School Shootings, Gun Control, And Red Flag Laws

There are partisans on both sides of the gun control screaming match that rely on hyperbolic rhetoric to rouse their donors. To pick an example seemingly at random, people like Hillary Clinton will prefer to pander rather than lead.

However, I am feeling a mad surge of optimism today. From the right, let me single out Dan McLaughlin as a hard-headed righty who is surely not a reflexive gun grabber yet seems to be fed up with the current non-debate (OK, that may be me projecting...). A snippet:

There are only easy answers if you are willing to sacrifice rights you don't care about, and that other people do. That's never been a solution Americans could pursue without embarrassment and regret. Unless and until we can find a better, more reliable way to identify potential mass shooters early, we have to acknowledge the nature of the choice before us: Punish many innocent people or remain mostly defenseless against the malicious few.

Nobody wants to make one side of that trade. But nobody wants to face the other side either.

And on the left, Nick Kristof recycles a column where he tried to actually talk a bit of sense into his fellow lefties. Let me extract this:

Frankly, liberal opposition to guns has often been ineffective, and sometimes counterproductive. The 10-year ban on assault weapons accomplished little, partly because definitions were about cosmetic features like bayonet mounts (and partly because even before the ban, such guns were used in only 2 percent of crimes).

Whoa, say what?!? Normally libs are eager to parade their utter lack of knowledge of guns by railing about an assault weapons ban as the first order of business. That does not generally lead to a calm and productive discussion. On the other hand, the Washington Post shows signs that they are not afraid of the truth on gun control, which is a hopeful sign.

In any case, I would like to see Messrs. McLaughlin and Kristof co-chair a Pundits Panel on gun control. Their chief of staff can be Leah Libresco, author of "I used to think gun control was the answer. My research told me otherwise."

My hope is that we can move beyond the famous Onion headline:

No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

A valuable suggestion: The WaPo has an article on Red Flag Laws. Sadly, a key source is the not-trustworthy Everytown site, but still, the idea can be examined independently. From the WaPo:

Five states allow guns to be seized before someone can commit violence

In the wake of massacres like Wednesday’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla., a small number of states have passed “red flag laws” that allow the seizure of guns before people can commit acts of violence.

California, Washington, Oregon, Indiana and Connecticut have statutes that can be used to temporarily take guns away from people whom a judge deems a threat to themselves or others. Lawmakers in 18 other states — including Florida — plus the District of Columbia have proposed similar measures. At the federal level, California lawmakers Rep. Salud Carbajal (D) and Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) introduced legislation last May that would encourage states to adopt the approach.

Mental illness, escalating threats, substance abuse and domestic violence are among the circumstances in which a judge can order weapon restrictions under the laws.

That is a court-supervised process that could be effective while preserving due process rights, unlike the absurd proposals to expand the role of the No Fly list to become a No Buy list as well.

Some of the other Kristof suggestions, such as raising the legal gun purchase age to 21, as with cigarettes and alcohol, don't faze me. I should add that he notes domestic violence restraining orders but does not expand on that to pick up the Red Flag Laws. I have no doubt he would support it, however, and yes, that gives me pause.

In any case, there are some positive steps we could take that might improve our national record on gun violence while respecting (but slightly rebalancing, under court supervision) our right of self defense. And as a matter of pure politics it might behoove the Republicans to put forward some ideas of their own rather than simply knock down the stupider ideas from the other side.

Connecticut is one of the five states with a Red Flag law. Their law, passed in 1999, did not prevent Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook horror, but with a different "See something, say something" social norm, who can say? In any case, here is a Duke study on the impact of that law.

For those who can separate citations from the source, here is an Everytown article with lots of footnotes on Red Flag laws. Distrust but verify!

 

Comments

[Dave (in MA)]

What if some of the smaller primates fly out of my nether regions?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

maryrose,

I will say no more. HOWEVER, should Mitt show his true colors which I believe are lurking in the wings, I WILL remind you of this.

Also, Matt Schlapp on the Fox panel said that Mitt needs a hobby and should stay home. HA!

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

If Mitt wants to do something constructive, he should get Johnny Weir to quit appearing on TV as some lame cross-dresser in full make-up with weirdo hair.

[maryrose]

MM:
Jesse Watters on the Five says he can forgivee the con man comment and Byron York says his polling is 65percent favorable so HA right back!

[maryrose]

MM:
I will remind you if he wins that people of Utah have spoken.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/16/say-something-do-nothing-fbi-statement-on-parkland-florida-school-shooting/

========================

Down in the comments is a video of President Trump making a statement next to the doctor, Dr. IGOR NICHIPORENKO, no doubt a RUSSIAN!

[Rocco]

Did the Con Man ask for forgiveness?

[Rocco]

Con Man commentor

[David, Deplorable Internet Russian Dreamer Bot]

You know what I want to see? A "Red Flag" law that says is a media outlet reports false news more then three times in a one-month period, we can make it so that the court can seize their means of broadcasting under a court-sponsored process that protects their assets, but still prevents them from lying to the American people.

I also want to propose a change to the official JoM style guide wherein, from now on, we refer to the 2012 Republican candidate as Mitt "Loser" Romney.

David

[Buckeye]

Melania clearly didn't ditch the President. She is standing in the same room with him on live TV.

[Dave (in MA)]

I guess ol' whatshername was ahead of her time with all the cybot troll stuff, eh?

[Another Bob]

While some invent fairy tales about Romney, let's not forget the relationship between Romney and McMullin.

[Account Deleted]

So the FBI and Co missed the other FLA shooting of 50 some patrons in a nightclub too right?

Anyone read about an official from FLA calling for the FBI Director's resignation? It was on hour two of Savage today.

[Jack is Back! (On SW 461 to MCO)]

MR,

Why would Trump turn to Mitt as a go to guy in the Senate? He’ll have no seniority and no leadership position.

Frederick in the back of the plane just text that he just read that 7 kids a day are killed by guns and that there have been 30 mass shootings this year alone. I replied if he was reading the Chicago paper:)

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Mark Knoller
‏Verified account @markknoller
2m2 minutes ago

Pres Trump lavishes praise on first responders at Broward Sheriff's Dept. "I hope you’re getting the credit." He says the job they've done is "unparalleled." "Give 'em a raise," he tells Sheriff Israel.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Oops, forgot! For tablet users:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWMxBcbVQAA449l.jpg:large

[Threadkiller]

Saw the ad twice.
Nothing ambiguous about it and no mention of President Trump at all.

You have me confused with someone else. I didn't say anything about Trump.

You seemed unsure about Mitt's immigration message from the ad. That is why I suggested it was ambiguous. Are you now certain about his immigration message?

[David, Deplorable Internet Russian Dreamer Bot]

I don't understand why everyone is so down on the FBI in the Florida shooting. The agency has to prioritize their agents, and there have been a lot of demands on them recently. It is not easy trying to manufacture evidence of collusion to take down a sitting president, and since they are fully committed to the Mueller counter-coup, they have to be cut some slack on doing other, unimportant, things like keeping school children from being butchered by murderous psychopaths who announce their intentions on Facebook using their own names.

David

[narcis o]

Yes they did, kev and the victims had their kumbaya session on lake eola which pointedly referred to guns and homophobia but left out one important details.

[Jack is Back! (On SW 461 to MCO)]

Governor Scott, Kev. Chutzpah on his part since we were calling for Scott’s resignation when he appointed the special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

Mark Knoller
‏Verified account @markknoller
5m5 minutes ago

The First Lady joined in the praise for the sheriff's personnel. "Thanks a lot for what you do and saving our children. Let’s take care of them because they’ve been through a lot."

For tablet users:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DWMywbxWAAAA72S.jpg

[Extraneus]

I will remind you if he wins that people of Utah have spoken

Assuming no Russian spambots were involved.

[maryrose]

David:
Well said.
TK:
Romney wants legal immigrants treated fairly and doesn’t want illegals jumping the line I believe.
Another Bob:
By fairy tales you mean of course the one about Romney challenging Trump in 2020right?
What other fairy tales are you referring to?
The fact that Romney saved the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics?
That most feel he has a real chance of becoming Senator.
That he was an effective Governor of Massachusetts and an astute Business man similar to Trump in his success in that area.Those are known facts.
Your theories and those of others are opinions, theories and some major spitballing.

[Jack is Back! (On SW 461 to MCO)]

Aha! Fred just texted he got the stats from Everytown. After reading how the count shootings a schools (I.e. you heard a gun shot, suicides etc) he texts that people need to read the whole story but the drive by media won’t let them. He’s a Rush baby👍😊

[maryrose]

David:
To be clear , do not agree with idea of calling Mitt the L word Romney unless we can call Trump Loset in New Jersey Casino Business.

[Tom Maguire]

"Connecticut is one of the five states with a Red Flag law. Their law, passed in 1999, did not prevent Adam Lanza of Sandy Hook"

Ahh, it's a semi-strong argument. IIRC Lanza killed his mom and took her guns. She was evidently not going to get a court order requiring her to turn in her own weapons. Nor would she need one since she could do it herself, but a court order keeping her son from buying weapons would have been available.

But some of the other nut jobs (they are almost ALL nutjobs) might have been stopped. Or slowed. I guess it depends on the relatives and their own situation.

[narcis o]

Yet he let gruber design masscare and Mccarthy the skydragon netting, (carbon trading scheme)

[Stephanie Nene Not your normal Grandma]

Gah!

[maryrose]

Steph:
What does Gah mean?

[Dave (in MA)]

according to a person with knowledge of the probe

that anonymous source is probably just Adam Schiff with a big stupid fake mustache and a little boy-sized t-shirt that says TOTALLY NOT ADAM SCHIFF. --Ace

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

TRUMP News 24/7
‏ @MichaelDelauzon
13m13 minutes ago

WATCH: President Trump and The First Lady speak with police officers and sheriff's deputies who saved lives and apprehended the high school shooter. The news media DID NOT broadcast this. Starts at 29:00 point. https://www.pscp.tv/w/bVYfEzFEWktvZXJST3dvRWF8MW1uR2VYcWFSYWJLWBRgF-JLIHepP3IPahn76YQAS-B-MbKDaohLsq6W67TX … …

[Stephanie Nene Not your normal Grandma]

To be clear , do not agree with idea of calling Mitt the L word Romney unless we can call Trump Loset in New Jersey Casino Business.

Who asked you for permission? Don't want to call Mitt Loser Romney Mitt Loser Romney, then don't.

You are free to call Trump anything you desire without any of our permission.

Jebus who needs anyone's approval to say any damned thing they want on the net?

This ain't a democracy. Thank God.

[The Infamous Ignatz]

OL from last thread;

I'm going to sue them anyway and to make James happy, I am suing the Board of Directors of the firehouse (an independant corporation) just because.

Stay tuned for future entertainment.

Are you kidding me?
Wouldn't you much rather sue my brother and do some real good in the world?

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

I am sure this won't meet with some people's approval, but Kurt Schichter makes me laugh:

Kurt Schlichter
‏Verified account @KurtSchlichter
26m26 minutes ago

TFW Never Trumpers and the Fredocon Love Boat Crew 🛳️realize that it's not happening the way they expected...

"Well, your so-called president was all up in there with a Playboy Playmate while also with a porn star and an Eastern European supermodel and..............oh." 😕
9 replies 17 retweets 43 likes

[The Infamous Ignatz]

Regrading gun registration; except for a few local tyrannical laws like the Sullivan act in NY City and a few state "assault weapons" laws, guns aren't "registered".
The FBI is required by law to not retain the records of NICS checks...which gives me much less reassurance than it used to.

[The Infamous Ignatz]

--David:
To be clear , do not agree with idea of calling Mitt the L word Romney unless we can call Trump Loset in New Jersey Casino Business.--

Yeah, we could compare wormy apples to orange ogers like en election and a casino...or we could compare Romney losing his presidential election to Trump winning his.
Seems a little more apt.

[Threadkiller]

I enjoy calling Trump a Birther.

I would have enjoyed calling Romney the B word had he not allowed the Democrats to reach down his throat and pull his testicles back into their pre birth storage pocket shortly before he apologized for connecting with his potential voters using a subtle birther joke.

[maryrose]

Iggy:
Both lost something in their careers and now will make a different kind of contribution to the country.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

The President and Melania after visiting the injured students:

[The Infamous Ignatz]

From Sun Records and songwriter Charlie Rich comes the greatest stalker song of all time;
Ray Smith; Right Behind You Baby.

[Ed]

I'm always 6 hours behind.

MaryRose, you asked OL I think, but my answer to what my first response was: "She has Evelyn Farkas eyes."

Y'all may resume the conversation now while I leaf back 3 pages in catchup.

Ed

[Buckeye]

The FBI is required by law to not retain the records of NICS checks...which gives me much less reassurance than it used to.

Thanks for the info Iggy, and like you I don't feel reassured.

[maryrose]

TK:
Classy in description as always.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5401097/Jeremy-Corbyn-paid-Czech-secret-police-spy-claims.html

Well, well, well. I wonder, if, like Corbyn, people in OUR government were paid by the commies.

[maryrose]

MM:
Tucker Carlson had some brief coverage of Trump’s visitation.

[Threadkiller]

It wasn't ambiguous.

[lurkersusie]

Excellent question

Buck Sexton
@BuckSexton
So what does Mueller think of a foreigner (Steele) using the information of other foreigners (Russians) to meddle in our election through “information warfare” fed to US media and the FBI in secret?

[maryrose]

TK:
The words you use at times are offensive to me.

[Miss Marple the Deplorable]

CNN‏Verified account @CNN

Former President Bill Clinton told a federal court that he'd like to weigh in on whether sealed documents from his 1998 grand jury investigation should be released to the public http://cnn.it/2CsgBni
======================
I'll just bet he would like to "weigh in." LOL!

Release the transcripts!

[Threadkiller]

I feel the same about some of the things Romney says.

[Janeprobably about 10 minutes after getting there]

If Mueller believes spending 7 million bucks to indict 13 Russians who he will never prosecute is a good deflection from 17 people murdered in FL because the FBI couldn't be bothered, he's dumber than he looks.

[Janeprobably about 10 minutes after getting there]

Nathan Chen just did 6 quads in the free skate.

[narcis o]

You could ask Stephen hatfill if Mueller is a fool or a knave, I think he would lean toward the latter.

[Captain Hate]

Way back, a long time ago in Internet time, the Utah GOP leader was complaining about Romney's announcement today about throwing his hat in the ring for the Senate job, which would have happened previously except for the Florida school shooting. What nobody is talking about is that it would have been a good idea for unifying figure and maximum conscience of the party Romney to have given the state party a heads up that this was going to happen. I'm sure the state party had their own ideas about how to replace Hatch, which may or may not have included WMR, and to be blindsided by an unexpected national announcement would have had me spitting nails and sending out some very critical tweets.

[Captain Hate]

Mueller looks pretty dumb imo and his leadership of the FBI was substandard.

[Janeprobably about 10 minutes after getting there]

New thread.

[Rocco]

Don't trust Ryan either.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/02/paul-singers-washington-free-beacon-tweets-photo-of-buff-romney-centaur-chucking-spear/

[clarice]

For heavens sake/ I go out for a couple of hours and come back and you are all still fighting over willard. I should have thought you'd be helping me compose my letter to Mrs. OL.

[Texas Liberty Gal]

"Who asked you for permission? Don't want to call Mitt Loser Romney Mitt Loser Romney, then don't."

Thank you Stephanie for that. I've been wondering why maryrose thinks she's in charge of what can and can't be said here.

[Another Bob]

Romney has won exactly one general election in 25 years.

Sounds like a loser to me.