School Shootings, Gun Control, And Red Flag Laws

There are partisans on both sides of the gun control screaming match that rely on hyperbolic rhetoric to rouse their donors. To pick an example seemingly at random, people like Hillary Clinton will prefer to pander rather than lead.

However, I am feeling a mad surge of optimism today. From the right, let me single out Dan McLaughlin as a hard-headed righty who is surely not a reflexive gun grabber yet seems to be fed up with the current non-debate (OK, that may be me projecting...). A snippet:

There are only easy answers if you are willing to sacrifice rights you don't care about, and that other people do. That's never been a solution Americans could pursue without embarrassment and regret. Unless and until we can find a better, more reliable way to identify potential mass shooters early, we have to acknowledge the nature of the choice before us: Punish many innocent people or remain mostly defenseless against the malicious few.

Nobody wants to make one side of that trade. But nobody wants to face the other side either.

And on the left, Nick Kristof recycles a column where he tried to actually talk a bit of sense into his fellow lefties. Let me extract this:

Frankly, liberal opposition to guns has often been ineffective, and sometimes counterproductive. The 10-year ban on assault weapons accomplished little, partly because definitions were about cosmetic features like bayonet mounts (and partly because even before the ban, such guns were used in only 2 percent of crimes).

Whoa, say what?!? Normally libs are eager to parade their utter lack of knowledge of guns by railing about an assault weapons ban as the first order of business. That does not generally lead to a calm and productive discussion. On the other hand, the Washington Post shows signs that they are not afraid of the truth on gun control, which is a hopeful sign.

In any case, I would like to see Messrs. McLaughlin and Kristof co-chair a Pundits Panel on gun control. Their chief of staff can be Leah Libresco, author of "I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise."

My hope is that we can move beyond the famous Onion headline:

No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

A valuable suggestion: The WaPo has an article on Red Flag Laws. Sadly, a key source is the not-trustworthy Everytown site, but still, the idea can be examined independently. From the WaPo:

Five states allow guns to be seized before someone can commit violence

In the wake of massacres like Wednesday’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla., a small number of states have passed “red flag laws” that allow the seizure of guns before people can commit acts of violence.

California, Washington, Oregon, Indiana and Connecticut have statutes that can be used to temporarily take guns away from people whom a judge deems a threat to themselves or others. Lawmakers in 18 other states — including Florida — plus the District of Columbia have proposed similar measures. At the federal level, California lawmakers Rep. Salud Carbajal (D) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) introduced legislation last May that would encourage states to adopt the approach.

Mental illness, escalating threats, substance abuse and domestic violence are among the circumstances in which a judge can order weapon restrictions under the laws.

That is a court-supervised process that could be effective while preserving due process rights, unlike the absurd proposals to expand the role of the No Fly list to become a No Buy list as well.

Some of the other Kristof suggestions, such as raising the legal gun purchase age to 21, as with cigarettes and alcohol, don't faze me. I should add that he notes domestic violence restraining orders but does not expand on that to pick up the Red Flag Laws. I have no doubt he would support it, however, and yes, that gives me pause.

In any case, there are some positive steps we could take that might improve our national record on gun violence while respecting (but slightly rebalancing, under court supervision) our right of self defense. And as a matter of pure politics it might behoove the Republicans to put forward some ideas of their own rather than simply knock down the stupider ideas from the other side.

Connecticut is one of the five states with a Red Flag law. Their law, passed in 1999, did not prevent Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook horror, but with a different "See something, say something" social norm, who can say? In any case, here is a Duke study on the impact of that law.

For those who can separate citations from the source, here is an Everytown article with lots of footnotes on Red Flag laws. Distrust but verify!

 

Comments

[daddy]

Good Morning!

[Bubarooni]

Curses!

[henry]

But "Muh Russians" bought facebook ads and paid some US person to stand in front of the White House with a sign!!!

[Jane]

BTW - we were listening to the Broward County police scanner when the shooting was in progress. They apparently went to Cruz' girlfriend's house to find him and found her overdosed.

[Captain Hate]

Willowed

Wasn't a big initiative of Cock Curious, Stedman, LoLy and that pervert who headed up Education to make it extremely difficult to expel problem children?

[henry]

CH, it was raciss if too few whites got disciplined, so nobody gets disciplined.

[Threadkiller]

In the indictment they claim that post election the group simultaneously organized both support for Trump rallies as well as Trump stole the vote rallies.

Russians being Russians..

[Extraneus]

I wonder if Mueller is about to close up shop.

[Captain Hate]

Ah yes, henry, the disparate impact nonsense which completely ignores the individual specifics because of "muh people".

Tammy is ridiculing the Mueller indictments, stating that Cock Curious and the Beast meddled in Israel's and Egypt's elections.

[GUS]

Russians bought FACEBOOK ADS. Is that illegal?

[maryrose]

I guarantee you that if Dems embrace anti-gun legislation or run on lie they will lose big time in the midterms. It is a loser issue for them.
WRT Romney’s statement, he talked about LEGAL immigrants.
Didn’t think we were against those people.

[maryrose]

How can you punish Russians?

[Janet 🚬 - I wish my family had a poncho]

Only SOME citizens of other countries have to obey our laws.

[GUS]

Here is a really groovy question!!!!

Who spent more RODHAM has about $12,000,000.00 going to RUSSIA/STEELE/OHR's wife for a FRAUDULENT DOCUMENT aimed to DEFAME, SLIME and DEFEAT Donald Trump.

RUSSIANS may have bought some FACE BOOK ads.

Which on bothers you?

[daddy]

A federal grand jury has indicted 13 Russian nationals and three Russian entities for alleged interference in the 2016 presidential elections, during which they boosted the candidacy of Donald Trump, according to special counsel Robert Mueller.

By early to mid-2016, the indictment charges, the defendants were "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump ... and disparaging Hillary Clinton."

Well the exact reverse tactic, "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump Hillary Clinton ... and disparaging Hillary Clinton." Donald Trump was engaged in by Foreign Nationals at

---the BBC
---France 24
---Sky News
---(ABC Australian Broadcasting System)
---CNN International
---Russia Today
---Al Jazira
---Times of India
---(CBC Canadian Broadcasting Corp)
---Telemundo
---UK Guardian
---etc

What am I missing?

[henry]

maryrose, send them a thumbdrive with Obama's speeches on it?

[Jim Eagle]

Pretty thin gruel Rosenstein and Mueller are serving up. And the market has just responded by going back up after it took a dive thinking this was going to be a big bang.

But the media will make this a boulabaisse of extraordinary cuisine.

[Captain Hate]

Tammy asks if the Senate just voted themselves another two week vacation.

[RattlerGator]

Because the gun moaners, if you probe deeply enough, believe that when a shooting spree occurs, the FIRST action to be taken is to make guns illegal for law abiding citizens who have no gun related crimes on their record. That, and to condemn innocent gun owners for having the audacity of wanting to own a gun in the first place.

Posted by: JimNorCal | February 16, 2018 at 12:03 PM

Jim, perhaps you could comment on the orgiastic focus on these shootings incentivizing copiers in the culture at a time when deaths from are at about a 50-year low *and* of these gun deaths, upwards of 60 percent are suicides.

Facts they don't want you to know because they prefer the mass hypnosis of network television.

The kid was almost certainly off and on psychatric medications. The pharmaceutical industry has got in bed with the Democrats; the preferred narrative keeps us from asking some very hard questions of our mental health advocates *and* of the pharmaceutical industry, too.

[henry]

Isn't this a standard movie trope (mad scientists destroy planet)?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-big-sky-plan-to-cool-the-planet-1518802598?mod=e2tw&page=1&pos=1

[Janet 🚬 - I wish my family had a poncho]

"Ex-Mexican president meets with Pelosi on axing Trump, says followers are lazy drunks"

"he [Former Mexican President Vicente Fox] spent a half-hour with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi at the airport in Mexico City on Sunday and discussed how he can help convince Hispanic voters in the United States to reject Trump, which would all but ensure Hillary Clinton’s success in the 2016 election."

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2016/05/07/what-apology-ex-mexican-president-meets-with-pelosi-on-axing-trump-says-followers-are-lazy-drunks-337595

[henry]

Janet, did he say it in Russian?

[Extraneus]

How can you punish Russians?

Just saw Rosenstein say they'll follow the normal procedure and request extradition. He also stressed that this indictment contains no allegation that any American citizens were aware of the scheme. Also, nothing in the indictment indicates that the scheme influenced the outcome of the election.

[Janet 🚬 - I wish my family had a poncho]

The WaPo had some article (can't find it) about Dreamers (illegals) helping get-out-the-vote for Hillary.
It was a sympathy article on how these poor people couldn't vote, but they could still help.

[maryrose]

Henry:
Your comment made me laugh really hard!
When I think of all the time and money wasted and no efforts at prevention of the tragedy in Florida it is enough to make one weep.JIB:
We use a fob that allows us to enter our school which is always locked.
Local police did a review and showed us vulnerable areas.
This can be prevented with security and better mental health intervention and a log of times police are called and citing parents if they don’t lock up guns properly and prevent mentally ill person from having a key.

[daddy]

Pretty thin gruel Rosenstein and Mueller are serving up.

Can't see how it can get any thinner than the charge made by Rosenstein that Russians organized an Anti-Trump rally and a pro Trump rally in NY City on the same day and at the same time. Huh? That's the big scheme? Foreign National Christopher Steele did a thousand times more lethal and deadly electioneering mischief than that without getting out of bed this morning.

And we are cautioned to not trust that everybody on the internet is who they say they are?

Shazam---I better talk to my Nigerian Uncle who's a Prince. He's on the Internet.

Rush is all over this. My knee jerk is this is an embarrassment to Muller.. 7 Million bucks spent and this is what we get?

[Sue]

I was expecting him to announce an indictment against Obama for interfering in Israeli elections.

[maryrose]

Janet:
I am still stunned by the fact that these persons are not arrested on the spot for being here illegally and that they don’t possess proper papers allowing them to stay.
Their boldness and demands infuriate me.
They are ALIEN to our country and think they have more rights than American born citizens.

[Extraneus]

Good point, Janet. Illegals must be in Mueller's cross-hairs by now, huh?

[Janet 🚬 - I wish my family had a poncho]

Here. Daily Caller Aug. 2016 - Clinton Campaign Launches Voter Registration Effort Led By Illegal Aliens

http://dailycaller.com/2016/08/14/clinton-campaign-launches-voter-registration-effort-led-by-illegal-aliens/#ixzz4HM8h2IJx

"According to a statement the campaign launched “‘Mi Sueño, Tu Voto’ (My Dream, Your Vote), to organize DREAMers to mobilize their communities and ask voters to consider what is at stake for their families in November.”"

[jimmyk]

The left must be quietly devastated over these indictments, given the absence of any collusion or other criminal behavior by anyone in the Trump campaign. The closest it comes is a reference to them "posing as U.S. persons and without revealing their Russian association, communicated with unwitting individuals associated with the Trump campaign and with other political activists to seek to coordinate political activities."

Pretty thin gruel.

[jimmyk]

Basically Mueller indicted Boris and Natasha. Moose and Squirrel are safe for now.

[Captain Hate]

Tammy on Romney's ad: with the exception of the Salt Lake City Olympics, at which he did an outstanding job in organizing, Romney had nothing to do with the things he's touting as Utah's values.

[jimmyk]

Neil Cavuto
‏Verified account @TeamCavuto
4m4 minutes ago

Rod Rosenstein on #Mueller indictments: "There is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charge conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election." @FoxBusiness

[JimNorCal]

If the situation triggering a Red Flag law is so serious as to require preemptive confiscation of someone's weapons, is it serious enough to allow temporary relaxation of their habeas corpus rights? Why leave them free on the streets, why not go straight to preemptive detention? You might grab one of their guns, but others are hidden away, for example.

"Connecticut is one of the five states with a Red Flag law. Their law, passed in 1999, did not prevent Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook"
Hmmm. Pretty strong counter argument.

[daddy]

It's too bad Mueller wasted $7 Million on pursuing this Russian criminality when he and his Team could have been tracking down a much more serious crime---finding out whoever orchestrated pulling cheeseburgers off the McDonald's Happy Meals menu.

I'm serious.

[Jane]

Why is Mueller indicting the Russians now?

[henry]

daddy, i think that shady Burger King character did it.

[Beasts of England]

Black Russian Lives Matter!

[Extraneus]

A simple restraining order can be used to confiscate guns and weapons from an innocent and unsuspecting person on the receiving end of a divorce lawyer's scare tactic salvo. No due process required.

Maybe the school should have sought one.

[maryrose]

Romney lives his Mormon values everyday and the last time I checked many of the inhabitants of Utah practice the Mormon religion.
This argument does not advance the discussion in my opinion.
Tell it like it is.
The purists don’t think he is enough like President Trump to make the cut.

[maryrose]

Orrin Hatch’s endorsement is all that he needs.

[cathyf on iPhone]

The problem with the whole red-flag principle is that it’s a pretty classic example of lie-with-statistics. The question answered is “what percentage of dangerous nutcases showed red flags?” But the question that matters is “what percentage of nutcases showing a set of red flags turns out to be dangerous nutcases?”

(This statistical fallacy is quite common. It’s especially problematic in medicine, where it basically serves to blame the patient because “you should have known” that you had a problem. Even though 99% of the time whatever symptom you were having is innocuous.)

[Janet 🚬 - I wish my family had a poncho]

Janet Shagam
August 15, 2016 ·

Retweeted The Hill (@thehill):
Clinton campaign recruiting undocumented immigrants to register voters https://t.co/VTwciExxj0 https://t.co/CsG5kUA1vw

""We may not have the right to vote, but 'Mi Sueño, Tu Voto' will help ensure that our stories are heard and it will send a clear signal to Donald Trump that we cannot be silenced," said Astrid Silva,

Silva is an undocumented immigrant from Las Vegas..."

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Well, a big ho-hum on the indictments.

I bet the Russians have done crap like that in every election going all the way back to Eisenhower.

Are we indicting Mexicans for interferin? Why not? While they are at it, indict that Australian guy I met in London who tried to convince me to vote for Kerry!

Bah. Waste of money and effort.

[maryrose]

Ext:
Very good point.

[Beasts of England]

'The purists don’t think he is enough like President Trump to make the cut.'

What does that even mean?

[rse]

Does everyone recognize that everytown is the propaganda group michael bloomberg spent $50 million to create? https://everytown.org/press/new-gun-violence-prevention-group-everytown-for-gun-safety-unites-mayors-moms-and-millions-of-americans-on-new-paths-to-victory-state-capitols-corporate-responsibility-voter-activation/

I was at the cle forum they did on the 2nd amendment that just about came to blows with what was said vs actual history. It was put on with acs, the Constitution in 2020 soros financed group that eric holder is also involved with.

[maryrose]

Janet:
I believe by daring President Trump not to silence her she may have bought her ticket back to her country of origin.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

maryrose,

I haven't noticed Romney's values keeping him from snide comments and agitating against President Trump's policies, mostly because they are Trump's policies.

Of course, he does it while not cussing or drinking, so I guess that makes it ok with some people. Needless to say, it is NOT ok with me.

[daddy]

Black Russian Lives Matter!

[maryrose]

MM:
Sorry I have to agree to disagree.
Romney is independent from President Trump.

[Momto2]

I see a great campaign ad out of this.

Explaining the $$$ spent to indite "Russians" which will lead to nothing.\

Then compare how that money *could* have been spent to improve any number of things in our country.

[Mike Giles]

Just out of curiosity, how long will it be before "Red Flag" laws, in relationship to your Second Amendment rights; will be used as an precedent to take away your First Amendment rights because of "dangerous" speech?

[Porchlight]

Here's the indictment (or what purports to be, anyway) on Scribd:

https://www.scribd.com/document/371672481/U-S-v-Internet-Research-Agency-et-al

[Beasts of England]

lol, daddy!

[henry]

hehehe. They were trying to influence GUS!

https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/964563562248228866

[Janet 🚬 - I wish my family had a poncho]

Screw Romney. Ya know what I learned from him?...that I don't have to support the Republican candidate. That I can actively undermine whoever is the Republican candidate.

It isn't enough to just be quiet...no, I should actively undermine him if I don't like him.

Well I don't like him.

[maryrose]

Beasts :
Romney won’t agree 100 percent with President Trump on every single issue all the time 24/7.
Occasionally he may disagree.

[maryrose]

Well I do like him.

[Extraneus]

Mueller Indictment Shows Russian Trolls Also Promoted Bernie Sanders, Jill Stein

[henry]

Mueller got a plea:

Special Counsel Robert Mueller on Friday announced a guilty plea with Richard Pinedo, saying the American man used stolen identities in connection with defeating security features of digital payment companies. The plea deal followed an indictment of 13 Russians for breaking U.S. laws to interfere with the 2016 elections. The Pinedo announcement does not mention the 2016 election.

[cathyf on iPhone]

As McLaughlin points out in the article (read it, it’s very good) the First Amendment rights are a very serious problem. It is undoubtably true that news coverage of these attacks has created significant encouragement for later attacks.

[daddy]

Rush stressing that the only takeaway so far is Rosenstein that there were no Americans knowledgeably involved in this series of indictments and that in no way did any of this terrible Russian conspiracy change or affect a single vote in the Election.

Seems to me that Charlie Chaplain, when he picked up that red flag that fell off that construction truck and he waved it to try to catch the attention of the truck driver driving off was more guilty of Electioneering crimes than today's indicted Russians.

[Beasts of England]

'Occasionally he may disagree.'

That may be an understatement. In case anyone forgot, here's what the guy who gave BHO a second term had to say about Trump:

'Here's what I know. Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud. His promises are as worthless as a degree from Trump University. He's playing the American public for suckers: He gets a free ride to the White House and all we get is a lousy hat.

His domestic policies would lead to recession. His foreign policies would make America and the world less safe. He has neither the temperament nor the judgment to be president. And his personal qualities would mean that America would cease to be a shining city on a hill.'

Bite me, Mitt.

[sbw]

maryrose: The purists don’t think he is enough like President Trump to make the cut.

Hahahahaha!

Romney: “Washington sends immigrants a message of exclusion.”

A misrepresentation, but you overlook that. Do you care?

[maryrose]

Time to shut the Mueller probe down.
The original premise is now changed to punish the Russians.Someone has to pay because by golly Donald Trump won the presidency.

[maryrose]

SBW:
Is he talking about Congress or Trump?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Beasts, THAT is what I remember as well!

Unless I hear a sincere apology and an explanation of how he misjudged President Trump, I am going to see if I can get some Russians to disrupt the Utah election. (JUST KIDDING, FBI! I know you are searching for that stuff rather than looking for possible mass murderers!)

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Beasts, THAT is what I remember as well!

Unless I hear a sincere apology and an explanation of how he misjudged President Trump, I am going to see if I can get some Russians to disrupt the Utah election. (JUST KIDDING, FBI! I know you are searching for that stuff rather than looking for possible mass murderers!)

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

How odd that that came up as a double post at the same time!

RUSSIANS!

[Captain Hate]

The libs will be furious with Mueller because the MFM cucks have been leading them to believe that any day now Drumpf will be indicted.

[Davod]

read that the indictments say the Russians were working to get Trump elected. Based upon everything we know about FBI investigations - does this mean the FBI didn't pursue any leads that might have lead to Russians supporting the election of Democrats.

[jimmyk]

You can say that again, MM!

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Deb Singer
‏ @debsinger2
2m2 minutes ago

I'm peeved that the Mueller news stepped all over the major FBI screwup in the school shooting.

[henry]

"Mueller just proved the Russians stole the election from Hillary so need a rematch next Tuesday." Things Pelosi and Maxine Waters will say on the evening news for $200 Alex.

[Captain Hate]

Memo to self of the non Susan Rice type: Never get on Janet's wrong side.

[daddy]

How does organizing an Anti-Trump rally help get Trump elected?

I did not know Mueller had hired "Double naught Secret Agent" Jethro Bodine to his Investigative Team.

[Captain Hate]

This outbreak of common sense cannot be permitted:

https://conservativetribune.com/south-dakota-hammer-lgbt/?utm_source=push&utm_medium=conservativetribune&utm_content=2018-02-15&utm_campaign=manualpost

[maryrose]

Romney already acknowledged in public in front of the media that President
Trump ran a great campaign and won which he wasn’t able to do himself.
It would be unTrump like for him to grovel the way you seem to want him to.

[jimmyk]

Just saw Rosenstein say they'll follow the normal procedure

[jimmyk]

maryrose, supporting the President of one's own party is not "groveling." It's what one normally does.

[Old Lurker]

No sale, Maryrose.

Not last time you got on that high horse. Not this time. And not next time.

This country would be better off if Mitt Romney were never heard from again, and if all memory of him could fade to nothing.

Strong opinion to follow.

[maryrose]

Beasts:
Well history has proven Romney was wrong. His statement on immigration could refer to the amnesty being offered to 1.8 million DACA persons. I for one am not really happy about that as it is a slap in the face to the legal immigrants who went through the long arduous process to become citizens.

[daddy]

On the FBI apparently ignoring warnings about the Florida Mass Murderer, here's a reminder from this time last year of the FBI ignoring another Florida Mass Murderer: The Latest: Gun seized from alleged Florida shooter after Anchorage FBI visit

(Jan 2017): Authorities say they seized a gun from the alleged Florida airport shooter when he visited an FBI office in Alaska in November and returned it the next month.

The FBI and the Anchorage police chief said Saturday that Esteban Santiago walked into the local FBI office and was agitated and making incoherent statements. He had a loaded magazine on him, but he had left his firearm in his vehicle, as well as his newborn child.

Santiago was taken for a mental health evaluation and investigated, but authorities found no wrongdoing. They returned his gun to him about a month ago. Authorities would not say if it's the same gun used in the attack Friday...

...the people were shot at random by 26-year-old Esteban Santiago in a baggage area at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport. Santiago is in custody...

...Six gunshot victims were brought to Broward Health Medical Center after Friday's shooting in which five others died.

[Rocco]

Talk about a dog and pony show. Indict a bunch of people you'll never ever see or hear from again. Smells like Hillary's alibi to me.

[maryrose]

Jimmyk:
MM wants a groveling mea culpa from Romney and nothing less.
I am just stating that is not going to happen.
OL:
Agree to disagree.

[Porchlight]

Based upon everything we know about FBI investigations - does this mean the FBI didn't pursue any leads that might have lead to Russians supporting the election of Democrats.

Good question, Davod.

[daddy]

FOX Business reporting that Governor Rick Scott of Florida is calling for FBI Head Christopher Wray to step down.

[Old Lurker]

I know Maryrose.

[Captain Hate]

Romney is just the wrong candidate for these times. He needed to go on the offense against the MFM instead of being their punching bag over things like dogs on the car roof, cutting someone's hair and ridiculing his wife Ann's horse riding therapy. It would be nice if this was a more genteel time when candidates could be above all this, but this was a situation created by the left and has to be thoroughly defeated to create a respectful atmosphere.

[maryrose]

Jimmyk:
Is the solution to get rid of all the duly elected senators who disagree with President Trump even in the slightest because that is not what is done?
OL:
Not on high horse, merely expressing an opinion.

[Beasts of England]

Romney actively campaigned against Trump. The election was a dichotomy, ergo, he effectively promoted one of the most corrupt and vile tyrants ever to run for President. He shouldn't merely grovel, he should remove himself from Republican / conservative politics.

[Old Lurker]

"calling for FBI Head Christopher Wray to step down"

I'll pay double if he will take Sessions with him.

For the same reason.

:-)

[Old Lurker]

I knew "high horse" would get you, Maryrose. It is fun to push your buttons.

[maryrose]

Beasts:
That is your opinion.
Cruz, Rubio , Graham, also campaigned against Trump during the election process.
Should we ban them from politics as well?

[Extraneus]

Has Romney ever mentioned who he voted for in 2016?

[Beasts of England]

Oh, yeah - where were Mitt's awesometastic 'Mormon values' when he took tons of campaign cash from that miscreant Trump?

[Old Lurker]

But seriously, saying something to Jimmy like "Is the solution to get rid of all the duly elected senators who disagree with President Trump even in the slightest" is at best just silly, and at worst offensive.

[Marlene]

Ha! jimmyk,I was just going to ask if this means Boris and Natasha are going to jail? :)