Darn That Senate! An Urban Party Lacks Rural Appeal

Dylan Matthews of Vox discovers that the Democratic urban appeal plays poorly in rural states, which still get two Senate seats.

The Senate is a huge problem for Democrats

And it’s not going to get better soon.

Despite a great night in House elections, Democrats have lost ground in the Senate. Depending on what happens in Florida and Arizona, the party will hold anywhere between 46 and 48 seats in the US Senate. Any of those options represents a net loss for the party, which currently holds 49 seats.

That’s bad enough for the party in the near term. But it’s worse in the medium run. This year’s losses mean that Democrats will have a very hard time retaking the Senate in 2020.

Before the election, FiveThirtyEight’s Nathaniel Rakich noted that with a 52-48 Senate in Republicans’ favor, Democrats in 2020 would need to hold on to Doug Jones’s seat in Alabama, defeat both Susan Collins in Maine and Cory Gardner in Colorado, and pick up a seat in a red state by ousting at least one of Thom Tillis in North Carolina, Joni Ernst in Iowa, Jon Kyl in Arizona (who’s not seeking reelection), or David Perdue in Georgia. (They’d need one less if they also take the presidency.)

...

The upshot is clear: Democrats will probably remain in the minority in the Senate until at least 2022. That failure will have grave consequences not just for the prospects of future progressive legislation, like Medicare-for-all or action on climate change, but also for the next few decades of the federal judiciary.

Mr. Matthews duly notes that if Republicans hold the Senate in 2020 the outlook for a successful wave of progressive legislation from President Sanders and VP Ocasio-Cortez dims a bit. Doncha love it when Vox is your go-to good-news source?

Part of the Dem problem is that they have lost legacy seats in states that are currently viewed as Red in Presidential elections:

Why retaking the Senate might be structurally difficult for Democrats

Democrats used to rely heavily on seats in red states — not just swing states like Ohio or Iowa, but deep-red states like the Dakotas and Arkansas — for their Senate majority. They don’t anymore, and the Senate map looks increasingly identical to the presidential map. 2016 was the first year in the history of direct Senate elections that every state’s Senate election outcome matched its presidential outcome. That can mean only bad things for Democrats’ viability in the Senate in the medium to long run.

 

Democrats’ losses in 2018 were concentrated overwhelmingly in deep-red states. Republicans flipped Missouri, Indiana, and North Dakota, none of which are normally competitive for Democrats in national elections (flukes like Obama’s 2008 win in Indiana aside), but where Democrats could compete because of popular incumbents from a less polarized age. Similar things happened in 2010 and 2014 in states like Arkansas, North Dakota, South Dakota, Louisiana, and Alaska, and the 2010 losses weren’t reversed in 2016; indeed, in most cases, like Arkansas and North Dakota, Democrats didn’t even really try to reverse the losses in 2016.

Until the emerging Democratic majority moves out of urban centers and repopulates flyover country this will be a problem for the Dems. And there are some issues - gun control springs to mind - where urban voters and rural voters are unlikely to get on the same page.

Now, there are political theorists who believe the goal of a political party should be to figure out the rules and deliver a message that wins elections so they can implement their policy preferences. Others seem to think that if quirks in the current rules prevent a national majority from having its way, it is the rules than need changing, not the message. Hmm.

Since it's a Football Friday let's go with a dumb football analogy. The Jacksonville Jaguars have an impressive defense and a quarterback who couldn't hit the side of a barn if he were throwing from inside. What should they do?

Well, whinging about the strict rules on defensive pass interference and lobbying to change them might provide a boost to their prospects. Or they could get a decent quarterback! OK, if that was easy, plenty of other teams would do that too.

Still, developing a national message that is acceptable both to their big Dem donors on the coasts and the rubes in flyover country they are trying to sway should not be an insurmountable problem. OK, its a bit of a challenge since there seem to be progressive thought leaders who want to disempower and then disembowel white men, and white women if necessary. But let's just describe that as creative tension. Or oh-so-clever irony.

Do not let me overlook Mr. Matthews' conclusion:

It’s not obvious, to me, how Democrats get out of that bind.

I love a mystery.

Comments

[Dave Seville]

--JNC: “Probably aimed at me.”

Nah, I’m pretty sure that was aimed elsewhere.--

It was aimed at TK.

[henry]

A "party of Science" that thinks food comes from grocery stores. That electricity doesn't require mining or drilling (yes, solar cells and batteries require mining those nasty rare earth elements). That gender sex comes in more flavor than ice cream.

Maybe they should come out to a dairy farm and milk some bulls.

[PDinDetroit]

Happy belated birthdays to Captain Hate and Tonto.

CH - I am not surprised you are a fellow Scorpio...

[alex]

I love the talking points that the suburban moms were so appalled by Trump's abrasive and boorish behavior that they decided to vote for the democrats. If anything they would have sat out the election rather than vote for the dems . What exactly was Trump doing that these non political actors would sign up for the resistance.

[Dave Seville]

I'm not sure what Trump was supposed to do.
Hire retired spec ops guys to go down and put the bag on any Dem counting phony ballots?
Have Mattis mow them down in the streets?
As appealing as that is, the way it works is the Dems come up with phony ballots and try to bend the rules and the Rep observers and workers keep an eye on it and the Reps sue and take it all to court.
These events always occur in blue hells in which progs hold all the cards and short of martial law the only to fight it is observationally and legally.
We have no way of knowing who was on the ground when and where, but I find it unlikely a guy as prepared as Trump didn't have things mobilized.

[Miss Marple]

I am amazed at how these people think rural people should be disenfranchised.

[PDinDetroit]

henry - it is not that they do not care, it is that they do not know enough to care. It appears that is "by design". A feature, not a bug. The "how" and "why" simply fall away like so much chaff...

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Matthew's was the chuckle head who used a no such thing as free choice, argument for Obama care.

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Its not surprising at all who do you think went to the umap the laogai the gulag, on balance.

[Dave Seville]

When even Porch has flipped her lid on Trump being to blame for something that he probably had covered to the extent he could and will probably not amount to a hill of beans anyway, I think I better join CH and hit the trail.

[Thomas Collins]

Dems are better at ballot stuffing, so they have that advantage. Let's see whether Dems can "Franken" McSally and Scott.

[rich]

Pox-my go to source for explanatory journalism!

medicare-for-others and climate change!!!

wealthy white Dylan gets concierge care and pop's is a software engineer ... but he must be smart because he is a liberal and harvard grad.

[PDinDetroit]

The snow falling is peaceful here in Metro Detroit. The Cardinals are out, with 3 female Cardinals vying for the attention of 1 male Cardinal. Maybe they know it will be down to 24 degrees F tonight...

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

You can't fisk vox it's like plumbing the wormhole in that Christopher nolan film

[Rocco]

We can thank President Trump for the victory we have. Who worked harder than him to get out the vote? The problem...NO ONE is helping him!

[Dave Seville]

Before I go, this was inevitable;
Dutch dude wants the government to change his birth certificate to show he's forty nine not sixty nine so he can get more dates on Tinder.
If a dude can whack the peepee he was born with and join the girls track team then why shouldn't this dude be able to whack the date he was born on and identify as a youngster?

[henry]

Socialists first attack the farmers. See USSR, and modern Venezuela, with South Africa an in process bonus. Then the food supply collapses (Duh) and only the elite cadre and their chosen few get the food from those capitalists in the US. The true stupidity of the socialists here is that when the kill US farms, there is no country that produces a surplus to feed the cadre.

[rich]

>>>Hire retired spec ops guys to go down and put the bag on any Dem counting phony ballots?<<<

lol ... not going to run with this. but where is Mitch Rapp when we need him? and Frank Castle.

[alex]

For some reason, I feel that this theater is part of foreig policy issues and who can withstand ongoing crisis more, Us versus the rest of the world. Obama and the globalists were willing to sell US short and China and Islamism would become dominating powers. Trump is trying to change course and it is question of who blinks or collapses first. Do not for one minute think that China and Iran were not underwriting the democrats war chest.

[rich]

>>>Posted by: Bernardi Dr la paz | November 09, 2018 at 10:01 AM

it is too much effort for me to even click over to the link. yeah let's just do away with the Senate and electoral college ... even better, let's just get rid of elections too and appoint an enlightened dictatorship like they have in China.

[rich]

too bad we couldn't have repealed the 22nd amendment in 2010 and kept perfection-the Obama Administration-in office.

[Miss Marple]

I consider the mood here a sign that I should get some housework done.

The President leaves for France today sometime. I am proud of him and will not participate in criticism when no one really knows what is going on behind the scenes.

Right now laundry looks like a pleasant exercise.

Back later!

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

This is why the vaporized cambridge analytica even though they admit now there was no Russian tie.

[henry]

Huh?

Bob Loeb @BobLoeb
15m

Today's order from the DC Circuit asking for briefing re the new Acting AG. Will the special counsel argue that the Acting AG's appointment was unconstitutional?

https://twitter.com/BobLoeb/status/1060909370446397440

[Stephanie, Nene, Not your Normal Grandma]

I'll change the mood...

Paige entered the world at 4:37 this morning weighing in at 5 lbs. 3 oz. No word yet on whether she is in NICU (probably is) but mom and baby doing fine. No pics yet as I think everyone is sleeping now.

Planning on going to visit tonight or tomorrow. Weather suggests tomorrow.

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Of course there can't be any challenge to Mueller, even though his appointment was illegal.

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Wonderful stephanie.

[James D.]

Hire retired spec ops guys to go down and put the bag on any Dem counting phony ballots?

I don't really have a problem with this.

[henry]

Congrats Stephanie!

[pagar, a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

Good News, Stephanie!

[James D.]

I am amazed at how these people think rural people should be disenfranchised.

I think most of them would rather that the rural people (and white people, particularly men, generally) die off entirely.

There is no shortage of progressives who will openly and proudly say it. We ought to take them at their word.

[James D.]

even better, let's just get rid of elections too and appoint an enlightened dictatorship like they have in China.

Ah, the Tom Friedman approach.

[James D.]

Wonderful news, Stephanie!!!

[derwill]

The Dems always try to steal elections. Always. And most times they get away with it. What scares me the most this time around is that FL and AZ should never have been close to steal. That woman in AZ has been blatantly anti-American and disdainful of Arizona, and has done so on the record. There were videos for God’s sakes. Why would anyone—including registered Dems— vote for someone who openly and gleefully despises them.

The leaders in the Dem party hate and disdain all of us—even their own voters, and especially the blacks and Jews. They’ve been openly exposing their hatred for years. Why we can’t exploit that us beyond me.

[rich]

great news stephanie.

[Stephanie, Nene, Not your Normal Grandma]

Is it possible that democrats are intentionally mishandling cities like SF, LA, Atlanta, Houston forcing their voters out to the red suburbs with the immigrant hordes coming in behind to continue the voting patterns in the suburbs that they did in the cities? All the purpling of red states is mostly migration within the US from blue to red making a nasty purple.

Chain migrating democrats IOWs?

[James D.]

I'm not sure what Trump was supposed to do.

In all seriousness, what he should do is demand that McTurtle not seat the Dem thieves, and use whatever leverage he has to make him obey.

Of course, McTurtle ought to be doing that all on his own.

[GUS]

Is the concept of the FULL COMMIE setting in yet??

They aren't playing, they are taking what they want. Emboldened, the war gets closer every day.

Tucker Carlson's home was attacked by the FULL COMMIE, my GOOGLE ANDROID story of the day, told me that ANTIFA, is anti-Fascist and anti-racist. UTTER BULLSHIT. Yet AMERICA takes it and moves on.

If 2 snaggle toothed dimbulbs from Southern GA showed up at DON "THE FRUIT" LEMON's front door, it would be TURGID 24/7 NEWS for 2 weeks.
But I'm sure the MFM would be fair and call the KKK KUTE KITTY KLUB.

The WAR has arrived.

[Stephanie, Nene, Not your Normal Grandma]

Thanks, y'all! We are pretty excited to meet her.

[Miss Marple]

Glad I checked back one more time before starting the washer! Congratulations, Stehaie! That is wonderful news!

[rich]

Posted by: derwill | November 09, 2018 at 10:21 AM

worth relinking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgmg2VFX058

Yuri Bezmenov

sensible conclusions.

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

How did they flip the 6th district of ga. There's something fishy there.

[Miss Marple]

Obviously, I forgot to proofread.

Congratulations, Stephanie!

[James D.]

The leaders in the Dem party hate and disdain all of us—even their own voters, and especially the blacks and Jews. They’ve been openly exposing their hatred for years. Why we can’t exploit that us beyond me.

Because the GOPe hates and disdains all of us just as much as the Dems do, and they've been running the GOP ever since President Reagan left office.

[henry]

I am similarly acting to suspend, for a limited period, the entry of certain aliens in order to address the problem of large numbers of aliens traveling through Mexico to enter our country unlawfully or without proper documentation. I am tailoring the suspension to channel these aliens to ports of entry, so that, if they enter the United States, they do so in an orderly and controlled manner instead of unlawfully.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/presidential-proclamation-addressing-mass-migration-southern-border-united-states/

[Miss Marple]

Oh, and one more thing:

“Presidential Proclamation Addressing Mass Migration Through the Southern Border of the United States” https://t.co/9blzn1XGyS

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 9, 2018

Link goes to the proclamation.

[rich]

this is worth linking too

The Blueprint: How the Democrats Won Colorado (and Why Republicans Everywhere Should Care)

https://www.amazon.com/Blueprint-Democrats-Colorado-Republicans-Everywhere-ebook/dp/B003KN3IXA

[derwill]

Yeah, you’re right, James D. Their hatred and disdain is why they got Trump. Enough people in the right places finally woke up. And after Trump, be it in 2020 or 2024, they will make damn sure it never happens again.

I really worry this is going to end in bloodshed. There’s no compromising with people who want you dead or in a re-education camp.

[Old Lurker]

From the other thread, MM said: "Also, all of you bitching about Trump not doing anything don't KNOW that he didn't do anything. You are just assuming it because he didn't announce it."

We have just come through a tough period at JOM with all the rancor between the Half Full and Half Empty factions. It would be a shame for the next two years to continue just like that.

One thing that makes the rancor certain is when one side can accuse the other of bitching based on their having no actual knowledge while implying that the other side is not bitching because they know they don't know what is happening behind the scenes, but they take for granted that it is being handled.

That tone and implication makes one side good for guessing that while they don't know the facts, they wish to assume facts not in evidence...and the other side is bad for assuming things they cannot see with their own eyes means nothing is happening.

Good lord. We just fired the AG because the absence of visible action was in fact because there was no action, and that all those unissued IG reports, all those presumed GJs and all those sealed indictments which some thought meant the the mother of all battles was being waged in secret. Nope.

[GUS]

Old Lurker, one can only determine the truth by having facts. One can make conjecture, wishful thinking or make up pretend games, such as 4-d chess, when the aforementioned facts are not there for anyone to see. To believe 2 years past DJT's election, that some silly mythological game is being played has no basis in discernable facts. Jeff Sessions acted like an imbecile when RECUSING himself. He had ZERO reason whatsoeer TO DO SO.
Now the LEFT expects and the media trumpets that ALL OF TRUMPS A.G. choices must RECUSE.

The words....
How about FUCK YOU, come to mind.

As for those who accused me, you, us of not having FAITH......pffffffffffffffffffffffffftt.

[Threadkiller]

Congratulations, Stephanie!

[Rocco]

Congrats Nene!

Facts in evidence

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/06/jeff-sessions-recusal-unnecessary/

Hate me if you must but I blame Sessions for all of this.

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

So the voter integrity commission was sabotaged the data ordered destroyed this was why, the red states are being stolen because that is the only one a suitable replacement for sessions can be installed, sessions was good on general enforcement principles but the minefield and the possums prevented him from going further

[Old Lurker]

I chuckle when I see WSJ headlining "Stocks Fall as oil continues to decline".

Maybe. But the market spiked on the better than expected pickups in the Senate and absence of a Blue Wave in the House made the market happy.

Maybe fearing that the good news was fleeting and that the new Senate might be like the old Senate but with Mitt Romney starring as John McCain might make investors sad?

[anonamom]

OK, I've done my public service---listened to Scott Adams' latest Periscope. (I did multitask.)

Here's the take home message from that 40 minutes of my life that I'll never get back:

Trump Derangement Syndrome is a three legged stool.

The legs: Dictator. Racist. Crazy.

The House going D completely whacked off the Dictator leg, with his immediate congratulations to Nancy P marking it clearly.

His press conference--87 minutes without a net, answering a huge variety of topics, showed anybody watching that he's not crazy, AND that his staff obviously doesn't find him so either, or they'd never let him do that. Not totally removing that leg, but not much left.

So, that leaves RACIST. And even if people want to deny reality and leave that smear intact in the face of no evidence---

You can't use a three legged stool that has only one and a third legs.

Therefore, the atypical divisiveness among NORMAL people is greatly reduced.

Also, a tip of Adams' hat to Acosta for getting the PR he got with the theater he executed, but from the point of analyzing Acosta's actual behavior, he was unquestionably in the wrong. Not the contact w the intern per se, but by not abiding by the rules of the press conference; not standing down when POTUS---in HIS house--told him his time was up.

[Miss Marple]

Old Lurker,

Your point is taken and I will no longer accuse anyone of bitching.

However, I will remind you that I long ago said I didn't know what was going on and removed myself from the black hat/white hat controversy.

I am the same with this. I don't know what's going on. The President hasn't failed me in the past, and thus I tend to believe there is stuff going on. As a matter of fact, despite Sessions inaction, I also believe stuff has been going on, just not in the Justice Department.

However, rather than insult people here, which I should not have done and for which I apologize, I AM going to go do laundry and stay out of this.

The President is leaving for France shortly and took some questions from the press before departing. I imagine there will be video of this available in a while and I will try to find it and post it. Until then, I am absenting myself so as not to cause dissension or get myself depressed.

[sbw]

The pattern suggests that as soon as I post something that asks for feedback, TM will start a new thread.

Alex and jimmyk provided useful feedback to me about divisions in the country. Any more?

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Projected demand, affects oil price now it was going on re economic activity, good grief are they this ignorant, magic rightball says yes.

[JimNorCal]

Probably already noted, but I'm in a hurry

TM: "It’s not obvious, to me, how Democrats get out of that bind."

Voter fraud comes to mind.

[Marlene]

Wonderful news Stephanie!

[JimNorCal]

--JNC: “Probably aimed at me.”
Nah, I’m pretty sure that was aimed elsewhere.--
Iggy: It was aimed at TK.

Yeah, I was just being funny. Or trying to diffuse tension. Cause I'm not bugged by TK at all anymore. Hope you and yours are far from the fire. We're getting smoke down here in the San Jose area already.

[henry]

Conspiracies everywhere.

WikiLeaks @wikileaks
4d

Spanish newswire EFE quotes Ecuador's Attorney General on a plan to go with UK to binding international arbitration, then to "lose" in order to be "forced" to hand over Julian Assange--in order to avoid being prosecuted for an illegal extradition

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/1059192314961244160

[Porchlight]

When even Porch has flipped her lid on Trump being to blame for something that he probably had covered to the extent he could and will probably not amount to a hill of beans anyway, I think I better join CH and hit the trail.

You're reading it wrong. If even I am saying Trump fucked up, that means he fucked up.

Anything he is doing now, should have been done a week ago or three weeks ago or six months ago. He or his team should have had armies of lawyers ready to help the lawyers on the ground which he should have confirmed were deployed prior to three freaking days after the election (thank you Rick Scott for being so ON IT). The entire GOP party apparatus should have been mobilized - just like the Dems do.

But instead, everyone kicked back after the election and assumed it was taken care of.

Arizona is likely lost. GOP efforts there are too little too late. Does that "not amount to a hill of beans"? How many other races were stolen that we'll never know about? Montana blue counties came in late too. There are a dozen House races still being counted.

[Old Lurker]

MM, bitching is a mild word...we can take it.

Mine was a bigger point: when you and I are both calm, we happily admit that neither of us knows anything for sure. You, being you, like to trust that not knowing for sure might still mean Trump has it all under control. That is your faith. Others like me, being me, are in the "Trust but Verify" camp and we choose to think that no evidence of action is probably evidence of no action. Also just a leap of Faith, for sure.

As a good Episcopalian, I am OK with everybody believing anything at all or nothing at all.

:-)

[henry]

sbw, basic people divided? Hard to tell with all the megaphones held by people with their hair on fire screeching insanity at 11.

[Porchlight]

Let's see whether Dems can "Franken" McSally and Scott.

The answer re: McSally is already YES.

Absent whatever Big Sugar donor got on the horn to yell at Rubio after the FL AG race flipped yesterday, Scott would probably be toast too. Hopefully they stop it.

[Old Lurker]

Henry, I decided that if I were not married, MM would marry me just so she could divorce me.

:-)

[Old Lurker]

Where does the Gillum race stand with all this going on?

[Threadkiller]

Iggy: It was aimed at TK.

It was? I read it as a joke. Made me chuckle. :-)

[Miss Marple]

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
16m16 minutes ago

.@BrianKempGA ran a great race in Georgia – he won. It is time to move on!

[Miss Marple]

Donald J. Trump
‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump
13m13 minutes ago

You mean they are just now finding votes in Florida and Georgia – but the Election was on Tuesday? Let’s blame the Russians and demand an immediate apology from President Putin!

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Well that band hasn't started to play yet, but elias is warming up the instruments.

[Dr Vandalay DDS]

To be fair to porchlight and old lurker, their anger is less likely due to Trump and more likely due to ill fitting dentures.

[Miss Marple]

Old Lurker,

Maybe. At least you wouldn't rob me blind and then declare bankruptcy! LOL!

[henry]

OL, I figure I might as well go out from eating too much popcorn... then the world provides this mess. :)

[Threadkiller]

Scrolling back, I realize that Jim didn't bring the comment to the new thread. Iggy did. :-D

See, it has to be satire on the subject of thin skin.

[Frau Edith Steingehirn]

Welcome Paige! Good news to cheer us today, Nene. We certainly need it.

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Looking back, this what this popular vote carbuncle Klein was spouting, was to cover for the fraud.

[Miss Marple]

Here, everyone, target your anger at this jerk, who is an NRO person:

Jeff B.
‏Verified account @EsotericCD
3m3 minutes ago

Trump has no idea how votes are counted in Arizona and I doubt he could ever in a million years be made to understand why what is going on there has nothing to do with fraud whatsoever. Better to just cry wolf, because LOL nothing matters.

[pagar, a bacon, ham and sausage supporter]

https://clarionproject.org/you-didnt-hear-about-this-mob-attack-in-minnesota/

"The incident has gone virtually unreported in the mainstream media. This shows that a vocal number of troublemakers have been effective in paralyzing honest reporting concerning the deepening of Somali violence in Minnesota."

Instead we get a Muslim who apparently cheated to get into the US elected to Congress. Plus we have elected a Minnesota AG who appears to be 100% Pro Muslim

[Tom R]

We experienced it in 2008, alex, when an ineligible candidate was elected President with the help of hjs opposition party.

TK,

If it's your opinion that Obama was ineligible to be president do you also think Ivanka, Don Jr, Eric and Barron Trump are ineligible to become president?

[henry]

Reuters Politics @ReutersPolitics

BREAKING: Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg released from hospital after treatment for broken ribs suffered in fall - court spokeswoman

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

So the shooter in Melbourne Australia is a wallaby by the name of Hassan shire, his brother was pinched last year.

[Miss Marple]

Old Lurker,

A message from ChTown which I will transcribe exactly, so that I don't goof it up:

"All US dollar priced assets (those that are indexed in particular) are falling as the dollar gets bid in the FXmarket. It's an algo, and has been in place since ~ 2009."

[Old Lurker]

This morning I was bitching to my trainer during my workout...he is a generation younger than me. My point was that my generation of Boomers never had to face any tough realities, so we assume there are no tough realities, and now our children and their children are even more spoiled and protected from the realities of the human condition.

He didn't like that line of thought. So of course I reminded him that my parents survived the Great Depression and WWII and nothing like that has come this way since. He mentioned Viet Nam for my generation and I had to laugh.

DC is considering building a WWI monument (who knew there was not one) and I was listening to the proponents talk about it. In 1916 our population was under 100M, meaning there were under 50M men. Of those, 4+ million were in uniform, and of those 2+ million were sent to battle. Of those several hundred thousand died and twice that number were maimed for life. Then right after the war ended, the Flu Pandemic came along and killed 20% of the world's population.

Growing up in the 50's and later? Ha ha ha ha.

[Eye Doctor .]

Rocco

You are guilty of not sticking your head in the sand.

Oh the humanity!

[Threadkiller]

Get me the naturalization dates of their mom's, Tom, and I will let you know.

They aren't running for POTUS so I won't do the research at this time.. If they were in contention I would have an answer ready.

[Old Lurker]

MM, please tell ChiLurker to stop confusing me with facts.

Shame on him.

[henry]

GOP @GOP
25m

Brenda Snipes is actively breaking the law in Florida. By law, early vote and absentee ballots are required to be counted within 30 min of polls closing. Yet after over 100 hours since polls have closed, Broward County is still counting these ballots. Floridians deserve answers!

[Eye Doctor .]

Boston Creme Pie

What was Special Counsel Mueller appointed to investigate?

[sbw]

OL: my generation of Boomers never had to face any tough realities

... because our parents, for what they thought the best of reasons, having lived through the Depression and WWII, tried to protect their children from the reality of them.

[Frau Edith Steingehirn]

Is Andre Fladell still operating in Broward County?
https://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/blowing-smoke-6324879
IHTP

In the future, hold off all FL ballots until Broward turns in its trove.
IHTP

[Miss Marple]

Old Lurker,

ChiTown wants to know if you want more data. He says he can email you some spreadsheets if you are feeling underinformed.

[henry]

What's the matter with Kansas?

Gov.-elect Laura Kelly said she will have her staff review how far the state can go to avoid enforcing the law. It was designed to provide legal protections to adoption agencies that cite faith-based reasons for refusing to place children in homes that violate their religious beliefs.

https://www.apnews.com/540df14cb4ca4c30967ff161252a948a

[Kevlar Kid]

That "dumb football analogy" made me *whinge*. :D

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

I recall it took six senators to hand the prime minister ship from Abbott to Gilliam,

[Bernardi Dr la paz]

Because she was a creature spawned from the hellmouth defended by wolfram and hart,

[Porchlight]

The Dem in TX-23 still refuses to concede:

https://www.ksat.com/news/elections/will-hurd-urges-gina-ortiz-jones-to-concede-us-rep-district-23-race

[Tom R]

When even Porch has flipped her lid on Trump being to blame for something that he probably had covered to the extent he could and will probably not amount to a hill of beans anyway, I think I better join CH and hit the trail.

IMO the 24/48 hour rule should be in effect on this. I distinctly remember seeing before the midterms a link to the DOJ or DHS website saying that the Feds were going to be deployed to some of the suspect cities where voting fraud was expected to occur. If we want to end Democrat voting fraud corruption (like Broward county is infamous for) you have to allow them to commit the crime first before you can arrest them. If the DOJ/DHS were prepared for mass voting fraud that anyone with an IQ higher than Forrest Gump knew the Democrats would resort to then we should see some arrests soon. If the DOJ/DHS dropped the ball then Trump should take responsibility for their failure (the buck stops with him) and fire the people who dropped the ball.

[henry]

Yahoo News @YahooNews

A coalition of 18 state attorneys general has sent a letter to Acting Attorney General Matthew Whitaker calling on him to recuse himself from the special counsel's Russia probe