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September 14, 2019



Is football ready for me?


Ohio State trounced IU 57-10.



Go Cardinals! (Baseball version).


Thats called a nuking miss marple, actually more a death star blast.


Link goes to screen cap of readout .

Readout from @JuddPDeere45 of the @POTUS-MBS phone call. pic.twitter.com/tFptEFEkkq

— Steve Herman (@W7VOA) September 14, 2019
Jim Eagle

Golden Domers up 21 on the Lobos. Is Cathyf there?

Frederick playing a scrimmage against Kingswood Oxford.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--We are getting the early effects of Humberto. An angry sea...--

Be on the lookout for whales with golf balls in their blow holes.


but I posted a joke on the last thread...

Jim Eagle

Getting boring in South Bend and Mayor Pete isn’t even in town.


As I went to my car (out of beer), a flock of turkey flew* down from trees on one side of my driveway and into the woods (toms up to the trees) on the other side. I now have beer (plus oil change and car wash), but no idea why the turkey crossed the road.

* contra WKRP, turkey can fly. (At least wild ones). They roost in trees at night.


when it rains it pours.

Mrs. Kid and i made peace with the recent spate of medical nemeses and the upcoming valve replacement surgery. took the spiritual approach to the challenges and did some heavy lifting to get ready for the 19th. ("Faith without good works is dead.")

and we resolved to follow the advice of "Dan in Real Life": Prepare to be surprised.

1st came the news of no open heart surgery hinging on the news that the vascular system and the heart muscle are fat free, clog free, and the vascular plumbing is clear as a whistle.

yesterday, a business associate and spiritual mentor of 28 years who now reps for the largest agricultural credit bank in north america called to offer my company a 7 year contract to design build an online learning system for their training division.

okay then. and ND is up 35-7. Do i dare wish for OAK to take down Mahomie and the Chiefs?

Lovin life here.


takin one for the team, petey! :D


Ben Hunt

Bill Ackman’s wife took $$ from noted art philanthropist Jeffrey Epstein for her “nature-inspired designs” at MIT.

Larry Summers’ wife took $$ from noted literary patron Jeffrey Epstein for her “poetry foundation” at Harvard.

It’s almost as if there’s a ruling class.


Thread with details of incident in tweet I posted at 4:24:




Does this mean no surgery on the 19th?

Jim Eagle

UCF besting Stanford like a drum.



Does this require a constitutional amendment or simply passage by the House and Senate?

How many electoral votes would they get?

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Man I'm getting confused.
I came over here to find Henry seemingly implying the plural of turkey is turkey, just after I read on Bing that some pommy poofter singer I've never heard of has declared himself non-binary so now his preferred pronouns are they/them. But since binary means two and he's not two shouldn't he be even more singular than before?
So a flock of turkey is an it, but one dude is a they?


Kev, congrats on the training system contract! Nice to keep active after repairs on the 19th, minimally invasive repairs. As far as OAK, never tire of winning. :)

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--when it rains it pours--

I was getting all ready for bad news.
Congrats, KK.

BTW, is that Rabobank you're referring to?


Ig, my first language may be FORTRAN, but as a rose it a rose by any other name, anything born with a twig and berries is “he” independent of life in the patent’s basement.



I assume the “father” fled long ago.

Jim Eagle


I used to bow hunt when I was younger. Mostly deer but a friend took me into turkey. Think about bow hunting a wild turkey. After 3 seasons in Virginia, I finally bagged one. 3 arrows. 3 different turkeys.

And then you didn't need a stamp. But contrary to CW they can fly and maneuver through the trees.

Jim Eagle

Rabobank? A Dutch bank like that is in the news? For what?

I have previous relations with them.


JiB, bow hunting turkey is bad ass. I have friends who do that. I can’t hit the broad side of a barn with an arrow. (And have barn without arrow damage to prove it).

Jim Eagle

Stanford getting desperate. They have Tiger Woods on their sideline. Yeah, that will help. Go UCF.

Jim Eagle


All luck not skill. Believe me.


not rabobank. cannot disclose here.

MM: still going for surgery on the 19th. will begin working from home in late October.


UCF is looking to have a breakout year by going undefeated. needs more love in the "polls."

Jim Eagle

Wow. UCF beating Stanford like a wet rug on their momma's drying line.

Some colloquial English just for the Stanford IQ's.


thanks, Iggy. thanks, henry. i haven't worked since late april. will feel good getting back into the saddle.


My Hoosiers were not prepared for football.

It was still a great day for tail gating though.


Ig, you've checked out the hundreds of citations Gundry makes in his book, and decided there's not much evidence there? That must have been fairly recently. Last time you'd posted on him you said you hadn't read his book, just gone to his site, and you were complaining about the supplements he sells.
That's what I thought you objected to,and that is what I was referring to as the snake oil, not his book selling.

The commonality in blue zone peoples is not their diets, but their fasting, and that is what Longo's research is focused on. The Georgians and the Masai are often left out now, when people try to to advocate for a common "healthy" plant based diet, because neither eats the diet you describe, and that seems to be exactly what he did. He chose to follow the fish eaters diet.

But there ain't no fish in the mountains of Georgia, nor on the African savannah. But they too likely had periods of time historically where there was no food.

It may end up we can eat ice cream covered with crushed potato chips exclusively, and have all the blood markers of health and minimal inflamation, as long as we only do it three days a week and not eat the other four.

And fasting is what Longo's research is on, not whether three or four servings a day of grains will increase longevity and promote health, or whether fish is healthier than beef, as far as I can determine. All statements he makes on any of that is simply his subjective preference. Yes, he is smart. So is Gundry.
And Longo is selling books and products too.

We should be eating nutrient dense food, which are vegetables, berries, and high quality protein sources. Saturated animal fats are not unhealthy.
Grains are not nutrient dense.
People might argue quinoa is (and compared to the rest, it is!)

but compare it to liver:

They can be life savers when there is a famine, no doubt, when calories are needed; when there isn't, there is no need to rev up inflammation by consuming them.

Jim Eagle

I have to note that in the annals of history there is no history of a doctor arguing nutrition with a logger.

You are witnessing a First here. We are so blessed:)



There is NO way I will eat liver. None. Now liverwurst, I might if it is low carn./

NO LIVER HERE. I am reminded when my mom served liver one day (end of the half side of beef we wplit with my uncle) and the next day she served baked heart with dressing. Didn't even slice it; there it was on the platter with the aorta and the superior vena cava plainly visible.

My brother, who was in middle school then, came in, took one look, and said "All we ever have to eat here is turkey tongues and eyeballs!"

Then he got on his bike and road to Dairy Queen, about 2 miles away. LOL!


Going to my niece's birthday dinner. See you later this evening!

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Rabobank? A Dutch bank like that is in the news? For what?--

Rabo is very big out here in CA and elsewhere JiB, especially in agriculture and machinery.

Another Bob

I was surprised to learn BNP is well-established in the US via “Bank of the West”.

Les Nessman

"* contra WKRP, turkey can fly.

But contrary to CW they can fly and maneuver through the trees."

That's good news.
I've got plans.



As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly


Clarice, on the GJ discussion from the last thread: I know the standard of proof is lower, and the presentation is one-sided. Nonetheless, why wouldn't a roomful of partisan Democrats practice (grand) jury nullification in a high-profile case like McCabe's?

matt - deplore me if you must

There’s a trailhead not far away and there are a couple of wild turkeys that hang out there. One of the funniest things was watching them harass one particular mountain biker one day.

Wish I had a crossbow.


Where we camp up in the mountains of West by God, there are lots of turkeys.

They fly, but I don't think I have ever seen one far off the ground.

Enough to get to tree branches and that is about it.

If you are looking to see them flying in formation, don't hold your breath:)


JiB-- Yeah, as I was typing, I thought:
Food fight!!!

The fights in the nutrition world are FIERCE, as you can imagine, seeing how certain we all are here. ;-)

They are even doing "op" research on each other, revealing BigSugar money behind some of the "grains are OK" people. Scandal!

And the attempts to utterly destroy the HighFatLow Cal people early on! They tried to get the NY Med Board take Atkin's medical license away. Same with Tim Noakes in So Africa. His legal fight lasted a couple of years, after he--a mere MD--Tweeted to a mom to wean her baby to low carb high fat real food. A nutritionist charged him with misconduct.

There are people who won't sit on the same panels with others, after the things that have been said by one about the other. Gary Taube is one of them.


There are turkeys all over up at the lake.
I swear I've seen them fly---haven't I?
Though mainly they cross the road--as slowly as they see fit, with all their little ones following.
They are BIG BIRDS.

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--That must have been fairly recently. Last time you'd posted on him you said you hadn't read his book, just gone to his site, and you were complaining about the supplements he sells.--

No last time I posted I had gone to his site and read great many reviews both pro and con and linked several IIRC. They did review his supporting claims. And I did an extensive search for independent confirmation of his claims. They don't exist regarding lectins that I can see. If he is citing actual studies none of them are making it online. If his claims are true about lectins then Jason Fung should be shunned no, since he seems to have zero qualms about lectins? I have to confess I ordered Gundry's book from ebay but the ebay crook never sent it so I'll have to try again. I anticipate with great fervor being proven wrong, but remain less than sanguine about the odds of that occurring.

And I will confess my ignorance of the Georgia and Masai blue zones. I know of five; Okinawa; Sardinia; some place in Greece, Ikythiorkrakadupulos or something; some place in Costa Rica and the 7th Day Adventists of Loma Linda CA. The last may have the highest life spans in the world and are complete vegetarians and eat all sorts of nightshades, grains and legumes. the Okinawans suck down rice like Whimpy did hamburgers.
And it's worth noting that the suggestion has been raised that the reason people "live so long" in these blue zones is because they keep lousy birth records.
I haven't read Buettner's book but might get it.

--And fasting is what Longo's research is on, not whether three or four servings a day of grains will increase longevity and promote health, or whether fish is healthier than beef, as far as I can determine.--

Well I do have his book and have read it and that is not true. The name of the book is The Longevity Diet, not Fasting Your Way to Geezerdom. More of it is about diet than fasting. The last quarter of it is dietary guidelines and recipes for when you're not fasting.

--All statements he makes on any of that is simply his subjective preference. --

Also not true. His primary interest in blue zones is not whatever fasting they do but their diets. And a lot of his research and interest lie outside of fasting; he's a longevity researcher not just a fasting one.

--And Longo is selling books and products too.--

As far as I can tell, to avoid a conflict, he donates any royalties from his books to the organization that sells his food products and other charities. He has no direct connection to that organization and makes no money from it either.

The fact, it seems to me, is dietary and nutritional research and knowledge is about as well understood as the climate and has just as many charlatans with an ax to grind and a buck to be made involved in it, so we're left to tease out what little reliable information there is and act accordingly.
I'm not trying to convert anyone to Longo or Taubes or anyone else. I recommended my friend with the Parkinson's diagnosis look into the keto diet just a couple of days ago because there's evidence it works. I'd try to get my schizophrenic son on it if I could but there's no way he'd stick to it.

Admitting complete ignorance is very liberating; it's my foundational ethos. Might even be life extending. :)

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--That's good news.
I've got plans.

Posted by: Les Nessman--

Oh man. That the hardest I've laughed in several days.

jim nj


Pompeo blames Iran for drone attacks on Saudi oil field


MM@5:13, I ate heart once at a fru-fru restaurant in Providence, RI. I think it was pork heart. They did slice it, so it was not easy to see the chambers, etc. As I recall it tasted okay.

jim nj

You have to admire Bolton. Just days after being fired/resigning allegedly over a spat with Trump over easing the Iran sanctions, BOOM!


Here is what appears to be a fair and balanced article on Valter Longo, his research, and his products:


Ig, for someone who claims to not be trying to convert anyone to anybody's school of nutrition, your attacks on Gundry and your advocation of Longo certainly read like exactly that.

Longo giving his profits to the Longo Foundation makes him more--what exactly? Clintons do that too.


Don't buy Gundry's book, get it from the library. You're not going to need it after you read it.
Nobody who isn't ill would follow the no lectin thing, and you're not suffering from an autoimmune disease--the only time I ever offer it to any patients.
It's way too restrictive.

Captain Hate

To Hell with football: Goodell and the Cartel.

Captain Hate

I saw wild turkeys fly earlier in the week.

Captain Hate

Per Buckeye, they didn't fly far.


So where is the evidence of the drones after shaybah and the hits on the pipeline why wasnt their security on higher alert.


Alabama nuking south carolina.


Oh really:

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Ig, for someone who claims to not be trying to convert anyone to anybody's school of nutrition, your attacks on Gundry and your advocation of Longo certainly read like exactly that.--

People can eat whatever they please and I couldn't care less. People can also not eat whatever they please and I will care commensurately. All I have said is Gundry aint got no science. You aint never provided any so I'm thinkin he prolly aint got any.
Longo does seem to have some science. Whether anyone follows him I don't give a fricasseed, lectin free rat's arse. But that doesn't change the fact Longo seems to have science and Gundry doesn't. I will add Fung [who is pretty close to Longo's viewpoint] and Taubes seem to have good science too. That's partly my point; lots of conflicting science and claims = nobody knows much.
Now, since I love baked goods, root beer, steak, pork chops and also cakes and pies among the very various baked goods, milky way bars and Mounds and ice cream with the various baked goods, I wish Longo was wrong.
But I go where the soundest science seems to lead. Taubes seems sound if you're fat or diabetic. I'm neither. And I eat way more meat than Longo recommends so Valter can suck eggs too.

The soundest science seems to be avoid processed junk foods and fast. I can do that, so I do. What anyone else chooses to do is of no concern of mine. I will tell them my opinion if they want to know what meager knowledge I can share and that's it. The rest is between them and their fork.


Oh theres one question:


jim nj


Salena Zito with a very good point

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Longo giving his profits to the Longo Foundation makes him more--what exactly? Clintons do that too.--

That's pretty scurrilous primarily because it appears to be inaccurate.
He says he neither directs nor profits from his foundation. The Clintons quite obviously do both and they do it using primarily money OTHER PEOPLE who are buying influence and access donate to them.


Per wiki:

Despite their weight, wild turkeys, unlike their domesticated counterparts, are agile, fast fliers. In ideal habitat of open woodland or wooded grasslands, they may fly beneath the canopy top and find perches. They usually fly close to the ground for no more than 400 m (a quarter mile).

Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

Wild turkeys prefer to walk or run and often the only time they will fly all day will be to and from their roost tree. Like all fowl type birds which are all strong runners; pheasants, quail, grouse, jungle fowl; they're relatively weak fliers and after a short burst to get off the ground and gain a little altitude like to glide.


But it doesnt explain why there werent jeeps with 50 cal machineguns or sam enplacements around abquaiq


Spartans about to lose to ASU.


CH, sbw, I'll be in Rochester for a conference in mid-March, I think the 18th through the 20th--as I'm on the board, I'm only free that Friday and Saturday, but could we meet up either of those days? It would be an honor! I don't think I have either of your emails, but perhaps Jane or others do. I'm lwhite the number four at unl dot edu. So ridiculous these efforts at confounding the unjust!

Art in Newport

Great game

Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma

Magic number = 4. Sorry Rich!

Art in Newport

ASU wins!

jim nj




Barred from the paracels maybe.

Another Bob

Amom, I do have an autoimmune disease. I am highly skeptical about Gundry and the lectin thing. But since it’s harmless to try, I might.

How long does one need to trial this before the effects should be apparent? Does it need CRP numbers to ”prove”, or should I expect symptom reduction?


"Ready For Some Football!"

Not me. Boycotting nfl again LOL


I think some of the communities noted for their longevity may have flawed birth record keeping. Their diets in any event are very diverse. The asai as I recall live on the beef and blood from their cattle herds. Some of the Greek communities, largely on fish, fruit and vegetables. In some marriage takes place late, which rather cancels out the notion of children born to those with genetic disease and intermarriage is common--in other words, smallish communities with similar genetic inheritance and a smaller chance of those with dreadful inherited diseases adding to the gene pool.

I'm with Iggy in the sense that--like climate--there are so many variables it's probably not a great idea to simply look at the diets of the communities and figure that's the answer.


Masai--not asai.


You aint never provided any so I'm thinkin he prolly aint got any.

His book is FULL of citations. Me not providing them is because I'm not doing that for you with my time just because you think he's wrong, not because there's no science. You get the book, you read the primary science, you decide for yourself.

I am most certainly not making scurrilous accusations about Longo, and you are inaccurate to say so. I said nothing about him directing or profiting from his foundation, though since you bring it up, it does fund his work, so he obviously does. Dr.J can tell us what not having to apply to the NIH for funding every few years would do for his quality of life.

Longo donating to the foundation that funds his work does not indicate any kind of moral superiority over Steve Gundry.

Nor does giving his money to the foundation that funds his work mean he is right about eating fish --or goat, or lamb--instead of liver, or that Gundry is wrong about the role lectins play in autoimmune illnesses either.

And it most certainly does not mean Gundry pulled his lectin theory out of thin air, as you seem to think he did.

Really Ig--you think this guy has spent his life taking care of dying children, operating at all hours of the day and night, mastering immunology in addition to the most difficult field of cardiac surgery, and then decides he's going to cook up some theory where you can't eat hardly anything, so he can sell diet books???

That a book eliminating most of everything people know and love to eat will be a best seller???

You are who has made scurrilous accusations about somebody, not me.


jim nj

Sounds good when the truth is that they don't have the balls to fire on one of our destroyers, particularly in waters the rest of the world deems as international.

Face saving jive.


No apparently a deleted snippet from the first post credits, in ironman teases the hulk (no surprise)spiderman (which makes the snafu with sony awkward) and mutants.


The clain is not clear cut:



Vietnam and taiwan also claim jurisdictiom

Captain Hate

I'm with Iggy in the sense that--like climate--there are so many variables it's probably not a great idea to simply look at the diets of the communities and figure that's the answer.

The science is settled; a trace gas causes diabetes.

Catsmeat, email sent.


We'll see if I decoded that email, too.


jim nj


Interesting article. Covers recent island taking exercises in the Pacific.

I didn't realize that Marine Recon units do HALO jumps. These exercises look nothing like WWII island hopping.

jim nj


I took umbrage at the use of "expels" same as you. More like "escorted" or "sailed along with."


I am home!

Great family get-together.

Big news: one of my nieces who lives in Cincinnati, her husband won an EMMY AWARD for an ap he wrote for a network he works for. How about THAT!

My sister who went to France this summer had fantastic pictures of Normandy.

My nephew the iron worker has been working on a project with Japanese engineers. They had a Chinese guy come for some reason and my nephew said those Japanese REALLY don't like the Chinese. LOL!

My nephew the art teacher got a commission for an artsy monument/sign encouraging education, installed in the small town where he teaches. My sister (his mother) had a bunch of pictures where it looked like about 500 townspeople and students showed up for the unveiling and dedication.

Lots of fun talk about old movies, family reminiscences, geneology, etc.

Great Mexican food! I brought half home because the portions were so big.


Yay, kk, great news. Congrats


Ivanka Trump posted the link to this article, which was retweeted by the President.


An excellent explanation of why we still have energy companies in Venezuela.


It's good news Saturday for KK and MM!


AB, sorry--I can't answer your question about how long it would take to see a response, because I have no idea.
I don't think you'd need to get blood work if you have some symptoms (that would hopefully lessen) that you can monitor--achey joints, IBS stuff, skin rash.

You might like to browse this gal's site:


This gal describes her symptoms improving--she had FIVE autoimmune diseases.


Ig, you might want to give that a read. I promise you, that woman doesn't think Garvey is selling snake oil.



I don’t want to get into your fight, but since you don’t need to go on a diet, why do you care? Frankly I can’t believe how helpful Amom is. I think it’s so kind of her. She certainly has helped me.

It’s all just info. Ignore it if you don’t like it.


Wonderful miss marple.


I was Type 1 diabetic at 51 years old AND had lupus, mixed connective tissue disease, osteomalcacia, psoriasis, chronic kidney failure, Raynaud’s syndrome, Sjögren’s Syndrome, fibromyalgia, neuropathy and TMJ. These, in addition to sleep/wake disorder my whole life–it was the icing on my proverbial cake.

I cannot tell you the despair I felt at my diagnoses. Doctors prescribed all kinds of drugs to try to put my lupus in remission. That never happened. With Sjögren’s there is no spit, tears or snot. The damage to my teeth from no saliva was the most devastating. I never had a cavity my whole life and in April 2018, I had to have all of my bottom teeth pulled.
My lupus was so bad, I was losing my ability to walk and my muscle was wasting away. I was spending days at a time in bed trying to cope with the pain and trying to wrap my head around my failing body. I had to have a case manager help me map out a future requiring long term care...

...I am grateful for Dr. Gundry’s research. His discoveries saved me where no other medical professional could. With the support of several Plant Paradox groups on Facebook, this journey was daunting but completely doable.




This is an article about what President Trump has done for Historically Black Colleges. The President retweeted te link with the comment "My great honor!"

I watched the speech he gave this week and it was quite good, and he seemed to be well-received.


Retweeted by the President with the coment "Thank you!" Link goes to an article by the Wisconsin GOP

So awesome to see all of these college students mobilizing this early for @realDonaldTrump and Republicans! #LeadRighthttps://t.co/j48CtYD5sO

— Ronna McDaniel (@GOPChairwoman) September 14, 2019
Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

You compared Longo to the Clintons. Does it get any more scurrilous?

The createcures foundation does research on longevity. What research does Gundry do with his proceeds? What separation from the proceeds does he have? I simply pointed out Gundry has a conflict of interest that Longo has at least placed some separation for himself from.
And the fact remains Longo's proceeds produce actual science. Where is Gundry's? It's all in his footnotes. OK, I'll order it up and hope to be proven wrong but I do remember more than one review following his footnotes and finding little support and often contradictions.

--Really Ig--you think this guy has spent his life taking care of dying children, operating at all hours of the day and night, mastering immunology in addition to the most difficult field of cardiac surgery, and then decides he's going to cook up some theory where you can't eat hardly anything, so he can sell diet books???--

I pointed out before that Linus Pauling, one of the great scientists of the 20th century went bonkers on the quackery of megavitamins for a long time so Gundry's credentials and good works are of no probative value and constitute essentially an appeal to authority.

As to the Masai blue zone; I never heard of it because it doesn't exist. The average lifespan of the Masai is something like 50.
The claim was they ate nothing but meat, blood and dairy and had no heart disease.
That apparently isn't quite the whole story either. Same with the Inuit.



I have psoriasis on my shins which has gottne pretty bad over the last 3 years, and I just became aware that there is such a thing as psoriatic arthritis, which I believe I have.

Many thanks for the link to that Gundry book and the gal's web site. I think I will try that diet.

jim nj



So china claims the paracels because it can?


Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki

--Ig, you might want to give that a read. I promise you, that woman doesn't think Garvey is selling snake oil.--

What was her diet previously? She went on a ketogenic diet and stayed in ketosis. How do we know that isn't what put her in remission?
How do we know she doesn't have some rare genetic defect that makes her a 1 in 1000 or 1,000,000 case? We don't, which is why anecdotes are not science.
When my wife was sick and I was looking into alternatives I could have posted a thousand testimonials of people with cancer who claimed they were cured or put in remission by hair analysis and pancreatic enzymes and drinking Drano to balance their blood ph or not eating sugar and a thousand other quack remedies.
They weren't.

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