Sunday Chit-Chat, or, I Love A Locked Room Mystery

My keen nose for news is right on the pulse of the nation and I have an idea that the Jeffrey Epstein "suicide" is on people's minds.

The left has adopted Epstein as their "Get Trump" replacement for Russian collusion and the right has loathed the Clintons for decades, so there is plenty of energy for a long, long look. I just wonder who has the credibility to placate both sides with whatever story the establishment cobbles together. This could be (probably will be!) the JFK/Warren Commission of our generation.

BONUS ERRATA: I want to save these links on mass shootings:

Vox on the different databases;

Mass Shootings aren't becoming more common;

And a Dem panel yesterday on gun control. That should be interesting, by which I mean terrifying in a detached from reality way.

This screams for more background:

And before she spoke at the forum, Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts unveiled a series of proposals to address gun violence, with an ambitious goal for her presidency: reducing gun deaths by 80 percent.

Normally the progressives and the Times include suicides in "gun deaths" to inflate the figures. Suicides are about 65% of total gun deaths. Short of confiscation, I can't imagine how Warren cuts suicides by 80%, so... my guess is Warren us talking about homicides for purposes of headlining a goal we will describe as "ambitious".

I have not one but two outside the box ideas on the current gun debate. First, liberals will turn against Red Flag laws when creative inner city DAs and police chiefs start using them on urban drug gangs.

Second, one day, maybe soon, libs will realize that the headline grabbing "mass shooting" deaths average about 100 per year. They make news because the randomness threatens the pleasant, middle-class folks who moved to a nice suburb like Newtown or Parkland to get away from urban crime (hear the dog whistle?!?). Woke Dems will demand a change in the focus without somehow implicating urban drug gangs, and good luck to them.

A the Unifying Thread: Urban gun violence and Central American refugees are linked by our War on Drugs. What's the exit strategy?

Comments

[boris]

Good morning.

[Strawman Cometh]

First, liberals will turn against Red Flag laws when creative inner-city DAs and police chiefs start using them on urban drug gangs.
When? "Where", is also a good question. Although there are creative DAs, not in the right direction.

[anonamom]

I am way too lazy to look this up, but I am thinking that if Warren stopped the weekend murders in Baltimore and Chicago, she's be a long way towards that 80% reduction she's promising.

[hoyden]

Choice quote from Chicago Boyz post...

The circumstances of Mr Epstein’s death are such that I’ve completely lost any faith in the concept of “Justice” that in any way involves the institutional FBI or Department of Justice.

I hate saying that because it leaves us here:

“Those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.”

Jeffery Epstein’s Death in Federal Custody the Suicide of Federal Government Credibility

[anonamom]

For completeness's sake:

NOI Research Group
@NOIResearch
· 19h
Jeffrey Epstein’s in Custody Death: Was it a Contract killing by Talmudic authorities?

Epstein's malfeasance called into play an option in the Babylonian Talmud—a murder ordered by Jewish authorities against a Jew that has betrayed Jewish interests.

https://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2019/08/epsteins-death-contract-killing-ordered.html

[hoyden]

Reposted link to Deplorable Don.

Trump just beat Democrats on guns

[Narciso]

Morning all, when examining a crime you need to see two factors motive and opportunity. Well look into means later. Who has the former to do the deed, did they gave the latter

I referenced an old law and order episode with the ira and Lebanese traffickers

[James D.]

I just wonder who has the credibility to placate both sides with whatever story the establishment cobbles together.

No one, because the establishment has spent several decades happily shredding its credibility and laughing in our faces about it.

[Narciso]

And all the agencies that had been asleep through this global enterprise of criminalities related by the post.

[henry]

Perhaps the parable of Flatland can be reset to 4 dimensions. Trump does have a time machine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

[clarice]

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/08/so_who_are_the_democrats_faves_who_might_be_breathing_a_sigh_of_relief_at_epsteins_demise.html

[clarice]

Good grief, anonamom. You and pin must meet up at der Sturmer confabs.

[Narciso]

That's three scoops of crazy, right there.

[clarice]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/significant-questions-raised-following-epsteins-suicide-multiple-investigations-opened_3037265.html

[jimmyk]

I think a-mom’s 9:00am was squarely tongue-in-cheek.

[Old Lurker]

To James' point in chief:

Back in the day, there was always one individual somewhere that both sides of anything could agree would be capable of performing and reporting about an in depth investigation of whatever.

Can anyone name a single person who commands such respect and trust today?

I cannot.

[anonamom]

That's Twitter for you!
Right there at the top of my feed. Probably from the Russian bots.

[clarice]

Harry Lewis
1 hr ·
Prior to Epstein's death, there was an online report that he was meeting with his legal team for ten hours a day, day after day, at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, which is the new federal jail in Manhattan. The meetings were held in a conference room specifically designed for the purpose of attorney-client conferences, and had Internet access. As an inmate, Epstein was not permitted Internet access, but no one monitored the confidential attorney-client meetings held for hours each day in the conference room, because of "attorney-client privilege". The suspicion was that Epstein was having these lengthy meetings with his legal team so he could use the Internet in the conference room to circumvent the jail's rules, and communicate with his contacts. The article insinuated that Epstein was getting special privileges in the federal lock-up through this manipulation of the system.
Will the FBI investigation of Epstein's death seek to abrogate attorney-client privilege (there is a crime-fraud exception to the privilege recognized by the courts) to retrieve and read all communications sent to and from that conference room while it was in use by Epstein and his lawyers?

[anonamom]

indeed, jimmy k.

[Narciso]

Did you not see the national of Islam tag on the tweet,

[anonamom]

yes indeed, jimmy k

[clarice]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/epsteins-apparent-suicide-renews-questions-about-his-prosecution/?fbclid=IwAR2HYKXsWlteTNzFK-w81EdBr806lLSdYwYVyR6mA6GCH8BaTNq4QGdRBkg

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--One thing though Iggy, the estate will probably settle with the complainants--Lisa Bloom, Allred's daughter is representing them...--

Now here is where someone like the Kochs could actually do some good = "We'll give you twice what his estate will if you sing like a canary".
Serious question;
Why can't the DOJ do that in the public interest of uncovering crimes? Innumerable civil suits are settled with gag clauses to cover up crimes. Obviously they'd have to uncover more evidence than the testimony they bought, but still...

[clarice]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/01/15/glenn-reynolds-class-warfare-elites-explains-world-conflicts-trump-column/2569252002/

[Momto2]

Good morning, JOM!

Lance Armstrong stays in the ever-growing column of famous athletes who are disgusting people. I enjoyed reading the Twitter responses he's receiving.

I have no clue what happened to Epstein. BUT - I'm adding it to the ever-growing column of things the crazies will find some way to blame on President Trump.

Finally - some good news! My son proposed yesterday and she said yes! They have dated for 3 years and both have good stable jobs in Atlanta. I couldn't ask for a sweeter new daughter.

Off to get my 2nd cup of (black-Keto) coffee and Clarice's Pieces.

[boris]

Good news indeed Momto2

[henry]

@fox32news

UPDATE: Sources tell Fox 32 News that Trump is going to indeed commute ex-Gov. Rod Blagojevich's sentence, and that he could be released within days bit.ly/2TnTSDe

https://twitter.com/fox32news/status/1160369877464387585?s=21

[henry]

Congrats momto2

[anonamom]

Congratulations on your growing family, Momto2!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Fat, frat-boy Frum;
The Shame and Disgrace Will Linger.
On Saturday, President Trump spread a conspiracy theory accusing the Clintons of murdering Jeffrey Epstein.

It would never occur to this oleaginous, ruling-class remora how ironic it is that he defends the honor of an ex president who actually raped at least one woman and his wife who together are as corrupt a pair of beetles as has ever eaten its way into the body politic by getting the vapors over Trump retweeting some guy who said what 80% of Republicans and Independents and probably about 90% of Dems are thinking.

[Melinda]

Clarice @9:40,

“No one monitored...”

Ok, then if not one, hows about two or three? If FISA can be abused using the two hop rule, does it not become a two way street when you know the road now not so less taken? Seems that if a Vast Left Wing Conspiracy existed, you’d use every legal trap available to ensnare it. Epstein being about the biggest bait since Helen of Troy.

I have no proof whatsoever, but it sure would be a waste to let that opportunity slide right past.

[Melinda]

Congrats, Momto2!

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I consider it unlikely Epstein killed himself.
Narcissist/sociopaths very seldom do. It shows the world the one thing they can never allow it to see; they're weak and it won.

They're the guys who go to The Chair screaming their innocence after the cops find their last five girlfriends heads in their bowling ball bags.

[Jane]

Congrats Mom! Don't forget to add butter and MCT oil to that coffee (plus heavy cream and cinnamon - if you want a really good day!)

[James D.]

I do not have strong enough words to say what I think of Frum, or to expresss how much I hate him.

I hope he dies in the most painful and degrading manner imaginable, and then I hope he burns in hell for all eternity. And I would consider that a mild punishment for him.

[James D.]

I did click on the vile Frum link, and the first recommendation article after it talks about “baseless speculation” over Epstein’s death.

I wonder how many writers and editors and executives st The Atlantic attended Epstein’s parties or took his money or raped the same teenagers he did?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

From that Powerline link;

Speaking of “stabbing motherfuckers in the heart,” why are the “progressives” who moiled outside Senator Mitch McConnell’s house the other night not cooling their heels in a federal lock-up for threatening to assassinate a public official? That’s the usual procedure. How difficult would it be to locate them? Nobody has even asked — a peculiar development.

OTOH, from The Hill;
Ohio man charged after saying Ocasio-Cortez 'should be shot,' illegally stockpiling ammunition.
What constitutes a stockpile you ask;

FBI agents raided Ireland’s house on Thursday and found seven rounds of illegal ammunition, the Blade reports.

[James D.]

why are the “progressives” who moiled outside Senator Mitch McConnell’s house the other night not cooling their heels in a federal lock-up for threatening to assassinate a public official?

Because the “justice” and “law enforcement” people who would lock them up would be perfectly happy to see Mitch killed. They’d have a party if he was.

[Jane]

Here It Is… Complete List of Clinton Associates Who Allegedly Died Mysteriously or Committed Suicide Before Testimony, Including Jeffrey Epstein

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/here-it-is-complete-list-of-clinton-associates-who-allegedly-died-mysteriously-or-committed-suicide-before-testimony-including-jeffrey-epstein/

[clarice]

good news, Mom!

[clarice]

Actually, Ig, that's not true of those with narcissistic personality disorder. Maybe true for just ordinary narcissists.

[clarice]

I dislike Frum, but I agree with him that the president should not have retweeted that.

[Melinda]

This certainly seems a simple way to get a lot of bad actors all in the same place:

https://twitter.com/jkylebass/status/1160539828724912128?s=21

[Narciso]

Wonderful momto2

Pinnette needs to lay off the drawn butter.

[Narciso]

That's a clip of ammo, right?

[Melinda]

Scalise blew up that meme, but quick:

https://twitter.com/facethenation/status/1160564519313297408?s=21

[Melinda]

But back to China:

https://twitter.com/gordongchang/status/1160565486482067456?s=21

[JimNorCal]

Love TMs metaphors LOL
"My keen nose for news is right on the pulse of the nation"

Hey! Who's snuffling my wrist?!?

[matt - deplore me if you must]

It have a FB acquaintance who is dyed in the wool establishment and has gone completely off the deep end, He posts anything and everything anti-Trump no matter how outrageous.

Our media now don't use the 2 Minute Hate. It is now the 60 Minute Hate 24/7.

How can one assume moral superiority if one is spewing hate all the time? I am willing to listen to the other side, always, but what they are saying now is batshit crazy. They have taken leave of their senses on a national scale and are scarier than hell.

I'm with Ig on Epstein. He had a legitimate shot at getting out and the moolah to pay for it. Somehow I think Hannity's bleach bit, erased, crushed, steamrollered dropped in sulphuric acid and fed to the pigs rant will play out in real time with all of the evidence.

And we are now spared the "Can you described the accused's penis?" interrogatories. I was so looking forward to that. The Enquirer's stock price is going to drop 20% tomorrow.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I can hear the groans as I bring up...yes, diet.
One of the things most difficult to explain away for the keto crowd has been The Blue Zones; areas like Okinawa, Sardinia, Loma Linda CA, etc, where the people live to extraordinary ages and uniformly eat mostly vegetarian, non-keto diets.

A new, apparently as yet unpublished study indicates the Blue Zones are in fact highly correlated with no or deficient vital records and..."the designated ‘blue zones’ of Sardinia, Okinawa, and Ikaria corresponded to regions with low incomes, low literacy, high crime rate and short life expectancy relative to their national average. As such, relative poverty and short lifespan constitute unexpected predictors of centenarian and supercentenarian status, and support a primary role of fraud and error in generating remarkable human age records."

Gundry says tomato, Taubes says potato, let's call the whole grain off...for 12-16 hours per day :)

[James D.]

Why, clarice?

Bill Clinton is a known rapist and frequent guest on Epstein’s island. His wife led “bimbo eruption” squads to silence troublesome women.

And they’ve both spent their entire adult life’s lying about everything all the time and violating every law, rule and moral standard put in front of them.

Why shouldn’t they be accused?

[Threadkiller]

Surber's self proclaimed triumph over Ann Coulter isn't over the current issue. It is a highlight of his predictive powers from 2 years ago.

He told his fans in 2017 that Coulter was wrong with regards to The Wall and DACAmites.

Apparently the wall is completed and Illegal Alien Dreamers aren't enjoying any benefits from government.

I guess it isn't "amnesty," Don, so you got her there.

[Threadkiller]

Soon to be Momto3?

Congratulations!

[Captain Hate]

That Arkancide list doesn't seem to include the "weightlifting accident" that crushed the throat of the guy about to testify on Haiti.

Fucking Hofts.

[Captain Hate]

Congrats Momto2.

[D]

JamesD:
The girl shouting had her name on the video as the person who was filming outside of McConnell’s house.
She is a person of color so of course no arrest is eminent.
Just like the assailants of NGO.
They don't care to arrest prog crazies.
Agree with Clarice that the President should watch what he retweets.
Don’t give the Left any more ammunition.
If meetings with lawyers info is released, I think you will find that it was going to be a hopeless situation for Epstein, hence he killed himself.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Actually, Ig, that's not true of those with narcissistic personality disorder.--

You appear to be correct after I did a little research, clarice. It's an oft repeated claim but the research seems to indicate otherwise.
Not surprising I suppose when you consider their damaged self image.

I still doubt he killed himself. Part of the reason we doubt things like this is because we want to resist the admission of just how corrupt things are and we don't want to be seen as one of the nuts who does believe how corrupt things are.
But hasn't the intensity and pervasiveness of the corruption already proven itself?

[D]

Momto2:
Congratulations to your son and his bride to be and to your entire family.

[clarice]

We know the intelligence community and the FBI were seriously corrupted. I also believe longstanding practices --i.e. the 302 instead of video interrogations makes it easier to corrupt the FBI as was Obama's bringing in non agency types to run the agency .
And you'd have to be an idiot to believe prison personnel cannot and never would be corrupted.
Still, looking at the kind of person JE appears to have been and what he was facing I think suicide is more likely than not. Now, reports say he hanged himself but that is not confirmed. He may have found another way--say a pill slipped to him by a confederate. I await the autopsy report.

[D]

Clarice:
Wonderful Pieces!
I agree about waiting for the autopsy report.

[MissMarple3]

Congratulations, Momto2! That is wonderful news.

I am not posting very much because I hate the Apple keyboard and I cannot easily copy text and links. I am going to get a monitor on Wednesday so I can get back to my old habits. In the meantime, I am reading JOM and Twitter so I can keep up.

[matt - deplore me if you must]

One of the problems law enforcement run into when arresting Leftists I that they begin screaming police brutality and "ATTICA" as the officer protects their soft little heads as they ease them into the back of the squad car.

Policing is kinder and gentler now, but as big city Commies hogtie law enforcement the truly violent get those same rights to comfy hairs and arugula in venues other than San Francisco or Portland. None of those in government wants to be branded as Hitlers or Trumpians.

[Threadkiller]

He may have found another way--say a pill slipped to him by a confederate. I await the autopsy report.

So if the autopsy suggests a poison killed him, will you trust the DoJ when they announce that it was self administered?

[boris]

It does not seem to me that Epstein's legal jeopardy was that severe. Was it?

He certainly had cards to play with respect to big trophy fish.

It seems to me the swamp had means, motive, and opportunity.

So why would the natural inference he out of bounds?

[Melinda]

Barr has announced a formal DoJ investigation into the death of J Epstein

[Melinda]

Per WSJ

[Marlene]

Congrats Momto2!

[Threadkiller]

Fun with autopsies:

https://www.thepostemail.com/2014/03/31/seeing-with-ones-own-eyes-evidence-the-hawaii-medical-examiner-turned-a-blind-eye-to-the-death-of-loretta-fuddy/

[Buckeye]

The circumstances of Mr Epstein’s death are such that I’ve completely lost any faith in the concept of “Justice” that in any way involves the institutional FBI or Department of Justice.

I lost faith a loooong time ago.

That is why I favor Mitch Rapp being brought out of retirement.

[Captain Hate]

So if the autopsy suggests a poison killed him, will you trust the DoJ when they announce that it was self administered?

This is part of what Trump is trying to fix. Let's stamp our feet more when he doesn't follow our preferred schedule.

[hrtshpdbox]

They're the guys who go to The Chair screaming their innocence after the cops find their last five girlfriends heads in their bowling ball bags.

Be fair...sometimes there are mix-ups at the alleys.

[Narciso]

Yes but even rapp or Andrea's or tho4vald or even John milton run into obstacles.

[Narciso]

No it's not that easy tk because the minefield is ringed with barber wire

[Jane]

Wonder why Epstein didn't leave a note if he killed himself.

[Threadkiller]

That I remember, CH, you said you would be pretty torqued if DJT doesn't get to the heart of the Epstein episode.

Is there a timeline for your expectation?

[clarice]

Probably no paper or pencil in the cell, Jane.

[Narciso]

Well he was protected by main justice who also were a tool of the sacklers, he probably had 'Krisha' from other agencies and personnel, however when he is no longer useful he became expendable.

[James D.]

I await the autopsy report.

What reason do we have to trust whatever we're told about the autoposy report?

Is there ANYONE in the SDNY, or at DoJ generally, who deserves even one ounce worth of benefit of the doubt?

[Captain Hate]

I think he knows this has to be addressed quickly and directly to the public, TK. We'll see what happens. There's a relatively small organization line of involvement with this. I'd be surprised if he and Barr haven't talked a lot in the last 24 hours.

[MissMarple3]

Not as far as I am concerned, James D.

[Narciso]

So practically what would it take is some mid level official telling the guards not to do the rounds shutting down one corner of the detention wing, and of course someone on the inside,

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Does Jesus's admonition to love my neighbor as myself even include a neighbor who plays the worst music in history, Bread, Air Supply, etal, loud enough for me to hear?

[Momto2]

How would Epstein know when the guards were not doing their usual rounds? Was he told ahead of time? Seems if he were constantly trying to commit suicide they would not have any grounds to remove the watch. But that he just happened to try it when they just happened to not be checking seems to stretch credulity.

[clarice]

I do not think so, Iggy. Maybe I can research that.

[Marlene]

Good afternoon! I guess it has been raining frogs here. :) I was washing the lunch dishes,looked out the window and hubby was hitting the side of the cabin with a stick. The dog was jumping all over it when the frog hit the ground. Never a dull moment.

[Rocco]

When you begin your shift on the 12-8 am shift, the first thing you do is take a count. The cons are all locked in for the night, some sleeping, some not. With flashlight in hand you walk cell to cell using the light to see flesh or a chest rising and falling as they sleep. The policy for taking counts in MA, is every 30 minutes. Of course everything is noted in a log book and cameras are probably mounted everywhere if this was a new building.

Keep in mind that no one ever checks those cams unless something happens so a lazy screw might fall asleep and miss a couple of counts. But the cons do know exactly when you're due to take that count. Even if those counts were taken as policy dictates, he had 30 mins to kill himself.

[clarice]

Yes, Rocco. Institutional routines are easy to master if you're so inclined.

[clarice]

I take it that in other than suicide watch places, the cams are focused on the hallways not the cells. Am I correct?

[D]

Iggy:
Hey,I saw Bread in concert at Blossom Music Center back in the day!
Loved their mellow music.
I trust Rocco completely on the Epstein case because he has more knowledge than any of us of what goes on inside a prison facility.

[Rocco]

I remember logging my counts as...

3:30 count blah blah
4:00 count blah blah
etc

And then someone hung it up and the policy changed from half hour counts to half hour cell checks. The lawyers argued if we logging just counts, we weren't checking for inmate safety.

[hrtshpdbox]

Iggy, I asked Jesus if I had to love my neighbor, who has apparently slightly loosened every screw on his truck so that he can impress the neighborhood with the umpteen mega sub-woofers he's installed in said truck. Jesus asked me what part of "love thy neighbor" I didn't understand.

[Rocco]

Right clarice, just the common areas have cams.

[hrtshpdbox]

Keep in mind that no one ever checks those cams unless something happens so a lazy screw might fall asleep and miss a couple of counts.

During which the Queen runs into the cell, Prince Phillip futilely trying to catch up, and screams "Andrew is my favorite son, you cad" while administering lethal blows with her cane. It could happen.

[Narciso]

Skydragons taking one for the team:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/1160429994163593216

[MissMarple3]

Saw on Twitter that the New York medical examiner's report is due this afternoon.

[Rocco]

The building I worked in was built in the 20's so we never had cams anywhere for most of my time there. They were installed a few years before I left. Back in the day we had a Blue Room in the infirmary that was padded, ceiling, walls and floor. No outside window just a small thick piece of glass in the wooden door so the con could be observed. It only had a small drain in the middle of the floor. We'd strip him down and throw him in there until they stopped trying to hurt themselves. Sometimes restraints were required.

[Momto2]

I trust Rocco completely on the Epstein case because he has more knowledge than any of us of what goes on inside a prison facility.

Me, too! Thanks Rocco!

[hrtshpdbox]

This fellow who's spent time in the facility says a suicide can't happen if the guards don't want it to:
https://nypost.com/2019/08/10/former-mcc-inmate-theres-no-way-jeffrey-epstein-killed-himself/

[anonamom]

No Ig, it is NOT difficult in the least to "explain away" the Blue Zones IRT to keto--they are the same thing--decreased exposure to INSULIN.

The Blue Zones, despite VASTLY differing diets, have as their common denominator either relative food scarcity (poverty) or periods of religious fasting (the Italians back in the day when I was littel and we Catholics fasted before communion--a daily event for many, and all of Lent; Eastern Orhtodox).

Both not ingesting carbs and plain not eating at all decrease the time one has insulin coursing through one's veins.

So--either not eat, or eat all the fat and protein you want.

Your call.

[Rocco]

Thanks but I could be way off too!

Here's that restraint chair we eventually started using. If they started spitting, we'd put a helmut with a face mask on them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnrdZOxxnbE