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August 15, 2019

Comments

Jane

Pretty hard to kill yourself if you have to get on your knees to do it.

Captain Hate

Game on, paste eater

Shots fired. Grassley asks Mnuchin to investigate Hunter Biden for his dealings with China.

https://tinyurl.com/yynqev4m
Posted by: JackStraw at August 15, 2019 04:26 PM (ZLI7S)

Pinandpuller

Miss Marple

I met my ex wife when she was working in a CC library. She wanted to get an MLS and the whole nine yard but never did. There’s bound to be many colleges around you. I don’t know what the turnover is like though.

Jane

Jeffrey Epstein’s body was claimed from the New York City medical examiner’s office by an unidentified ‘associate.’

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/08/mystery-epsteins-body-claimed-by-unidentified-associate/

Gee, are we sure it was him?

Pinandpuller

Did the picture of Epstein’s cell have a Getty watermark?

Tom Bowler

Pin's got it. Boll and Branch.

D

Jane:
I am sure there will be Epstein sightings just like Elvis for the next ten years!

Melinda

I thought these were the cells that didn't have that little feature, amongst others..

I'll wait, this certainly has plenty of multiple sources of information that could easily turn into Mis-Information...

Melinda

The Comey info was in the Grassley drop last night.

Pinandpuller

The best sheets you’ll never wake up in.

Epstein was the first successful suicide in FORTY YEARS? At that facility.

Gonna need a No Successful Suicides In 7 Days sign.

henry

From the Grassley drop... the FBI are crooks from top to bottom.

Narciso

Justice delaued:
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/14/investigation-clears-analyst-accused-of-leaking-da/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR0yCXK2yoxn3NLrN0GxLlxx3mhZoBnE-AuUbSss-uOQ8ceYhcNwqjeRmAA

Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA

"No mystery about Epstein
He hung by his neck until dead."

Some are saying there was nowhere to hang from.
He was dead when found, they *must* know where the rope or knitted sheets were attached, yes?

clarice

MM, that drawing was of a suicide watch cell. One bunk because only one prisoner in a cell on suicide watch.

As my friend Jeffrey Satinover concurs of the preliminary autopsy report: "There's no statistically useful discriminatory power in this finding"

henry

@realDonaldTrump

Walmart, a great indicator as to how the U.S. is doing, just released outstanding numbers. Our Country, unlike others, is doing great! Don’t let the Fake News convince you otherwise.

Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA

Knotted sheets lol

Marlene

Yes maryrose,tomorrow is the 42nd anniversary of Elvis' death. Speaking of conspiracy theories. :)

Momto2

All of this talk of Epstein's Hyoid bone and hangings is giving me the heebie jeebies. Two years ago this past Monday was my auto accident where I broke my C2 in two places. The doctors called it a "hangman's break" because it is the bone that breaks when a person is hanged. It often causes instant death or at least paralysis (Christopher Reeve). I don't think about it every day anymore but can't avoid it this week. I am grateful to be alive and moving!

MissMarple3

clarice,

It wasn't a drawing, it was a photo.

I am reserving judgement. As I have said, I trust very few people in government other than the President.

There are WAY too many pedophile/child porn/child trafficking arrests, and I had NO idea this was that widespread. Why did it take Donald Trump's election to get these arrests made?


jimmyk

Every I read 'X' about the circumstances of Epstein's death, I can be sure I'll read 'not X' within an hour. For example, I used duck duck go with "Epstein medical examiner report" and got for the top three items:


Autopsy points to possibility Epstein was strangled: Report

Jeffrey Epstein hanged himself with bedsheet: Report

Chief medical examiner confident Epstein's death was suicide: Report


And of course all of these are citing unnamed sources.

But surely photographs were taken of how he was found (not that they would be decisive if it was staged), and everything about the cell would be known by investigators. It wouldn't surprise me if this was the additional information the ME needed before deciding on a cause of death.

clarice

If the sheet was tied in such a way that it had a short length to his neck with the knot properly placed, he would have lost consciousness as soon as he jumped from the top bunk.
Remember Bourdain and that designer--both did themselves in from doorknobs.

Narciso

Can anyone do a competent autopsy, calling ducky who ever was the coroner on csi ny?

Pinandpuller

There’s a guy on YouTube who goes by Lionel Nation. He claims to be a former federal prosecutor. He said to remember “NASH”.

Natural, Accidental, Suicide and Homocide.

Only the first word lets the DOC off the hook. The other three carry variations of negligence.

Also, Stefan Molyneaux pointed out that they could have given him paper sheets like you might find in a doctor’s office. They didn’t.

clarice

MM, you can believe whatever you want. Rocco posted a picture of the same kind of cell Madoff had at MCC and it was a metal bunkbed secured to the floor just as I said.

Pinandpuller

There was just a Law and Order CI episode where a serial killer would attach a rope from the victim’s neck to their left ankle. I imagine that’s one possible scenario in a room with no attachment points but then you have to be committed fully to the project.

anonamom

Hyoid fractures unlikely in hangings.
Most hangings have a physical object below it. Death is from cervical spine fracture from weight of body, and subsequent spinal cord disruption, gettign the nerves that go to the diaphragm.
Pushing up on the hyoid from below does not usually fracture it.
Generally need direct force to break a hyoid bone.

Narciso

So at best, the most secure prison on the east coast is run likr thr 4077,

clarice

Here it is again--the Madoff jail cell:https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi2itbN4oXkAhXGrFkKHc8EDMoQjRx6BAgBEAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nydailynews.com%2Fnews%2Fmoney%2Fbernard-madoff-new-home-metropolitan-correctional-center-prison-manhattan-article-1.371570&psig=AOvVaw0xRWPhG2IBaOyoKdSisjaI&ust=1565989220407324

anonamom, I think that's not the opinion of the coroner.

D

Any good info from the Grassley drop?

Rocco

AB, yeah, sex offenders have a rough time in jail and rightfully so. That's why they isolate them in protective custody units. Now I've never seen a brother officer abuse them, even though it's not easy having to do anything for them. And even if their entitled to what they're asking for, but it's part of the job. And you can't just turn a blind eye when others bully or assault them, the other cons would dime you out for sure and you'd probably be fired.

When an inmate would approach an officer and tell him he needs protection, he'd always say, "I want to check in," Checking in meant I want to go to the PC Unit. So we'd escort that inmate to his cell, watch him pack up his stuff and escort him down that tier to the PC unit. All the solid cons would start singing na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye...the walk of shame they called it.

clarice

LMT online: "An autopsy found that financier Jeffrey Epstein sustained multiple breaks in his neck bones, according to two people familiar with the findings, deepening the mystery about the circumstances around his death.
Among the bones broken in Epstein's neck was the hyoid bone, which in men is near the Adam's apple. Such breaks can occur in those who hang themselves, particularly if they are older, according to forensics experts and studies on the subject. But they are more common in victims of homicide by strangulation, the experts said."

D

Rocco:
Your information is invaluable in this discussion.
When you describe it, I almost feel like I am there.
Thank you again for your expertise.

jimmyk

I think that's not the opinion of the coroner.

The last I read, the ME had not released a cause of death, and was awaiting more information.

Melinda

Dale Earnhardt, Jr plane crash update:

https://twitter.com/thechiiium/status/1162103987165892608?s=21

Melinda

Lisa Mei says 17,000 were unmasked:

https://twitter.com/lisamei62/status/1162104801347407872?s=21

Melinda

OANN story:

https://twitter.com/aka_realdirty/status/1162101772669919232?s=21

Pinandpuller

If you held a knotted sheet up to my throat I’m not sure I could name a successful prosecution under this Barr guy. Can I phone a friend?

MissMarple3

Video at link.

NEW: Video shows thick, black smoke rising from the site of a small plane crash that was carrying Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and his family. Everyone on board, including Earnhardt, escaped the wreck, said the local sheriff. https://t.co/2nqljR6C5C pic.twitter.com/noizctpZVk

— ABC News (@ABC) August 15, 2019
D

Melinda:
Wow!
Susan Rice- going down...

anonamom

Maryrose, where ya been sweetheart?
105 pages of good info!

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1162001040415363073.html?

Rocco

I think clarice is correct about that single cell diagram of Epsteins cell. I believe that was the cell he was put into for suicide watch.

I've seen a couple of guys hang themselves by standing on the floor and leaning forward. One died, the other was a phony attempt.

You're not going to stop someone who wants to kill themselves. Even if you take 30 minute counts, once you go by that cell and check it, that inmate has another 30 minutes to buy the farm.

We had a young kid who had only been there a couple of days, hang himself when his cellmate went to chow, 20 minutes tops. He tied a piece of ripped bedsheet to each wrist, stepped through the sheet so it was now behind him and then roll his wrists until they were together, then he jumped. He had the noose tied to a grate near the ceiling. I think because he was so young, it bothered me for a long time.

Pinandpuller

Did Epstein have as many drugs in his system as the Dayton shooter?

I’d say the stigma of suicide is officially gone seeing as how Bourdain’s show is running stronger than ever in syndication.

D

Anonamom:
Thank you.
I value your posts very much.
I have cut down on carbs thanks to your expertise.

clarice

https://www.wsj.com/articles/lifestyles-of-the-rich-and-famous-professors-11565902711?mod=djemBestOfTheWeb

Melinda

Grassley ask Mnuchin to investigate Hunter Biden:

https://twitter.com/jarradkushner/status/1162089129967943680?s=21

anonamom

Someone else posted that.

I sure hope it's not more #TwoMoreWeeks--though for the indictments coming from that, I will wait two weeks!

Narciso

17,000 the quataris only unmaskes 1200, which is about 1/14th that number.

clarice

Jimmyk, we have not been privy to the coroner's report itself, but everything I read said based on the available information she could not yet say if it was murder or suicide--doubtless because in a man of his age the hyoid bone breaks often whether by strangulation or hanging.

Pinandpuller

The Army and DOC have body weight tables for hanging. There’s a dude who claimed he was too heavy to be hanged and a court agreed. I just want to know how he was allowed to eat 6,000 calories a day: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11225694/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/prisoner-once-found-too-fat-hang-dies/

Rocco

I also think clarice hit the nail on the head when she mentioned the possibility of tying a good knot in the right place. That knot on that guy we found leaning forward was so tight, we couldn't get it off his neck. He was already dead but that's when policies and procedures get changed. The new policy dictated that a pair of safety scissors be included in the locked first aid kits.

Pinandpuller

So do we just chalk it all up to a Cascade of Failures like the Challenger?

clarice

I'd chalk it up to what Rocco said--when somebody wants to kill himself there's nothing that can stop him. (Except maybe keeping him on suicide watch.)

Marlene

Thanks for the Dale Jr. news. I have six degrees of separation because my brother works for a NASCAR engine shop. My cousin is a personal friend of Dale Jr. He was at the hospital with Dale Jr. after Sr.'s fatal crash. We have also driven on the Bristol track,it is like driving in a bowl.

Gentlejim

MM,
Sorry to hear about daughter’s lay-off. There a lots of insurance claims type jobs listed around Indy on Monster. She’ll land on her feet.

anonamom

anonamom, I think that's not the opinion of the coroner.

clarice, that's not a matter of opinion, that is fact.
Why the Thai study of suicides showed only 25% of them had hyoid fractures.

I most definitely will have a very hard time getting excited about the coroner's "opinion". As far as I am concerned, she's another D flunky until I find out differently.

I care far more about what the pathologist Epstein's attorneys had there thinks. Have we heard from him??

henry

@WSJ

Trump has asked advisers whether the U.S. can acquire Greenland, listened with interest when they discuss its resources and geopolitical importance, and, according to two people familiar with the deliberations, has asked his White House counsel to look into the idea

MissMarple3

Gentlejim,

I know. She's on the computer right now.

I hope she finds a jo0b soon enough that she can bank that severance and have a tidy emergency fund.

clarice

Nothing from Dr Baden, anonamom, but as you may know his background is sketchy.https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/who-dr-michael-baden-coroner-examined-michael-brown-n183516

anonamom

clarice, why do you think Epstein's attorneys have lawyered up?

clarice

Because the FBI will be questioning them about why they asked to remove Epstein from suicide watch is my guess.

Comanche Voter

Threadkiller--I live in a close in suburb of downtown Los Angeles--about 8 miles as the crow flies from City Hall--but up in the brushline on the face of one of the local foothills. I used to joke that I could see my office when I turned at the corner of the cul de sac I live on. I liked to sneak up on my work, and there it was, the office tower where I spent my work day, staring me in the face not 3 seconds after I pulled out of the driveway.

As for the vershluggener "high effiency" lights mandated when one remodels, I know where I'd like to stuff the dead light bulbs! They wouldn't shine there either.

Pinandpuller

I’m not saying I disagree clarice, but if a guy who is wearing paper jammies and sleeping in paper linen dies of a broken hyoid then it narrows the possibilities.

Not to swing back to JFK but I’d love to know more about the State Department drone that allowed LHO to repatriate after basically defecting to the CCCP. JFK may have still been killed that day but the vector raises even more questions.

Epstein certainly had a motive for suicide. An unknown number of actors had motives for homicide. People in the DOC and DOJ are definitely guilty of negligence. Do they honestly not have ankle monitors that can keep track of a heartbeat?

Jack is Back!

So, if you are a racist anti - semantic, you should be allowed to enter the country you despise? You mean likeD-Day? I could only wish. Islam is the world’s cancer. No cure but total death.

clarice

Hi, JIB!

clarice

Pin, he was in a regular cell with regular sheets--not paper on the night he died.

MissMarple3

Jack!!!

So glad to see you! Please stick around!

Jack is Back!

Semantic works for me but you know what I meant: Semitic.

Captain Hate

Welcome back, Jack.

Pinandpuller

The important thing is, did Epstein take the Black mass shooter out of the headlines?

jimmyk

“Trump has asked advisers whether the U.S. can acquire Greenland”

Doesn’t Denmark “own” it now? If the climate change believers have it right, Greenland will be full of beach resorts in a few decades.

henry

JiB, they are anti-semantic as well.

Jack is Back!

I recommend leaving and just reading JOM as a lurker for weeks. Just do it and tell me your opinion of the results. Damn surprising to me. I won’t post my reveals but they are dandy.

Some posters here are so absolute, their shit doesn’t stink. Hrtshbox inspire my comment. He is correct in his acceptance. Try it for a week or two.

Pinandpuller

clarice

Yes, that’s my point. It muddies the water. Even if he did kill himself there’s still a huge coverup/CYA going on with missing camera footage and guards falling asleep and whatnot.

TBF the guards negligence may be a regular occurrence. Procedures may very well be changed but if that forty year streak is accurate they had a good record until they didn’t.

Old girl warden flashing Illuminati signs is going down. Women Of Color hardest hit.

Pinandpuller

She might beat the rap, but she won’t beat the ride.

Captain Hate

when somebody wants to kill himself there's nothing that can stop him.

This is excusing incompetence or complicity. This is like giving all the cons loaded pistols, putting them in a large room and, seeing the pile of bodies, saying "welp, if violent people want to kill each other there's nothing that can stop them".

This was a major fuckup by the DOJ and frankly Barr can take a hike by not being more forthcoming to this point; because this reflects badly on his boss and dragging his fat ass on this isn't a good look.

peter

MM, I am not sure about your part of the country but around here the hottest job search engine is called "indeed." The insurance industry is always hiring people. Many if not most claims people work out of their home or in virtual offices

Melinda

Absolutists-R-Us!

That’s me. Charter member!

clarice

No doubt the jail has not been well run. Just read a serial felon was accidentally released from there. Still doesn't mean Barr can go in and fire everyone without some prep work and investigation. And it still doesn't add much to the murder theory IMO.

Melinda

Hi, JiB!

joan

A thread on Adam Lovinger, a little-known, but important player in the #Spygate scandal.

2) Adam Lovinger worked as a strategist in the Pentagon's Office of Net Assessment (ONA) which is a think tank that looks 20 to 30 years into the military's future.

His job required a top-level security clearance.
3) Lovinger grew concerned over the ONA's use of outside contractors, cronyism and a revolving door policy due to analysts leaving to join the better-paid ranks of private contractors.
4) In September of 2016 Lovinger wrote an email to ONA director, James H. Baker. (See quote in tweet below)
5) "More than once I have heard our contractor studies labeled ‘derivative,’ ‘college-level’ and based heavily on secondary sources. One of our contractor studies was literally cut and pasted from a World Bank report that I just happened to have read the week before.”
6) The contractor being referenced was Long Term Strategy Group (LTSG), whose president is Jacqueline Newmyer Deal. Chelsea Clinton and Deal were at each other's weddings, and in 2011 Chelsea referred to Deal as her “best friend.”
7) Hillary Clinton tried to arrange Pentagon and State Department consulting contracts for Jacqueline Newmyer Deal, which raised concerns over federal ethics rules violations.

Clinton Sought Pentagon, State Dept. Contracts for Chelsea Friend
Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton sought to arrange Pentagon and State Department consulting contracts for her daughter’s friend.
https://freebeacon.com/national-security/clinton-sought-pentagon-state-department-contracts-chelseas-friend/
8) Lovinger wrote a second email to his boss identifying another individual as a source of contractual concern:
“The moral hazard associated with the Washington Headquarters Services contracting with Stefan Halper.”

9) Lovinger wrote: “Halper was being used by Net Assessment to go out essentially and engage with foreign government officials. As a contractor that’s totally illegal.”

10) Halper was awarded $1 million in contracts
Lovinger said: “There has never been an external review of these contractors’ research products. It is now clear that over several decades the office [ONA] transferred millions of dollars to inexperienced and unqualified contractors”
11) During the Trump transition, Lovinger was invited by General Flynn to serve as a Senior Director on the White House Security Council, along with Ezra Cohen-Watnick.

On the day Lovinger was transferred, his boss at ONA (James H. Baker) filed four separate charges against him.

12) On May 1, 2017, Lovinger was notified that his Top-Secret, Sensitive Compartmented Information clearance had been suspended.

He was the second Trump official to lose his security clearance.

Lovinger returned to work at the Pentagon.
13) In June of 2017, Lovinger officially became a whistleblower. He filed an ethics complaint, charging that his superiors misused the security clearance process to punish him for exposing corruption.

@SaraCarterDC wrote this article.

Whistleblower Exposes Key Player in FBI Russia Probe: "It was all a Set-up"
Key player in Russia probe appears to have significant ties to Russian government
https://saraacarter.com/whistleblower-exposes-key-player-in-fbi-russia-probe-it-was-all-a-set-up/
14) In April 2018, Lovinger was notified by the Pentagon that he had been suspended without pay.

The Deep State Weaponizes Vetting of Trump Appointees
Unaccountable Pentagon officials block a security clearance for a would-be White House aide.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-deep-state-weaponizes-vetting-of-trump-appointees-1525215143
15) Lovinger appealed the unpaid suspension but the appeal was denied.

Supporters expressed shock at the ruling, saying the judge appeared to ignore all evidence that Lovinger was a victim of retaliation and didn’t breach security rules.

Adam Lovinger, Trump supporter stripped of Pentagon security clearance
Adam Lovinger, the Trump-supporting Pentagon analyst stripped of his security clearance, has lost his appeal.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/jun/20/adam-lovinger-trump-supporter-stripped-pentagon-se/
16) The latest:
A confidential counterintelligence investigation By NCIS cleared Lovinger of allegations of leaking data to the news media, but the Pentagon never told his lawyers he had been cleared of wrongdoing.

Investigation clears analyst accused of leaking data, but officials ne
A confidential counterintelligence investigation cleared suspended Pentagon analyst Adam S. Lovinger on allegations of leaking data to the news media, but officials never told his defense team.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/14/investigation-clears-analyst-accused-of-leaking-da/
17) Lovinger’s attorney, Sean Bigley, has filed a complaint with the Defense Department Inspector General, accusing Pentagon officials of a “serious ethics violation” by withholding the exoneration.
18) Chuck Grassley is putting pressure on the Pentagon to come clean about their use of Stefan Halper.

Grassley says Pentagon failed to meet demand for info on contracts with FBI informant Stefan Halper
The Defense Department missed a top Republican lawmaker's deadline to provide information about an FBI informant who was a source for the bureau's Trump-Russia investigation during the 2016 election …
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/grassley

It's worse than a swamp. It's a cesspit.

MissMarple3

Manchester arena looks almost completely full.

I bet his speech will be a barnburner tonight!

D

After 40 years of a clean record, people become complacent.
Guards asleep and faking reports sounds like something that would be done by guards working overtime and one person who is a substitute and doesn’t feel the same amount of responsibility.
All seems logical to me.
If I were Epstein, who thought I was going to get bail and then didn’t, I would be looking for a way out.
He probably thought how high up he used to be, and now his great was his fall.
I think the lawyers told him, not a chance in hell you are getting off this time.

Captain Hate

Still doesn't mean Barr can go in and fire everyone without some prep work and investigation

I agree, which is why he should be having daily pressers on the progress of the investigation. They don't have to be long, just quick summaries of what's been done and field a few questions if he wants.

MissMarple3

Wow!

Massive line for @realDonaldTrump in New Hampshire ahead the rally tonight!#Trump2020 #TrumpRally

pic.twitter.com/m4t68z5txn

— Team Trump (@TeamTrump) August 15, 2019

Video at the link.

Jane

The evidence is that he didn't want to kill himself. And it was a 2 bed room. He would have had to attach to the top bed, and then kneel down until he passed out. Not buying it.

Threadkiller

Maybe it is simple Trust-in-Trump/Trust-in-Barr misdirection so they can catch the real culprits.

D

Epstein’s lawyers are trying to prevent any other people involved from being indicted and want to shut this whole thing down.
I think it is normal they would have lawyers to make sure none of the eventual blowback falls on them.

Threadkiller

Greetings, JiB!

henry

Seal going on the podium, Trump in the building in NH

MissMarple3

Presidential seal has been put on the podium.

D

Jane:
Sorry but we have no absolute proof at this time that Epstein didn’t want to kill himself.
What did he have to live for really?

Jack is Back!

Question: What’s more important? Epstein death or Spygate?

It seems Epstein is getting more noteriety here tha spygate. Great diversion by the blue dressing ex-POTUS tranny.

henry

Miss M’s TSBN livestream link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuj9baeOmxg

MissMarple3

henry,

It is amazing how often we are absolutely in sync on our posts.

henry

The link is better than my spelling.

henry

JiB, the Grassley Spygate dump is devastating. Epstein is a [unspeakably evil] soap opera diversion.

MissMarple3

Thanks, henry.

I am glad to support RSBN, as they give extensive coverage including interviews, the lines, and the early crowd in the arena. They are mostly students from Auburn and they do a great job!

Threadkiller

Grassley says Pentagon failed to meet demand for info on contracts with FBI informant Stefan Halper

Trump's Pentagon...

This is why I sometimes feel the same about Trump's actions as you do about Barr's, CH.

D

JIB:
Spy gate is way more important than Epstein and probably the reason there are no daily briefings on it.Epstein doesn’t rate a daily wrap up report.
This is the perfect distraction from the release of all that incriminating Clinton and Comey stuff that was released today.
Let us not get sidetracked by what the media want to cover.
Keep your on the ball of Spygate.

MissMarple3

President Trump is in the building!

The comments to this entry are closed.

Wilson/Plame