NY Times Continues The Honest National Debate On Gun Control

The flailing NY Times wonders whether the US could be more like Australia, which famously banned semiautomatic rifles in 1996:

An Australian Model on Guns? Trump and Turnbull Reject Comparisons

The Australian PM gave the safe answer:

“It’s a completely different context, historically, legally and so forth,” Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said when asked about his country’s example during a news conference. “We are very satisfied with our laws,” he added. “But we certainly don’t presume to provide policy or political advice on that matter here. You have an amendment to your Constitution that deals with gun ownership. You have a very, very different history.”

The Times then provided a bit of context:

Australia embarked on one of the world’s most expansive efforts to rid a society of gun violence after a mass shooting in the Tasmanian town of Port Arthur on April 28, 1996, left 35 dead and many other injured. At that time, it was Australia’s 13th mass shooting in less than two decades and the deadliest such incident to date in the Western world. Even in the United States since then, only two episodes have eclipsed that death toll, the massacres in an Orlando gay nightclub in 2016 and at a Las Vegas concert last year.

In response to the 1996 shooting, John Howard, then Australia’s conservative prime minister, moved quickly, introducing a federal law to officially make guns a privilege, not a right. Gun owners were forced to provide a valid reason for owning a weapon, such as farming or hunting. Licensing rules were tightened, a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases was imposed and a national gun registry was established.

Semiautomatic rifles, like the one used at Port Arthur in 1996 and in Parkland last week, were severely restricted, and Australia engaged in a buyback program that took more than 650,000 firearms off the streets and generated attention around the world.

Gun control advocates in the United States regularly point to Australia when the other side says that new laws would not make a difference. President Barack Obama cited Australia as a model after a shooting in Oregon in 2015 and Hillary Clinton, running to succeed him against Mr. Trump, said the Australian approach was “worth considering.”

13 mass shootings in less than two decades and none afterwards. OK, impressive. But left unasked and unanswered is this: in the US we have had plenty of mass shootings with handguns (e.g., Giffords, VA Tech). How did the Australian ban on rifles end those, or why do we think a ban on rifles would end mass shooting here? 

The answer is that unlike the US, Australia had very strict handgun controls for years prior to the 1996 semiautomatic rifle ban. I haven't run down all 13 mass shootings mentioned above but per Wikipeda, four infamous ones - Milperra, Hoddle Street, Queen Street, and Strathfield -  involved shotguns or rifles, not handguns. So sure, banning semiautomatic rifles would be expected to make a major impact.

But don't take my word for it! Jerry Ratcliffe is a crime prevention authority who Tweeted this last fall:

Gun crime in the UK and Australia was already low because of strict gun control. Emphasis on strict gun control, not banning. Key.

I probably shouldn't single out the NY Times. This sort of omission helps bolster their narrative but even John Lott failed to make that obvious point in a recent Fox News column titled:

US gun control advocates exaggerate benefits of Australia's gun restrictions

Well. Plenty of people on one side of the debate grasp that "assault weapons", semiautomatic rifles and pistols are all deadly and that often one could substitute for another. For example, many people believe that if Nikolas Cruz had been obliged to carry a semiautomatic rifle with a wooden stock and no mount for a bayonet or grenade launcher it would not have been a fearsome "assault rifle" but seventeen people would still be dead. On the other side of the debate are folks like the NY Times editors fulminating that since he used an "assault weapon" we need to ban those.

Now, the Las Vegas shooter was firing at long range and needed a semiautomatic rifle. Cruz, at Parkland, probably could have killed a lot of people with handguns, which also seems to be the case for most of the recent shootings. Per the Mother Jones mass shooting data base going back to 1982, of 97 incidents involving 143 weapons, over half were handguns.

Banning semiautomatic rifles, if the Times wants to back that, may well reduce the number of mass shootings and reduce the casualties. Just for example, the four shameful cops at Parkland might have entered the school with pistols drawn if they heard handgun, rather than rifle fire. However, a reduction on the number of mas shootings similar to that in Australia seems utterly implausible.

PILING ON: Slicks Versus Hicks: As an illustration of the rural/urban divide The Times says that the rifle ban "took more than 650,000 firearms off the streets", although most of those mean street were in rural areas where people were hunting.

And do note the absence of terrifying 'assault weapon' among the stacks of semiautomatic rifles turned in.

Finally, a companion piece contrasting Australia and the US also fails to note the pre-1996 handgun rules.

Comments

[henry]

Good morning Clarice. Fine pieces!

[rse]

That report was issued at the World Government Summit held about ten days ago in Dubai https://www.worldgovernmentsummit.org/annual-gathering/2018/agenda

Anthony Quest of cnn is one of the co-hosts, which rather puts their claim that their reporting must be deferred to as the source is what determines what is fake news to be even more horrendous.

If you go to a later day cass sunstein is also one of the speakers. goldie hawn is there pushing her mindfuloness curriculum and peter will want to note there are entire sessions on mindfulness.

[Captain Hate]

As an aside, when I was a kid they were called "chuckholes." Was that a local name? I remember hearing the term "potholes" in some stories about them from the east coast, but now we have the term used here.

We're a mobile society so people bring terms they're used to. They use both descriptions here but potholes is mainly by the interloping yinzers from Pennsyltucky.

This year is particularly bad because we've had so many warm spells where it rains a lot and the water seeps down into the poorly sealed fissures by the AT&T dickweeds having paid 30 pieces of silver to the crooked pols to tear up a new road to install their fiber optic cables; then when the temperature subsequently drops off a cliff the water freezes and kablooey, instant rim destroyer.

[narciso]

Is charen trying to get hired by MSNBC, if so why?

Great pieces btw clarice.

[rse]

Richard Quest, not anthony. Apparently he is their main business reporter for cnn intl and used to work for the bbc.

[Clarice Feldman]

Thanks. RSE--I've no doubt such lunacy is not confined to localities, though Browar and Miami-Dade chock full of elderly voters who are easiy herded and a rotten local press may be the worst of it..

[Captain Hate]

Is there a good place to find an objective report of Schiff or shinola's great pile of nothing?

Can Patterico be more of a cloying suckup to Tapper?

[DrJ]

Clarice should expect an Instalanche!

[narciso]

The latter, captain, they mostly liquid papered the original memo, to give it more flare!!!

[Captain Hate]

Browar and Miami-Dade chock full of elderly voters who are easiy herded

With God as my witness, I am not nor will I ever be easily herded.

[sbwaters]

gentlejim: Do you shot IDPA, IPSC or general defensive pistol?

IDPA because it was available at the Rod & Gun Club I joined after my aged father turned over his guns to me.

I was 50 years rusty and, while I wouldn’t have been a danger to myself or others, I was not as comfortable or practiced as I thought I needed to be.

I do have to warn you that a box or two a week of practice leads to reloading. Reloading doesn’t save money; it leads to more practice.

--
Iggy, I clearly had a misspent youth while you were studying. ;-)

[Porchlight]

What the guns look like is irrelevant.

Same with the 1st amendment. They didn't have semi-automatic rifles in 1791? They didn't have the internet either.

[narciso]

A runner up for that prize about nonsense:

https://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/02/peter-sloterdijk-is-known-for.html

[Porchlight]

Activism 101: Try not to look so happy when you're standing on a pile of warm bodies

[henry]

Note the colonists had rifles, the military had muskets. More power than the army was the norm in those days.

[Captain Hate]

Exactly, Porch; the Constitution was written as a document to guarantee to citizens freedom from oppression and we've had a series of would be tyrants, mainly with dogshit law degrees, obfuscate that.

[Porchlight]

.

.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

SBW, my youth was something of a Huck Finn affair, minus the kidnappings, runaway slaves murders and crossdressing, but it was most assuredly not misspent studying. :)

[sbwaters]

Thank you Clarice and Sundance. As the rot is exposed, more will be revealed in the MSM.

[Momto2]

Great Pieces, as always, Clarice.

This scandal, exposed by Sundance, reminds me of the Atlanta schools cheating scandal. They needed to improve scores on standardized tests. Why? - To receive $ and recognition. So how to do that?

Many of us would think - well duh! - educate the students - find new methods, engage the parents in working with them at home, set up some special help groups for certain students, etc.

But not the Atlanta public school hierarchy. Their go-to idea was to cheat! Erase the wrong answers and fill in the correct ones, have teachers meet after school in little "fix-it" sessions, turn in the improved tests and - voila! - amazing improvement in test scores! "These teachers must be geniuses. This superintendent must be a miracle worker! Let's give her $500,000+ in bonuses."

This was only uncovered because someone noticed the improvements were statistically impossible and started to investigate.

I know you all remember this mess but isn't there a parallel in the idea that to stop arresting students who commit crimes is the answer? On paper, they have "reduced crime" and that results in $$$ paid to these geniuses who decided the best way to look good on paper is to cheat/lie!

Who has suffered due to these types? Not them - they walk away with their bonuses, their retirement, etc. It's the students who pay for their schemes. In Atlanta, they paid with useless diplomas given to kids who couldn't read at a 3rd-grade level and, sadly, in Florida 14 students paid with their lives.

[Extraneus]

GOP primary season a key obstacle to gun legislation

A key obstacle to new gun legislation in Republican controlled Washington is the calendar. The season for nominating candidates to run in the midterm is just days away and it begins in the heart of conservatism: Texas.

Gun rights is a visceral issue for many committed Republicans — the sort who tend show up in congressional primaries in red states and partisan-drawn districts. Indeed, an increasing number are motivated solely by the Second Amendment.

...

“When it gets to going after law-abiding citizens and their abilities to [exercise] the Second Amendment, that’s where it’s going to get a little dicey for many of us,” Rep. Mark Walker, R-N.C., said Friday during a brief interview with the Washington Examiner. In 2016, Trump won Walker’s district by nearly 15 percentage points.

It’s also primary season for the Democrats, and that could also contribute to gridlock on gun legislation.

Liberal voters are adamantly opposed to Trump, and they despise the National Rifle Association, the nation’s premier gun-rights organization. Democratic candidates could face heat from the Left if they work with the president, particularly on firearms policy that doesn’t meet the party’s standards for substantial gun control — or perhaps worse, is supported by the NRA.

“If you’re from a progressive district, you don’t want to be seen siding with Trump and the NRA, even on a background-check bill,” said a Democratic campaign consultant, who requested anonymity in order to speak candidly.

[Extraneus]

At least they ended the discounts! (And motivated a bunch of people to join the NRA.)

[Davod]

Isaiah Jenning's repeating flintlock rifle.Semi-automatic flintlock.

"The gun takes twelve individual, superposed loads of powder and ball, stacked one on top of the other, and has twelve individual touchholes, each with a swivel cover that also helps to position and align the lock as it slides from the forward position toward the rear, in order to align the shots in reverse order. This is pretty impressive stuff for the time."
Includes a photo.

https://technabob.com/blog/2012/09/04/12-shot-repeating-flintlock-rifle/

[Extraneus]

Some blasts from the past:

NRA Membership Surges By 100,000 In Wake Of Sandy Hook ... - Huffington Post

...

Post-Newtown, NRA membership surges to 5 million - USA Today

And this from yesterday:

Get ready for the biggest surge in gun purchases and NRA membership since Obama was President.

I'm looking forward to the numbers, and my new dufflebag.

[Momto2]

Why does the Daily Mail always have better photos of events in our own country than any of the MSM?

Here are the good cops and a better photo than I've seen anywhere of Scot Peterson. If you scroll down there are more photos of the victims and again, some are better and different than the ones I've seen elsewhere.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5431965/The-hero-cops-ran-Florida-shooter.html

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--An Australian Model on Guns?--

I prefer the American model.

[Extraneus]

Florida Lawmaker Calls on Governor to Remove Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel from Office

Rep. Bill Hager (Boca Raton), the chairman of the Florida House of Justice Appropriations, has called on Gov. Rick Scott to remove Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel – a power the governor has under Florida law – from his post for neglect of duty and incompetence in regards to the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

In his letter to the governor on Saturday, Hager said that various media outlets reported that the School Resource Officer, Scot Peterson, and three deputies under Sheriff Israel’s command “were on campus at the time of the attack and chose to take cover themselves rather than stepping up to protect our students.”

Rep. Hager also mentioned the number of times police were called to Nikolas Cruz’s home.

“The Sheriff was fully aware of the threat this individual presented to the community and chose to ignore it,” Rep. Hager said.

[Captain Hate]

According to the Horde, a parent on Rupert's Sunday Infotainment Hour is scorching the school guard who stayed outside. Naming and shaming.

[Porchlight]

I hope the others are named, too, Cap'n.

I want to know if they were under orders not to enter the school.

[hoyden]

MM; "when I was a kid they were called "chuckholes.""
In the age of PC that was seen as disparaging to Chucks. I suggest rename to "Schiffholes".

[Momto2]

SalenaZito

@SalenaZito

.@jaketapper "Are you really not taking any responsibility for this?"
@browardsheriff "i've done amazing leadership"
Tapper: Amazing?

[Porchlight]

Ext, the duffel bag is on the medium to small side but that's exactly why Mr Porch loves it.

New thread.

[DebinGA]

DM pic of coward Peterson shows him to be a giant - tall and strong. Makes his deliberate inaction even worse imo, as he's probably used his size to intimidate in the past.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Joel B. Pollak
‏ @joelpollak
25m25 minutes ago

I give credit to Jake Tapper to holding Sheriff Scott Israel's feet to the fire over his department's failures to intervene in the shooting (quite evasive answers, by the way) and what the sheriff knew by the time he blamed the NRA at the CNN town hall on Wednesday @CNN @CNNSotu
==================================

My theory on this is that there is worse stuff to come out and Jake is backing off.

[Porchlight]

MM,

That's exactly why CNN rushed to hold the town hall so fast. So that it could become the story before the facts got out. Tapper knows this.

[DebinGA]

I hope someone checks Israel's budget for "body armor"/kevlar shields, etc. against what was available at all schools in his orbit when shots were fired at Douglas HS. Officers not expected to respond have no need for armor.

[Captain Hate]

Ol' Yeller on Friday praised Manafort for vowing to fight Mueller's police state tactics, which may well bankrupt him, to prove his innocence. What Mueller is doing is a disgrace to the country, and I'm tired of the apologists, looking right at McCarthy and DeGenova, providing cover for him. The FBI became useless under him and he's a bum who belonged more in the Stasi.

[Marlene]

Good Morning! A Maine teen allegedly wanted to be the "most notorious school shooter in American history" and was arrested after posting threats on an online gaming site. During a Friday court hearing,according to WABI-TV in Bangor,the suspect told police "I didn't expect you to catch on to this so fast...I thought I had more time."
How can law enforcement walk the fine line between informing the public and giving these wannabes their 15 minutes of fame?

[Clarice Feldman]

In DC to improve graduation scores and test results, they just changed the test answers and graduated kids who didn't meet the requirements. The mandated results programs of the feds has hurt kids terribly.

[Bubarooni]

Stuck at the Lawrence north high school gym in Indy till late this afternoon for volleyball tourney. A recap of the Sunday shows will be greatly appreciated if one were so inclined. I'm guessing 'guns be bad' all morning but hope to be pleasantly surprised.

This HS has about 2500 students and has every possible amenity you can imagine. Pretty wealthy area.

[-peter]

Very nice pieces, Clarice, and very nice blogpost, rse. I may quote from both in a letter I am writing to my local newspaper.

[Online MBA]

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