Multiple Mass Shooting Open Thread

Resuming one of the great brain-locked debates of this last few decades.

Comments

[Narciso]

He does seems a very screwed pubk from a broken home heterodox in belief in skydragon as witn limita on immigration, of course 8 chan is blamed because reasons

[Narciso]

The trek character from the ripper episode outs his two cents:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnDelaney/status/1158054934765539330

[The Infamous Ignatz]

Man, I am so sorry to hear that Matt.
I will pray for you and your family.

[Narciso]

Prayers for you matt:

[MissMarple3]

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump · 26m26 minutes ago

God bless the people of El Paso, Texas. God bless the people of Dayton, Ohio

[MissMarple3]

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump · 16m16 minutes ago

Today, I authorized the lowering of the flags to half-staff at all Federal Government buildings in honor of the victims of the tragedies in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio....

....The flags at the White House will be lowered today through Thursday, August 8. Melania and I are praying for all those impacted by this unspeakable act of evil!

[clarice]

I think there's only one solution and it's not the ridiculous futile effort to ban guns or the yammering about mental health when it's so hard to detect or force treatment for such people:Harden venues like these--malls, schools, bars, clubs..Have more secure entry ways and armed guards and bouncers. But I suppose there's no political advantage to arguing the practical.

[anonamom]

Here you go--Willie Nelson's kid

Turn Off the News (Build a Garden)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5Sw2vsJkBc

[anonamom]

This is THE SOLUTION:

No more Gun Free (Kill Innocent People) Zones.
And allow concealed carry across the country.

[henry]

Perhaps daily drug testing of blue check marks is in order. They are the assault rifles of free speech.

[sbwaters]

Harden venues like these--malls, schools, bars, clubs.

I don’t buy it, Clarice. The TSA inconveniences us all and still leaves holes wide enough for anyone serious enough to plan a way in.

Gun free zones are an invitation. I worried about my wife as principal — she is retiring this weekend — with generations of emotionally disturb people and a neighborhood with many problems.

Addressing the symptom won’t solve the problem. These people are connected but not social and haven’t been since the Age of Aquarius. We are now three generations beyond that and only the experienced can recall what matters and why, if they ever learned.

They have been taught little worthwhile and schools are worse today than they have ever been. Credentials mean you can’t criticize their deep shallowness.

My goal is to live long enough to plant the seeds in the next generation to rebuild.

[sbwaters]

Matt, you may not realize how strong you are to relate to us what you have. Powerful good you do for you and for us. Thank you.

[clarice]

There are almost 330 million people in the US. A certain propotion of them will be killers. An even smaller proportion will be mass killers. And then there are terrorists planning such events. At large venues, or places which seem to be usual targets--nightclubs, schools, malls--redo the doorways and place security cameras at them, hire armed guards to be there and respond. At schools..lock the doors from the inside when it's not entry or exit times so that entry is restricted without permission. For heavens sake this isn't so impossible.

[clarice]

sbw, nothing is perfect and TSA is ridiculous, but my suggestion would most certainly reduce the number of such events.

[clarice]

Look at the photo of the mass killer in El Paso--walks thru a wide door (was it a revolving one?I don't recall) wearing eye and ear protectors and carrying a large weapon. An armed guard there would have stopped him in his tracks.

[sbwaters]

I’m no fan of “Gun free” zones where only bad guys have guns.

I prefer a responsible person like the off-duty soldier who shepherded the children to safety or a vetted, trained admin or teacher with concealed carry so no sicko knows whether he or she can get two feet inside the door.

Gun free, my *ss. No easy targets, punk.

[clarice]

At the Jewish elder residence where my mother lives, the glass door front entry way is visible immediately to the front desk. You must buzz to get into the building proper from the back, clinic entry. On religious holidays patrol cars with armed cops sit across the street from the entrance.

Synagogues here have armed guards on holidays.
My son's school always had someone in a glass enclosed office at the front desk to see everyone entering.

These are targets/ Adapt and be proactive about it.

Common sense.

[boris]

Kinda scifi but ... Remote operated Taser Drones:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/taser-explores-concept-of-drone-armed-with-stun-gun-for-police-use-1476994514

Low cost on the scene intruder suppression. Large mall could have several capable of autonomously converging and remotely engage this kind of perp.

Take him down or slow him down.

[matt - deplore me if you must]

Reading about the Old West, one finds that people were generally very polite because people were armed and knew how to use them. Every one of these shooters is a coward from all reports. Soft targets and little security.

Instead of life lessons, today the schools form snowflakes and the rest get left behind. Strong families beget strong children and that lesson has been lost. So if the family is dysfunctional and the schools are dysfunctional and the media pump out ever more bizarre and violent fare, what else would you expect?

We are trying to go upstream and get resilience building into our schools here. We are all faced with tough times. Life is unfair. But it is how one handles those adverse times that defines us.

I find the mental health and addiction treatment communities heavily populated with do-gooders and people in recovery. But it also takes those who look at life and its cold hard facts to understand what real recovery means.

The guy who runs our local Catholic Worker house is one of those. No BS, a lot of compassion, but strong rules and strong boundaries.

The Jaoanese impose a psychiatric evaluation on those applying for gun permits. maybe that is one answer. I don't know. But I hate to see our schools look like fortresses. That is just wrong.

It's wrong for some psychopath to prey on the vulnerablewhether it is Epstein or Weinstein or a school shooter.There is an evil pathology that walks the world today.

It is different from statism. It is chaos personified. Random acts of madness.

But evil is always there waiting. And to paraphrase Reagan, it is only a generation away.

[MissMarple3]

My bank is near the university and also near an area that is iffy. They have a lock on their door and you have to buzz and a teller hits the electric lock to let you in.

While this would be practical for schools, retail places like Wal-Mart couldn't handle it, so security guards at all entrances would probably be the best solution.

I also am concerned about the theory that I posted on the last thread, that these shooters aren't politically or racially motivated, but are simply nihilists who are shooting people so that they can watch everyone on Twitter and Facebook speculate about their motivation, in order to mock them.

Those are people who have no morals or scruples of any sort. What are we to do about people like that?

[PDinDetroit]

matt, sorry to hear what you are going through. May God keep you in the palm of His Hands. I pray you find peace that surpasses all human understanding.

Addiction is a disease that tells you that you are not sick when you are truly broken to the core. Too many have I seen that get a little better and think "they are ok again" and out the door they go "on a road trip". So sad to see happen. Thank God it has not been me.

These shootings have me sick to my soul.

[MissMarple3]

https://www.wthr.com/article/1-year-old-daughter-wife-congos-goma-victim-have-ebola-1

This outbreak has killed 1800 people so far, 1/3 of them children.

[Jane]

SBW,

Tell your wife: "Congrats">

Matt I posted on the last thread - you have been such a wonderful advocate for addiction. I hope you keep it up. I'm so sorry for what you are going thru.

Peter, is your son at BC?

[James D.]

Strong families beget strong children and that lesson has been lost.

That lesson has been purposely erased and undone for the last 50 years.

We have seen the most basic building blocks of a healthy, stable society and citizenry attacked and undermined: the nuclear family, the church, civic associations, a shared culture, a common history, a common language, a basic level of pride in our civilization and its accomplishments.

All attacked, all weakened, purposely, to create exactly what we have now. And that’s where these shooters emerge from.

Yes, as Clarice said above, in a nation of 330 million, there will be some people who are killers - but I’d modify that to say potential killers. Except in past times, with a healthier society, most of them would never progress to the point where they commit the acts we are seeing now. They would be noticed, and redirected, long before they got to that stage.

[MissMarple3]

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/456113-trump-makes-surprise-wedding-appearance-at-his-new-jersey-golf

Of course, The Hill seems to think he should have known immediately about the shootings.

[PDinDetroit]

A pistol is good for fighting my way to my rifle. Against a rifle like an AR-15 or AK-47, a pistol is a poor match up but better than nothing. I carry a pistol so I can go home safe each day to Mrs. PDinD. I could say that I would want to stop an active shooter situation, but until one is in that situation you just can't know. Mrs. PDinD says I would, but who knows.

Like I said before, the shootings in El Paso and Dayton make me sick to my soul.

[Momto2]

matt - I am so very sorry to read of what you are going through. Prayers for you to experience comfort and peace amidst this storm.

[MissMarple3]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mcconnell-suffers-fractured-shoulder-in-fall-at-kentucky-home

[sbwaters]

The neighbor did it?

[MissMarple3]

Who would have thought any of these NERDS would even be able to pick up a gun, let alone know how to use it. A good punch to their giant noses might have set them straight before they did all this. 🤮🤮🤮 pic.twitter.com/5dIqI1gPNJ

— 💚🔥 EMERALD FURY 🔥💚 (@emeraldfury) August 4, 2019

Go look at the pictures at the link.

[boris]

They do look like the kind of nerds that would lack any natural defense against the culture rot James describes above:

We have seen the most basic building blocks of a healthy, stable society and citizenry attacked and undermined: the nuclear family, the church, civic associations, a shared culture, a common history, a common language, a basic level of pride in our civilization and its accomplishments.

All attacked, all weakened, purposely, to create exactly what we have now.

[sbwaters]

Clarice, I concur wholeheartedly with your defensive perimeters. Wendy’s school door was locked and you had to be buzzed in.

[Pinandpuller]

AR-15 Story Hour

Desmond’s AK Is Amazing

[Captain Hate]

Fake news from the WSJ:

Back-to-back mass shootings within 24 hours in Texas and Ohio that killed at least 29 people shook the nation and left authorities searching for how to confront the challenges posed by mass violence and domestic terrorism, especially attacks driven by white-nationalist ideologies.

Fuck off, Rupert.

[Another Bob]

Seeing the pictures of the three shooters ought to disabuse everybody from any notions that claimed political motivations should be taken seriously.

[Rocco]

Matt, peter and rse, prayers for your loved ones.

Bela, forgive me.

Albano told Howie Carr that as mayor he visited his old working pals at the parole board. Then he describes several letters to them from VIP's asking them to deny clemency for these four innocent men. Albano may have been confused and thought this letter that Greco's lawyer produced, was also signed by Mueller when in fact, it Mentions being referred to by Muellers office. In any event, Greco's lawyer, John Cavicchi found this letter from Mueller's office and signed by an FBI agent who incidentally knew that Greco was in jail in Florida at the time of the murder.

Commonwealth of Massachusetts Advisory Board of Pardons Attn: Nicole K. Cheries 27-43 Wormwood Street, Suite 300 Boston, MA 02210-1606 RE: Louis Greco & Enrico Tameleo MASSACHUSEI IS ADVISORY BOARD OF FARDONS Dear Ms. Cheries: Reference is made to your letter addressed to Director Robert S. Mueller, Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Was`F1Mg1on,-V-.7C'., dated April 4, 2002, a copy of which was sent to this office. FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C., has directed this office to respond to your letter of April 4, 2002, which requests the official version of those incidents which culminated in the petitioners' arrests.

But in an effort to stonewall the Massachusetts parole board, Mueller insisted to them that the bureau’s own memos did not mean that the four were innocent.

https://thenationalsentinel.com/2018/06/07/the-real-mueller-he-let-four-innocent-men-rot-and-die-in-prison-to-protect-a-mafia-source/

Give it up please!

[Pinandpuller]

I have had to buzz in to many buildings in an around town or deal with guards or concierges. There is now a fashion in certain communities to shame White people, White women in particular for making strange men verify that they live in a building. I don’t think I need to spell it out for you: https://youtu.be/G-m-Yzepyj0

[henry]

So predictable.

@marketwatch

Democratic candidates cite Trump’s rhetoric for stoking hate that led to mass shootings

[clarice]

The 3 guys look so much alike.

[MissMarple3]

The Guardian has an article up that says that a guy in Cincinnati shouted that illegals crossing the border should be shot and Trump laughed.

I have watched that rally 3 times and never heard any such thing. It would be very easy to dub in something just prior to Trump laughing and make it appear that he was encouraging such rhetoric.

I am sick of the media. Some of them should be called to account.

[MissMarple3]

clarice,

That was why I posted it. It's rather spooky, isn't it?

[Pinandpuller]

State Law’s have been becoming more free for gun carrying. Constitutional Carry and Shall Issue. I think ID passed a law saying they will ignore Federal gun control. It could go the way of slavery but they need our guns to go away to finish the Electronic Gulag.

[MissMarple3]

Knowing that Gary Larson drew this in the mid-80’s only confirms he was the greatest prophet of our time. pic.twitter.com/R4Hn50QXph

— Not Not s/\/\ /\ tt (@mdrache) August 4, 2019

Far Side cartoon at the link.

[GUS]

As many of you now my brother was SWAT at Columbine. He got sued.

[henry]

I don’t know what to make of it.

@thechiIIum

Betts, the Dayton, Ohio mass shooter, was a self-described “leftist,” who wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat @SenWarren @ewarren , praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait..” #VoteBlue2020

https://twitter.com/thechiiium/status/1158138928848932865?s=21

[MissMarple3]

"We're talking to a lot of people and a lot of things are in the works," President Trump says when asked how he will handle the gun problem in the wake of mass shootings.

"But this is also a mental illness problem," he adds https://t.co/MG5KCPXRmn pic.twitter.com/IiGkXuDpX6

— ABC News Politics (@ABCPolitics) August 4, 2019

Video at the link.

[Pinandpuller]

Did the parents ever get sued? They never poked around under the SDRI’s. eye makeup and trench coats.

[Pinandpuller]

I think even the Communist Manifesto may have had more authors than the Septuagint and killed a lot more people, quicker anyway.

[Pinandpuller]

Did he get Harried or Randed?

https://breaking911.com/breaking-senate-majority-leader-mitch-mcconnell-after-being-injured-at-his-home-in-kentucky/

[clarice]

heavy says the same thing:https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/connor-betts-twitter-politics-social-media/

[MissMarple3]

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-politics-beto-orourke/

Beto O'Rourke's secret membership in America's oldest hacking group

[henry]

Older article.

As my co-workers and I kept looking at the data, it seemed less and less clear that one broad gun-control restriction could make a big difference.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html

[Pinandpuller]

Dayton shooter killed his own sister. Supposedly he was @iamthespookster on Twitter, the page is still up. Subbed to ANTIFA accounts, etc.

[Michael (fpa P4F) Stop the WitchHunt-Stop the Coup]

Matt - I am so sorry to hear of your troubles. May God grant you the strength to deal with all that you're facing.

[Pinandpuller]

Soul Sorbet: https://twitter.com/theworldoffunny/status/1158055515282448390?s=21

[Pinandpuller]

Isn’t this guy a “Submission” Expert?

@KellyAnnPolls

We need to come together, America.

Finger-pointing, name-calling & screaming with your keeyboards is easy, yet...

It solves not a single problem, saves not a single life.

Working as one to understand depraved evil & to eradicate hate is everyone’s duty. Unity.

@resaaslan

You are “the depraved evil” we need to eradicate.

[Narciso]

Aslan I have particular loathing for, as his book zealot, paints jesus as one of the sicari the Jewish nationalists terrorists of the 1st century ad also his CNN series was disrespectful to every religion except one .

[Jane]

Rocco,

There are a lot of reasons why I love you. Your last post is one of them.

[Captain Hate]

That Blotto article's from March.

[Narciso]

Very succinct Rocco, I tried to find in books like dinallos, whether any of local officials were going after any of bulger's men in the 80s,

[Narciso]

My late grandfather who was an iconoclast in certain respects, described the process that rse has outlined back in the 80s, he had a little perspective on what he had seen in post Franco Spain where he sojourned.

[henry]

Frustration neurons. Do trolls lack them?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2019/07/31/science-just-found-frustration-neurons-in-the-brain-and-the-discovery-could-help-explain-why-we-give-up/

[Pinandpuller]

Aslan and Ben Shapiru are on the same page: https://youtu.be/Q2D_iyY4DGc

[Narciso]

Joe Rogan reminds me why he was in the repair shack in news radio, good grief have you not read Isiah or Daniel or any of the other prophets

In today's sermon was jesus va the sadduccees they were the top men of the age, said they only cared about what was in the pentateurch, except ignored exodus and the burning bush.

[Another Bob]

Ig, I give the author of that WaPo piece credit for doing the seventh-grade thinking required to conclude that most gun control laws are pointless. She still had a way to go.

Can someone riddle me why a can makes a gun “deadlier”?

[Narciso]

In his previous challenge by the pharisees, jesus pointed endorsed paying the demaryius, hence give ceasar what he is do.

[Tonto]

Dear Matt: In my prayers.

[Narciso]

Denarius, due, would an isuirectionist do this, no sirree. Josephus had particular animus toward the sadduccees.

[Pinandpuller]

I can understand Shapiru not believing in the Divinity of Jesus. That’s his problem ultimately. That particular clip cuts off before he says he accepts Maimonides’ explanation for the parting of the Red Sea, so in my mind he doesn’t even believe in the divinity of OT Jehovah.

[Pinandpuller]

I haven’t posted a picture of his sister yet, she has large tracts of land.

[Narciso]

That's understandable up to a point, but this sophistication

[Narciso]

So called sophistication, not acknowledging what the prophets said.

[peter]

Matt in my prayers as well.

[GUS]

A-Bob, the WAPO piece is coordinated propaganda.

It could not be more obvious.

Keep fucking the chicken, and it might just get pregnant. It's beyond sickening.

[Pinandpuller]

Man, I didn’t catch this the first time around. Ben says he doesn’t like naturalistic explanations viz the dietary law on pork but in the same interview he cites a strong wind pushing back the Red Sea. He might even be one of those “Reed Sea” people for all I know.

[Pinandpuller]

https://youtu.be/keuNlk8DdQE

[GUS]

So the FUKTARD FULL COMMIES want Congress to return??? To confiscate our guns and 2nd amendment? Or are they going to propose a budget??

Fucking ghouls. Trying to blame sick libtard murderers on white supremecists???

[clarice]

ACTUALLY, I AGREE WITH MAIMONIDES ON THE PARTING OF THE RED SEA..It was a natural phenomenon which came ata fortuitous time for the Israelites..
Ditto the Plagues of egypt which I think were an ecological avalanche of events.
If you believe God ordered the universe you can accept that natural phenomenon are his doing and he doesn't have to perform miracles of special significance to you.Of course, it doesn't make for great drama for Cecil B DeMille.

[GUS]

WHITE SUPREMECISTS EVERYWHERE. It's the new RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA!!!!!!!!!!

[GUS]

Clarice these biblical tomes can be attributed to GLOBAL WARMING.

[Narciso]

Well the miracles are a manifestation of Gods power, however you want to work it, but missing jesus role so spectacularly is a problem.

[henry]

Which money laundering network did they get caught in?

@WSJ

HSBC says chief executive John Flint is leaving. The surprise announcement comes 18 months after he was elevated to the CEO role.

[Narciso]

That's an intriguing question, Henry, all of them?

[jimmyk]

On securing soft targets: seems to me there are too many, it’s not realistic to have that kind of security. Around 40 people were shot in El Paso. Any restaurant, movie theater, bus, subway car, you name it, would have to have armed security. I think we just need more armed citizens, so any nut who is thinking about shooting up a place will know that there’s a good chance someone there can take him down.

[Narciso]

They do have open carry in Texas, right even in el Paso, of course the one guy that tried to help the security stopped

[clarice]

I don't deny armed citizenry is a good idea for smaller venues. But for places that are certain targets, harden them. I know in Israel teachers are armed esp on field trips. But IIRC there are armed guards at major venues. Certainly high schools with 1k or more students could manage this.

[Pinandpuller]

Does it surprise anyone anymore when a conservative turns out to be a cynical fund raising operator?

[Captain Hate]

jimmyk's right; you want complete safety and not be packing? Welcome to the Police State.

[GUS]

Giving up your gun, in the face of mass murderers does not seem prudent.

[clarice]

I didn't say no packing..I did say an extra measure of protection is warranted at venues which seem to be targets.

[anonamom]

My take on the Miracle of the Loaves and Fishes---that wasn't Jesus making magic. All the women there brought food, as women always do, and the guys all thought it was a frickin' miracle that food appeared when they were hungry, as guys always do.

[Narciso]

I would prefer more adhoc arrangements, instead of like airship one, where they have 10,000 of cameras yet it seems knifing and acid attacks occur on a regular basis.

[Captain Hate]

So have Christopher Wray's gumshoes been dispatched to El Paso after the bang up job they did in Vegas?

[Narciso]

Heh, I'll go with that, HSBC is like the mob bank the joker tries to rob at the beginning of the dark knoghr

[GUS]

The Wedding at Cana wasn't Jesus either.
If it was Jesus, there would have been beer.

[Narciso]

Knight, autocucumbwr is annoying.

[Narciso]

So it wasnt an ak 47 after all?

[MissMarple3]

President Trump speaking publicly for the first time after this weekend's 2 mass shootings says, "This has been going on for years, for years and years in our country, and we have to get it stopped." - @MSNBC pic.twitter.com/C0kf48fpIW

— NBC News (@NBCNews) August 5, 2019

Video at the link. Statement tomorrow around 10 AM.

[clarice]

Anonamom, you heretic.

[Narciso]

That old Robert ludlum tele from 1987, set in Hong Kong referenced koo loon ams Tsim sha but not that train station, was it active then or maybe it easnt central to the story.