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November 30, 2017



matt's 10:22p on psychiatry and law and the law and values is a must read. previous thread, obviously.

(I'd never seen this, but boy, is it true!

As they say, get three psychiatrists in a room and you'll get 6 opinions. So that confusion enters into any analysis.



Nemesis and Hubris are two of my favorite Greek words. Hubris, overweened arrogance, the pride that destroys. Nemesis, swift winged avenger for those guilty of hubris. A combined concept I put right up there with the Gods of the Copybook Headings.

In our day and age we do not spend enough time thinking about the concepts that should assist in directing our lives. To our detriment as a society we focus on fast foods, talking heads, thirty second sound bites and immediate gratification. When we lost our religion we lost shame as a motivating factor @nd we lost our moral compass. We believe when we are told that men can be women and vice versa. We fail to identify the Twoheys in the world.




Rubio Schumer got shellacked by the WSJ editorial page. Seems he wants to make taxes refundable up to the full payroll tax amount (i.e. "employer" portion or unemployment insurance /Soc security from employer), and pay for it by taxing those evil corporations. Someone feed him to the alligators.


FOX reporting that the Imran Awan IT Case is going to be delayed because of the Lap Top tied ti Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

A court date for Imran Awan has been postponed by more than a month. FOX says his attorney wants to block prosecutors from using evidence off of DWS's government Laptop.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Zounds! The subject of this thread seems like the final nail in the coffin for that dratted, orange haired...ZZZzzzzzzz


I'm moving this over, because throwing mud, then trying to gaslight the people who point out you are throwing mud, and insulting them by implying they are intolerant synchophants is so not "making a mild criticism."

NeverTrump Lite---them's fighting words in these parts, pardner! ;-)

So true. All I did was offer mild criticism of a single facet of VDH's opinions and then all hell broke loose.

No, that is not what you did.
You name called, labelled HIM, and you were wrong. That's why what resulted, resulted.

Go back and read your post that triggered it. I did, before I initially responded, then twice more as things unfolded. to be sure I had taken it correctly.

Which is why I love this place. It is all about the accuracy. If mistakes get made, they get corrected and in general, expeditiously

Robin, 10 Square Miles...yadda, yadda

My FB newsfeed is squawking about the part of the tax plan that will Force grad students to claim their tuition waiver for teaching as income. Boy howdy, the natives are angry. Apparently, the plebes don’t understand how higher education is structured.


Geraldo grovels:)

A) @GeraldoRivera

Sad about @MLauer great guy, highly skilled & empathetic w guests & a real gentleman to my family & me. News is a flirty business & it seems like current epidemic of #SexHarassmentAllegations may be criminalizing courtship & conflating it w predation. What about #GarrisonKeillor?

B) Fox News Statement on @GeraldoRivera's tweets:

"Geraldo's tweets do not reflect the views of Fox News or its management. We were troubled by his comments and are addressing them with him."

C) @GeraldoRivera

Reaction to my tweets today on #sexharassment makes clear
I didn't sufficiently explain that this is a horrendous problem
long hidden-Harassers are deviants who deserve what is coming
to them-Often victims are too frightened to come
forward in a timely fashion-I humbly apologize



I believe Credico is Russian. I think it translates to 'door-in-face', roughly.

Another Bob

What gene was Jerry Rivers born with that seemingly requires him to constantly behave like a self-centered jerk?


The troll with the grabby issues is grijalva, credico was a left wing comic in the 90s, if memory serves.

How about that Serbian apparatchik who did his best Goering impression I didn't even know who he wee?

Another Bob

Oh, and what about that insufferable jerk Keillor? You actually believe his modified, limited hangout, Jer?


Sorry back in the 80s, he is a protege of weasel. Kuntsler. A mayoral candidate supported by Larry David and roseanne barr just the new ware spy ring, snorfle.

Another Bob

Re. the congressional hush money - anyone think that Ryan's "comprehensive" solution will *not* involve continuing the payouts under a different sort of secrecy and continuing refusal to release the names?


Do you think if those grad students had to pay income tax on their tuition waiver they'd face the error of their decision to hang around studying anthropology or women's studies another two--four years while they are still young enough to learn to wire, plumb, or code??

Soooo many of them make short term economic choices that are very harmful long term, no?

And gosh, if that happens, then who will be grading those exams????


No wonder he was bosnian Croat, meaning he was more allied with us.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Someone (JNC?) asked me on the last page where the "petty as they are" VDH quote was from.
Tk wrote;
Here is a quote from yesterday by NeverTrumper Lite VDH

Voters may say that they find Trump puerile and repellent while in private enjoying that he is as petty as they are and hits back at those who long ago needed a smack. That disconnect could explain why polls are now less relevant and why those who voted for Trump can fudge and mislead about their politics more than Trump himself does. Trump’s take-no-prisoners style may serve some people’s vicarious need to push back against the progressive trajectory of the country, in a way that voting for a Cruz or a Rubio in the primary did not.

I guess I'm a petty deplorable for applauding Trump's jab at the intern killer.

I enjoy how VDH invokes the two ineligible candidates as the benchmark for the proper battle against the progressive trajectory as opposed to what "some people's vicarious needs" have wrought.

VDH is the king of the backhanded compliment.

Posted by: Threadkiller | November 29, 2017 at 09:48 AM

Where the quote is from I don't know and how people want to characterize TK's comment about it is up to them. I think he has a point that is getting lost in the #nevertrumperlight argument. I wouldn't call VDH that but he does seem to hold his nose occasionally at the company he keeps on the Trump train.

Miss Marple

Good morning!

Tomorrow the electricians come and I will have my computer working again! Hurray!

I was reading th end of the last thread and want to say that it was me (quoting my sister) who said that Trump knows things.

Besides having luxury hotels and golf courses where employees would overhear things, he attended a lot of social events where he was a non-drinker in a room full of people drinking and letting their mouths run. And let me remind you guys, he spent 13 seasons making The Apprentice on Mat Lauer's network, NBC.

When I read his book he described how he evaluated the properties he bought, and it was by walking the. Neighborhoods and talking to the shopkeepers and other tenants, cab drivers, etc. it is not the nconceivable that he gleaned a lot of information free m make-up girls, lighting. Technicians, etc, He wouldn't discard information later or that, as he illustrated in his book,

I also consider him heroic. He risked everything to go for the presidency. The Clinton's planned to destroy him when they won, as a lesson to others who might gut challenge them. They will panned to destroy his business, his family, and probably imprison him for the rest of his life. I consider this a very high form of sacrifice. Apparently Mattis does, too, or he wouldn't have signed on.

Whew. That is a lot of phone typing! I need more coffee!,

Miss Marple

I really really want my computer and keyboard back.

Robin, 10 Square Miles...yadda, yadda

Anonamom at 7:16: precisely. I pointed out that disrupting the academic world is exactly what is being attempted with this. I might get unfriended by some people for stating that.

Robin, 10 Square Miles...yadda, yadda

I am a petty Trump supporter and proud of it. I am perfectly happy to have the “holier than thou” set eating crow daily, and I enjoy the jabs the President makes since I’m not courageous enough to say it myself.


Ig, had TK simply pointed that out, without the erroneous labelling, that is what would have been discussed.
Or not, if people agreed with his take.
But that is not what he did, is it?

(And I think everyone who has read VDH for a while knows he puts himself in the "fallen man" category, so he well may including himself in that "voter" term. He certainly described just about every single POTUS supporter I know, myself included. And even a number of NeverTrumpers/GOPe's I still have to interact with!
Me, petty???---sure, at times.)

I'm not going to fault anyone here for not tolerating gratuitous (and erroneous) name calling.


They figured it out:


Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

As I said I wouldn't call VDH a nevertrumper of any sort.
He has spent a good deal of time trying to educate the NRO crowd on the subject.
But he also gets off gratuitous lines about Trump's style and supporters occasionally that I find, well, gratuitous and seemingly a sop to his NRO tidy toga pals.

Miss Marple

I see Breitbart has an article in which Orrin Hatch says President Trump is one of the best presidents he has served under.


Good Morning! narciso@7:09...I said to hubby,does that guy think he's Goering? Was that trial held at The Hague? Great security.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Enjoyable comment at Powerline;

"This just in: NBC News Anchor and Olympic Dressage Gold Medalist Brian Williams claimed on the air that he is also a serial sexual predator, but nobody believes him."

J.Fred Muggs

Greetings from the Simian universe.

I see someone posted a photo of me kissing Dave Garroway on the cheek. I did that a lot and it was before sexual harrassment in the workplace became evil.

I've learned the hard way to never try that with a gorilla but red-ass Baboons seem to enjoy it.


I responded on the previous thread.

If you want another VDHer thread to proclaim him the Grand Marshal, knock yourselves out.

You are overreacting, IMO.


Ig, I read what you call "gratuitious lines" as his attempt to reach out to the (what are they??) who, based on "Trump's style and supporters", were (still ARE!) willing to let this war be won by the evil doers.

Maybe because it was only recently that I didn't preface most of my statements of support with "he wasn't my first choice--or my 16th" in "mixed company, if I felt compelled to try to educate the closed-minded. Trying to establish that I'm not white supremacist or whatever.

Gotta confess--I don't read him very closely any longer, as I agree to an extent with whomever posted yesterday that it's the same essay. And he had me convinced more than a year ago.

Jim Eagle

Wasn't that guy a Bosnian? I thought I heard that on one of the reports.

BTW, if you like sausage, you may not want to watch to much of the Senate debate on Tax Reform and/or the Conference deliberations.


Or not, if people agreed with his take.

My last comment on the previous thread addresses this.


Technically a Croat, one of those allies, in that long ago conflict.


Zuckerberg caught charging for non profit donations. read the last paragraph in this article, the "gofundme" sites charge even more.

Miss Marple

I see on Twitter that the Intern Killer says Trump has dementia and should be removed from office.

That sounds like desperation to me. Trump must have come close to the target.


Gotta confess--I don't read him very closely any longer

I do.


I think this was mentioned in the last thread:https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/11/29/deep-state-2-the-confirmation/



This is why they fired him in less than 24 hours, rather than let him resign:

In 2001, the woman said, Mr. Lauer, who is married, asked her to his office to discuss a story during a workday. When she sat down, she said, he locked the door, which he could do by pressing a button while sitting at his desk. (People who worked at NBC said the button was a regular security measure installed for high-profile employees.)

The woman said Mr. Lauer asked her to unbutton her blouse, which she did. She said the anchor then stepped out from behind his desk, pulled down her pants, bent her over a chair and had intercourse with her. At some point, she said, she passed out with her pants pulled halfway down. She woke up on the floor of his office, and Mr. Lauer had his assistant take her to a nurse.

The woman told The Times that Mr. Lauer never made an advance toward her again and never mentioned what occurred in his office.

Jim Eagle

For lyle, no truer words:

Captain Hate

We all like Steyn, right?


Ralph L

gratuitous and seemingly a sop to his NRO tidy toga pals.
I see that with Andrew Ferguson and a few others at the WS. It's annoying, but with VDH it seems more like an observation and less a pejorative.


Mr. Lauer asked her to unbutton her blouse, which she did.

Bizarre story, since it sounds entirely consensual. But why would she have "passed out"? There seems to be something missing in the account. Drugs? Violence?

Ralph L

she passed out
Who does he think he is, Kobe Bryant?
She waited 15 years to come forward?


Actually Obama was nit the first president of the law review, that was Charles Hamilton.


So fusion gaps colabiator Evan Perez is still touting his fan fiction


That was hilarious, CH!

Ralph L

I knew there was a nickname I'd forgotten besides Lieawatha.


TK, were't you the one who INACCURATELY said that VDH was one of the writers for the "Against Trump" NR issue?


Fusion gps collaborator,





Doesn't sound like she consented to being locked in with him. Should she have been 'braver' and resisted? Yes. But, I'm sure she was surprised by the turn this meeting took.

(Assuming she isn't making all this up)

Jane - not "in"

He has spent a good deal of time trying to educate the NRO crowd on the subject.


Please let me get this off my chest because it is the thing that bugs me the most at JOM. You don't have a clue about VDH's motives, or anyone at NR. Every time I read something like that involving someone who I actually know (not well) I want to reply with something like: "Your brother showed up at Thanksgiving because he knew you had bigger secrets".

There is no way I could know why someone I don't know does something, and it is particularly insulting because you do know that person.

Speculation doesn't offend me in the least, but the habit here is to declare motive as true when you have no idea or evidence.

And it certainly is not just you. Hell I probably have done it as well. And if you do it about people I don't know, I'm just fine with it.

Anyway, I'm venting about something that has bothered me for a long time, and usually arises when it concerns the people at NR. Many of who I disagree with, but would never ascribe the motives to them many here do, because I know them.

I don't want a fight, I just wanted to explain my angst. Please forgive me.

TK, VDH is a farmer, third or fourth generation, central CA. The root of his strong "legal immigrants only" stance. I suspect he is every bit if not more in touch with that "Chic Fil A crowd" as anyone who posts here.

I think like most of us here, he had somebody besides DJT he hoped to see as POTUS. I don't recall him ever opposing Trump, though his was one of the names on the cover of the infamous NRO "Never Trump" edition, so there is that. And I never read a word of it.

Posted by: anonamom | November 29, 2017 at 02:06 PM




We can't know Kristol's motives, but we do know they aren't noble or good.

Same for any of the other hysterical Never-Trumpers.


Doesn't sound like she consented to being locked in with him.

Perhaps, but it doesn't appear she objected. Unless unbuttoning her blouse at his request was a way to register objection. Never mind apparently allowing him to have his way with her.


Apologies Tk

Seems you are dealing some cards from the bottom of the deck...


No problem.

James D.

CH, Steyn is a treasure:

Mrs. Warren's fictional Cherokee ancestors in Oklahoma were renowned for their ability to spear the fast-moving Oklahoma crab. It's in the state song:

Where the crabs come sweepin' down the plain...

But then the white man came and now the Oklahoma crab is extinct, and at the Cherokee clambakes they have to make do with Mrs. Warren's traditional Five Tribes recipe for Cherokee Lime Pie

President Trump is absolutely right to mock Warren. It's the only appropriate response to her.


Hahaha! He also calls her "Dances with Clams."



For the record, I read that quote from iggy completely differently than jane did.

James D.

Jane @ 8:46

Everything you say is true. But here's the flip side:

99% of their audience doesn't know them, except through the public face they choose to present through what they write in their articles and say on their TV/video/radio appearances.

They are professional communicators, and I think it's fair to assume that, as such, they understand that the specific language they use, the tone they adopt, and the subjects they choose to address (or not address), all work to create an image - an image of their own choosing. If they don't want readers/viewers to assign suspicious motives to them, it's in their power to write/speak more clearly, to explain themselves better, or to alter their tone and use of language so as to put forth a different public face.

Old Lurker

Jane, I understand your pain but I think you are falling into exactly the trap that has enabled so many bad things to go on for so long, especially in DC and NYC and LA. Through overlapping circles, I too have cocktail party exposure to some of the biggest creeps in DC, and I must say that in those settings it is easy to forget that in their day jobs they are the enemy of everything I believe because in a social setting they come across as "just like us". Add in sharing schools for our children, or our churches on Sunday, and the line is even fuzzier.

So while it looks different "up close and personal", for the distance of JOM it is hard for many of us to give anybody at NRO an automatic pass for not being one with our enemy, and it is absolutely fair to take a code word or phrase as evidence against them. As professional communicators and opinion shapers, all of those people generally know exactly what they are doing and whom they are courting.

Inside the safety of the JOM tent, we can be and are brutal with each other especially when, for whatever reason, one of us looks at a person and his actions through some lens not unlike those on the left use to ignore all the bad things done by their stars. So we snap at you when your knowledge of what NRO people are like as people, just as we snap at MM for never ever seeing a way Trump might have goofed, or how Maryrose through her immense and admirable ability to see and hope for the best in (idiots like) Paul Ryan...and on and on and on.

I arrived at a place where I can chuckle and kid MM for sounding like a groupie, or Maryrose for sounding like Rodney King, or you for defending people with whom you have a bond the others do not have. In return, I know for sure that my friends here cut me the same sort of slack when "there he goes again".

Relax. Enjoy!

 Duda: Progressive and loving it!!

Franken gropes vet on USO tour.

Franken cleans out desk by 4.00pm


But he also gets off gratuitous lines about Trump's style and supporters occasionally that I find, well, gratuitous and seemingly a sop to his NRO tidy toga pals.

I think this is pretty accurate Iggy. Hey, the guys gotta make a living:)

Old Lurker

Oh no! What happened to my Hush Button?


Ron Johnson now a yes on the tax bill.



Am I incorrect in thinking the "NRO crowd" is the people who follow NRO's TDS in lock step and not so much the writers of the garbage?

I took Ig's comment to be a tale of two readers. The NRO Crowd and The Chick-fil-A Crowd, and VDH's true noble effort is to try to sway the NRO Crowd more so than knock the Chick-fil-A Crowd.

Robin, 10 Square Miles...yadda, yadda

I am a longtime Ricochet podcast listener, and they are affiliated with the NR crew in that they share a podcast channel and serve as guests on each other’s shows. While I’m sure the NR people are good people who care deeply about the country, their behavior towards Trump supporters on the podcasts has been so vile that I quit listening to all but the flagship podcast, and I’m seriously considering giving that one up as well.

I do miss Jonah Goldberg’s TV recommendations, and John Podhoretz’s cultural commentary, but as they cannot contain their impulse to toss insults towards the deplorables, I have to find other sources.


That would be the lorry ponnuru williamson braintrust, yes those are the ones

Jane - not "in"


I don't want you to give anyone a pass, just don't pretend that you know that VDH is writing something to educate Kevin Williamson.

It makes you (not you) sound stupid.

Then again if you (not you) want to sound stupid, I guess that's your choice.

Captain Hate

OL, did you note the Razzle Dazzle on capital gains in this great wonderful tax bill I mentioned on the last thread. Eddie certainly learned the ins and outs of soaking the taxpayers while sitting on Barney's Frank.

Old Lurker

Speaking of bullets dodged.

Thank God Trump won:



Donald J. Trump
The Chinese Envoy, who just returned from North Korea, seems to have had no impact on Little Rocket Man. Hard to believe his people, and the military, put up with living in such horrible conditions. Russia and China condemned the launch.


I don't think anyone is stupid enough to think Kevin Williamson can be educated.

Jane - not "in"


The last time I was on a cruise with JPod I had to leave the room whenever he spoke. I have never heard such an elitist in my life.

Captain Hate

John Podhoretz’s cultural commentary

I've mentioned here before that J-Pod is an outstanding movie reviewer whose tastes dovetail with mine. Movie critics are almost all overwhelmingly snotty and condescending assholes who trend very lib. I'm wondering if the Weinstein situation has given them a heads up on the nature of the beast they ride.


I noted the last dew y andreas briefly mentioned your current town of residence. Now coes was a midlevel player in Bain capital at one point

Old Lurker

You now what I think of Razzle Dazzle, Cap'n and yes indeed I saw that trap.

Jane you are being too thin skinned. Anybody paid to write and publish is fair game for his readers to think what his agenda might be. Sharing that thought with JOM is what JOM is about...and receiving those insights and suspicions from posters we have come to know is valuable since none of us sees every trick for what it is on first reading.

And while the parenthetical "(not you)" lets me off the hook, your 9:19 is offensive in its quickness to label a poster stupid, or willing to say the poster was choosing to be stupid by choice.

All you had to say is "I know VDH and do not believe he intended to XXX." If you had wanted to go further, you might have said "I know VDH and do not believe he intended XXX, but I see how some might jump to that conclusion."

Miss Marple

Old Lurker,

I know I sound like a groupie. Earlier this morning I posted some things I was dubious about regarding the President, to prove that my mind isn't completely gone. (The amnesia thing is frightening me, as now when I can't remember where I put something or a name escapes me, I get scared that my mind is going.)

I don't often post criticisms here or anywhere on line for one reason: I believe web sites are scoured by the left to provide information for avenues of attack. I have followed that policy since the Bush43 administration. I saw too many complaints about Bush on Free Republic show up in attack articles in places like Newsweek and the NYT.

This is perhaps self-important and possibly paranoid thinking, but that is how I operate.

President Trump has his failings, as do all mortal men. I choose not to list them here but I am sure others would be able to list a few. I rarely will do so.

To make you feel better, here is one: I think he is unwise to keep touting the high value of the current stock market, which is bound to go down eventually.

Captain Hate

Low IQs gotta low IQ:


Ralph L

CH, I've always used my highest priced (actually, the most recent) shares for my cost basis. Are you saying I should have used an average and that will change to lowest priced? I haven't been caught yet, but my tax rate was low.


Sorry he was part of the mustang group, not Bain.

Old Lurker

MM, I saw your post this morning and thought you were having another episode! :-)

You explained your Trump Posting policy several months back and that made it very easy for me to accept in that light.

Miss Marple

Well, after yesterday's multiple bombshells, things seem quiet this morning.

I guess I had better get some work done around here. Back later.

Old Lurker

MM "To make you feel better, here is one: I think he is unwise to keep touting the high value of the current stock market, which is bound to go down eventually."

I used to think that too, but I came to suspect he is doing it on purpose so he "owns the downside" when that happens and it will. And he knows it will. But then he is positioned to lay that off on not only the D's, but the jerks like McConnell, Ryan, Rubio, McCain and all the other U-R's.

I can see the 2020 posters now: "Clean out the stables in DC of the Uniparty, fill it with people who want to MAGA, and we will recover that half of your Retirement Account you lost when Bitcoin exploded the market in 2019 and then take your wealth to new heights! Give me a team!"


Dow 24,000.

Old Lurker

Speaking of...Henry.


I think he is unwise to keep touting the high value of the current stock market, which is bound to go down eventually.

Yes, though he will no doubt be able to assign blame when that happens (Congress or the Fed, most likely).

He probably should be more cautious about retweeting stuff that hasn't been verified, like those "Britain First" videos.

Captain Hate

Ralph, don't sweat it; what you've done is perfectly legal. And smart. What will change is how you do it going forward.

My guess is they will instruct the senders of the 1099s to use the lowest cost; again our dipshit Uniparty overlords creating busy work for other people. Unless we burn up the phone lines and make it known how unhappy we are with this.

Ralph L

Where are the bunnies?

Clarice Feldman

NY Post headline writers having a field day:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP2d3K2XUAAL0IZ.jpg


Daddy, Re: the last thread. I tried to find the old New Yorker cartoon of the street corner where two people bumped into each other. One person was a young lady with Dagmars [old time reference to a 1950s Cadillac]. The other was a Robert Reich/George Stephanopoulos-sized dude wincing with his hands covering the eye nearest the lady.

Captain Hate

Client 9 again? MOAR WINNING!

Clarice Feldman

Schlicter's 2017 predictions:https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2017/11/30/top-conservative-predictions-for-the-rest-of-2017-n2415773


Matt: We really need to have a serious discussion in this country of the very nature of our conduct towards one another.


My wife the elementary principal deals daily with multiple generations -- kids, parents, and grandparents -- who haven’t the slightest reference points to use, and the school system, legal system, and social services rules fail to serve them. What is more, the systems are incapable of acting on their structural inability to help these people.


Re: VDH.

I have reached the stage in my life that kerfuffles, once noted, need not be resolved.

That may be because my remembery doesn’t care to remember the details.

I am comfortable in that since, treating JOM as family, having stated a personal position to our own satisfaction, we can just move on.

Old Lurker

SBW, I trust you saw somebody's link the other day about George Washington's comments re societal rules and norms and what would happen without them?

Captain Hate

Btw in all the Pervnado activities, Slick nor Curb Dive have admitted no wrongdoing on his part. Or it's all been "litigated".

Miss Marple

John Conyers has been hospitalized in Detroit, according to Zerohedge.

Comment on Twitter: "Another boot, please."

Yeah, I haven't left yet.

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