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February 14, 2018

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Manuel Transmission

The Cheddar dude was a youngun at ~7100BC. Might still be related to the red ochre folk.

henry

Buckeye, consider Kenosha. Talk to our Chitown Lurking Unit.

Captain Hate

Yes, jimmyk; the Cavs were the consolation prize for Dan since the Pistons weren't for sale. Truth be known, Dan has been great for Cleveland and is a big MAGA guy.

lurkersusie


Deep State trying really hard to take down Trump

Dafna Linzer
Dafna Linzer
@DafnaLinzer
·
1h
BREAKING: More than 130 political appointees working in white house didn't have permanent security clearances as of November 2017, including Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner and Don McGahn, according to internal documents obtained by NBC News @carolelee @mikememoli @kwelkernbc

narciso

Fair enough, but the argument that their skin accommodated to the colder climes doesn't past muster.

narciso

That suggests they aren't letting anyone through, but the two lovebirds are sending single source info over texts for monthes

Miss Marple the Deplorable

I am heading to bed. Let's organize a big meet-up!

Any suggestions appreciated!

henry

Narciso, was it colder in 7100 BC?

narciso

One assumes not, it was outside the window which 8200 bc

Buckeye

Well CH, starting next month I will be twiddling my thumbs, so a day trip to Indy sounds fine.

Manuel Transmission

OK, later in the Nova show they are now claiming that their DNA studies show a single unique NDN source from 25K yrs ago out of Beringia and found nowhere else. Hmmm.

JimNorCal

So .... with all the talk of comets and depopulating events, etc., a quick question.

Who else remembers a note on Instapundit some years back? As I recall it, there's an investigation going on that when the "Indians" crossed over from Siberia there was an existing population in North America. That population was, over time, exterminated by today's Native Americans.

The Insty link was to an article where investigators were trying to get access to human remains (Pacific Northwest?) in order to see if they were genetically same/different from the Native Americans. Because the remains were on Indian soil, access could be (and was) denied due to sovereignty. Of course, scientific testing on human remains is always morally sensitive, but implied was that since the theory, if confirmed, would not show Native Americans in a positive light, there was little motivation to grant access.

Over the years, I've gone back and found the post a couple times but I don't recall the key words I used to search anymore.

Is there someone familiar with that post, or with some subsequent article(s) on the same subject?

GUS

I heard the shooter wore underwear and drank diet Coke.


Just like Trump.

jim nj

Got my hotspot back sooner than expected.

Yes that was the comet I was commenting on.

What I read of it was someone posited that America had been colonized from both Asia and Europe. That the Clovis spear's closest analogue was found in Spain, thus the people using the Clovis Point were from Europe and likely followed an ice bridge to America.

He also posited the idea that the strongest effects of the comet were felt on the east coast wiping out any European based immigrants, but leaving the Asian based immigrants not as heavily impacted.

Captain Hate

Deep State trying really hard to take down Trump

Those assholes still haven't figured out that DJT is their best option, and if they sandbag him we'll come back with someone they hate even more. They never learn.

jim nj

What I've never liked about the current theory of how the Americas were populated is that it relies on one immigration, with a pause until a path through the Ice Cap appears.

Remember that recently discovered ancient city in Guatemala? And the supposition that it supported 2-3 times the previously believed population. How can you have millions of Mayans, millions of Incans, Aztecs, Toltecs, etc.

narciso

A two thousand mile icebridge Shirley?

They believe like Loki, that people desire to be ruled. Flatheads the most direct expression of this.

lurkersusie

Why does he still have a job?

Luke Rosiak
@lukerosiak
EXCLUSIVE: DOJ Official Bruce Ohr Hid Wife's Fusion GPS Payments From Ethics Officialshttps://t.co/oipR5yWE69?amp=1

GUS

Jim nj, Guatemala used to be like LAS VEGAS, all of this was before Trump got all racist against brown people. The cities in Guatemala, were all SCHUMERVILLES.

narciso

That would seem implausible, this was premayan right?

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/963956914752311301

Manuel Transmission

Both jims,

The NW dude was Kennewick Man and, even though there was a big push to not peek into his secrets, they added him to the group of elders. They are now claiming that there was a facial feature change down to the present, but still the same genetic line. However, that doesn't preclude jnj's observation about the eastern crew being altogether wiped out. Hard to prove any of that with only a few bones to cover 20k yrs and 10MM sq miles.

jim nj

I think the migration from Asia to the Americas didn't happen 10-14,000 years as has been commonly accepted. But much earlier, maybe 20-30,000 years ago.

I've never seen an estimated population for North American Indians. But they have some pretty good ideas for South and Central American Indians.

I would posit that an earlier immigration date would allow for millions of Central and South Americans with a high level of civilization and a lower level of North American Indians that might have been impacted, in some fashion, that didn't effect their southern neighbors as badly.

Dave (in MA)

CH,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EekIDMGVVF0
I shut it off after the intro.

Manuel Transmission

jnj,

That was the assumption from the Nova show: 25K yrs ago specific to the Beringia region area that has been synced up from some AK digs. In turn, that makes sense for the folks that made it all the way to the southern tip of S. Am.

narciso

Is it Matt fair or crowdstrike that termites it;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/15/russia-behind-malicious-cyber-attack-ukraine-foreign-office/

jim nj

We're seeing most of these old theories of migration and human evolution die due to new information, especially DNA analyses.

The earlier theories all seemed to hold our ancestors out as evil and stupid.

Man wiped out Neanderthals. Nope, we bred with them. Man hunted all large mammals to extinction. More likely they were snuffed out in "black swan" events.

Nobody had heard of the Denisovans until recently. Now there ancient DNA is found all over Asia.

The old theories never really considered the idea of sea travel.

Ralph L

Gothic is prettier than Federal style

500 years of Oxbridge doesn't hurt. Federal doesn't scale up as well, either.

narciso

Yes about that?


https://amgreatness.com/2018/02/14/porter-saga-media-concern-abuse-secondary/

RattlerGator

What is sad is that while a lot of people apparently thought he was potentially dangerous, no one did anything.

Posted by: Miss Marple the Deplorable | February 14, 2018 at 09:58 PM

Tough, tough day. But what could anyone do, MM?

I have a nephew who is paranoid schizophrenic. He's 37 and has never truly worked an adult job. He's indigent, and completely dependent on his mother. One day he scared the hell out of my Georgia Peach years ago with odd behavior and you know I couldn't have that. So, I had to drive over and confront him. A two hour conversation in his living room ensued. There I was, trying to reason through the voices he was hearing and the signals he is certain he's getting from various television shows, etc. All the while, he's circling through from his kitchen to the living room in a constant loop. Motion, motion, motion.

I'm convinced he was trying to work up the nerve to get a knife and charge me; so I'm planning how I'm going to either subdue him or kill him. Luckily, he never did get to the point of charging me (proving his manhood has been a constant sub-issue). Eventually I calmed him down and convinced him that night to Baker Act himself (voluntary commitment in Florida). A period of up to 72 hours of evaluation in your county is then supposed to occur. The suburban hospital we were in, Orange Park Medical Center, pulled something of a bait-and-switch. Immediately after he signed the necessary Baker Act paperwork, they put him in an ambulance and transported him to Northwest Jacksonville (the "black" side of town) as I gave chase -- horrified at what was transpiring right before me.

All because of me.

As I watched him disappear into a facility I could not enter, all I could do was look through a window at a gaggle of mentally disturbed people as some rocked back and forth awkwardly, or drooled as they stared back at me, or shuffled around the room. It was one of the weirdest HELPLESS feelings of my life. This was around 2 or 3 a.m.

By 10 a.m. I received a call from him; the facility was discharging him and he needed to be picked up and brought home. The prior night, the only that saved me from perhaps having to kill this kid was the fact that he feared me. I was physically much more imposing than him, and I was his most involved uncle. There was a certain manly respect I commanded. Now, here I was driving him home from an ordeal I had forced him to suffer through. During that long ride back, at one point this very bright but disturbed young man turned to me and said, "See, I told you there was nothing wrong with me."

He was articulate, a quick thinker, and entirely normal-looking and normal-sounding.

But indigent.

At that facility . . . they essentially did no real examination at all and sent him on his way. *He* wasn't banging his head on the wall. So, he was back to being *our* problem.

His father, an outstanding Sailor and a great guy, left the Navy to work at the Philadelphia Navy Yards and soon descended into madness. My sister divorced him when my nephew was perhaps 8 or 9 years old. His father's family blamed her for being an evil crazy chick from Florida and they would not listen to reason about what was happening to their loved one.

Well, his father moved back to the Eastern Shore of Maryland. A few years later, he murdered his mother and one of his sisters. He had made the mistake of scaring them; they made the fatal mistake of not hiding his gun well enough.

There's an entire population in this country that America has forced to deal with a serious problem while our hands are absolutely tied. I have had to place myself in jeopardy because advocates have warped our laws.

The leftwing keeps talking about our gun culture as the problem. For me, the mental health advocates are the problem. And I'm tired of them. Completely.

I had to get this off my chest as I grieve for those families in my state, robbed of their most precious treasure.

narciso

Yikes rattler I had no idea,

Yes there are no tools to handle these situation, there is internal suspension alternative school, and finally law enforcement but that option has been severely proscribed.

jim nj

jnj,

That was the assumption from the Nova show: 25K yrs ago specific to the Beringia region area that has been synced up from some AK digs. In turn, that makes sense for the folks that made it all the way to the southern tip of S. Am.

Posted by: Manuel Transmission | February 14, 2018 at 11:15 PM
---------
OK, if we go with that and assume aprox. 5 generations per hundred years = 1,250 generations times the number of immigrants, divided by 2, assuming near equal numbers of each sex. Yeah, that could add to a significant number by now.

narciso

Fwiw

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/919147/italy-election-lega-nord-lombardy-attilio-fontana

matt - deplore me if you must

RG;

Been there and done that. It is very hard to assess the thinking when someone is in a psychotic state. Best is to get them into a psych unit ASAP.

There is a fairly new alternative, the Crisis Stabilization Unit (CSU). These are 23 hr facilities where when someone is beginning to enter psychosis can go to get treatment and out of the situation they are in. It is one of several kinds of treatment modalities that all depend on the individuals needs.

Our son probably should have been in long term care, but there is almost none that is not extremely expensive (sanatoriums & such).

I am looking at the Trieste model now. They do not have locked facilities and it seems to work. They also do not have addiction, apparently, which is a huge help.

jim nj

RG,

"He was articulate, a quick thinker, and entirely normal-looking and normal-sounding."

Sounds like a good description of me in 2010, when I checked myself in on a Friday. Saturday and Sunday was a waste of time. No therapeutic interaction. I told them Monday I was leaving because it was a waste of time and they slapped a 72 hour hold on me.

The first hospital may not have had a psych ward and thus the transfer, or he didn't have insurance.

I can't understand the actions of the second hospital. Didn't they consult with you?

DebinNC

For me, the mental health advocates are the problem. And I'm tired of them. Completely.

Amen, RG. And I'm disgusted at weak parents not being held criminally liable for "troubled" kids in their home having access to guns used to harm others. Today's killer reportedly had mental issues that should have prevented his getting a gun on his own. Selling stolen guns should be a serious felony requiring lengthy prison time, instead of the current slap on the wrist.

jim nj

A 23 hour facility?

When I was very young, one of the gas stations in our neighborhood advertised 23 1/2 hour towing. We always used to wonder about that other half hour.

jim nj

One of my favorite thoughts.

Want to end the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

DNA test all of them, so that they realize that some are Diaspora Jews, and the others are left behind Jews, who don't realize that they're really Jews, and related to the Israelis.

Boricuafudd

Jim nj,

. How can you have millions of Mayans, millions of Incans, Aztecs, Toltecs, etc.?

Don't confuse civilizations with people, genetically the Mayans, Aztecs, Toltecs are the same. They civilizations were the dominant one, often in overlapping territories at different times centuries apart.IOW, the Olmecs pre-dated the Toltecs who pre-dated the Aztecs but where ethnically the same.

Interesting enough, the North American tribes and the Incas are related groups, slightly different from those in Meso-America.

jim nj

http://www.businessinsider.com/china-j-20-stealth-jet-fighter-rushed-embarrassing-flaw-2018-2

It seems that the Chinese J-20 fighter jet isn't a 5th generation fighter after all. It's not as stealthy as claimed and it doesn't use the new engines designed for it. They tend to blow up, so they're using an older engine.

They can't fly supersonic without using afterburners, which makes them more easily detectable.

The Infamous Ignatz

When my son had the 72 hour hold put on him they transferred him to a psych facility where they kept him about a week and a half until he was stabilized. The best thing that has happened to him in many years.

jim nj

Jim nj,

How can you have millions of Mayans, millions of Incans, Aztecs, Toltecs, etc.?

Don't confuse civilizations with people, genetically the Mayans, Aztecs, Toltecs are the same. They civilizations were the dominant one, often in overlapping territories at different times centuries apart.IOW, the Olmecs pre-dated the Toltecs who pre-dated the Aztecs but where ethnically the same.
---------
I was just thinking of the numbers of them. I presume they were all genetically linked and that some of the civilizations over-lapped. But I've seen pre-Columbian estimates of population that go as high as 20 million, or more. I wish I could find a reference to cite. And I've never seen anything that North American indigenous had anywhere that number. And I'm wondering why.

Interesting enough, the North American tribes and the Incas are related groups, slightly different from those in Meso-America.
-------
That's interesting. I've never heard that before. North and South America closely related, but maybe not the people in between? You got anymore on that?

Posted by: Boricuafudd | February 15, 2018 at 12:51 AM

jim nj

http://www.businessinsider.com/marines-in-syria-fired-more-artillery-than-any-battalion-since-vietnam-2018-2

Interesting piece. Title pretty much tells the tale. They burnt out two howitzers, though that's kind of hard to do. Gives you an idea of how many projectiles they put down-range.

Ralph L

We always used to wonder about that other half hour
Everyone has to go, sometime.

daddy

Some perspective:

Politico:

Third White House official resigns after being told he wouldn’t qualify for full clearance...Like an estimated three dozen others in the White House, Banks had been working on an interim security clearance while the administration determined the status of his full clearance.

Washington Times:

Clinton White House had its own security clearance backlog...More than a year into Bill Clinton’s first term, of 1,044 White House personnel, nearly 100 had no security clearance at all, according to press reports in 1994...And there was a problem with basic passes. Nearly one-third of all staff lacked permanent grounds and building passes.

jim nj

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/article199948699.html?google_editors_picks=true

LOOONG article, may not want to read it all.

Takeaway: Half of Puerto Rico’s housing was built illegally. Then came Hurricane Maria.

Many don't even own the land the houses are built on. Slapdash construction, often in flood plains, take a beating. Things built to Puerto Rican code, as tough as Florida's code, fared well.

Boricuafudd

That's interesting. I've never heard that before. North and South America closely related, but maybe not the people in between? You got anymore on that?

This is based on genetic markers (Y-DNA Haplogroups) among the different populations done about 5 years ago.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/World_Map_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroups1.png

Boricuafudd

Many don't even own the land the houses are built on. Slapdash construction, often in flood plains, take a beating. Things built to Puerto Rican code, as tough as Florida's code, fared well.

It is an island and land is at a premium, the coastal flatlands which made them great for growing sugar cane and now where most the houses are built. Unfortunately, most of these areas are flood prone.

With the collapse of the sugar industry, these lands are often the only ones available for building and are abandoned by the owner or the gov't after they kicked the owners out. Which the gov't did, starting in the late 40's when they passe a law that no one could own over 100 acres. The owners obviously took the best lands leaving the marshlands and flood areas to the gov't. The gov't, in turn, gave these to the people for next to nothing.

Many people have lived in the land for generations but don't have title to the land, as it is owned by the gov't. The original owner never bothered to get the title for the land and just passed it to others and now the people there can't prove they are the proper owners. It is a mess.

jim nj

Oooh. I bookmarked that map. Very interesting.

Boricuafudd

Here is another published study about the origins of Native Americans using genetics to track populations. BTW, this study is often cited in textbooks.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0000829

Account Deleted

"Which, in turn, caused them to all go back where they found all the Clovis dudes and by digging deeper discovered, voila! even older dudes. (IIRC the older ones were the red ochre who may have come over from Europe."

Anecdotal contribution: my close friend just returned from Tegulcigalpa Honduras on a human rights mission by 50 interdenominational ministers to call attention to the threat against the life of Archbishop Melo by the current president for life in that country.

Bishop Melo is of Ibo and Arawak (another "extinct tribe" without any recorded confirmation of significant population pre-Colombian---- although they managed to eat more than a few Spaniards.)

The Ibo "Caribe" bloodline (another "extinct" tribe)is the other dominant ethnic enclave in Honduras.

There really isn't a bona fide group of people except under old spanish law to be referred to as Hondurans. The "mixed" bloods are the people of that country.

So that's the background.

While there Reverend Daniel was introduced to several groups of Americans who travel to Tegulcigalpa to recharge and resupply. They are freelance archeologists and paleontologists who are in a race against time.

They are on the trail of a pre-Olmec society which built (supposedly) a great road that connected most of Mexico and much of Latin America. Their dig has been perilous and slow because of the DEPTHS to which they must go to get *UNDER* the Olmec remnants.

Reverend Dan heard stories about how people lived because of how food is abundant and stabilized social groupings. Significant numbers vs. who got there first and whether there was a stray Viking or German ancestor enjoying the weather.

People there scratch their heads, those who can read English and have studied in American schools, about the mythologies of Colombian contact with their descendants.

Before I wrote this summary I had written a summary of the Great Shellmound Burial Ground conflict raging here between Janet Reno's UC Berkeley and California tribes who are in an uproar over human remains surfacing from the 10 square mile (or more) burial ground by the Bay (the primary food source and trading center across the water from what is now SFO.

But it just blipped off my screen. I thought the dig deeper comment was poignant because it's exactly what the Latin American digs are having to do to get past the Olmec, Toltec, Mayan civilizational progressions.

What I am curious about is the connection between population numbers and genetic evolution of the brains of said peoples. For example, Incan ruins suggest that curved architecture and construction required mathematical facility with at least 12th power polynomials.

That kind of brain power doesn't come from thinly populated cave dwellers with high infant mortality and morbidity rates.

There's more than what the "scientific eye" can see with it's hyper-precise focus.

We live in interesting times.

Sorry I've missed out on any further discussion of these issues on the last thread. I never caught up. I had a great Valentimes Day with Mrs Kid.

Kev

jim nj

Boricuafudd,

I'm not easily impressed, but you're doing a very good job of it.

"The gov't, in turn, gave these to the people for next to nothing."

I got the impression from the article that the government turned a "blind eye" to these land grabs as they had no reason to oppose it. It would have been "unpopular", but they should have had some means to transfer title to the squatters. One dollar, with a contract, would have been sufficient.

I'm trying to imagine how FEMA can disburse funds to these people. Couldn't the government, now transfer these properties legally with a token payment?

glasater

Here's a thread on the security clearance mess..

The writer slams the WH but does provide some insight.

Account Deleted

"OK, later in the Nova show they are now claiming that their DNA studies show a single unique NDN source from 25K yrs ago out of Beringia and found nowhere else. Hmmm."

That is interesting. We Bear dance and fast fall and spring in the Sierra foothills east of, ironically enough, Clovis CA (60 miles to be exact).

That's on Mono land. Not high country but it gets damned cold Nov- mid-April ("spring fasts" are the 3rd weekend in March--- damned near froze to death).

Mono elder stories speak of 25,000 year old grinding holes in the granite water fall bed that send water of the winter thaw into the Kings River. Sorry. No data or comment from UC Berkeley on the matter. And the Mono don't care.

Now here's something to consider that scientists working for money at universities seldom do. Einstein was getting there.

The connection to Spirit. The Mono lands are some of the most spiritually active lands I've ever visited in the 50 states. Second most active is Patagonia, 8 miles north of the Mexican border, 53 miles below Tucson.

There is a connection between what lies buried in these locations, undisturbed, and what resides above our heads.

If we NDNs believed in archeology, genetic paleontology, which requires digging up remains, then we'd furnish settling proof for many of the eurocentric scholastic controversies over who were the first people.

Okay, so here is the part where you can suggest that I get treatment up at Vacaville CA--- our equivalent to Bellevue in NYC.

We see the first people. Our children get to a certain young age of one or two, when they can first speak---- and they tell us they are dreaming of "monsters."

We teach them to ask in their dreams for the monsters to show themselves (in human form) so they can talk with them. It's probably why my kids trust me as much as they do because they are always seeing the "First people" (and they are living in metropolitan areas, but have been to the spirit grounds above the Kings River).

Here is another connection between Spirit and material culture---namely language. We came up urban Spanish speakers because of the bounty laws, though repealed, were still in effect againt any kind of NDN in Califas. It was safer to be Mexican than NDN.

So that presents a problem to a Navajo mother who isn't taught her native tongue as a Mormon convert. When she asked me to bring the old ways back to her grandchildren and her greats (the spirit ways) I knew I had a problem.

How do I learn the language at age 52. I can't move to Arizona and learn a dialect. We're bears from the New Mexico high country near Taos. So I asked my Anchu (Northern Cheyenne).

"You will be taught through the Spirit. By your dreaming they will greet you and you will ask them for what you need."

So far, so slow. But I am making progress. And I'm reaching out to distant distant family in New Mexico for help.

That's all for now.

Kevlar "Shash" Kid

Account Deleted

Hey------> Posted by: Boricuafudd

I see you. Yer one of them "extinct" Taino?

:>)

Shash

Account Deleted

"And I've never seen anything that North American indigenous had anywhere that number. And I'm wondering why."

Non-cultivated food sources. Extremely different weather and seasonal patterns which allowed foods and access to seacoast (especially island-based people).

Compare being able to walk outside and gather sustenance from the trees in your arboreal region to having to work all spring and summer to save food for winter: high infant mortality and morbidity, warlike competition for food which precipitated "forced migration" during winters leading to high adult death and disease rates.

Two very different worlds the farther north into the plains, the northwest (eastern Washington---good gawd people died like dawgs), the mountain states.

Access to food and less time having to create protective clothing, process animal remains for tools etc. A lot more "looking up" you might say.

Sash

rich

>>>Over the years, I've gone back and found the post a couple times but I don't recall the key words I used to search anymore.

Is there someone familiar with that post, or with some subsequent article(s) on the same subject?

Posted by: JimNorCal | February 14, 2018 at 10:30 PM<<<

Kennewick Man ... the scientist who researched the bones described him as probably looking like "Picard"- Patrick Stewart.

rich

Sorry Appalled.

Sometimes the beer and your phraseology gets to me ... "breathtaking audacity"? Really? We've been bouncing around the immigration issue here for years-to no avail, impotently, screaming at the sky-and some expressions just really make my teeth itch. You found one. I have enjoyed your comments and company here over the years and meant no offense.

Yes I did trash you on a few ONTs (another blog) and almost got banned a while back. Some of them were pretty funny actually but did cross a line. For that, I also apologize.

rich

the world is so depressing ... heading to bed. 'til tomorrow.

maybe I can get in on that Indy meetup action?

Ralph L

I saw a program that estimated the Aztec empire at 47 million including vassals, which dropped to 1 million after a few years of Spaniards & small pox. Now I wonder if they said 4 to 7 million.

jim nj

Boricuafudd and Kevlar Kid,

I'm finding this fascinating.

Through genealogy I found out that I'm a 14th generation Mohawk descendant. Also a 2nd cousin, 7 times removed of President Van Buren. In other words, 9 generations ago we had a grandfather in common, I like to kid that that I'm Native American and American Royalty. Pshaw.

From Kev,
What I am curious about is the connection between population numbers and genetic evolution of the brains of said peoples. For example, Incan ruins suggest that curved architecture and construction required mathematical facility with at least 12th power polynomials.

That kind of brain power doesn't come from thinly populated cave dwellers with high infant mortality and morbidity rates.
------
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why did the the Central and South American Indians, develop agriculture, science, celestial observations, etc. They weren't hunter-gathers at that point, but most North American Indians were hunter gathers.

Why the disconnect?
-----
Now here's something to consider that scientists working for money at universities seldom do. Einstein was getting there.

The connection to Spirit. The Mono lands are some of the most spiritually active lands I've ever visited in the 50 states. Second most active is Patagonia, 8 miles north of the Mexican border, 53 miles below Tucson.

There is a connection between what lies buried in these locations, undisturbed, and what resides above our heads.
-----

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was recently commenting on weird things that happen when you're doing Genealogy. One of those was doing research in the area of Columbia and Greene Countys in NY. I've been up there a few times and one of the things that I picked up on was the sense of "home". It felt like home. Had I done so much research, beforehand, that it all fit, or did I have some kind of genetic memory. Is that possible? Seems to me that what you believe before being there might affect your judgement, or put you in touch with something else.

"We see the first people."

And I have seen my first people. Not so much because of handed down oral tradition.

But because of my genealogical research. Lot's of early NY Colonial history is available. He owned a sawmill. More than one because he moved several time. He had daughters and sons. Both sons were master carpenters. They lived on different sides of the Hudson River.


jim nj

Kev,

Your 3:08. No disagreement with any thing you say. Harder life in North America. Agreed.

But considering the high populations of indigenous to the south, is it possible that the North American indigenous also had a high culturization too, but lost it. And here I'm just speculating, but a "black swan" event that devolved North American indigenous peoples.

I'm trying very hard to understand why the population of North American indigenous would be lower than South and Central American indigenous populations. Did some of them move south through the North so quickly that North America was only a way station?

One would think that North America would be more densely populated, given the supposed migration routes.

I can't resolve this in my mind, unless the North American indigenous were hit by some catastrophe.

Does that make any sense?

jim nj

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/World_Map_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroups1.png

Posted by: Boricuafudd

OK, they show coastal sea routes for migration. I can believe that. I've argued for that.

So if Incas are related to North American indigenous, they could have taken a sea route, that bypassed Meso-America. Dropped some people off early, then continued their journey.

jim nj

So. I've been gone for two days. And I'm over-posting now, but the stuff posted has really grabbed my attention.

Time to say Nytol.

anonamom

What day is this? I've never been to Indianapolis...

Too bad we cannot have a JOM flash mob in Shapiro's when Daddy's in town.

It's actually doable for me as a day trip and I could probably pick up maryrose, Buckeye and Ann. Particularly since it doesn't seem like the Tarhole is likely to have CLE as a destination.

Posted by: Captain Hate

anonamom

How about a backwards Kon Tiki thing as an explanation of why there is limited relatedness between North and South Am indigenous??


And it looks to me like the people who want the "dessert turned to glass" are having their shot here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/marines-in-syria-fired-more-artillery-than-any-battalion-since-vietnam-2018-2

Interesting piece. Title pretty much tells the tale. They burnt out two howitzers, though that's kind of hard to do. Gives you an idea of how many projectiles they put down-range.

Posted by: jim nj

henry

All you NDN population people, what about the Cahokia Mounds civ? That had some population density and agriculture in the middle of North America. I was taught in school it was ended by disease from roaming spaniards, but I'm sure more is known now.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/14/trump-signs-law-prevent-abuse-athletes-response-usa-gymnastics-scandal/336879002/

Account Deleted

jim nj: Would you mind explaining this attitudinal sounding stuff in the following two excerpts, which responds directly to my posts:

"Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why did the the Central and South American Indians, develop agriculture, science, celestial observations, etc. They weren't hunter-gathers at that point, but most North American Indians were hunter gathers."

Yeah yeah yeah? You singin along to the Beatles?
LOL Wtf, man? Or are you in hearty agreement and in effect saying yes, yes, yes. BUT, I already provided a basically satisfactory, and the simplest explanation for population density differences--- FOOD SUPPLY VIABILITY ACROSS SEASONS.

I clearly stated that FOOD SOURCES were different for climate zones of deep southern Mexico, the Caribbean, and what is generally referred to as Latin America today.

I explained how seasonal food acquisition by Plains and tribes farther north had to spend more time subsisting to withstand brutal *LIFE REDUCING WINTERS* that depressed their populations.

The tribes nearer and below the equator had greater food supplies they practically didn't have to gather but to reach for it and eat, share with family. They didn't have to hunt beasts for meat or be concerned about body fat storage. Heat, warmth most of the year.

It's a very obvious distinction----> and it's pointed out in many early accounts by say somebody as reputable as Columbus' chaplain de las Casas that the demeanor of the people they encountered was like none he'd ever encountered----> there was an ease to life because FOOD was readily available practically year round.

Common sense: farther north, not so much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah?

Even the boys from "sunny Spain" (Cortez and company) were amazed at the ease with which food was available throughout the main city.

And here is your other quote; "She loves you" on repeat I guess---- "Yeah, yeah, yeah" re "Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was recently commenting on weird things that happen when you're doing Genealogy."

These aren't weird things to us. Your mindset is culturally skewed by the "explanation" complex or the need to know.

This is a thin veneer of understanding we strip away through ceremonies that i cannot discuss here. Okay. You want the facts and figures. But it sounds dead this quest to know. Then their is the dead cat bounce of "oh this is weird." What is that? It is a significant cultural difference.

It's as if your perspective in this area (because you are clearly an erudite man) is cut off from something vital. Spirit and the material are dichotomous for you *CULTURALLY*. By your view, and equating mine to "weird things" I can see that you *individuate* Spirit and material.

Yet there is an undisputed truth among the Old Ones and those who return here that shows the two realms are *UNDIVIDED*.


In contemporary parlance individual means "separate." To us, individual means "undivided"---- it's counterintuitive; it's one of the central teachings of our upbringing and it definitely isn't weird.

So when I say we see our first people it means that it can happen because our brains aren't stuck, if we're clean, sober and participating in ceremony and working with our Medicine; our brains aren't stuck on thin, cafeteria-style acquisition of knowledge based only on the faculties of reason and practical imaginings.

Our orientation, cosmology if you will, allows for multiple ways of knowing. And that leads to an absolute respect for the dead, not digging them nor ascribing to them "compulsory migration" patterns because Europeans migrated en masse during a critical 4 century period (a speck in the general scheme).

Any migration was based on survival needs. Northern and arctic tribes had to move to winter grounds away from the places where they could live and *EAT* in the spring and summer. But come fall, it was migration time to winter grounds for protection--- from the elements and their rivals.

Sure, the Bering Strait theory of migration holds some water; but not as much as some people seem to need it too. Because the compulsion or pressure to migrate was limited to far fewer tribes and bands who needed to move in order to survive as a people---- and they knew themselves as their own kind,different from the rest.

When my Dineh forebearers and our Apache cousins, Athabascan dialect speakers, moved from western Canada it was to find better grounds to feed themselves. They acclimated to the warmer climes by migrating---- but it was to survive.

Sure, people traveled North and people traveled South, but that wouldn't make sense if looked at in the same way as if one looked at MIGRATION patterns of Irish during famine and EXCURSIONS by Spaniards and French looking to extract wealth.

The Spanish and French, Dutch, and Germanic sorts didn't migrate--- they were military and mercantile profiteers. The convicted, conscripted, and the poor from those Nations were forced to relocate by law and custom. But is that the same as Irish escaping famine, a more compulsory motive?

Religious persecution spurred English migration.
My point is that the question who migrated and why begs the real question: what forced them to?

I think migration in discussions like these is conceptualized through a very Eurocentric lense. No harm. No foul. Just a self-imposed limitation based on schooling and cultural reinforcement by popular scholarship, media, film, books, fiction, "based on a true story" renditions. It all has a cumulative affect and effect on ways of knowing.

Cherokee migrated out of the deep South out of necessity. By virtue of then "laws of the land" Cherokees farming in the deep South began leaving the deep South for North Carolina, Ohio, Southern Penn, even Maryland as early 1792 when the Treaty of Holston was signed and implemented.

One of the interesting clauses in the Treaty of Holston was that any black people living among the Cherokee (Tsalagi) were to be returned to the US government agencies in the newly formed slave states because these escaped blacks, former slaves, were considered criminals.

More importantly blacks and Cherokees intermarried and multiplied far outnumbering white former colonists. So entire Cherokee communities were decimated with the apprehension of black Cherokee descendants who'd never lived under the lash. It certainly made the representation question easier to address when significant numbers of the population were simply outlawed and reduced to partial human status. That was the solution: reduce the numbers---- an execution still going on through science and research on indigenous life of the Americas.

My point here is that Cherokee migration began in 1791/2 out of necessity: live free or be enslaved.

I've seen people who are tied up in the way I am describing who are welcome to go through NDN ceremonies like inipi and animal spirit dances like bear,deer,wolf, dolphin, grass and ghost dances---- and a balance is restored making what becomes known firmly esconced in the individual as they "tether" to a desire to see the Spirit/material plan undividedly.

It will reformat one's understanding of NDN rootedness to our places on Earth, where we were meant to be, the locations that define our language, food, and Spirit. Migration was to avoid certain death by any number of privations.

Shash

And Goodnight. You may not see this tomorrow. I am sure a new thread will bury this.

Account Deleted

henry--- lived south of the Cahokia mound in deeper southern Illinois for 13 years. What i learned from my time there, was the story not told regarding the
burial aspect of that so-called "mysterious" formation.

That burial mound and the Shellmound Burial Mound here in Berkeley have thousands of years of ancestral remains. Cahokia has been left relatively undisturbed because there aren't the same developmental pressures as there have been at the Berkeley site (a one square mile shopping complex was erected on top of about 400 feet deep buried remains).

But the Shellmound by Ohlone accounts was a good 10 square miles round, and several hundred feet high---- bodies bundled and laid to rest and covered by mussel shells. Now, just in 2016 and 2017, NDN bones are surfacing 4 and 5 miles north of the commercial development, in drainage ditches just a few blocks from a very tony shopping district in west Berkeley on now prime Bay front real estate.

Some tribes didn't bury our ancestors. Some did.
Those who did left more to be known about our numbers and the UC Berkeley scholars "aint talkin."

Okay. It's 335 and I been on a serious writing jag. Tomorrow is my day off. :>) Lucky me.

Peace.

Shash

Miss Marple the Deplorable

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/14/exclusive-doj-official-bruce-ohr-hid-wifes-fusion-gps-payments-from-ethics-officials/?cache=3

Looks like intentional concealment of information.

Which puts us closer to a conspiracy.

Miss Marple the Deplorable

https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasacks/the-fbi-was-warned-about-a-school-shooting-threat-from?utm_term=.msR7qqDPRA#.fuA6EE1KWZ

Last September.

I assume the FBI was too busy with manufacturing stuff on Trump.

Miss Marple the Deplorable


Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
15h15 hours ago

My prayers and condolences to the families of the victims of the terrible Florida shooting. No child, teacher or anyone else should ever feel unsafe in an American school.

Miss Marple the Deplorable


Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
15h15 hours ago

Just spoke to Governor Rick Scott. We are working closely with law enforcement on the terrible Florida school shooting.

Miss Marple the Deplorable


Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
4m4 minutes ago

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

Miss Marple the Deplorable

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/15/general-mike-flynn-rudolph-contreras-and-the-increasingly-sketchy-fisa-application/

rse

On the Fla shooting, I had just finished the CtD manuscript when it was tine to register my youngest for high school classes. Since I knew how learning standards really work and the anti-tracking push, I asked the high school principal at a coffee for parents how they were handling math. My reading of the classes meant that the 'smart' 9th graders were in the same math class as the 'average' 10th graders and the 'slow' 11th graders. That's exactly what was being done with complete oblivion to the anger issues that would be created by the sudden juxtaposition of these very different kinds of minds.

He shouldn't have had access to those guns, but running education based on social theories of equity and inclusion for high school age kids can create the ire of inferiority in a disturbed mind even if those bright or average kids think they are being kind. It's a bad template.

Ralph L

I remember 2 grades being combined in our classes but not 3.

rse

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/14/nicholas-cruz-florida-shooter-had-flagged-threat-talked-using/ is far more graphic with pictures from cruz's instagram account than I have been seeing here

Janet 🚬 -  I wish my family had a poncho

from the Am. Greatness link -

" Since the Mail story broke February 6, the Washington Post has published 98 articles and columns targeting Kelly. The day after the allegations appeared, deputy editor Ruth Marcus was already blasting Kelly, claiming—without any proof—that Trump’s chief of staff “knew of the FBI reports.”"...

the link again -

https://amgreatness.com/2018/02/14/porter-saga-media-concern-abuse-secondary/

James D.

running education based on social theories of equity and inclusion for high school age kids can create the ire of inferiority in a disturbed mind even if those bright or average kids think they are being kind. It's a bad template.

Mind arson causes actual, real-world consequences.

henry

Mind arson causes actual, real-world consequences.

none that can't be solved by blaming the NRA and conservatives, plus more money. /sarc

lurkersusie

I never read this in the Post

MARK SIMONE
@MarkSimoneNY
The swamp House committee now wants to investigate why Rob Porter was working at The White House. Do they realize he also worked for Senator Rob Portman and Senator Mike Lee and was chief of staff for Senator Orrin Hatch? #PorterScandal

Janet 🚬 -  I wish my family had a poncho

#Resist #NotMyBestInShow #ProtectSchnauzers #RussianBotsLoveBishonFrise #FlynnTheBichonFriseIsAFascist

https://www.theonion.com/schnauzers-rioting-outside-madison-square-garden-follow-1823007726

Porchlight

Boy, the desperation is palpable. All this fuss over someone who no longer works at the WH in order to distract from federal crimes against American citizens.

Man Tran

I went to a one room school for my first 1-1/2 years. The next older kid was 4th grade then several in 6th, 7th, and 8th. I was reading the 4th grade books. No bullying or other social ills as I recall. A couple of siblings and all neighbors from adjacent ranchs. Innocent times.

When we moved to a farm town near glasater after a few months in Spokane, where I spent the whole time in bed recovering from every childhood disease, they wanted me to bump up a grade and start the 4th in the fall. I turned down the offer. I instinctively knew that was bad ju ju.

Captain Hate

Some of The Horde are worried that Ohr will be the fall guy allowing the likes of Yates and Rosenstein to skate free.

henry

CH, the lack of perp walks to date is stunning.

Captain Hate

I think they will happen, henry, judging from the high level resignations which have already happened. The scope of the corruption is huge and can't be dealt with as quickly as I'd prefer.

Old Lurker

"the lack of perp walks to date is stunning."

Broken Record, here. I have said for months that the moral hazard is to wait too long to publically apply equal justice for all under the law.

Losing a job, being moved to HR, retiring with a fat pension are not evidence of justice.

Old Lurker

I hear you, Cap'n, but they had best be about it or the damage will become permanent.

henry

Plus the idea that they are resolving everything behind the scenes is a s toxic as the deep state itself.

Public accountability for crimes. We the people are sovereign, not some jacked up beltway "elite."

Janet 🚬 -  I wish my family had a poncho

CH, the lack of perp walks to date is stunning.

This CTH link looks at that - https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/02/14/someones-doing-the-doj-and-fbi-interrogations-and-its-not-congress/

"Let me remind everyone that each of the aforementioned names is still within the system. Unlike Mike Kortan, David Laufman, Sally Yates, James Rybicki or Andrew McCabe, none of the five (Strzok, Page, Ohr, Baker, Priestap) have been removed. Peter Strzok is in FBI HR; Lisa Page is doing something; Bruce Ohr and James Baker are holding down chairs somewhere; and Bill Priestap is still Asst. FBI Director in charge of counterintelligence.

It doesn’t go unnoticed the media are transparently not following up on Peter, Lisa, Bruce Jim or Bill. No satellite trucks in front of their houses etc.; no pounding on their doors for comment etc. Nothing."...

Ralph L

Can they possibly get convictions from an inside the Beltway jury?

henry

Ralph, good piont. Move all trials to Topeka.

Janet 🚬 -  I wish my family had a poncho

About the latest shooting...

IMO, if we had a serious news media the media focus would be on what to do about serious mental health problems.

Also how to balance sending in tips, concerns, etc. to law enforcement with individual rights....both for the 'accused' & for whoever calls in the tips.
(the "clock boy" episode was a terrible lesson for getting good people to report sketchy behavior/actions)

This shooting & the Sandy Hook shooting seem very much alike. Mentally ill young men that nobody knew what to do with.

Captain Hate

Good points, Janet; instead of MOAR GUN LAWS, which are broken by the guilty anyway, the debate should be freedom versus safety.

henry

Typical Dem running for Congress:

https://www.wrn.com/2018/02/wisconsin-house-candidate-arrested-in-new-york-grand-theft-case/

Old Lurker

"Can they possibly get convictions from an inside the Beltway jury?"

That is another problem but no excuse for not trying them all.

Henry is dead right about this: "resolving everything behind the scenes is a s toxic as the deep state itself."

Captain Hate

No argument on the need for transparency; I don't think I implied otherwise.

Jack is Back!

Ever wonder how Beasts does it?

Hot Crazy Matrix, that's how.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QueiHJLV8S4&feature=youtu.be

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Wilson/Plame