From Hero To Zero - Confusion In Vegas

This revision of the timeline to the discovery of the Las Vegas shooter is shocking:

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal

olice have dramatically changed their account of how the Las Vegas massacrebegan on Oct. 1, revealing Monday that the gunman shot a hotel security guard six minutes before opening fire on a country music concert — raising new questions about why police weren’t able to pinpoint the gunman’s location sooner.

Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest Festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m. and left 58 people dead, with hundreds more injured.

They had credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now didn’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd.

Nor can they explain how hotel security failed to alert the cops that a hotel guest on the 32nd floor had just fired a fusillade of 200 shots through a door into the hallway, wounding the guard. Would have been useful intel.

OK, we all understand the fog of war, which rarely lifts in the immediate aftermath. But this kind of confusion reeks of cover-up.

Comments

[rse]

I have to agree with pam geller, which is a string of words I have never typed before. I think it makes the ISIS claims of radicalisation more likely.

The implications of a jihad attack have caused many involved to try to control the story.

[henry]

I still say Paddock was hatched in building 7 and imprinted at Groom Lake.

Nothing which makes sense will be released on this shooting. Ever.

[narciso]

Because it doesnt make sense, before the fact they could hold him on firing on an officer, which would attempted murder, then what?

[narciso]

I wondered where the video surveilance was, he was drilling the floor for the tripods.

[jimmyk]

So can I infer Campos was unarmed? And that there was no (or at least very limited) armed security at the hotel? And what is the explanation for Campos not communicating immediately that he'd been shot?

[joan]

My reaction to "From Hero to Zero" revelation -- this is bullshit! How in the world could police give distorted information out to the public for the last week? Were they lying all of this time?

This story makes no sense.

[Jim Eagle]

jimmyk,

It was stated before that the security guard was unarmed.

Drip by agonizing drip, we will learn more by Christmas.

[Threadkiller]

The time line changed regarding when Campos was shot, but not when he identified the room to the cops AFAICT.

He waited 20min after being shot to tell the cops, who had been sent to the wrong floor, to go up one more floor and head to the room where he had been shot.

[narciso]

So that whole 60 minutes tableau, down the memory hole?

[Threadkiller]

Pretty much, narciso.

They were trotted out as 1st on scene key witnesses and they didn't mention this important part of the timeline?

[Jim Eagle]

A number of us on a Vet's blog have been thinking out loud how the NFL can redeem itself. Well if they can last until the Super Bowl next year, they may want to consider having Gene Simmons as the half-time show.

Sort of like this: https://www.youtube.com/embed/5MtdIO23MKM

And the middle of the performance have everyone say the Pledge of Allegiance like they did in the Texas and Louisiana concerts.

Well, at least I will get an A for effort:)

[Threadkiller]

Joshua Bitsko: We're told that security is taking fire from a suspect on the 29th floor. And that we had other officers that were identifying the suspect was in a room on the 32nd floor. So we're thinking multiple shooters at this point.

The three officers zeroed in on the 32nd floor just after a hotel-security guard named Jesus Campos encountered heavy fire--200 rounds shot into the hallway from behind Stephen Paddocks's door.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-officers-describe-storming-shooter-stephen-paddock-hotel-room/

[Threadkiller]

If we had reporters they would be looking for the entity that told the officers this gem:

We're told that security is taking fire from a suspect on the 29th floor.

Wasn't there a report that the dude that was immediately under the maniacs room responded to the hellish chaos by turning on his police scanner app?

Sounds like he had guard duty for either the maniac or the Fed's sting operation gone wrong.

[boatbuilder]

And by "drill," I'm pretty sure boatbuilder is using the proper term for what we usually call "drill bits."

Posted by: Extraneus | October 10, 2017 at 08:15 AM

Yah, yah...at least I spelled "masonry" correctly. :)

Ext is correct--it is a "masonry bit" which costs about $3, not a drill. Also--do not use a "hammer drill", whatever you do.

[Sue]

I read or saw early on that an ex-military person was in the room directly above the shooters and called the front desk about the shots being fired below him. I'm flabbergasted. He shot into the crowd after firing those 200 rounds.

[Sue]

When I first heard that someone had called the front desk, I didn't think that much about it thinking by then the cops knew where he was. Wrong.

[jimmyk]

He waited 20min after being shot to tell the cops, who had been sent to the wrong floor, to go up one more floor and head to the room where he had been shot.

He was shot at 9:59, Paddock began shooting at the crowd at 10:05, the cops arrived to the 31st at 10:12. Seems like a lot of the damage would have been done even if he had called them at 10:am and told them to come to the 32nd floor. His lack of (or mis-) communication is still puzzling.

[Porchlight]

Wasn't the original story that the security guard was actively involved in clearing the floor after he was shot?

This calls into question the entire timeline.

None of it has made any sense since the beginning.

[Sue]

Okay, he was 2 floors above, and he actually called the police not the front desk.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-chris-bethel-below-stephen-paddock-recalls-frantic-scene/

[jimmyk]

10:00pm, that is.

[Clarice Feldman]

It is puzzling but I think more a case of local police being unused to handling something like this than evidence of an elaborate plan to cover up anything, least of all an ISIS attack.

[narciso]

So campos was already on the 32nd floor, he looks into the hotel room and takes fire, apparently the shooter want good at close range, then he goes back and resumes his killing spree?

[Sue]

If I was the police, I would be looking at the security guard. I've watched enough tv crime dramas to know that the guard is always involved.

Just kidding, sort of. It took the police 20 minutes to find the room. WTH? WTH? The security guard knew the room and I'm assuming the hotel did too.

[Appalled]

The last paragraph of that link was heartbreaking, Sue.

[Sue]

Clarice,

I don't think local police are covering anything up. I think the Feds are. But for what reason, I don't know. I'm not going to rule out ISIS but I'm not going to rule it in either.

[Sue]

Narciso,

He started shooting the crowd after he shot the security guard, according to the new timeline. He didn't stop and start back up.

[Sue]

Appalled,

Yet it was.

[Porchlight]

They couldn't even get his check in date correct. LA Times finally reported Paddock checked in on the 25th, not the 28th. Buried in the story about the timeline change:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html

The change came after reports surfaced with photos of the food service receipts (dated 9/27) and the valet parking check in computer.

Those reports came from....wait for it....4chan/pol and Infowars.com.

[Threadkiller]

Las Vegas shooter: Kansas man was in room below at Mandalay Bay

http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article177047656.html

This is the scanner man who didn't hear 200 rounds hitting the guard before the massacre.

[narciso]

So its a corner room, how far from the elevator to the room, this is starting to sound as insane as smoking aces.

[Threadkiller]

200 rounds at lonely Campos is tough to believe. Did he switch weapons/magazines a few times while he was shooting through the door? If so, his rate of fire would have had distinct pauses and lasted over a longer period of time.

[Sue]

It does make you wonder how 200 rounds went through the door and only one hit the security guard in the leg.

[Extraneus]

I don't think local police are covering anything up. I think the Feds are.

Did somebody say that every time the sheriff is at the podium an FBI agent is standing next to him, making sure he doesn't say the wrong thing? I haven't seen any of the video, but that sounds ominous.

[Appalled]

Sue's link -- the guy above the shooter:

"I feel like I didn't do enough. I feel like I couldn't get a hold of somebody quick enough to let them know. And it felt like it took them too long to get over there, to take him out. To get him. And it's actually eating me up inside," said Bethel. "I just need to go home. That's my thing. I need to go home to my family and just process all of this."

TK's link -- the guy below the shooter

Days have passed, and he’s still in that room. Business calls. He’ll fly home Friday, back to his large family, including six children.

He never considered trying to change rooms. He considers the shooting a freak event, something that could happen anywhere. And there was no damage to his room, so why leave it?

I'm fascinated by the difference on how people process something like this.

[windansea]

He waited 20min after being shot to tell the cops, who had been sent to the wrong floor, to go up one more floor and head to the room where he had been shot.

Lombardo said the guard notified hotel security immediately after being shot, but that responding officers did not know this till they arrived at 32nd floor.

Someone is in deep dudu

http://abcnews.go.com/US/latest-las-vegas-mass-shooting/story?id=50367905

[Sue]

I'm wondering why the guard was still on the floor after 20 minutes if he had been shot? Wouldn't you seek medical attention?

[Sue]

Police said they encountered him (the security guard) when the got to the 32nd floor.

[Threadkiller]

Sounds like hotel security or Fed sting operation jackholes tried to stop the maniac discreetly after Campos took one bullet. The maniac then unloaded on them with the hail of door bullets, turned around and blasted the country venue.

The Sunday night administrative crew at the hotel figured it was best to keep their mouths shut and told Campos how you get promotions to cush positions in Vegas. "We will make you a hero if you can keep quiet."

Just a theory.

[Appalled]

Does anyone know what kind of wounds the security guard had? And why he was shot in the first place?

[Sue]

But if he was shot in the leg, why was he still on the floor when the police arrived? 20 minutes later? That's a long time, don't you think? I mean, unless you're special forces or something.

[Sue]

On the 32nd floor. He wasn't literally on the floor. Bad wording.

[Clarice Feldman]

http://libertyunyielding.com/2017/10/10/nfl-meltdown-blows-dam-msms-centralized-media-model/

Good article on how the NFL meltdown will affect the nets.

[Sue]

Won't it be something if Mr. Campos is here illegally?

[James D.]

I haven't seen any of the video, but that sounds ominous.

What has the FBI done lately that doesn't sound ominous?

[Threadkiller]

Sue, I remember it being said that he was on the 32 floor when the cops arrived, but looking at the 60min transcript above, it seems that clever wordplay is afoot.

I think it is more BS.

[windansea]

Threadkiller | October 10, 2017 at 10:13 AM

The 200 bullets were shot thru door at Campos, not Police, when they got there it was all over and paddock was dead.

Paddock, who had placed security cameras outside his room, shot Campos through the door of his suite, which was outfitted with a camera to survey the hallway, as was a room service cart parked outside. Police said Paddock fired 200 rounds into the hallway.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html

[Sue]

This NYTs article says Campos was protecting a maintenance person from being injured. Not sure how, since he was unarmed, but that could be a possible explanation as to why he didn't leave the floor. Or maybe he couldn't get back to the elevator or stairs without going past the room where he had already been shot.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/09/us/jesus-campos-las-vegas-shooting.html

[Threadkiller]

Appalled, early on it was said that Hero Campos was discharged from the hospital with the bullet still in his leg. He was going to have it removed later when the hospitals were done with the more serious cases.

That is a pretty slow rifle round to lodge in tissue at close range. Sure, the door would have chopped off some speed, but it would suggest that he was pretty far from the door or got caught by a fragment.

[Sue]

If he was shooting through his door at the security guard, where did those 200 rounds end up? Was no one in the room across from him?

[Buckeye]

Almost seems like the Feds are controlling information flow to control the narrative.

They wouldn't do that, would they?

Has anyone conclusively refuted the observation that Paddock was the guy with the pussy hat and pink t-shirt on at the libtard rally in Reno?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

So basically those 58 or whatever people died and hundreds were wounded needlessly.

[Threadkiller]

The 200 bullets were shot thru door at Campos, not Police, when they got there it was all over and paddock was dead.

I know that they weren't shot at police.

My tinfoilery suggests that there was a group between Campos getting shot and the Cops arriving.

An in-house cleaning crew that was out matched.

[Appalled]

So, if Campos is shot through the door before everything starts happening, why was he shot? He has no occasion to knock on the guy’s door, unless Paddock has already started shooting.

And 200 rounds? Why didn’t that attract attention before the guy starts blasting the concert?

[windansea]

so two big questions

1. Why didn't hotel security notify cops immediately after Campos was shot.

2. Paddock fired 200 bullets thru the door at Campos 6 minutes before he started firing at concert. Where is an audio recording of this. Saw an interview last night of the guy in a room below shooter after new timeline was released, he didn't seem to recall or hear the initial 200 round firings, but the interviewer was kinda stupid and didn't press the issue correctly.

Possible that the bullets fired into interior of hotel less audible than when he started firing out the window at concert?

[Threadkiller]

The double door that he blasted through seems to be at the end of a hallway. Bullets that kept a relatively straight trajectory would have sailed down a long hallway.

[windansea]

why was he shot?

He heard Paddock drilling holes, Paddock saw him with his cameras outside the door.

[Clarice Feldman]

Appalled, apparently Paddock had a camera hidden in the food cart outside his door and could see the guard approaching.

Steyn at his best:https://www.steynonline.com/8169/contradictions-and-condescension

[anonamom]

Happy to see we are going to figure out WTH happened in Las Vegas, because I am totally clueless/confused. The KS guy in the room below said the glass fell AFTER the shooting--what's with that? And why no bullet casings like ankle deep in the room??

-----

buckeyeThe trick is finding something to snack on that satiates hunger without adding a bunch of calories.

Agree completely. Why my nut caution this morning!

It's not really "the hunger," it's the salty/crispy/amomi/comfort/serotin surge that one is generally looking for in a snack, btw.
(per my cousin who lost 120 pounds in 12 months. Psycholgist/nutritionist/PT people alternated weeks w the group meeting. HFLC--high fat, low carb. New lifestyle. Daily movement. Off now four years.)

Why the crispy Cheetos are soooo popular--totally engineered #FakeFood to meet the "needs" of the snacker--with Cheez Its coming in a close second!! At least for us crispy/salty people--I am not a "chocolate" person.

And after years, I still haven't found anything to replace those corn chips with the guacamole.

If anyone does--PLEASE share!!

[Clarice Feldman]

why didn't the guard immediately notify the cops? Maybe he called the front desk first? Maybe he was stunned or in shock and not acting rationally?

[narciso]

The cameras that weren't recording. One is struck by the lack of presented media evidence.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I suspect Ralph may be correct about MM's plaster.
I have never heard of, nor encountered plaster over either lath or sheetrock that one can't drive a nail through, and it doesn't sound like the house is new enough for metal studs.

[windansea]

why didn't the guard immediately notify the cops? Maybe he called the front desk first?

As stated above, Campos notified hotel security immediately after being shot at 9:59pm. Somehow this little tidbit never got relayed to LVPD

[windansea]

Also, you would think that Mandalay security would dispatch some of their guys up to 32nd floor to help Campos after being shot? Instead appears they sent the maintenance guy.

[narciso]

No he had to bust through the double doors why again, I can understand the windows, tell me a story that makes sense. I feel like lt Colombo.

[Old Lurker]

James "What has the FBI done lately that doesn't sound ominous?"

Within the span of my lifetime we have gone from generally believing things said by our governments at all levels to actively disbelieving them all. Only a fool would take what they say at face value.

[Extraneus]

Hmm. So is some of this confusion due to cops trying to cover up the fact that they could have offed the guy before he killed all those people? Why would the feds want to project the LVPD?

[Extraneus]

protect

[RattlerGator]

OK, we all understand the fog of war, which rarely lifts in the immediate aftermath. But this kind of confusion reeks of cover-up.

Posted by Tom Maguire on October 10, 2017

Really busy week; haven't been able to go back and read old posts / comments but I think I've been proven accurate when tried to suggest the investigatory process would likely (of necessity) involve the delivery of information that could not be relied upon.

Fog of war analogies is totally improper, it seems to me, as is an opinion that this kind of "confusion" (???) reeks of cover-up.

It reeks of an investigation with quite probably serious actors at issue and possibly still at-large.

We need to step back and allow this thing to naturally breathe in a real way, not a TV / CSI bogus kind of way IMHO.

[Sue]

We need to step back and allow this thing to naturally breathe in a real way, not a TV / CSI bogus kind of way IMHO.

Why? Are we hindering the investigation in some way by speculating?

[henry]

For some of us the speculation is more boring than the Monte Hall problem argument.

[Buckeye]

It reeks of an investigation with quite probably serious actors at issue and possibly still at-large.

Actors aligned with entities that have much more in mind than tampering with voting machines.

[sbw]

henry, the security guard was shot through door number one.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Indiana University is partnering with the state government to combat the opioid crisis.

IU will invest $50 million in the next 5 years.

All well and good, but where did IU get that amount of money?

I hope this means they will be cutting the hiring of diversity counselors and such.

[henry]

sbw, Monte Hall shot the goat through door #3.

[anonamom]

RG, are we to be like my momma, who quotes what Gail King and George Stephanopolis say each morning to me as fact?

I agree w Sue--speculate away JOMers!
Tell me what your brother the SS guy is saying! My sister in the casino business has been of no use. Though they do not use any kind of scatter xray at the door, at least not east coast---

Though I don't object to leaving it one thread, like that endless probability discussion....and that football inflation thing...

and I hear porch and clarice saying "and the carbs discussion..."

[Clarice Feldman]

About the glass falling. In my experience eye witness testimony is the very least reliable. Forensic evidence when gathered honestly is the most reliable. In an incident as horrific as this the rule applies in spades.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

henery,

It's swhy I gave up speculating about it. Every time a new fact is uncovered, it seems to undermine another fact we thought we knew. This is just the latest example.

It's almost like someone just wrote down a bunch of random clues, put them in a bowl, and had the sheriff draw one or two every day to read to us.

[Sue]

For some of us the speculation is more boring than the Monte Hall problem argument.

But certainly on topic for this thread, no?

[Beester]

At this point, I don’t trust anything the LVPD or FBI are saying. We don’t even KNOW that Paddock was the shooter. Heck, he could have been offed by the ‘security guard’. I’m letting it breathe as RG says and looking for a crispy/salty snack.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

James O'Keefe‏ @JamesOKeefeIII
Replying to @realDonaldTrump @nytimes

Don't worry, @realDonaldTrump, we recorded the @nytimes...

[Extraneus]

Did anyone buy the idea that Dove soap made a commercial ad that had a black woman washing with Dove soap and thus turning into a white woman?

Total B.S.

Wonder why they caved so fast?

[Threadkiller]

Maybe he was stunned or in shock and not acting rationally?

Maybe he had an undiagnosed mental disease?

[Threadkiller]

People actually understood RG's comment as an instruction for us to shut up?

Ridiculous.

[Clarice Feldman]

Project Varitas takes on the NYT:https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=62&v=D5854-qAqkM

[Beester]

If you’re talking to me TK, no.

[narciso]

Like Las weeks Hawaii 5 0 were the dea agent was in cahoots with the restaranteur who was serving as the front for the drug smuggling.

They expect the emotions in this mass murder to obscure what actually went on.

[RattlerGator]

TK, it's a crazy world we live in sometimes. I mean, who here hasn't read *my* speculation and contributions to the speculation of others?

It was TM's conclusions that surprised me and led me to say we need to, IMHO, take a step back from that type of stuff.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Clarice,

Everyone should watch that immediately. I am watching now, and it is dynamite!

[windansea]

I think I've been proven accurate when tried to suggest the investigatory process would likely (of necessity) involve the delivery of information that could not be relied upon.

Tell you what, if in the future the LVPD/FBI solves this crime and it comes out that they misled the press and public on purpose in order to solve it, then you can pat yourself on the back.

Currently, they are looking like keystone cops and have severely eroded their credibility.

[Clarice Feldman]

U'm with you, windansea.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

ChiTown Lurker points to this as an associated article with the O'Keefe tapes:

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/10/u-s-media-help-russia-destabilize-united-states/

[James D.]

Within the span of my lifetime we have gone from generally believing things said by our governments at all levels to actively disbelieving them all. Only a fool would take what they say at face value.

Exactly.

If our government officials (or media figures) don't like it, if they're upset or offended or alarmed by our distrust, they have it in their power to fix things.

They need to start telling us the truth themselves. And, more importantly, they need to not only "call out" their colleagues who don't, but refuse to work with them, shun them, do all they can to remove those colleagues from their positions.

Do that, and we'll trust them again.

I won't be holding my breath.

[Appalled]

Under the new set of facts -- we have a very long gap between the security guard dodging 199 bullets in a hallway, and taking one in the leg. I know nothing about firearms, ordinance, and accuracy, and our villain was shooting through a door, but I am surprised the security guard was not hit more than that.

And, I guess it surprises me that nobody seemed to have heard anything. I assume there was nobody else on that floor of the hotel. Is that correct?

OK, so security guard calls the front desk quickly. I don't know what protocol is here (and, if the guy is an undocumented sort, calling the police is not what he'd do). But his conduct does not puzzle me.

But why so long for the cops to get to the room? That's where the theories come in -- until the police have a story that fills in the gap, speculation will have its day.

[Neo]

Given the European Union's penchant for meddling in conflicts elsewhere in the world, such as the Middle East, perhaps I can make a friendly suggestion. Israel ought to offer her services to Spain and the EU as an "honest broker," and negotiate an end to the Catalonian crisis on the basis of "land for peace."

[Neo]

There is some stat out there that goes something like ...

In a firefight of persons with handguns at a distance of roughly 15 feet. In less than 10% of the cases, is anybody actually hit by one of the rounds.

[Neo]

Under the new set of facts -- we have a very long gap between the security guard dodging 199 bullets in a hallway, and taking one in the leg.

Perhaps, Paddock used to be part of the 'A Team'

[Michael (fpa P4F)]

empirically I know it's better to switch because simulations confirm it.
Posted by: Porchlight | October 09, 2017 at 04:39 PM

Not sure if anyone has commented yet - still Just One Minute Ten Hours behind . . .

Porchlight - Don't know if this helps, since Iggy and boris have both done yeoman's work to explain the logic and odds of the MH game.

But . . . Think of it as a prize drawing, with three tickets offered for a chance to win, and the promise that one of the three tickets *is* the winning ticket.

If you are given your choice of any of the three, and Monty keeps the other two, then you have a '1 in 3' chance of winning, and Monty has a '2 in 3' chance of winning.

*If* Monty offered to swap his two tickets for your one ticket, you should jump at the chance to swap since it would double your odds of winning.

Despite showing you that one of his tickets was a losing ticket, you are still effectively swapping your '1 in 3' chance of winning for his '2 in 3' chance of winning when you switch from your original choice to his two tickets.

Knowing one of his tickets is a loser is just a distraction, since you implicitly understood that he *must* have had at least one losing ticket (there's only one car, and he has two tickets, duh!), and just serves to prevent contestants from focusing on the underlying odds.

Hope this helps!

[exdemocrat]

not sure what to make of this: https://www.newsmediawatchdog.com/single-post/2017/10/08/Important-Witness-In-Las-Vegas-Massacre-Kills-Himself-And-Daughter-After-FBI-Raid

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Oh, look. Carter wants to meddle.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/10/report-this-93-year-old-former-president-thinks-he-can-save-the-world-from-a-second-korean-war/?utm_campaign=atdailycaller&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social

[Neo]

The Secret Place Where Music Shows Get Made

This is a stone's throw from my brother's house