Who And What Is Behind The Big McGahn Leakage to the Times?

The Times had a big Saturday story (the Dept of Oxymorons has allowed that formulation) on the cooperation of White House attorney Dan McGahn with the Mueller investigation.

White House Counsel, Don McGahn, Has Cooperated Extensively in Mueller Inquiry

By Michael S. Schmidt and Maggie Haberman    Aug. 18, 2018

WASHINGTON — The White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, has cooperated extensively in the special counsel investigation, sharing detailed accounts about the episodes at the heart of the inquiry into whether President Trump obstructed justice, including some that investigators would not have learned of otherwise, according to a dozen current and former White House officials and others briefed on the matter.

In at least three voluntary interviews with investigators that totaled 30 hours over the past nine months, Mr. McGahn described the president’s fury toward the Russia investigation and the ways in which he urged Mr. McGahn to respond to it. He provided the investigators examining whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice a clear view of the president’s most intimate moments with his lawyer.

This was all a part of the legal strategy - the truth will keep you free - urged by Trump's original legal team, which hoped to surprise Mueller by cooperating with him.

So who is leaking this and why?

Rudy Giuliani had an interesting suggestion: Team Mueller is panicking:

Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani suggested Saturday that investigators with the special counsel’s office are “panicking” by leaking information about White House counsel Donald McGahn’s cooperation in an effort to prod the president into testifying.

Say what? My handicapping has the arrows pointing in the opposite direction - Team Trump is leaking this to make the points that Trump has been cooperating and there is no need for Mueller to interview Trump since they already have his story by way of the White House attorney (who strictly speaking represents the office of the Presidency, not the current incumbent).

Do keep in mind that one of their objections to a potential Mueller subpoena is that the President won't be providing essential information. Here we go from Douglas Kmiec, former head of the DoJ OLC under Reagan and Bush, commenting on a letter from Trump's attorneys to Mueller:

Who decides when a presidential interview can be refused or subpoena quashed? The authors of the letter think the question is answered by a lower-court ruling, United States vs. Espy, decided in 1997 during the presidency of Bill Clinton. The letter claims that to overcome a privilege claim, special counsel must show that evidence is obtainable from no other source than the president.

This is overstatement. The court of appeals speculated that the ruling would delay obtaining evidence, not preclude it. 

I had tackled that back when the letters were getting attention in these two posts (the second of which focused on the Kmiec article). The upshot was that Team Trump has an arguable but probably losing position, although the factual context will be critically important and is at this point speculative.

But my mind-reading is this: The key United States versus Nixon case covered a subpoena for evidence that would be produced at trial. Here we are talking about a grand jury. The prosecutors are looking for enough evidence to indict, not proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. So I suspect Team Trump will ask, what is Trump's testimony going to add beyond the tale told by the White House attorney? 

At trial Trump might be a useful corroborating witness, but for a grand jury? If Trump is telling the same story as his attorney he may have added a bit of confidence but he hasn't added new information. Or, if Trump is telling a different story from his attorney than the case is a muddle, which may hinder rather than help the grand jury (Yeah, Team Trump is just trying to save Mueller from himself, amirite?)

I would guess that Steve Vladeck and Benjamin Wittes of Lawfare would come to a different conclusion about grand jury subpoenas but if the evidentiary standard for indictment is lower than for a conviction at trial, the importance of an appearance by the President ought to be less.

Well - that's my two cent speculation as to where Team Trump is headed with this. But how does a leak by Team Mueller that Trump has been very cooperative and they know just about all the advice he got and what he said in key meetings put pressure on Trump to tell his story?

Comments

[narciso]

He was a bureau agent that ended up in the counter terror fusion center, yes he doesn't seem to inspire confidence.

[Pinandpuller]

One of the first things they said in Water Safety Instruction is you can't save someone if you can't save yourself.

[narciso]

Basically he was responsible for every area in the worst possible way;

https://www.leadingauthorities.com/speakers/philip-mudd

[Pinandpuller]

I think stoat is also a term used about pigs.

[Miss Marple]

Son came home from work and was really giving Rod Stewart rave reviews. He knew about the model trains, by the way.

The show was Vegas-style with a band, dancers, and some girls who came out in the middle and played "Scotland the Brave" on violins. LOL!

[Pinandpuller]

There is a novel called Agenda 21 by Glenn Beck my mom bought for some reason and passed on to me.

It was basically about a dystopian world where most of the people's jobs were to generate electricity for the collective. Their caloric and water requirements were finely calculated. The protagonist would get on a treadmill and generate her allotted power every day.

I feel like we're living in the exact opposite world right now.

[Dave (in MA)]

Sharpton Remix

[Dave (in MA)]

Sounds a bit like this Black Mirror episode, Pin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_Million_Merits

[narciso79]

Well why not, but dewey andreas would know what to do:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/19/exclusive-jeremy-corbyn-attended-conference-qatar-hamas-military/

[narciso79]

Crikey this fellow badran, is a nasty piece of work sbarro pizzeria, dolphinarium discotheque, naturally his the Ron popeil of the biz.

[narciso79]

All reads lead to doha

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1005604/Turkey-lira-crisis-Qatar-investment-currency-swap-Erdogan-Donald-Trump-US-sanctions

[jim nj]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-to-shake-up-military-leadership-with-new-nominations-report/ar-BBM8rW0?li=BBnb7Kz

Shake-up, no. Informed scuttlebutt about who will be replacing retiring generals.

[narciso]

Seem like some good choices, from a cursory examination.

[Miss Marple]

jim nj,

One thing I am glad about is that Mattis knows a lot of these people so we won't get any weasels like Ralph Peters.

[narciso]

Well Peters never made full bird colonel, I don't think Anthony Shaffer did either but still. Look at all the cow droppings you have to avoid around that story.

[Miss Marple]

Nytol!

[Captain Hate]

Back home again.

Thank you, TM, for erasing a sock puppet. I have no idea what was commented in my name but if it fooled a couple regulars it couldn't have been *too* obvious. Anyway, if Teddy's my avatar then it's me unless typhus logs me out for some random reason.

I wholeheartedly agree with JiB in how the security clearance issue has been framed by the MFM completely ignores the reason for them in the first place. All those lazy seditious turds care about are access to leaks.

[narciso]

It seemed off, Zuul is not very good at sock supporting, I didn't think they could have a greater circle jerk than previohus weeks but this was so continuous it levitated the studio.

[narciso]

Glad you had a good trip, captain, I wouldn't have really guessed that about kev, and first glance, although he might have left some clues.

[narciso79]

Beam me up Scotty:
https://abc7.com/politics/ca-bill-attempts-to-curb-sugary-drink-consumption-among-children-/3987843/

[Captain Hate]

Kev is a really good guy; so good that I made a point to have him come in and meet the family after we'd chatted for a couple hours. But the whole trip was very good.

I finished the reread of The Master and Margarita on the return flight

[narciso79]

I got the translation from Katherine Tierney Connor, the foot note aren't bunched up as much.

[jim nj]

https://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2018/08/19/caroline-glick-andrew-brunson-case-proves-u-s-turkey-alliance-has-been-over-for-years/

I agree with her, the alliance has been over for sometime.

[jim nj]

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/08/18/world-view-pentagon-military-assessment-details-chinas-preparations-for-war/

These are annual reports, so expect the expected.

[jim nj]

https://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2018/08/19/report-turkey-to-defy-u-s-and-continue-bilateral-trade-with-iran/

Fine we'll sanction any Turkish bank that facilitates that trade. Instead of the predicted recession, Turkey will suffer a depression.

Time to abandon Incirlik. Move it to Israel or Crete.

Erdogan is clearly an enemy of the US. Why continue on like Turkey, under his command, is still an ally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

Created artificial borders in 1916 all across the mid-east. I don't know if any were changed after WWII, except for the Palestine division.

Maybe it's time to take a bite out of Turkey to create the state of Kurdistan.

[jim nj]

You know I understand the need the need for well-educated diplomats highly skilled in negotiations with many years of experience.

I recognize that diplomacy is like a waltz. An artform, a craft, with very subtle nuances involved, and yet...

Sometimes I'd like a brutal, radical, tactician to go somewhere and declare that this is what's going to happen. And if you really think you can fight back, here's what we're going to do.

We've thought about this a long time, you're only pretending to be our friend, we know you're not, so we don't intend to fight fair. We know how to undermine you and we're going to start doing it if we leave this conference table without an a agreement. And, oh yes, this is the end of diplomatic overtures.

Call us when you're ready to surrender.

[jim nj]

Two nights in a row, where's the rest of the night crew?

[jim nj]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/402588-white-house-rejects-turkeys-offer-to-release-detained-pastor-wsj

"Ankara offered to drop terrorism charges against Brunson if the U.S. pulled back the billions of dollars in fines it has brought against Halkbank. The U.S. reportedly declined the offer, setting in motion the possibility of further retaliatory measures against Turkey."

Background:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/16/world/turkish-iran-sanctions-trial.html

Turkish banker convicted and fines levied for dealing with Iran under the prior sanctions agreement.

And Turkey proposes to break our sanctions again? Me, I'd be perfectly happy to take down their entire banking system with sanctions and prosecutions.

[jim nj]

The facade has dropped, Rev. Brunson, is guilty of being a bargaining chip, nothing more, nothing less.

Turkey is trying to get something for his release. No wonder Trump is pissed, he thought he had a straight up exchange, and Erdogan reneged.

Right now, I assume as far as Trump is concerned, Rev. Brunson has to be released without condition, as originally agreed.

If not, we're going to hammer them again and again.

Go ahead, trade with Iran, we'll sanction the rest of your banks.

Let's be clear we are at war with Turkey.

[jim nj]

https://www.albawaba.com/business/iran-turkey-need-more-desperate-measures-face-us-sanctions-1175664

I get a yes from Albawaba.

[jim nj]

https://intpolicydigest.org/2018/08/19/america-s-real-threat-in-the-middle-east-is-not-iran-but-turkey/

And another yes. Expect the Kurds to change their negotiating stance toward Turkey. I mean why not, Erdogan is wounded.

[jim nj]

Turkey and Iran are reducing the waterflow into Irag.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/19/iraqs-water-flow-cut-dams-iran-turkey/

Seems to me the new dams are legitimate targets.

[jim nj]

Apologies if I seem I'm in war-mongering mode, but there are large opportunities here, if managed correctly.

[jim nj]

And I'm not going to see any comments on this from the day crew.

Like I saw no comments on the Chinese P2P lending that I laid out last night.

I'm going to play solitaire instead of commenting.

[hoyden]

Good morning, jim nj.

I think of myself as more of an early morning purveyor rather than a member of the night crew. I usually arrive around 0300 JOM time and start reading and catching up with the conversations. Most of the time I don't have a lot to say or share.

I appreciate your links to topics I would have never encountered in my usual rounds.

Now I'm off to work.

[Pinandpuller]

Buckeyette procures logistics services for a Big Pharma company. She said truck driving jobs in Texas are paying $140K/year.

Jobs are going unfilled. Punks can't pass the drug screen.

Posted by: Buckeye | August 19, 2018 at 05:31 PM

Back before I got my CDL and Hazmat I would see all these jobs requiring a TX endorsement and I was like, wow-lots of runs to Texas.

[Pinandpuller]

Sounds a bit like this Black Mirror episode, Pin.

Posted by: Dave (in MA) | August 19, 2018 at 11:43 PM

In the first season of The Orville there was a planet where they had personal up and downvote counters integrated to their person. If they accumulated too many downvotes they could be executed, I think.

[Pinandpuller]

They aren't sending their best

https://abc7.com/ie-man-arrested-while-taking-pregnant-wife-to-hospital-wanted-for-murder-ice-says/3994494/

[Pinandpuller]

I ever move to Omaha I'm buying a Nissan Leaf

https://www.ketv.com/article/two-shootings-at-same-bucky-s-one-victim-dies/22707365

[hoyden]

Linked by Instapundit,

Aside from being an old pal, for whom the President presumably felt at least a smidgen of loyalty and trust, it may also have been that he was channeling LBJ, who is supposed to have said of J. Edgar Hoover, “It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in.” General Kelly never did a job so well as that of giving her the official sack, as is proved in her own tape of the matter: polite, professional and implacable. Of all the people in the world I’d not like to have professionally pissed off at me, General Kelly is in the top five. And as it has now developed – Ms. Manigault Newman’s credibility is pretty much in shreds among those who otherwise might have been inclined to lend an ear to her tales of Trumpindysfunction.

http://www.ncobrief.com/index.php/archives/the-omarosenleid/

[Pinandpuller]

An elderly British politician has been savagely beaten to a bloody pulp by a gang of anti-Trump protestors because he 'welcomed' the US President to the UK on Thursday.74-year-old Sir Christopher Meyer has been hospitalized with his injuries after he was set upon by a mob of thugs in London at around 3 pm local time.Sir Meyer, who is the former UK Ambassador to the United States, was targetted after he publically expressed his support for Donald Trump's visit.The retired diplomat was left with a bleeding and swollen eye socket, a burst lip and a possible broken nose.

READ MORE: https://neonnettle.com/news/4514-british-politician-beaten-by-protestors-for-welcoming-trump-to-the-uk-
© Neon Nettle

[Miss Marple]

jim nj,

I appreciate those articles on Turkey and didn't know about the water situation for Iraq. That is crap.

I am with you. They aren't our friend and I go with pushing the sanctions until their banks collapse.

[James D.]

Jim nj @ 3:24

I’d vote for you.

[anonamom]

jim, no comments does NOT mean NOT APPRECIATED---quite the opposite. Even before you noted that there are no daytime comments, often, I intended to thank you for what you post---you bring unexamined facts in; that's what makes JOM JOM.
Such a variety of backgrounds here!

You cover finance and international affairs, don't you know?
And I shall never forget your account of your life since 9/11--ever. Thank you for that. Such an insight in to PTSD for me.

I was particularly happy you've posted even when you were all alone---I too know that feeling when you have the third in a row post with your name on it!

I also know the feeling of no comments on links--but then will have a couple talk about them hours, days, weeks later. Or see it re-posted.

it's just how it goes here---it's about th ripples from your stone--they can be quiet, but they reach the far edges of the lake--quietly, much of the time.

[Robin, a fed up deplorable]

JimNJ,

Love your links and comments....I don’t comment much as I am usually too far behind to add anything relevant, but I am grateful for your POV and the time you take to lay out an argument.

[Robin, a fed up deplorable]

I am also reminded by the events in Turkey that the administration is battling on a lot of fronts. It is simply amazing what competent people can accomplish, it’s a wonder that the president gets any sleep at all!

[Buckeye]

JimNJ, second what the ladies said.

[Beasts of England]

Concur with the above - jim nj is my pre-Miss Marple news feed, and I appreciate both.

[Miss Marple]

https://amgreatness.com/2018/08/19/trumps-character-and-trumps-presidency/

Horowitz answers Jonah Goldberg.

[Miss Marple]

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
12m12 minutes ago

Disgraced and discredited Bob Mueller and his whole group of Angry Democrat Thugs spent over 30 hours with the White House Councel, only with my approval, for purposes of transparency. Anybody needing that much time when they know there is no Russian Collusion is just someone....

....looking for trouble. They are enjoying ruining people’s lives and REFUSE to look at the real corruption on the Democrat side - the lies, the firings, the deleted Emails and soooo much more! Mueller’s Angry Dems are looking to impact the election. They are a National Disgrace!

[Miss Marple]

http://dailycaller.com/2018/08/19/dem-rep-jokes-president-trump-drowning/

Alcee Hastings, that noted man of great character.

[Miss Marple]

Rudy Giuliani
‏Verified account @RudyGiuliani
7m7 minutes ago

Since proven leaker Comey is now sanctimoniously lecturing us on truth, I can say sometimes the truth is clear it’s the opposite of what Jim Coney is saying. His disgraceful performance with the FBI makes him the last person who should pontificate on truth.

[Miss Marple]

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/historic-black-business-ownership-under-trump-jumps-400-in-one-year/

[Another Bob]

The Goldberg reply to Horowitz was remarkably low-character for someone complaining about character. But it fits right in with the National Review crowd.

I guess rank hypocrisy is the price Goldberg pays to take Cliff Asness‘ money.

[Miss Marple]

https://cbs4indy.com/2018/08/19/postal-worker-finds-huge-8-foot-python-lounging-on-kansas-mailbox/

Yikes! Pictures at the article.

[Miss Marple]

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
7m7 minutes ago

Where’s the Collusion? They made up a phony crime called Collusion, and when there was no Collusion they say there was Obstruction (of a phony crime that never existed). If you FIGHT BACK or say anything bad about the Rigged Witch Hunt, they scream Obstruction!

[Miss Marple]

Another Bob,

As I said the other day, I would not be surprised to find out that Goldberg knew about the Fusion GPS thing as well as Kristol.

He started this anti-Trump crusade back during the primaries, and he has gotten worse and worse. I quit following him on Twitter because he was so arrogant and condescending.

He's marginalized himself. He used to be witty and fun to read. Now he's just dreary and, quite frankly, repulsive.

Contrast him with Mark Steyn, who has made an effort to understand how Trump operates and has retained his sense of humor.

[henry]

Progressives doing their thing:

What could go wrong by having the state mandate that technological progress be slowed down?

The European Parliament also hopes the resolution will also stimulate job creation, because it should result in more independent repair services.

https://cafehayek.com/2018/08/cant-make-stuff-department.html

[Extraneus]

Thanks, Janet, for the Phillip Mudd links. Never heard of the a-hole.

[henry]

pry it out of Venezuelan hands:

Washington Post @washingtonpost

Opinion: It’s time to reclaim "socialism" from the dirty-word category wapo.st/2BmvdJy

[jimmyk]

MM@7:34am
The best column I've seen yet to confront TDS. I thankfully missed the fight between Horowitz and Goldberg, but Jonah seems deranged, while Horowitz comes off as level-headed, and saddened by what has become of Jonah.

I’m betting there isn’t another Republican who would not have wilted under these attacks. Who would have had the fortitude to stay the course, and keep his promises. That’s really good character. And it’s presidential.

So true. And as to character, how is Trump any less "presidential" than, say, LBJ?

[Miss Marple]

https://nypost.com/2018/08/18/the-medias-hatred-of-trump-is-only-hurting-itself/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons

[hrtshpdbox]

There's no question in my mind that these stories about Michael Cohen's alleged bank fraud are being floated now to deflect from a Manafort not guilty verdict today or later this week.

[henry]

Mueller pulling a Wimpy? "I'll gladly indict someone next week for a headline today."

[Miss Marple]

hrtshpdbox,

Agree, along with the other line that Trump's becoming unstable, hinting at dementia.

That was being pushed by Brian Stelter of CNN and Joe Scarborough of MSNBC.

I watched the entire cabinet meeting the other day. He was on top of everything and wanted to make sure certain cabinet officials emphasized key points.

[Another Bob]

We basically agree on that MM. Goldberg is more interested in the care and feeding of his ego, than any set of principles. In two ways.

One, the people making the “invitation to the right cocktail parties” arguments are overstating, but have it basically right that the Goldbergs want to preserve what they think is their hard-won “place at the table”.

Two, I think the irrational virulence of Nevertrumpism on the right is indicative of something deeply personal and psychological. I have a hard time explaining it. Maybe it’s just a variant of the “clean toga” meme/metaphor. They think their’s is the work of people in starched white togas, and finding that a vulgarian in rags does it better makes them question themselves at some basic level.

Maybe I’m just babbling.

[Miss Marple]

I am on hold with Social Security. I STILL have not received my payment and I need to know what's going on.

It's a good thing I have had some money saved or I wouldn't have been able to pay my bills!

[Miss Marple]

AP: Market poised for longest-running bull market ever

https://apnews.com/89765b4a4f9f4b1ca995bd8763b44e9d

[Miss Marple]

http://thefederalist.com/2018/08/20/papers-saying-papadopoulos-lied-fbi-fbi-shows-either-also-lying-incompetent/

[Miss Marple]

President Trump will host an event this afternoon honoring ICE agents.

[Extraneus]

Washington, DC (February 13, 2018) — American Enterprise Institute (AEI) President Arthur C. Brooks announced today the creation of the Asness Chair in Applied Liberty. Made possible by a generous gift of $2.4 million from the Asness Family Foundation that will provide funding for 15 years, this chair will support an AEI scholar whose work is dedicated to reconciling individual freedom with cultural values that make freedom and progress possible. AEI Fellow Jonah Goldberg will be the first scholar to hold the chair.

http://www.aei.org/press/press-release-aei-fellow-jonah-goldberg-named-inaugural-holder-of-the-asness-chair-in-applied-liberty/

[narciso]

Those are fascinating insights Jim hi no publication is,willing to tweek the dragons tale. Consistently.

[Another Bob]

That was my reference to Asness ext.

[Extraneus]

From MM's 8:29:

Strzok’s texts reveal he arrived in London on August 1 and flew back to the District of Columbia on August 3, following at least one meeting and several interviews, bringing with him a slew of documents.

Two-plus months later, the DOJ filed its first of four Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act applications for a court order to wiretap a different Trump campaign advisor—Carter Page.

Have we ever seen evidence of a prior warrant application that was denied, or was that just an unsubstantiated rumor?

[hrtshpdbox]

Stelter's one of the worst, MM, Trump can never be wrong saying "fake news" as long as people like him are around. Good luck with that SS check search, ouch!

[DebinGA]

The rejected June 2016 FISA was widely reported, Ex, but I've seen nothing re why it was rejected or if the successful Nov FISA submission had any resemblance to it.

[Captain Hate]

Goldberg and Kristol can go fuck themselves. They've had a year and a half of Reaganesque policies so it's something other than commitment to conservative values that's driving their animosity. Frankly I'm not interested in figuring out what's motivating them because they're on the other side and that's the only thing that matters. They've shown the content of their character and it's lacking.

[Extraneus]

Yeah, Bob. I'd never heard of him until you mentioned that, but I've suspected that money is involved in the cases of Washington Free Beacon and Kristol, and it wouldn't be surprising to find out that National Review is on the payroll as well. Peter Singer was the WFB benefactor when the employed GPS Fusion and was also Rubio's big backer during the primaries. Was Asness active in the primaries?

[Jane]

I agree with Horowitz article, but disagree with all the conjecture about Jonah. I'm quite confident he didn't know about the Steel dossier, and there are people at National Review who are very pro-Trump. There was certainly no economic motive as the anti=Trumpers were scared they would destroy their livings because they would not be invited to talk on TV.

Oh and there's a new thread!

[Extraneus]

The rejected June 2016 FISA was widely reported

I know, but was the reporting based on fact?

[Captain Hate]

Stop whining, jim. Commenters here regularly don't focus on my priorities so I just shrug my big boy shoulders and move on.

[DebinGA]

...the highest volume of African American entrepreneurs lives in Texas, followed by Georgia, California, Florida, and North Carolina.

During the Jim Crow era black businesses flourished out of necessity. The stories of "grandpa's shoe repair" type small businesses likely live on.

[Captain Hate]

Peter Singer was the WFB benefactor when the employed GPS Fusion and was also Rubio's big backer during the primaries.

I think that's Paul Singer; Peter is the nutty academic that wants to abort everyone.

[Miss Marple]

http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/402521-clapper-brennans-rhetoric-is-becoming-an-issue-in-and-of-itself

[Old Lurker]

What I like about Capn's 8:50 is that he says so clearly exactly what I think. Including no longer caring to try to figure them out on the off chance that they are right and I am wrong. Those days...they be long gone.

Welcome home cap'n.

[DebinGA]

I know, but was the reporting based on fact?

I think so as the May FISA rejection prompted the FBI's hiring of Steele to work with Whoa, Nellie to just make stuff up.

[Captain Hate]

Thanks, OL. It's good to be home, kind of...

[Old Lurker]

"I think that's Paul Singer; Peter is the nutty academic that wants to abort everyone."

Whereas Paul is the Hedge Fund guy who also pisses people off with regularity.

I am having dinner tomorrow with an international CEO who had a brutal, public, very public, spat with the guy. I will have fun probing for tidbits.

:-)

[Old Lurker]

Did we break the place today?

[Old Lurker]

Nevermind. They moved to the new thread!