That Big Debate Last Night

America was undoubtedly riveted by the Biden-Sanders debate. FWIW, Biden seems to have responded well to a mix of rest and Adderall. Oh, I say that - he might have just been hopped up on Sudafed. The old SudaFed. Worked for me!

Bernie stuck to hammering his fifty-year old solutions to the current crisis, which made him seem even more unplugged than usual. A line from his closing statement stuck with me (and NO, I'm not going to look it up. My memory is MY truth!). His gist: To address the coronavirus crisis we must address what is wrong with America. Why are we propping up oil companies when 500,000 people are sleeping under bridges?

Biden came off as a guy with actual executive branch experience. Bernie came off as a guy with fifty years experience in freshman dorm bull sessions. (Yes, AOC is his inevitable heir.)

At one point Bernie was bemoaning the idea that the Fed would be giving banks an additional trillion in liquidity at a time when something bad is happening to someone else somewhere else (Was it a cat stuck up a tree? Maybe!). Biden snorted another Sudafed and explained that absent bank loans a lot more cats would get stuck up trees. Or something... hmm... Didn't I read that confusion is one coronavirus symptom? Either Joe or I should get tested.

GROAN: Here we go.

Bernie Sanders: (30:29)
But to answer your question where we are right now, we need to stabilize the economy, but we can’t repeat what we did in 2008. Joe voted for that. I voted against it. Because we have got to do more than save the banks or the oil companies. Our job right now is to tell every working person in this country, no matter what your income is, you are not going to suffer as a result of this crisis of which you had no control.

Ilia Calderón: (30:56)
Vice President Biden.

Joe Biden: (30:56)
Had those banks all gone under, all those people Bernie says he cares about would be in deep trouble. Deep, deep trouble. All those little folks… we’d have gone out of business… they’d find themselves in the position where they would lose everything that they had in that bank, whether it was $10 or $300 or a savings account. This was about saving an economy, and it did save the economy, and the banks paid back and they paid back with interest. I agree with Bernie, some of them should have gone to jail. That was the big disagreement I had in terms of bailing out, but the question was, they paid back. In addition to that, also part of that was bailing out the automobile industry, saving thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs over time. He voted against that as well.

BRING ON THE DANCING UNICORNS: The Times only glances at the absurdity of Bernie's ideas on health care and the coronavirus:

In an early barb directed at Mr. Biden, Mr. Sanders said it would take a direct confrontation with the insurance and pharmaceutical industries to remedy the situation, including enacting his proposal for a “Medicare for all”-style system that he has championed.

“Do we have the guts to take on the health care industry, some of which is funding the vice president’s campaign?” Mr. Sanders asked.

But Mr. Biden pushed back aggressively on the notion that Mr. Sanders’s signature proposal could mitigate the virus, invoking Europe’s hardest-hit country.

“With all due respect to Medicare for all, you have a single-payer system now in Italy,” he said, arguing that such a system “would not solve the problem.”

Well, yes. Biden's actual quote was more forceful:

With all due respect to Medicare for all, you have a single-payer system in Italy. It doesn’t work there. It has nothing to do with Medicare for all. That would not solve the problem at all. 

Left unremarked: Bernie's Medicare For All financing pipe dream includes using (low) Medicare reimbursement rates for hospitals and their workers. No one takes that seriously, yet Bernie rattles on like this:

We’re spending so much money, and yet we are not even prepared for this pandemic. How come we don’t have enough doctors? How come hospitals in rural areas are shutting down? 

Well, how will paying doctors and hospitals less bring out more supply and keep rural hospitals open, hmm?

Comments

[hrtshpdbox]

First. Stop the madness.

[hrtshpdbox]

Group hug, everybody!

[Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma]

Willowed:

NEW from @MittRomney:

"Every American adult should immediately receive $1,000 to help ensure families and workers can meet their short-term obligations and increase spending in the economy."

BRILLIANT SINCE NO ONE IS GOING TO STORES AND MALLS AND THE FUCKING STORES, RESTAURANTS AND BARS ARE CLOSED. IDIOT!

[hrtshpdbox]

People should go to stores and malls and restaurants and bars, which should all stay open.
Old folks should probably try to stay at home and mingle less often than usual.

[Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma]

Just got an email for additional free play money at the casino in Gulfport for this week. LOLGF

[hrtshpdbox]

Old folks should probably try to stay at home and mingle less often than usual.

For a week or two, anyway, just to be on the safe side.

[Captain Hate]

If they're curtailing all elective surgeries, that includes abortions amirite?

[Buckeye]

Abortions aren’t taking any beds used to keep people alive CH.

[MissMarple2]

I am trying to encourage daughter to refinance house and possibly car as well.

It could be a significant amount of money each month for her.

[Jane]

hrtshpdbox,

DEFINE "old folks" - and be very careful!

[KevlarKid]

Disinfecting wipes recipe. Effective for filling in supply gaps and keep older folks out of the stores.

https://wellnessmama.com/204701/disinfecting-wipes/

we use this recipe. spare the wipes and sanitizer.

[Jack Lillywhite]

No Nasters. Jack doesn’t think postponement will work. I Agree.

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/jack-nicklaus-doesnt-believe-masters-will-be-played-year?utm-tags=golf1304000&mi_u=B2C2F580-3EC4-4227-9F04-46E133969733

[Jack Lillywhite]

s/b Masters.....of course....

[JimNorCal]

Who follows Trump?
PLBlog notes that this is VP Pence's opportunity to shine

the article is crappy but that point is correct

[peter]

If your tits or cojones are dragging on the floor, you're probably old folks.

[KevlarKid]

Dear Mitt: STFU. Thank you.
-American Taxpayer

[clarice]

My exercise studio is closing at 5 tonight and all day tomorrow until Md can decide whether it is a "gym" which must stay closed. URGH

[rich]

>>>The fear mongering needs to stop.

Posted by: Buckeye | March 16, 2020 at 11:48 AM<<<

indeed!

[Neo]

"American health officials declared a N1H1 public health emergency on April 26, 2009," yet sought to downplay the announcement, calling it “standard operating procedure." Barack Obama didn't declare a national emergency until October, after millions of people in the United States were already infected, at least 20,000 were hospitalized, and over a thousand had died. 12,469 people died during the outbreak.

By the Obama timeline, Trump didn’t have to declare a national emergency until June.

[GUS]

ABORTION IS HEALTH CARE. And if the botched abortion results in a LIVE BIRTH, the ABORTIONIST MAGICALLY becomes the WOMYNS Doctor, who can help her decide whether or not the CHILD NEEDS TO DIE.

I believe the WOMYN already decided. ONE PERSON ONE VOTE....RIGHT???

[rich]

the md gov ordered mandatory closing of bars etc starting at 5pm. carry out only.

something new i noticed was a line both at the drive through atms and the walk up atm at the bank.

[henry]

Hmmm.

Josh Greenbaum @josheac
28m

Well, there is one sporting event that's still taking place, and it has everything you'd ever want: endurance, athleticism, drama, a blended female/male field, and cute dogs too. Yes, the annual Iditarod sled dog race is on. A great antidote to #COVID19 #cabinfever @IditarodKTVA

[KevlarKid]

secured 1 month emergency pharma supplies through insurance company override. delivered today.

[rich]

the scolds finding their inner benito will find that problematic henry.

[hrtshpdbox]

Jane, I'm 63 and I wish I had the stupid thing just to get it over with, it's just the flu and probably not worth suspending civilization for. I don't have much in the way of other conditions; if I did, I'd try to stay away from other people. A little bit. If it got me anyway, it's my time, y'know?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

No rain for two months then 3 straight days of it.
Now snow. Lots o snow.
Enough to knock the power out.
Where is that locust horde again?

[Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma]

Research from a laboratory-grown copy of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes the COVID-19 illness shows that heat affects the virus and impacts its behavior, a top pathologist said new research has shown. But other infectious disease experts aren't yet convinced.

“In cold environments, there is longer virus survival than warm ones,” Hong Kong University pathology professor John Nicholls told AccuWeather exclusively.

Nicholls and colleagues from a team at Sun Yat-sen University in Guangzhou, China, previously produced a study, which was published in February and has yet to be peer-reviewed, noting the effect of heat. Their research is based on one of the world’s first lab-grown copies of SARS-CoV-2.

“Temperature could significantly change COVID-19 transmission,” the authors note in the study. They also pointed out that the “virus is highly sensitive to high temperature.”

[KevlarKid]

we got lotsa toadies here, Ig. ;)

[rich]

>>>Group hug, everybody!

Posted by: hrtshpdbox | March 16, 2020 at 12:16 PM<<<

hugs!

bet that will be outlawed soon.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

A couple of high risk geezers wanted to know if I'd go to Safeway to pick up their order which I was happy to do.
They just told me Safeway would deliver. In the snow. We'll see.
Great big fluffy flakes coming down.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

Now when you say toadies...

[joan]

The manager of the studio where I go for yoga and tai chi was on the Diamond Princess cruise ship that had to stay off the coast of California for so long.

Small world. :)

[sbwaters]

“virus is highly sensitive to high temperature.”

Given a choice between the virus and all the hot air about the virus ...

[KevlarKid]

hrtshpdbx: you pretty much got this pandemic dicked seein how yer like me, fulla piss and vinegar. comes in handy. :D -Kev

[hrtshpdbox]

In betting parlors, odds to be the next president is now even money on Trump and Biden, a tie. At 25 to 1 there's a three-way tie between Bernie, Mike Pence, and Hillary.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

This guy at Rabobank is usually pretty sensible;
Rabobank: "Markets Must Now Accept: This Is War"

[hrtshpdbox]

Kev, it's good to know there's fellow "bring it!!" renegades around, I've noticed a few here.

[JimNorCal]

rich 12:53 something new i noticed was a line both at the drive through atms and the walk up atm at the bank.

Hmmm. Is something going on? Are people stockpiling cash due to the gov't shutdown of the economy?

item 18
https://donsurber.blogspot.com/2020/03/highlights-of-news_16.html
DYNUZ reported, “As the stock market was having its worst day in 30 years on Thursday, customers at a Bank of America branch in Midtown Manhattan, the financial heart of New York, were lining up to take cash out of their accounts — sometimes tens of thousands of dollars at a time.

“So many people sought huge sums that the bank branch, at 52nd Street and Park Avenue, temporarily ran out of $100 bills to fulfill large withdrawals, according to three people familiar with the branch’s operations. The shortage hit after a rash of requests for as much as $50,000, said two people who witnessed the rush.”

[rich]

Posted by: Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA | March 16, 2020 at 01:14 PM

it was kinda odd to see that sort of traffic in the early afternoon. i tried to get cash back on a debit card purchase this weekend and was unable to.

[Neo]

NYTimes:

McConnell Has a Request for Veteran Federal Judges: Please Quit

[JimNorCal]

'box: "In betting parlors, odds to be the next president is now even money on Trump and Biden, a tie"

I say: take their money.

[Extraneus]

They also pointed out that the “virus is highly sensitive to high temperature.”

I was just looking at a bird migration map the other day, and it seems that Spring is 2-3 weeks early this year.

[henry]

Jim_sunnyvale, I wouldn't trust Cuomo or Deblasio to allow continued access to bank accounts either. They are more likely to "share" with your neighbors.

[Jane]

hrtshpdbox,

I agree, it's an easy way to go. I'm a bit of an isolationist anyway so it's not bothering me much so far. Plus I love the lack of traffic.

[rich]

Posted by: Extraneus | March 16, 2020 at 01:18 PM

my allergies have been kicking up so all i can say is bring on the global warming.

waiting for some wokescolds to start pestering me.

[Barbara]

Well, Zerohedge sure isn't doing its happy dance.

As far as warm weather is concerned, it looks like we're in for a cold spell for the rest of March. But then they predicted rain for this morning and the sun is shining. It's still cold though — by Southern California standards.

Praying for a heat wave.🌞

[Captain Hate]

In betting parlors, odds to be the next president is now even money on Trump and Biden, a tie.

If the paste eating flatliner keeled over tomorrow, would I automatically win, assuming Trump prevails against whoever, or is the bet voided?

[rich]

Posted by: Barbara | March 16, 2020 at 01:27 PM

zh has just different amplitudes of doom.

[rich]

voided would be my guess. field to win over trump wouldn't.

[caro]

Ext, yup, our spring is 2-3 weeks early. Ski resorts closed with a combination of no new snow and the CV closings mandated . My son’s small restaurant impacted bigly losing nearly a month of business and still having to pay very high rent. (OL, feel your pain, too.)

We are now lucky to have our place in St. George (s. Utah). Leaving Wednesday so we can play golf even if the other facilities are closed.

Trying to decide if we should take all our TP supply with us. We didn’t stock up when the panic started.

[Captain Hate]

ZH articles like that give me a bad headache.

[JimNorCal]

"After Being Discovered Wasted and Naked in a Hotel Room With a Gay Male Escort and Bags of Crystal Meth, Andrew Gillum Says He Will Withdraw From Public Life…"

Like ... to a jail cell?

[hrtshpdbox]

CH, if you bet Trump and he wins, even if he does it by only allowing Republicans to leave their houses on election day, you'd still collect. And if you bet Biden and he immediately announced that he's decided to roam the forests spreading apple seeds instead of running for president, you'd still lose.

[henry]

this needs yakity sax in the background.

CNBC @CNBC
2m

Watch live: New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio holds a press conference on coronavirus outbreak

https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1239606327476969472

[Captain Hate]

My son’s small restaurant impacted bigly losing nearly a month of business and still having to pay very high rent.

I hope small business people band together to get behind a primary challenger for every governor who's made them absorb the maximum economic pain in this pandemic.

[hrtshpdbox]

But to clarify, if you bet Trump and Joe opted to be Joey Appleseed (or keeled over from COVID), and Trump went on to beat the Hillary/Buttigieg ticket, of course you'd still win the Trump bet.

[henry]

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
24s

Just had a very good tele-conference with Nations’s Governors. Went very well. Cuomo of New York has to “do more”.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

That wasn't a Zerohedge article.
It was from a guy at Rabobank who they regularly publish a weekly or so message he sends out.
He's not an RT stooge or a prog and almost always has a pretty sensible reality based take.
There is no doubt there is massive economic disruption.
Question is, twofold; how long will the disruption last and how will things snapback.
No one really knows the answer to either one.

[hrtshpdbox]

Making sure that small businesses (like family-owned restaurants) get a lifeline, and that those funds are fairly and wisely distributed, will definitely be an important part of the clean-up.

Trump's Administration is offering up $50 billion in relief packages for small business owners being fiscally impacted by the novel coronavirus.

https://www.kfyrtv.com/content/news/President-Trump-offering-50-billion-to-businesses-impacted-by-COVID-19-568787851.html

[henry]

@pzf

BREAKING NEWS: Canada will close the border to foreigners.

[sbwaters]

Quebec?

[Captain Hate]

the Hillary/Buttigieg ticket

I'm sure I'm not the only one who assumes this, or something other than those two sputtering geezers last night making complete fools out of themselves, will emerge from Milwaukee.

[hrtshpdbox]

henry, I wonder what they mean by "foreigners", they have no neighbor to the north and to the south it's just us and we're not forei....hey, wait a minute!

[rich]

just what the nation needs ...

[henry]

Canada will make some exceptions to the closure of its borders, including for U.S. citizens.

CNBC @CNBC
3m

Canada closing borders to non-citizens because of coronavirus cnb.cx/2TUkCNr

https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1239609153171095553

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

A test to see if this NWS loop is linkable.

[KevlarKid]

"...dis gon' be a long walk ennit?"
-Buddy Guy, So.Bend,IN 1974

Aint That Cold- Joe Louis Walker

[henry]

electronic money leaves a trail... for the government and the ad agencies. Of course they spread this rumor.

“WHO did not say banknotes would transmit COVID-19, nor have we issued any warnings or statements about this,” a WHOspokesperson said in an email. “We do recommend that people wash their hands regularly.”

CNBC @CNBC
1m

Electronic payments look more appealing as people fear cash could spread coronavirus

https://twitter.com/CNBC/status/1239610166968016898

[Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma]

I believe there is a $$ limit on ATM withdrawals per day.

[MissMarple2]

Ran to the liquor store to get wine and beer. They were out of my daughter's favorite beer. Clerk had on a mask, first I have seen around here.

[Captain Hate]

What's her favorite beer?

[Neo]

Class-action lawsuit blames China for coronavirus

https://www.wflx.com/2020/03/13/class-action-lawsuit-blames-china-coronavirus/

This was inevitable

[Jack Lillywhite]

Italians discuss Coronavirus. Subtitles help. Worth listening to. Hat tip Destaandard of Belgium.

https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20200316_04891123

[rich]

probably should head into the salt mines today but really tempted to stay home (for the next week) ...

[MissMarple2]

Captain Hate,

Killian's Irish Red.

Probably not up to your standards, I know.

[lyle]

Spring is 2-3 weeks early this year.

It sure is here.

[KevlarKid]

"this needs yakity sax in the background."

and the Benny Hill soundtrack and trailer playing on the green screen behind the video highlights of that dungfest.

[Neo]

Typical New Yorker whine
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trump-truth-and-the-mishandling-of-the-coronavirus-crisis
I guess they don’t think they will be around to complain afterwards

[KevlarKid]

how did the "Trump said the virus is a hoax" meme get started? CNN?

[hrtshpdbox]

There's a casino about 20 miles up the road from me, and I've only been there once (as casinos go, it's decidedly second-rate), but I almost feel like going over there just because they're determined to stay open.

https://www.pennlive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/hollywood-casino-to-remain-open-amid-concerns-of-coronavirus.html

[joan]

They've closed the studio for a few weeks -- so difficult to be disciplined and exercise on my own. I've always walked, with our dogs of course, but like the yoga and tai chi classes.

Here is a dog video that made me smile this morning -- really cute, especially if you're a dog lover.

https://tinyurl.com/vnf7th4

[Captain Hate]

I'm pretty much a beer snob but I won't trash what other people like. I've got just over 100 bottles cellared or in my beer fridge so I'm set for a while even if more draconian measures happen.

[Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma]

Senator Rand Paul
1 min ·

Today I’m calling on the IRS to move our tax filing deadline from April 15 to July 15, and to waive any interest and fees for late payment. This will allow those who owe money not to have to send it during our current situation.

[hrtshpdbox]

100 bottles, none of them IPA's, right CH? I've drank the attached (once) and it tasted vaguely of seaweed to me (I'm thinking that's not what they're intending).

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/2681/14712/

[Barbara]

Joan,

We used to do that when were kids. Swing up over the leaf pile which below an edge like a ha–ha, then jump into the leaves. It was so much fun!

[Barbara]

Today I’m calling on the IRS to move our tax filing deadline from April 15 to July 15, and to waive any interest and fees for late payment.

Bravo, Rand Paul. It's the only sensible thing to do. If the IRS refuses, could the President do this by executive order?

[Captain Hate]

No IPAs is indeed correct, box. I've never had Old Chub but the Wee Heavy Scottish Ale style is one of my faves. Maybe you just don't like the style because it should have a sweet malty taste although it's possible they overdid the smoked peat flavor.

[Marlene]

I ventured to Publix and it was very busy. I wanted to get more coffee and eggs. The paper products aisle is empty,also the Lysol and Clorox items. Baby wipes are gone. My Publix has a woman at the entrance wiping down each cart. Wine and beer are fully stocked.

[MissMarple2]

If you are tired of the hysteria and negativity, here's a podcast I watch which has an upbeat mood. Caution, he does use strong language:

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1vAGRBzZMmDGl?t=4m3s

I am unfollowing the fear peddlers o Twitter.

[Extraneus]

Here's a map of the so-called Spring Leaf Index, which maps how Spring is springing. The color code on the bottom shows the ranges of #days early to #days late. (Click for full size.)

(Click to open.)

[henry]

I'm curious what they have the guard doing.

Coronavirus Update: @pzf
12m

BREAKING NEWS: NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR MOBILIZES THE NATIONAL GUARD.

[Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma]

Lufthansa just announced they are shutting down.

[Captain Hate]

DeWine should send the National Guard to Kent State just to trigger lots of REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Extraneus]

From the link:

Spring leaf out continues to spread up the middle of the country, three to four weeks earlier than a long-term average (1981-2010) in some locations. Washington, DC and New York City are 24 days early, Nantucket is 30 days early, Louisville, KY is 2 days early and St. Louis, MO is 3 days early.

Spring leaf out has also arrived in parts of the West. Spring leaf out is on time to 2 days late in San Diego, LA, and San Francisco, CA and 10 days early in Portland, OR and Seattle, WA. Parts of northern Texas and Oklahoma are on time to one week late.

Spring bloom has also arrived in several Southeast and Southwest states. Spring bloom is between 1 day and 3 weeks early.

...

In parts of the Southeast, this year's spring is the earliest in the 39-year record (dark green).

[hrtshpdbox]

One of my daughter's friends went to Kent State. I asked him what the school was known for, and he had no idea. Then again, I also met a kid from Hibbing, MN who thought the town's claim to fame was their high school football team, and had never heard of Bob Dylan let alone that he lived in Dylan's home town. Kids today.

[Old Lurker]

That $50B relief for small businesses? I call BS.

"Trump's Administration is offering up $50 billion in relief packages for small business owners being fiscally impacted by the novel coronavirus. Effective immediately, the SBA will begin providing economic loans in affected states and territories," Trump said.

-----

What the struggling Mom & Pop does not need is another loan that has to be paid back with interest "later". The loan shark might lend you more cash for another week, but you are still going to get your knees broken when the vig is due.

My partner and I were talking this morning about how to respond to pleas for help from tenants. What is obvious is that while a factory might not produce widgets for a month or two but then the backlog of demand for widgets will allow them to catch up later (in which case a loan might help), as I said last week dinners not sold, nails not done, hair not cut, and drycleaning not needed because offices are closed is simply cash flow that will never be recovered by those tenants. So while we often in normal times help a tenant by allowing them to reduce rent for a month or two for whatever the reason is at the time, the standard formula is to "get it back" once the business is back on track. Accrued rent or borrowed money will just prolong the inevitable when those moneys become due since they are already paying all they can afford before COVID came along. So if I want that tenant to still be there when this passes, I have to take the hit for him so he does not jump off a bridge. If I don't like the tenant for whatever reason, this is a good time to allow him to fail.

But Gummint Loans are not the ticket for the people Trump says he wants to help.

Oh. And so nice of the gummint to pay me <1% for my savings so they can lend it back to my tenants at 3.75%.

BS for the masses.

[lyle]

Extinction Rebellion DC cancels their big die-in due to CV.

NOT the Bee.

[Captain Hate]

Kent's really a nice place and a good school. It's mostly hippie codgers around here that won't let the shooting go, including lots of Plain Dealer tools.

[henry]

this is getting nuts.

Coronavirus Update: @pzf
5m

BREAKING NEWS: San Francisco Bay Area counties are expected to announce a “shelter in place” orde telling people to stay in their homes for up to 3 weeks.

Population of 6.7 million people!

[lyle]

https://twitchy.com/sarahd-313035/2020/03/16/bulwark-contributor-molly-jong-fast-has-just-discovered-federalism-and-shes-not-really-sure-what-to-do-right-now/

The imbecility, it burns.