Away We Go

I had high hopes for a real eye-opener on taxing the rich, but it hinges in part on whether you think Bill Gates is even more knowledgeable on this topic than Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:

For practical reasons, Bill and Melinda Gates don't want lawmakers to get bogged down in arguments about the top marginal rate, which is currently 37 percent. "If you focus on that, you're missing the picture," Bill said in a recent interview with The Verge.

"In terms of revenue collection, you wouldn't want to just focus on the ordinary income rate, because people who are wealthy have a rounding error of ordinary income," he said. "They have income that just is the value of their stock, which if they don't sell it, it doesn't show up as income at all, or if it shows up, it shows over in the capital gains side. So the ability of hedge fund people, various people — they aren't paying that ordinary income rate."

Instead, he suggested, we should be more progressive with "the estate tax and the tax on capital, the way the FICA and Social Security taxes work. We can be more progressive without really threatening income generation." That idea might find favor with Sen. Elizabeth Warren, who has floated the idea of a wealth tax on households worth more than $50 million.

I still say, above a high threshold impose mark-to-market accounting to end the eternal deferral of unrealized capital gains taxes. But to avoid forced sales to pay the bill (and to create a buffer account against possible future losses) allow payment of the taxes over ten years.

Mark-to-market accounting is already part of the tax code (eg, futures and index options, not to mention the charitable deduction for appreciated assets with a long term gain.) This idea side-steps the Constitutional puzzle of Warren's wealth tax.

Comments

[peter]

Mrs. -peter gave me a bottle of small batch Vermouth made on some winery in Sonoma County; it was based on a Gewurztraminer. I used some with some Calvados I've had in the house to make myself a very exotic dry brandy Manhattan. Pretty strong eye opener.

[MissMarple2]

Momto2,

I love that dog picture! I can just see it!

[Jane]

Exactly jib. You finally got it.

[Jane]

MM,

That was my only point. It's too valuable for all of us.

[MissMarple2]

daddy,

Hope you get a chance to see this:

https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-witches-marks-including-entrance-to-hell-found-in-caves-at-creswell-crags-11637931

[Dave (in MA)]

swiped from Insty

[clarice]

Momto2:You bet. I only get 1-2k words so I have to be selective.

[clarice]

My FB friend Christopher Buckley (not THAT CB) has an interesting conjecture about the failed Amazon deal:Whadday I got for you tonight? How about a lot of facts and conjecture? I am no reporter, but I have pieced this together, some of it from very stale news, tell me how it smells...
Cuomo cut out the city council on the Amazon deal: no say, no credit, no nothing. The NY Senate Democrats got understandably VERY pissed at Cuomo, and bided their time... It seems that, for the deal to get approved, it had to go through a New York State Development Commission of some sort… You know about these things? Few people do. Little commissions that are holdovers from the days of machine politics that allow the following to happen.
The Senate Democrats appointed a guy known to be opposed to the deal to the commission. (A progressive? I guess, sure, why not?) By their rules (and I think there are three commishes), any one of them can queer any deal. Clever.
So how it got dead was this guy came out and said "we are gonna review it all". He didn’t say “I’m gonna kill it”. This was putting the knife in and was very smart. Why?
There were gonna be nonstop hearings and complaints and EVERYTHING would be public and on the table. THAT is why Amazon pulled the plug. (There is a lot more backstory and some of this may be a little whiffy, but there is the rotten story.
I am confident (no proof) that Bezos talked to Cuomo and said “just veto his appointment to the commission”, but even Cuomo isn’t that dumb. Instead, Cuomo went down to Trump a few days before the deal to see what could be done. Nothing. That's what. And THAT is what happened. Amazon had to end the pain or they would have put Bezos and Cuomo under the microscope for this terrible, awful deal.
Payback is a bitch.

[MissMarple2]

Missouri right now....pic.twitter.com/JNmWhyG83K

— EducatëdHillbilly™ (@RobProvince) February 16, 2019

Video of amazing traffic crashes in snow at link. I am afraid that is heading our way. Ugh.

[Pinandpuller]

No, Japan does not have a Lape Curture, you fleeking idiot! It's one of the safest countries in the world.

https://youtu.be/kapDG2MsPXk

[Narciso79]

This character, doesn't he scream backfleinich:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2019/02/15/politician-delivered-amazon-death-blow-may-struggle-to-get-statewide-gig/amp/

[Pinandpuller]

You think the Angry Black Woman AG of NY is going to ride the train to D.C. and kick it with Kamela, Tupac and The Chronic?

[Narciso79]

Correction more constipated, hes Fordham Harvard an aide to congressman manton, a staffer for cuomo.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Ext, if you have to ask if there's a use for a 50 caliber handgun you've already proven you're not man enough to own one. :)

[Narciso79]

Despite his connection? Hez a total prog, wants bail abolition, automatic voter registration.

[Jane]

Clárice, I liked it Berger when it was AOC's fault.

[MissMarple2]

clarice,

Thanks for that information. Sounds reasonable to me.

Now, here is something I picked up on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/IncarnatedET/status/1096599447306301441

(Enlarge and read the screen caps.)

That bad bill about the Border Wall is only until September. Meanwhile, the Emergency grants Trump far more power than I was aware of (if this writer is correct).

Have you heard any rumblings about stuff that would be related to this?

We may be entering very interesting times.

[Jane]

'better" not "Berger"

[Narciso79]

Wasnt that dirty Harry's weapon of choice.

Gianuris might as well be Cortez Greek older brother.

[MissMarple2]

Jane,

Me, too. I think that the deal clarice discussed won't get publicity. I think that a lot of the dems are willing to let AOC take the blame for it because they are sick of her getting all of the attention and driving a foolish agenda.

[Narciso79]

Wait what?

https://mobile.twitter.com/RaferWeigel/status/1096589512568844288

[clarice]

Jane, read Narciso' s 9:47--they know.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Wasnt that dirty Harry's weapon of choice.--

44 Rem mag. 500S7W was only developed about ten years ago.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Neat trick.
The Fed hands out trillions in free money over the last ten years to the richest among us and inflates giant asset bubbles under everything they own.
Now they magnanimously say, we feel we should pay a little back to be fair and all.

[MissMarple2]

Heading to bed.

Good night, everyone!

[Catsmeat]

Catching up:

MM, keep on keeping on by all means!

Took my son to a campout this evening and had no fun at all on I-80 and on all other roads as we had 3-4 inches today. On an icy uphill left turn lane just starting our journey, my son had to get out and push (to no avail) until he was joined by two nice Lincoln guys who did the trick--then he had to run and get in the car once it was properly moving! White knuckle stuff both ways, so I am very glad to be home and for him to be well deposited on the banks of the Platte!

[Narciso79]

So is he going after Starbucks and Microsoft next:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/15/ny-state-senator-michael-gianaris-defends-stopping-amazon-deal.html

[clarice]

Nytol.

[rich]

test ...

[rich]

gotta work on catch up now.

saw the sell out that isn't a sell out on the news ... yikes.

and i'm finding my inner french revolutionary-take all of bill gates money.

[rich]

Posted by: Narciso79 | February 15, 2019 at 10:26 PM

i think they are under the impression that NY believes that amazon would beg to come back. i have another theory ... amazon wasn't in a hurry to build in NY anyway but it helped them with their "race problem".

[lurkersusie]

Pompeo has a problem

Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸
@JackPosobiec
Kerry reportedly also held secret meetings with Brian Hook, controversial Never Trump operative at the State Dept while in Munich

Brian H. Hook is an American lawyer and government official. As of 2017, he serves as Director of Policy Planning and Senior Policy Advisor to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.

[Narciso79]

With this doctor octavius of a city, I wouldn't, then again Bezos was too cute with his hunger games setup, which devolved to the big apple and arlington.

[Narciso79]

I think he was a Tillerson legacy, but also a maverick minion, hes like Jacob marley,

https://mobile.twitter.com/AJGuglielmi/status/1096610157973434373

[Captain Hate]

My younger daughter and her squeeze are working May through September at Denali National Park's most far flung lodge; she'll be growing vegetables in the greenhouse and landscaping and he'll be doing something else (Travis is pretty handy with things). They'll have to wear bear spray at all times.

[Another Bob]

MM, that stuff at the twitter link is bad movie script.

[rich]

wow that would be an adventure.

[rich]

so what was the temperature here ... sell out, politics as prose, a grand master check ...

[Narciso79]

They could go sinister 6, really mysterio as the big villain in far from home?

[Narciso79]

Kobayashi maru, you can tell from the guttural screams most everywhere,

[Gentlejim]

Iggy,
I saw that your hand cannon blammo got delivered.
Almost time for coffee. I work 4 more midnight shifts then I’m going to permanent days. Ugh... Days are evil.

Back later.

[Captain Hate]

rich, I'm taking a wait and see attitude. The Repukes are proving to be more traitorous than even I imagined so Trump is pretty much all alone.

[rich]

since everyone seemed to have something to hate about it, i might have to reconsider the other side ...wanted to be crabby about it, but when the Blonde Scarecrow started bleating ... whoa, maybe i don't want to be on that side.

[rich]

Posted by: Captain Hate | February 15, 2019 at 11:22 PM

the repukes failure theater is getting old ... wonder how many have been bought off.

[rich]

Posted by: Gentlejim | February 15, 2019 at 11:22 PM

ouch ... that is an ugly transition. was getting arm twisted to go to days but that has seemed to have gone away. thankfully.

[Narciso79]

Any one catch the num...
https://twitchy.com/brads-313037/2019/02/11/ca-gov-gavin-newsom-touts-a-poll-opposing-funding-the-wall-gets-struck-by-speeding-train-statistics/?utm_content=

[Captain Hate]

rich, I still go back to Mike Huckabee's comment on Life, Liberty and Levin that Trump, by not owing any of the usual suspects a damn thing because he financed his own campaign, is free to do the wishes of the base. He said since both sides are in debt to the same people, that's why nothing gets done that we want.

I've done an almost complete 180 on Huckabee since DJT's election. Not complete because I never hated him so much as paid attention to the snarky comments by the Rear Admiral's hired help.

[Narciso79]

Hes a fusion candidate, but he tracks more to the right, they put his hand in the pain box, and expect it to burn,

[rich]

lets call the uniparty the coalition of the bought and bribed ... fucking cocaine mitch and all the other gope sellouts.

[Narciso79]

I can drink to that, I'm not that familiar with warhammer references so I stick to dune .

[rich]

saw some of the McCabe boomlets and the coup that isn't a coup ...

[Narciso79]

Yes it felt very groundhog day, but they wish to use the time stone now,

[rich]

was thinking of buying his book actually.

[rich]

don't worry narciso, i'm drinking enough for all of us.

BEER!

[Narciso79]

Should have had time to write fiction; but it's not even at the dick wolf level.

[rich]

my guess is that Manafort was a high level asset of the FBI ... it is the thing all of washington dc is dancing around. the only thing in my 4d chess that makes any sense.

[Narciso79]

Well it's possible he had a lot of foreign contracts from savimbi to belladur, ths last caught him in the proverbial ringer. I think sater more fits that mold.

[rich]

Posted by: Narciso79 | February 15, 2019 at 11:54 PM

the plan would be to vacuum up a bunch of stuff on the '16 election and figure it out. my theory, such as it is, is that their were 2 factions-the executive office of the president and the hillary campaign and they started to work at cross purposes to one another. the question would be why ... i think that zero still thinks he can be our first african dictator and hillary wanted to start wwiii.

i hate them all and when i go to my dark place i'm going to open nukemap and drop a few hundred megatons on wdc ...

[Narciso79]

Some players get the Oz treatment and other get a Jay walking fine. The Ukrainians who put on this spread have itchy trigger fingers.

[rich]

and the two factions goes to my other bugaboo ... the government within a government that zero created with his czars. talk about one of ryan's biggest failures-reining in some of that abuse.

the reason why is that we never did get much clarity on the executive office of the president hack back in '14 or '15 (powerline was about the only source but iirc it was confirmed that it was a major breach).

[rich]

Posted by: Rocco | February 15, 2019 at 07:18 PM

rocco, i saved this comment for further consideration. well done!

[Narciso79]

These oligarchs dont like to shell out big coin without results they gave 60 large to Manafort and probably another 40 to the dem side, Podesta welshed on the deal and didnt end up in the Potomac, Weber is a very quiet honey bee who might have gotten some results Manafort then hired the slimy Friedman and Saager (the ferengi who would sell their first born) to lobby soms officials

[Narciso79]

So lobbyists have to show results for their efforts like the tps reports well who was contacted by Weber and co, what did they do in response.

[rich]

Posted by: Narciso79 | February 16, 2019 at 12:30 AM

i'm gonna have to save them too. guess you've figured it out, at least in a broad outline.

[jim nj]

Just caught up.

Thanks for posting the signing statement.

I think Clarice has the correct back story on Amazon. Amazon wanted a done deal not endless hearings.

Newsom. I don't give a damn what he does as long as the US govt. gets back the billions wasted on the train.

[Narciso79]

I think Friedman was part if the grape vine slime trail against Ibrahim that malathir has repudiated saager worked for Baku like liz mair Armitage and other Dark order types.

[Gentlejim]

I’ll make this WJOM offering for a smoother tomorrow:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rwrazYUwqQI
Collective Soul Gel

[rich]

i've saved that one too for further study. remember it is the kjom hour, i'm drinking beer, and am threads behind.

[rich]

how about some kjom

deep

nin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBFwXoyjU2E

[rich]

and me and gentlejim are starting the kjom v. wjom playoff!

[Gentlejim]

Hahaha, Rich.
More WJOM: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4RQrOHpJKvQ

[jim nj]

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/15/business/payless-closing-stores-bankrupt/index.html

Another retailer going under.

[rich]

strong effort gentlejim, strong effort ...

painkiller

judas priest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM__lPTWThU

(put this on your external speakers!!!)

[rich]

and beer!

Beer!!

BEER!!!

it is delicious.

[Gentlejim]

Rich,
It’s funny that my chief doesn’t like it when I run stuff through the PA. Haha
Let's stick with Rob and the boys: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vMU804-bjQA
No Surrender

I know those last two will get Iggy’s eyes rolling. :)

[jim nj]

https://hotair.com/archives/2019/02/15/portland-police-investigating-texts-reveal-conversations-patriot-prayer-leader/

A Portland Police lieutenant is caught texting with anti-fa and Joey Gibson. Sounds like good police work to me, especially since he's the guy who is supposed to keep them from clashing.

But, no, talking to the evil Joey Gibson makes him a right-wing threat.

[rich]

i could hear where that might be a problem, but fun!

nice selection

how about third day of a seven day binge

mm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdV1Zc_PFdg

[getting the mood set for my dark place]

[jim nj]

Gentlejim,

Didn't see you there. What do you make of the above? Seems copacetic to me.

[daddy]

According to this UK Daily Mail story police have arrested the 2 MAGA supporters who may have assaulted Jussie Smollett: PICTURED - Two Nigerian actor brothers are arrested over Jussie Smollett attack, as it’s revealed they are FRIENDS with the Empire star amid claims the assault was staged to save his career

[rich]

NO! it can't be.

wonder what the media isn't covering when it covers fake hate crimes.

[rich]

>>>and that you all are important to me...all of you.

Posted by: Old Lurker | February 15, 2019 at 07:22 PM<<<

sure we are.

the problem is that you are mostly right.

[Gentlejim]

Jim nj,
Looks like the Lt was doing their job. Someone’s panties always have to be wadded. How dare the Lt develop amiable relationships with “extremists” from both ends of the spectrum. Complain because the Lt was nice. Complain because the Lt was an asshole. No-win situation.

[jim nj]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/02/14/retired-general-train-pay-army-and-marine-infantry-elite-force.html

"A year after the launch of the Defense Department's Close Combat Lethality Task Force (CCLTF), Army and Marine infantry may be moving closer to being transformed into an elite force, much like the 75th Ranger Regiment.

Retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales, a key adviser to the CCLTF, told Military.com that he believes Marine Corps 0311 and Army 11B infantrymen should be recruited, selected, trained and treated as a specialized force."

I like this idea. Take an infantryman to higher standards of proficiency and pay him more. Create an advancement path within infantry so those that are good at it can advance in pay and importance as their skills increase.

We've done really well training up special forces. A well-trained elite just below them would be very useful.

I also like the comparison to submariners in the navy. They were treated well because of their more hazardous duty.

[Gentlejim]

Here’s a couple Junior Brown WJOM entries to keep Iggy from pointing his S&W 500 my direction: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1bHWhbu_mbk

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X76KE7LWocI

[jim nj]

gentlejim,

That was my thought. The lieutenant is looking to acquire intelligence that he can use to defuse a larger confrontation.

Any large city has a "gang" task-force that actively engages in talking to gang-bangers. That doesn't mean they are sympathetic with them, but they do need the intelligence.

You're not likely to develop a snitch, but they will tell you about other gangs if it's in their self interest.

[jim nj]

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-biggest-enemy-threadbare-army-bundeswehr/

An emasculated military in Germany? And they want to build a consolidated EU military?

[Gentlejim]

Jim nj,
You are correct, sir. That makes perfect sense to the ever decreasing numbers of us capable of rational thought.

[Gentlejim]

I take real offense at the dig, intentional or not, Karnitschnig takes at volunteer firefighters in his article about the Bundeswehr. American VFFs are the backbone of the fire service in this country. The vast majority of those I’ve had the pleasure of observing/knowing are professional in every sense except for being paid. They are fantastic people.

[GUS]

Gentlejim, the MEDIA and JUSSIE SMOLLETT are ROCKET SURGEONS. They are having a hard time figuring out this CAPER.

PATHETIC.

[GUS]

This CAPER, that is...

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-jussie-smollett-suspects-released-20190215-story.html

[jim nj]

gentlejim.

I agree with your respect for volunteer fire fighters. I hadn't thought of that as derisive.

I would be delighted to see a VFF company show up at my door if a fire was going on.

Since they are unarmed I wouldn't expect them to save a German border.

OTOH, if America was under attack I can well imagine them here being on the front lines, or in reserve. Lots of clever things you can do with a lot of water at your control.

[jim nj]

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/2019/02/15/pathmark-reopen-brooklyn-new-jersey-next/2879350002/

Interesting that they are trying to re-launch Pathmark. And Toys R Us is coming back as Tru Kids,

[jim nj]

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news/environment/2019/02/15/meadowlands-power-plant-would-tied-new-jerseys-biggest-greenhouse-gas-emitter-murphy-green-new-deal/2870550002/

This is getting some push back in NJ. It would be the largest generating plant in NJ, but all of its' output would go to NYC. You can probably well understand that dynamic.

We need AOC to come to our rescue!

[Gentlejim]

GUS,
That’s a real head scratcher for sure. Pfffffttttt...

;)

[MJW]

Mark-to-market accounting is already part of the tax code (eg, futures and index options, not to mention the charitable deduction for appreciated assets with a long term gain.) This idea side-steps the Constitutional puzzle of Warren's wealth tax.

I'm not so sure the Constitutional puzzle is side stepped. Though it's nearly 100 years old, as far as I can tell, Eisner v. Macomber is still good law. In it, the court says regarding what is and isn't 16th-Amendment "income":

For the present purpose we require only a clear definition of the term "income," as used in common speech, in order to determine its meaning in the Amendment; and, having formed also a correct judgment as to the nature of a stock dividend, we shall find it easy to decide the matter at issue.

After examining dictionaries in common use (Bouv. L.D.; Standard Dict.; Webster's Internat. Dict.; Century Dict.), we find little to add to the succinct definition adopted in two cases arising under the Corporation Tax Act of 1909 (Stratton's Independence v. Howbert, 231 U.S. 399, 415; Doyle v. Mitchell Bros. Co., 247 U.S. 179, 185) — "Income may be defined as the gain derived from capital, from labor, or from both combined," provided it be understood to include profit gained through a sale or conversion of capital assets, to which it was applied in the Doyle Case (pp. 183, 185).

The Government, although basing its argument upon the definition as quoted, placed chief emphasis upon the word "gain," which was extended to include a variety of meanings; while the significance of the next three words was either overlooked or misconceived. "Derived — from — capital;" — "the gain — derived — from — capital," etc. Here we have the essential matter: not a gain accruing to capital, not a growth or increment of value in the investment; but a gain, a profit, something of exchangeable value proceeding from the property, severed from the capital however invested or employed, and coming in, being "derived," that is, received or drawn by the recipient (the taxpayer) for his separate use, benefit and disposal; — that is income derived from property. Nothing else answers the description.

Unless there's some wrinkle I'm not aware of, the supposed exception for the taxing on charitable deductions of appreciated assets seems to me to have nothing to do with to mark-to-market taxes on held assets. Taxing depends on the fair market value of the asset at the point it's transferred to the charity.

The claimed exception for futures contacts is somewhat closer. However the taxing is based on a specific and special aspect of future-contract accounting. Quoting a decision by the 9th Circuit court:

Section 1256 [the tax section dealing with future contracts] is premised on the doctrine of constructive receipt because the taxpayer who trades futures contracts receives profits as matter of right daily. Id. at 157, 1981 U.S.C.C.A.N. at 256. Under this doctrine, "[i]ncome although not actually reduced to a taxpayer's possession is constructively received by him in the taxable year during which it is ... made available so that he may draw upon it at any time...." Treas.Reg. § 1.451-2(a) (as amended in 1979).
. . .
Because of the unique accounting method governing futures contracts, the gains inherent in them are properly treated as constructively received.

The increase in a future contract's value is somewhat equivalent to dividends that are paid daily into the owner's account. They are immediately available for cash withdrawal. The gains (and losses) on future contracts are essentially realized daily.

[Pinandpuller]

What you have to do is spread the rape around

https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/1096634460546781185

[Pinandpuller]

More Hurtful Statistics

[Pinandpuller]

Collective Soul Gel

Posted by: Gentlejim | February 16, 2019 at 12:46 AM
I forgot about that song, thanks. The 90's was a Blur: https://youtu.be/SSbBvKaM6sk

[jim nj]

MJW,

Haven't seen you in awhile. Income wasn't originally taxable. The government funded itself primarily with tariffs and fees.

Once they decided to tax income, dividends were correctly classified as income.

As far as charitable gifts to charity go, you get to claim the current value of the gift including appreciation in value. The charitable group is responsible for the increased value of the gift including any capital gain. They would have to pay the capital gain, but as a non-profit they are exempt from capital gains taxes.

Charities seek out those situations because they can legally launder money.

As for mark-to-market accounts, cash flows out or in on a daily basis. But as TM fails to notice, your gain or loss is noticed when you close your position. In the meantime, the flows of cash are ephemeral.

From what I remember US taxes need to be apportioned. Which to my mind means that you can't target individuals with taxes.

So if a "wealth" tax is ruled legal, it would have to apply to everyone.

Thus I reject TM'S musings.

[Pinandpuller]

Gentlejim

Since you rock hard and police hard you might like this:

Megadeth - Guns, Drugs, & Money + Lyrics HD

https://youtu.be/LNfwOIV_0Zg