get off scot-free.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/04/poll-most-voters-support-trumps-tax-plan/?utm_campaign=atdailycaller&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-41503143

Sir Edward Heath underage sex abuse report.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 3m3 minutes ago

So wonderful to be in Las Vegas yesterday and meet with people, from police to doctors to the victims themselves, who I will never forget!

Miss Marple the Deplorable

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/bump-stock-device-received-atf-green-light-during-obama-administration

anonamom

We've got to give McConnell thanks for holding off on his replacement. And my fellow citizens for keeping HRC from filling the spot.

Scalia Speaks:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/soulcraft-as-statecraft/article/2009859#.WdVC0462NXk.twitter

anonamom

http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(17)30562-4

If TL;DR---Carbs Kill

(So no more Goldfish for those youngin's, OL! At least no more cases!!)

Real food for real people, right KK???

Miss Marple the Deplorable

anonamom,

Where would I go to find a decent low-carb diet?

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 9m9 minutes ago

Why Isn't the Senate Intel Committee looking into the Fake News Networks in OUR country to see why so much of our news is just made up-FAKE!

===============================

Well, THIS should set the cat amongst the pigeons!

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 2m2 minutes ago

Stock Market hits an ALL-TIME high! Unemployment lowest in 16 years! Business and manufacturing enthusiasm at highest level in decades!

anonamom

windandsea and janet nail it--there is a huge "hole" (lack of empathy, is how the neuro people currently describe it) which can lead to incomprehensible (to the vast majority) cruelty--what we call evil.

At least that's what I got from reading The Science of Evil:On Empathy and the Origins of Cruelty by Simon Baron-Cohen.

There are three forms of what he describes as Zero-Negative empathy,
using standard psych descriptors that are used to classify these beings. He uses the term Zero Negative as there is nothing positive about them--they are of no benefit to those around them, and often cause suffering to the afflicted as well.

Borderline
Narcissist
Psychopath

Where these overlap in a venn diagram is where you find zero empathy.

DebinGA

Sounds like MM's ex.

Thomas Collins

William and Mary is a public school. I wonder whether the Virginia legislators are paying attention to how the First Amendment is being trampled on there.

Porchlight

I have seen a lot of spec bs here lately that is not substantiated.

Of course. Spitballing is what we do around here, especially after events like this when little information is available. Pretty sure everyone commenting has engaged in unsubstantiated speculation at one time or another.

And James D. is right. If the authorities and the media are frustrated because no one trusts them anymore, they have themselves to blame. I think they *can* track this guy down, and I'm not bothered by the "silence" so far, because that's the nature of a police investigation, but I share the worry that they won't have the political guts to tell the public the truth when they learn it.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

DebinGA,

Far more similarities than I have let on. Creeps me out.

My personal position is that this guy had some minimal help as he wasn't a creative thinker.

Saw a comment somewhere saying he thought the amount of guns in room was because guy was a dark web gun seller. That would fit with his general MO of thinking he could do what he wanted.

Ralph L

Fresh air was a pun on windansea, I imagine.
It's Silver Spring. They don't need or want more Ss.

his car, which was in valet parking.
That just sounds really odd.

Strange they'd have huge fuel tanks so close to the Strip--safety and property values--but I guess it's for the airport? Jet fuel is harder to ignite than gasoline.

Still going with the brain tumor theory.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Ralph L.,

I would think that the doctor who prescribed the valium would have caught it, but maybe not. Surely that is something they would look for in the autopsy.

However, I want medical evidence of that as in observers, X-rays, photos, etc. No just telling me.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump 6m6 minutes ago

Rex Tillerson never threatened to resign. This is Fake News put out by @NBCNews. Low news and reporting standards. No verification from me.

Jim Eagle

I a m late to the party but I want to comment on the "shots fired at oil tanks" discussion:

There is no way in hell that any of those shots fired from the Mandalay Bay could penetrate the wall of any of those J1, J2 storage tanks. The minimum wall thickness per API - 650 (American Petroleum Institute standard No. 650 for design and construction of oil storage tanks) is from the bottom up 1 1/2" thick to 3/4" thick at the apex of the taper.

In one of my first field engineering jobs I had the pleasure of managing the CB&I (Chicago Bridge and Iron) contract for our No. 6 and No.2 fuel oil tanks. They were all heavy wall such as API-650 calls for. Plates are nominally 8 feet high and depending on total storage capacity, the wall can even be more than 2" thick. They are all carbon steel and the designs are heavily engineered for hydrostatic pressure stress and specific gravity of the stored liquid.

If he was specifically aiming at those tanks thinking he could blow them up then he is even loonier than we have thought.

Ralph L

Obama did so so much for race relations.
It could be seeing all the white guilt on display over his election that emboldened the BLM.

I thought W&M's statement was a lot better than you'd get elsewhere, but they need to act to back it up.

DebinGA

Gobsmacked at the William and Mary story posted yesterday, where a prog ACLU exec had her lecture on free speech stopped by shouting BLMers who then surrounded her and prevented her from leaving. Searched for background and found this from last April. Where's a MLK or Rosa Parks with moral authority to push-back against these bullies?

Ralph L

Would a bullet even dent the tank at point blank, much less 2000 ft?

Clarice Feldman

Sheesh--yes, fresh air is a pun on windansea.

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame