Acosta Out; Are There DoJ Files Available?

Acosta has stepped down as SecLab.

NY Mag finds hedge fund managers who don't think Epstein managed a real hedge fund. Their guess: he blackmailed his clients. Well, call it 'blackmail-lite' - investors pay Epstein, say, 2% per year and he puts the money in Treasuries and index funds. Epstein raises $1 billion, pockets $20 million a year, lives the life. If the fees are higher but the clients are paying for regular access to the young ladies, well, more money for Epstein. Of course, that is a lot less like blackmail and a lot more like a disguised fee for service. This theory also works with the idea that Epstein was pals with some wealthy Saudis and was shaking down the sheiks for cash and intelligence (hence Epstein's ownership by US intel), as reportedly claimed by Acosta during his Trump transition interviews).

A waving red flag that libs are worried about just who was being protected is this ludicrously framed article by Dahlia Lithwick at Slate:

How Alex Acosta Got Away With It for So Long

Acosta got away with it? What was in it for him? And why (as Ms. Lithwick eventually acknowledges in the hundredth paragraph) were so many other of the high and mighty also abetting Epstein? Why, for example, did Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance go easy on Epstein? Acosta's reach extended that far? Please.

The real question is why did the system protect Epstein. And on that point, I have yet to see any reporting describing the prosecutor's case files down in the Southern District of Florida. Unless the DoJ is unique in the history of bureaucracies, I expect there is surviving paperwork documenting the charging decision. The Miami Herald, in their exhaustive Epstein investigation, claimed access to other documents but nothing from the SD FL (my emphasis):

Not only would Epstein serve just 13 months in the county jail, but the deal — called a non-prosecution agreement — essentially shut down an ongoing FBI probe into whether there were more victims and other powerful people who took part in Epstein’s sex crimes, according to a Miami Herald examination of thousands of emails, court documents and FBI records.

There is also the odd aspect that the plea agreement bars pursuit of Epstein's co-conspirators. Isn't that a bit of clue that maybe the point was to protect people other than Epstein?

Well. My Frequently Unasked Questions: Would there normally be contemporaneous DoJ paperwork on a typical case? Is there paperwork for the Epstein case or did the dog eat it? If there is paperwork, shouldn't the DoJ Inspector General and Congressional overseers have access to it?

We heard Acosta's rationalizations on Wednesday, but is there contemporaneous support for it? Or some other explanation, such as a note citing a senior DoJ official telling Acosta that the intelligence community has asked them to back away?

Where are the leaks??? Or is this a situation where the usual media suspects have been advised that "I'd tell you but then you'd want to kill yourself"?

 

Comments

[henry]

FOIA away! However I would expect the "active investigation" shields to go up.

[henry]

As for Acosta's replacement?

CNBC
@CNBC

Incoming acting Labor Secretary Patrick Pizzella under scrutiny for work with disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff cnb.cx/32pFVIM

[henry]

When Pizzella worked on Abramoff’s team at Preston Gates Ellis & Rouvelas Meeds, the lobbying firm was pushing to prevent Congress from imposing minimum wage laws on the Northern Mariana Islands.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/12/acosta-replacement-pizzella-faces-scrutiny-for-work-with-jack-abramoff.html?

[Narciso79]

Odd New York magazine wasnt that interested 17 years ago, in the old wiseguy series he would be a whole season.

[henry]

Microbiomes, what can't they do?

from insty:

MICROBIOME NEWS: Vaginal bacteria linked to ovarian cancer. “Having too few ‘friendly’ vaginal bacteria may increase a woman’s chance of ovarian cancer, and swabs can be used to spot this, say researchers.”

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/335786/

[James D.]

Or is this a situation where the usual media suspects have been advised that "I'd tell you but then you'd want to kill yourself"?

The usual media suspects are all friends of Epstein, attended his parties, took his money, and are complicit up to their godless, treasonous, motherfucking eyeballs.

How is this even a question?

[Narciso79]

I mentioned zacchias in the previous thread, because he was an admitted sinner, who repented.

[Narciso79]

House of cards, first season has a Chinese princeling who served a similar role.

[Dave (in MA)]

henry | July 12, 2019 at 01:00 PM, men can get it too, apparently, probably, these days.

[Narciso79]

Underwood used him to aet up the president and his coal baron associate, then arranged to have him shipped back to the mainland.

[Narciso79]

Remember the banamex case, they were a chase subsidiaries that laundered probably tens of billions and they got a relatively swet deal (including no jail time)

[Narciso79]

Fleitz is a very good choice, he was Bolton's wingman at the state arms control seconded from the company.

[henry]

Narciso, is it a confirmed thing on Coats, or just a rumor?

[Narciso79]

Not yet but the usual suspects are agita,

[MissMarple2]

Kevin McCarthyVerified account @GOPLeader

Wow. A new low for Democrats and the House of Representatives. They just voted to CUT our military’s personnel accounts—the very accounts that fund troop pay, benefits, and housing.

[Narciso79]

Ruh roh:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/federal-judge-overseeing-key-lawsuit-relating-to-pedophile-jeffrey-epstein-dies?fbclid=IwAR2RaewxxKHSbukH5ji1CXCdwZX-s39gbD_1L_wt1QOFXqa0p00Bs4U5fu4

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

He was 96, so probably a natural death.

Big question is:

Why ON EARTH was this guy still a practicing judge?

[Narciso79]

You have to drag them from the bench with a crowbar

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

I think we need to redefine the term "lifetime appointment". LOL

[James D.]

Narc @ 1:50

I don’t have any problem at all with that.

[PDinDetroit]

men can get it too, apparently, probably, these days.

Only those beta males with manginas.

[clarice]

For pd in Detroit:https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2019/07/11/Safer-migraine-drug-shown-to-be-effective-in-trials/9931562851262/?sl=4

[johns]

The real question is not how Acosta "got away with it for so long" but how Epstein did. The blackmail story makes internal sense, but it makes these billionaires out to be pretty stupid to get caught in Epstein's net. If they are paying excessive fees to Epstein for managing their money, this is a pretty high price for hookers. I hear they can be had for a lot less. Are billionaires really that dumb?

[Narciso79]

Dahlia is camadiam maureen Dowd.

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

"... manginas ..."

Now I have gross visions of butchered parts in my brain. Thanks!

[Extraneus]

Ducey flip-flopped on Nike. Money talks.

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

"If they are paying excessive fees to Epstein for managing their money, this is a pretty high price for hookers. I hear they can be had for a lot less. Are billionaires really that dumb?"

I suspect this was not just about sex. Because sure, they could pay less just for that.

This was more of a social and control thing:

Rich, powerful men (or people) getting together, socializing, partying with and being members of the "in" crowd ... with an equal amount of gratification they got from the sense of "power" and "control" they exerted over their young victims.

And the sense that they could get away with it.

[Jane]

I think it was all about getting away with it - with a group for whom money doesn't really matter.

Dumb and dumber.

[PDinDetroit]

San Francisco: wealthy opponents of new shelter claim homeless are bad for environment

The effort to block construction of a new shelter comes as city’s homeless population surges to more than 8,000.

The wealthy San Francisco residents who launched a crowdfunding campaign to block construction of a new homeless shelter in their waterfront neighborhood are employing a new tactic: arguing that homeless people are bad for the environment.

In a lawsuit filed against the city of San Francisco and the California State Lands Commission, the residents called for the project to undergo an environmental review before breaking ground.

“This project will have a significant effect on the environment due to these unusual circumstances, including by attracting additional homeless persons, open drug and alcohol use, crime, daily emergency calls, public urination and defecation, and other nuisances,” the lawsuit states.

Opponents of infrastructure and affordable housing projects often call upon the California Environmental Quality Act as a stalling ploy to delay construction. The law requires developers to explore any environmental effects a project might have, and take steps to reduce them.

Attorneys for the residents, paid for by the more than $102,000 raised through the GoFundMe campaign, argued in the lawsuit that the project did not undergo a full environmental review process.

The city has argued that the project – a 200-bed temporary homeless shelter – is exempt was from such reviews.

“I question if this a legitimate concern or a last-ditch attempt to block the shelter by any means necessary,” said Kelley Cutler, the human rights organizer for the Coalition on Homelessness. “Methane emissions are bad for the environment, and this smells like bullshit.”

When it smells like bullshyte, you might want to look at what YOU are shovelling.

[lyle]

And the sense that they could get away with it.

Well, sure. Donate enough money to enough D politicians and...presto! You’re untouchable.

[PDinDetroit]

Thanks clarice!

You are most welcome fdcol!

Knock on wood, I have a set of MIGRAINE PREVENTION MEDS that have stopped most Migraines from occurring. Only had ONE in the past month that resulted in a down day. Other than that, I have been rocking and working near full capacity - first in a very long time!

I have been spending my time working around the house and Federal and State Government IT work. Will be in Austin TX again next week.

[Threadkiller]

Ducey flip-flopped on Nike. Money talks.

Fake news.

Ducey kept his promise. The State will not be giving Nike any incentives.

I just glanced a Patterico's and his robot, Dana, botched this story up badly and the comment section is correcting her quite nicely.

The ban hammer should be appearing soon ove there.

[Threadkiller]

http://patterico.com/2019/07/12/update-arizona-gov-ducey-reverses-decision-welcomes-nike/#comments

[clarice]

You're welcome, pd, and glad to hear you are mending.

[PDinDetroit]

This whole Epstein mess makes me sick. The wanting for justice comes out strongly for these sickos.

The victims, if they have survived, should get a chance for a "pound of flesh" using a cat o` nine tails. Wash liberally with fresh salt water between victims.

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

"Wash liberally with fresh salt water between victims."

Or we could add some salt to liberal tears.

[MissMarple2]

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/Epstein-finances-to-be-kept-secret-ahead-of-bail-14091193.php?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co&utm_campaign=socialflow

I posted some tweets about this from Twitter this morning, but here is confirmation from a paper if you were unsure of those tweets.

[D]

Iggy:
Not with you on this one.
TomR is the instigator.
Previous threads contain the proof.
We are a much happier place without him.
I have responded because you invoked my name.
Anyone who calls JIB a drunk and OL a bully has some perception problems which are not reality based.
You are enabling his behavior but I guess you are ok with that.
I will take Jane’s advice and ignore him ‘TomR ‘.
However if he attacks posters or shows a lack of respect I will continue to call him on it.

[MissMarple2]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/imf-approves-congo-republic-bailout-after-china-debt-deal_2999830.html

[Extraneus]

Thanks TK.

[clarice]

SOB any and all ad homs, pls, instead of turning this place into a brawl for all.

[Threadkiller]

I agree, Clarice. That has been my policy for some time.

[Threadkiller]

You're welcome, Ext.

[MissMarple2]

https://www.justtherealnews.com/2019/07/12/former-njdcpp-employee-charged-with-production-of-child-pornography/

There sure do seem to be a lot of these types of arrests being made.

[Robin, eff 'em all]

fdcol63, it was definitely about getting away with it. From Psychology Today:

Although in ancestral environments the ability to manipulate others may have contributed to success as well as the development of human intelligence, in contemporary society manipulativity does not necessarily correlate with success. Evolutionary game theory posits that being more manipulative is only better in some situations but that it is worse in others, leading to a diversity of social strategies in human life (Wilson, Near, & Miller, 1996). Psychological research studies summarized by Wilson and his colleagues (1996) that relate Machiavellianism to measures of success in employment situations have demonstrated that it is not correlated with sales success (Turnbull, 1976), rank-tenure of college professors (Hollan, 1975), job performance in marketing (Gable & Martin, 1982), stockbrokers in structured environments (Shultz, 1993), job satisfaction (Gable &Topol, 1987), and income in low education situations (Turner & Martinez, 1977). Yet a positive relationship was found between Machiavellianism and income in high education situations (Turner & Martinez, 1977), and in stockbrokers in unstructured environments (Shultz, 1993).

Funny how they didn't study politicians. I think a lot of people got away with pushing the rules a little, like that pitcher I mentioned in the previous thread, so they kept pushing and no one called them out, and everyone had secrets and something in their past that kept them from calling out the worst of the offenders. And as they continued to get away with breaking little rules, they got cocky and started acting on their less savory desires because no one was enforcing the code or the rules.

It's funny in a sad way that it took a guy like Trump to pull down the house of cards, but that house is definitely coming down.

[Tom R]

Iggy @11:34 from the previous thread.

There's an unnecessary problem here that has me close to leaving for good. The reason it persists is because none of the people involved, including you OL, and you TomR, will admit they're part of the problem.

Last year our program got a new program manager. They told everyone if we needed him to solve a problem, make sure we knew what the real problem was first before coming to him. He gave the following real life example:

Problem: The Washington Monument is deteriorating and requires extensive repairs.
Why: A lot of pigeons crap on the monument and their crap acts like a corrosive.
Why: There are a lot of spiders around the Washington Monument and they are a food source for pigeons.
Why: There are a lot of insects around the Washington Monument and they are a food source for spiders.
Why: Because at night lights are turned on around the Washington Monument and the lights attract flying insects.

The root cause of the Washington Monunent's deterioration are the lights displayed at night which attract insects who attract spiders who attract pigeons who after eating the spiders crap on the monument.

I have freely acknowledged I am part of the problem in the past. I am however not the root cause of the problem. The root cause of the problem are OL and his clique of friends who as you have pointed out on numerous occasions engage in personal attacks against people they disagree with. My contribution to the problem is due to low/zero tolerance for that kind of behavior amongst fellow conservatives. I don't like it when Democrats/Progtards/SJWs attempt to stifle conservatives from expressing their opinion so rest assured I am not going to be silent when conservatives attack fellow conservatives.

you attack me personally as well and ascribe false motives and actions to me.

Yet another example of OL attacking anyone who dares to disagree with him. He does the same thing to you he does to me. He tries to paint the both of us as being the ones causing the problems while he and his clique of friends are completely innocent.

You and I agree that MM said absolutely nothing wrong and there was nothing she needed to apologize for. You may not think "bully" was the correct term to use to describe how OL treated MM but I couldn't think of a better term to use. MM is probably the nicest person who posts here and she goes out of her way to prevent drama. OL knew this and took advantage of her good nature to force her to apologize when she didn't do anything wrong. It's a political blog for goodness sakes so if you can't cope with someone disagreeing with your political opinion stick to talking about non-political topics like the keto diet. MM and everyone else who posts here should never be pressured into apologizing for expressing their opinion.

Clarice said:
This blog is and can still be a valuable place to exchange views and information. All this ad hom stuff is annoying and stupid.

I agree fully with the first sentence which is why I still post here. The annoying and stupid ad hominems are the root cause of the problem so hopefully the people who routinely engage in that kind of behavior will stop.

[Robin, eff 'em all]

And I try to stay out of the sniping, but gosh, it does make me wonder why I keep coming here. There are so many good commenters with wonderful things to add to the discussion (I can't tell you how many times I've cut and pasted a recipe generously shared), but the nitpicking is really tiresome. I've noticed that Beasts is over on the Althouse blog commenting, and it made me sad.

PD, I'm so happy to hear that your migraines are under control.

Momto2 - thank you for relinking that Deplorables video. Loved it.

[MissMarple2]

 New York Post Verified account @nypost

Dad of Celtics draft pick Tremont Waters found dead in Connecticut hotel room https://trib.al/bpPMYF6

[Threadkiller]

I guess this thread needed its focus changed just like the last thread where MM asked to be left out of the frenzy.

It would be nice if she could be respected enough to trust her when she said she was satisfied with her interaction with OL.

I certainly respect her and her decision.

[MissMarple2]

TK,

This place welcomed me when I got banned from Ace's site. I have known Captain Hate since those days.

I do NOT want to get into sniping and causing problems. I will make every effort to stop making any comments that fall in that category. I probably shouldn't post when I am tired or when I am in a bad humor because of something in my personal life.

I have even made myself a warning note to put on my computer to remind me.

I wish Beasts and Jack would come back. I miss them.

[D]

MM:
We love having you here and both of those boys will be back before you know it

[D]

TomR:
So you agree to stop with that kind of behavior?

[Tom R]

MM @ 3:19

You are nowhere close to the root cause of the problem and no one should ever try to make you feel that you are.

[Robin, eff 'em all]

MM, I truly rely on the links you add here every day. I'm sorry that your personal life is getting you down, but I certainly never think of you as an instigator in the problems here. I am very deft at scrolling on by as I've had to be given where I live and what my FB feed looks like.

[Tom R]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-07-11/giraldi-did-pedophile-jeffrey-epstein-work-mossad

Question for anyone who has more knowledge of the Israeli government than I do. As we are getting more and more confirmation on, our CIA has a pro-Marxist faction (ex. Brennan types) within it that do not share the same value system as patriotic Americans who support the Constitution. Is it safe to assume that the Mossad has multiple factions within it similar to the CIA? By that I mean the Mossad has leftists who align with the Progressive, one global society, with open borders promoted by people like George Soros as well a "Zionist" pro-Israel faction that aligns with the views of Netanyahu?

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

The Ledge is where non-conforming Trump supporters hang out providing useful feedback to POTUS so MAGA stays the course.

LOL we are all fucked then if Trump is guided by the doom and gloom Eeyores.

Posted by: Tom R | July 03, 2019 at 01:36 PM

Not that I think anyone really cares about what I think, but ....

Personally, I thought this was an example of the kind of snitty and snooty bullying I'd seen directed by Tom R at others. But this time, it was directly aimed at MOI and my other fellow Ledge dwellers. Quite frankly, it pissed me off. Eeyores?

I've tried to remain as neutral as possible around here. I'm just one person, with my own biases and opinions. I accept that, at times, I may be a little too "pessimistic" in my outlook for the country, even though I consider it "realism" and an accurate reflection of the state of things as they exist right now. I hope to be proved wrong in my pessimism.

On the other hand, I think some around here are perhaps TOO "optimistic", irrationally exuberant in their pro-Trump RAH-RAH-RAH 4D cheerleading, wishfully touting that Trump is America's Savior if only he can get another term to continue to whittle away at the vast and entrenched power of the Establishment Deep State and the MSM, (irrationally and unrealistically) believing Trump will be able to miraculously transform in merely 8 years all the institutions and agencies of the Federal Leviathan and our culture that have been corrupted and weaponized by 50 years of the Left's pursuit of Antonio Gramsci's "long march through the institutions and culture".

I think these cheerleaders vastly underestimate the challenges facing the country, vastly underestimate the demographic and cultural changes that have already transformed the American polity, and assume that things will turn out okay simply because ..... "We're Americans, damnit!". Oh, sure, like Germany after WW2, America will probably survive. But I fear that we have many dark days to go through.

According to Tom R, people like me are just sad little "doom and gloom Eeyores" - too stupid to recognize Trump's brilliant master plan and 4D strategy of hiring Mueller to be the Special Counsel to exonerate Trump, and doing everything else he's doing in the WH - who should just go ahead and jump off that Ledge, shut the hell up, and go away.

Maybe so.

But his seeming need to denigrate those of us who dare to disagree with his rosy assessment is part of why I've stopped commenting on JOM as much as I did in the past. Not that anyone has missed my inane comments! LOL Other reasons are that I've been busy at work and with other things, and feeling like I've got nothing really substantial to add to the conversations, not wanting to sap everyone else's optimism too much, etc. etc.

So count me in the "NOT A Friend of Tom R" group, not that it matters a bit.

There. I got it off my chest. Sorry for the rant.

I would like to move past this and just get along with everyone. Despite unpleasantness like this, JOM has been the best place I've found so far to have reasonable and intelligent conversations.

[Threadkiller]

MM, we all will make comments that create controversy, whether that is what we intended or not. I think it is human nature.

I wouldn't want you to change. You have a great sense of humor and I think that is part of how you have had the resolve to make it through a lot tougher controversies in you real life than those drummed up by your digital friends here.

In the end we all care for each other very much. I think you are correct to ask that no one jumps in to speak for you. You are very capable on your own.
IMO, the rebound time from our individual family squabbles will be greatly reduced if 3rd parties didn't dwell on it.

:-)

[Robin, eff 'em all]

https://althouse.blogspot.com/2019/07/if-you-think-about-why-kentuckians.html

Amy McGrath is telling Kentuckians that Mitch McConnell is the reason that Trump's agenda is stalled and she's the person to fix it.

Hahahaha

[MissMarple2]

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/on-july-1-nike-ditched-the-betsy-ross-flag-on-july-4-these-african-immigrants-became-citizens-under-it/amp/?fbclid=IwAR2GnbQalbHtD_7B5s2_7ZvfzyNOBAVWDTqwC-DtB7SB91KxhIkdyYRAk-4&__twitter_impression=true

[Threadkiller]

Not that anyone has missed my inane comments!

I live for your inane comments!

[Old Lurker]

I thought MM and I dealt with whatever it was in two posts and two responses, each pretty short and to the point. As we have dozens of times before.

[Threadkiller]

You did, OL.

[henry]

There is wall finding out of nowhere. ;)

@WSJ

Breaking: The FTC voted to approve a roughly $5 billion settlement with Facebook over a long-running probe into the tech giant's privacy missteps

[MissMarple2]

https://twitter.com/themarketswork/status/1149743017760190464

Jeff Carlson pulls out some of the most valuable items from the President's EO on Citizenship from yesterday.

[Robin, eff 'em all]

I think these cheerleaders vastly underestimate the challenges facing the country, vastly underestimate the demographic and cultural changes that have already transformed the American polity, and assume that things will turn out okay simply because ..... "We're Americans, damnit!". Oh, sure, like Germany after WW2, America will probably survive. But I fear that we have many dark days to go through.

I appreciate your thoughtful posts and look forward to your sense of humor. I am relentlessly optimistic, though I will admit that some days are harder than others. I have a 12 year old (and a 23 year old), and so I see the way the systems are working to brainwash our kids firsthand. But I don't do despair, I'm just not wired that way.

I also live in the land of crazy people who simply will not listen to another point of view. It's maddening. At this point, I do think the country will survive, but I think we will have to destroy our opposition to do so. What that looks like, I'm not sure. One can plan for the worst and hope for the best.

One thing that does make me optimistic is that young people are resilient and they are skeptical. I hear them questioning the orthodoxies they've been raised on frequently. I certainly do my part to throw some doubt their way. They are also muddled by the mixed messages - are we individuals in charge of our education and destiny or are we a collective, completely dependent on and responsible for each other to progress?

We don't know what's going to happen when the ugly reality of the swamp is exposed in a way that it can't be avoided. I no longer believe that they will passively accept what has been happening and apologize to us for calling us deplorables. Yet, I do believe that humans are conditioned to rewrite their personal history that makes them look bad or dumb, so perhaps we will hear about how they always doubted that Obama was scandal free.

Thanks everyone who comes and creates a lively conversation!

[henry]

@brookefoxnews

NEW: @HouseDemocrats lose patience with ‘complete fraud’ @AOC, rally to @SpeakerPelosi ’s side
“Her peers do not take her seriously,” a senior Democratic source said Friday.

https://twitter.com/brookefoxnews/status/1149756803238039553?s=21

[Marlene]

Good afternoon! I've been lurking more because I just don't have many pithy comments. I mentioned the Maine situation this morning,because it is so discouraging to see what is happening. There are so many people up here in the woods who are the salt of the earth. We would trust them with our lives. The taxes in northern Maine are draining to southern Maine and northern Maine is dying a slow death. Many states have this dichotomy.
Of course,when we go to Florida in the winter,it is a huge culture and weather shock,in a good way I guess. :) We have the best of both worlds,so we're blessed. It gives us a good perspective on what is going on in the country.

[Threadkiller]

One thing that does make me optimistic is that young people are resilient and they are skeptical.

"Skeptical" is a Ledgeworthy attribute.

:-)

[Narciso79]

Load up those gatling guns clarice.

Every once in a while we get a success like the latest decision out of the 9th circus today re planned parenthood buf then you have the fecklessness of dread pirate Robert's, the impunity of brennan Clapper and Comey,

[MissMarple2]

https://amgreatness.com/2019/07/11/jilted-again-the-nevertrump-left-alliance-crumbles/

Julie Kelly gives us an update on what is going on with a lot of the NeverTrumpers (and most of it isn't good, for which I am happy, since I consider them weasels).

Given all that we have learned about the corruption in the government, the entertainment world, and the news media, I am convinced that the "Against Trump" issue of National Review was instigated by Obama and Hillary people using bribes and threats. I therefore look at a lot of the remaining NeverTrumpers as suspect characters.

[Narciso79]

Of course they paint it as loss:

https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2019/07/trump-red-chinese.html?spref=fb&fbclid=IwAR3dpec2W7Y_umABJ-LMYXqwDrV8JFgeQ3PTm20_cq1dBTncn9RVLl4iOpM&m=1

[MissMarple2]

Regarding Roberts, I would not be upset to see him removed at least temporarily, such as for back surgery or a lawsuit.

[Tom R]

fdcol @ 3:30,

Thank you for stating your opinion without resorting to a personal attack. I can have a reasonable and intelligent discussion of issues with anyone here who is willing to do that.

Personally, I thought this was an example of the kind of snitty and snooty bullying I'd seen directed by Tom R at others. But this time, it was directly aimed at MOI and my other fellow Ledge dwellers. Quite frankly, it pissed me off. Eeyores?

My comment was in response to something TK wrote so there was no reason for you to think it was directly aimed at you. With that said many posters here at JOM have made it clear that snark and ridicule are widely accepted here at JOM. Over the past few years I have probably had more snark and ridicule directed towards me than anyone else. TK has led that effort. I don't have a problem with that because its a political blog. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Just don't go and have a conniption fit if I resort to snark and ridicule myself. In this specific case I was giving TK a dose of his own medicine.

I think these cheerleaders vastly underestimate the challenges facing the country, vastly underestimate the demographic and cultural changes that have already transformed the American polity, and assume that things will turn out okay simply because ..... "We're Americans, damnit!". Oh, sure, like Germany after WW2, America will probably survive. But I fear that we have many dark days to go through.

I certainly don't believe winning this culture war is going to be easy. It's going to take a long time to defeat the Cultural Marxists on the left and reform the institutions they corrupted. I am however optimistic that is a winnable war. The evidence is clear for everyone to see. Trump has successfully gotten the domestic enemies of the US to expose themselves to the public. The Cultural Marxists won the first culture war because for several decades they were able to deceive Americans about their true nature. Now that Trump has exposed their true nature they can be defeated.

I think based on what I have seen over the past 2+ years Trump and the MAGA team are on the offensive and on a roll. IMO the daily, constant pessimistic, doom and gloom negative attitude displayed by many of the Ledge ultimately does more harm to winning the culture war than helping because it detracts focus away from confronting the real enemy.

I would like to move past this and just get along with everyone.

Me too

[D]

Marlene:
Love when you post. I always learn from you.
Fdcol63:
Bravo on your post! Please post often.
Totally agree.
Robin:
Great words of wisdom.
I agree.
We on the Ledge are not the basket of deplorables TomR says we are.
I am an optimistic realist and hopeful for the future.

[Thomas Collins]

Re the link at henry's 3:52 PM post: I'm definitely on AOC's side. I'm supporting a Dem ticket of AOC as POTUS and Comrade Sanders as Vice POTUS. Age limit? I say it's a living Constitution, and we should interpret it as only requiring an aggregate 70 years of life on this earth for the POTUS and Vice POTUS candidates of a party combined! But my position could evolve to read out the age requirement entirely, so AOC could have Tlaib or Pressley or Omar as her running mate. Any other position is discriminatory against young people who identify as females of color!

Re Marlene's 3:57 PM post: When did pithiness become a requirement of a JOM post?

[D]

We are reminders of what needs to still be done and we would like to discuss strategies to get there.

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

Thanks for your comments, Robin! I share many of your thoughts, actually.

But I can be as "relentlessly optimistic" and hopeful as I can be that my parachute will work. However .... I'd still retain a little pessimism and wear that reserve chute! LOL

Yes, younger folk are resilient and normally rebel at whatever "establishment" exists at the moment. My hope is that they WILL eventually do as you say, and question those orthodoxies and "conventional wisdoms" that they've been indoctrinated with all their lives when they see reality prove them wrong.

However, my greatest fear is that they ... unlike previous generations ... are so much more ignorant of American history and our Founding, and have been SOOO indoctrinated to doubt and even be hostile to the notion that America is an exceptional nation and better than most, that when the foundations of their current belief systems have been yanked from under their feet that they will then fall ... and believe .... and place their trust in .... another form of government that is even worse.

As they say, "believe in nothing, and fall for anything".

We can only rely on those that take the time to educate themselves on our history and the principles of our Founding to find their way back to center-right.

But the Left's purposeful and deliberate efforts to manufacture EMOTIONAL responses that ridicule, trivialize, and even demonize these core values and beliefs just make that process even more difficult.

[Threadkiller]

There you go again, Tom.

You sniped me out of the blue when I suggested that Trump also relys on negative feedback and now you are dragging me into this latest kerfluffle.

What is wrong with you?

[MissMarple2]

Maryrose,

One of the reasons I posted that thread about the variation in amounts spent on aid to illegal aliens vs. Social Security recipients is that I honestly think a great many people do not understand the huge discrepancy.

A lot of people (like my daughter) think we are just being Scrooge-like and selfish. They have zero concept of how much all of this aid costs our government and how unfair it is. I think this needs to be discussed a lot more.

Another thing I would like to know is who expanded the sex education to this totally age-inappropriate curriculum covering all sorts of aberrant sexual behavior. Why is this allowed and who is pushing it?

[Dave (in MA)]

fdcol63 🇺🇸, your inane comments are your best ones!

[Tom R]

TK,

I wasn't the person who copied/pasted an exchange between the two of us from 9 days ago.

The answer to your attempt to try and put me of the defensive is "absolutely nothing".

[henry]

Why is this allowed and who is pushing it?

Epstein ‘s clients in government got coerced into passingblaws requiring it, or wanted it themselves.

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

TK .... Tom R is right ... I copied and pasted that comment from a few days ago.

Sorry for dragging you into my drama!

[Threadkiller]

I didn't copy paste it either, Tom. But you used it as an opportunity to dredge up your version of the past. I assume you did that for some sort of sympathy, but I can't be sure.

You need to move forward. Comment on some new stuff.

[Old Lurker]

MM "They have zero concept of how much all of this aid costs our government and how unfair it is."

You slipped right into it, there, MM. The mistake was ever letting them think of the "government" as a thing unto itself and with its own stash of cash. Those now trite words "of the people, by the people, and for the people" are words they would not recognize, just as they will never grasp that ANY money the government might have, it took from We the People.

[Marlene]

Ha,TC. As someone who was raised in New Hampshire and has lived in Maine for 40+ years,pithiness is all I know. Ayuh.

[Threadkiller]

fdcol63, you were hoping for something mature to come from your comment. Tom relies on his position as a victim so he creates controversy where there is none.

I was bound to get drug into this no matter what. It is his MO.

Ironically, his root cause speech to Ig falls on its face almost immediately when he chose to create the current issue regarding your use of my quote.

He didn't need to bring me up at all to address your concerns. His response, 9 days ago, was to Eeyores (plural), so whether or he notes that I made the MAGA comment, he used it to lash out at a group that includes you.

It is the same everytime. And it is obvious.

[Tom R]

Its from the WAPO so consider the source.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/michael-flynn-deepens-rift-with-prosecutors-on-eve-of-business-partners-trial/2019/07/12/a02badee-a426-11e9-b8c8-75dae2607e60_story.html?utm_term=.1ead6ce8aab2

Can anyone explain why Mueller would recommend probation for Flynn but now that the case is under AG Barr's control DOJ prosecutors are threatening Flynn with jail time?

[Threadkiller]

...so whether or he notes that I made the MAGA comment, or not, he still used it...

[Narciso79]

E pleb nista, gramscis seed pods have done their worst

[Tom R]

his root cause speech to Ig falls on its face almost immediately when he chose to create the current issue regarding your use of my quote.

No it doesn't but I can see why you feel the need to try and spin it that way. You try to portray yourself as innocent and me as the troublemaker just like OL does.

You need to move forward and comment on new stuff. How about that Flynn article I just linked?

[Tonto]

Per Clarice's 2:47 -- do we really want to turn JOM into this?

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3Dt6HgIonzQls%26frags%3Dpl%252Cwn&source=gmail&ust=1563050892566000&usg=AFQjCNEvj3nxRUL1n77veZ5KdbGWvAXAiA">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3Dt6HgIonzQls%26frags%3Dpl%252Cwn&source=gmail&ust=1563050892566000&usg=AFQjCNEvj3nxRUL1n77veZ5KdbGWvAXAiA">https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3Dt6HgIonzQls%26frags%3Dpl%252Cwn&source=gmail&ust=1563050892566000&usg=AFQjCNEvj3nxRUL1n77veZ5KdbGWvAXAiA

I'm with Ig on this one.

[Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma]

Easy solution...

everyone blocks Tom R.

Evening everyone.

I went to Biloxi for the 4th and came back $1700 richer. One slot hit the 8/9 jackpot icons and that was a quick grand. Woot!

I also had my name drawn for the Ford Ranger giveaway. 15 people in the drawing and in the finals, I finished 4th. Close. I did get $500 in free play money, but we had to stay until the drawing at 4:30 and got home after 2 Sunday night/Monday morning.

Eat your heart out, Clarice. My luck is BACK!!!

Work is a bitch as I have a go live on Monday and it is a new app that we are using to install popup training on our website. New software that we just purchased last month and now needs to be rolled out and seat of your pants learning on the new software. Working all weekend it looks like, so I'm hoping for rain. ;)

Kisses!

[Tonto]

If JOM were a movie trailer:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3Dt6HgIonzQls%26frags%3Dpl%252Cwn&source=gmail&ust=1563050892566000&usg=AFQjCNEvj3nxRUL1n77veZ5KdbGWvAXAiA">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3Dt6HgIonzQls%26frags%3Dpl%252Cwn&source=gmail&ust=1563050892566000&usg=AFQjCNEvj3nxRUL1n77veZ5KdbGWvAXAiA">https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v%3Dt6HgIonzQls%26frags%3Dpl%252Cwn&source=gmail&ust=1563050892566000&usg=AFQjCNEvj3nxRUL1n77veZ5KdbGWvAXAiA

[Tom R]

Easy solution...

everyone blocks Tom R.

Fully agree. Everyone who sides with OL and thinks I'm the root cause of the problem should put me on killfile.

[Tonto]

Well, my link cannot be linked, apparently. I urge you to go the youtube Homecoming (the Pinter Play) trailer for some hollow laffs.

[Threadkiller]

You get it wrong again, Tom. I wasn't suggesting that you move forward and comment on things that I link, so your notion that my way forward is to comment on things you link is presumptuous.

I have no concern for what you find fascinating because of your reputation of not being able to have an open discussion. I merely want you to quit dwelling on the past because it causes you grief.

For instance, when you say things like:

I wasn't the person who copied/pasted an exchange between the two of us from 9 days ago.

and you know full well that the exchange was between myself and narciso, I fear you are overloading your self.

Take the pressure off. Quit making things up and you will feel better, I hope.

[Narciso79]

Maybe this one:

https://youtu.be/3vTony-mq0o

[Another Bob]

“his seeming need to denigrate those of us who dare to disagree with his rosy assessment is part of why I've stopped commenting on JOM”

fdcol63, all due respect, but that’s a silly reason to not comment. Just ignore the childishness and insults, block ‘em if you have the tech.

But keep your stuff coming, I enjoy reading it!

[fdcol63 🇺🇸]

" ... IMO the daily, constant pessimistic, doom and gloom negative attitude displayed by many of the Ledge ultimately does more harm to winning the culture war than helping because it detracts focus away from confronting the real enemy. ..."

Tom R, as TK mentioned, since I have pretty much always admitted I'm on The Ledge, I did take your July 3 comment about us "doom and gloom Eeyores" on the Ledge as a personal attack.

"... IMO the daily, constant pessimistic, doom and gloom negative attitude displayed by many of the Ledge ultimately does more harm to winning the culture war than helping because it detracts focus away from confronting the real enemy ..."

Sorry, since I often don't pop in everyday I didn't realize the doom and gloom from my fellow Ledge dwellers was a daily distraction.

You and I probably agree on who the real enemy is. But we probably disagree on the vastness of the enemy, the vastness of the problem, and whether or not Trump alone can win the war within 2 terms.

Rather than distracting, I agree with TK and others that what we're merely trying to do is REMIND you and other Trump cheerleaders that this is ALL indeed part of larger cultural war with the Left, and that Trump's presidency is merely a campaign - a theater - in that larger war, and that Trump BY HIMSELF has no chance in hell of winning this war.

"Trump has successfully gotten the domestic enemies of the US to expose themselves to the public."

I agree with this. But it's not just limited to the Cultural Marxists in America.

Trump, the Brexit Movement, and the other Eastern European countries that have been resisting the EU's open-border policies have all revealed that the larger war is indeed a global conflict between US and the socialist / globalists. The "elites" in all of our countries have failed us, the regular folk, and are promoting and advocating policies and laws that benefit and enrich THEM at our expense. They are deliberately imploding our countries and populations with massive numbers of Muslims and other refugees to change the very nature of our cultures and societies within our borders. One can only wonder why elites would do this to their own people.

It ultimately won't work because, as they say, "all politics are local". These attempts to collect disparate peoples, with different cultures and values, into Europe and America will serve to exacerbate the tribal divisions and strife that already divide us, as we all chafe and resist the efforts of the elites to "homogenize" us all into a global collective.

But, in my darker moments, I think this is precisely their plan ..... to create a global conflict that helps to wipe out a significant portion of the global population.

To cull the human herd into a "manageable" - they say "sustainable" - population size of under 500 million.

So, we must also deal with this larger "enemy" ... which will STILL be there after Trump is gone.

"Thank you for stating your opinion without resorting to a personal attack. I can have a reasonable and intelligent discussion of issues with anyone here who is willing to do that."

I probably did get personal, and if so, I apologize. But I agree ... I can have civil discussions with people who don't like me as long as we're both willing to do that. I, too, hope we can.