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April 23, 2020

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Neo

Home
https://youtu.be/3xt58OVnmXU

Threadkiller

When did we become a nation filled with fear?

When the Hecklers’ Veto prevented honest debate over whether or not the Founding Fathers left a loophole so that The Commander in Chief of The United States Armed Forces could have allegiance to more than one sovereign nation.

Captain Hate

When did we become a nation filled with fear?

We've always had people who'd rather be ruled than deal with scary freedom. Fortunately they still seem to be outnumbered but we'll never be rid of 'em. A good argument can be made that the post 9/11 bureaucracy enabled the FISA abuses. Rand Paul and his nutty father are pretty much disasters on national security issues but they're right about the undesirable tradeoffs of freedom for safety that happen when the nation is frightened.

henry

Answering the bell, in a Skinner Box if the people rse keeps citing have a say in it.

lyle

Gender Transitioning Governor Karl "Gretchen" Whitmer Awards Contract To Trace Infected Citizens To Democrat Activist Group

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=386944

lyle

Since morbidity seems to be the order of the day, I let my curiosity get the best of me and clicked on TM’s Politico link. (Well, that and my selflessness in taking one for the JOM team.) No one should be the slightest bit surprised at this:

What if instead of ushering in a new era of respect for science—including the obvious truth that most policy questions around science involve mixed evidence and relative probabilities rather than absolute certainties—the next several years are marked by a distorted, dishonest, told-you-so debate over the pandemic? What if instead of launching a new season of public interest, a weak economy leaves little money or political will to solve long-deferred problems like climate change? What if this cataclysm makes us even more selfish and short-term in our thinking?

You’re welcome. 😬

The Infamous Ignatz

--When the Hecklers’ Veto prevented honest debate over whether or not the Founding Fathers left a loophole so that The Commander in Chief of The United States Armed Forces could have allegiance to more than one sovereign nation.--

We should start the calendar over in 2008 with BO/AO since that seems to have been the pivotal moment since the Resurrection.

Captain Hate

Vote-by-mail advocates worry time is running out to prepare: “If it's not rolled out properly, we will lose public confidence in the results of the election.”

This is how DeWine lost me forever. There is no way the primary in March shouldn't have happened with "social distancing", the efficacy of which I'm very skeptical about but it's his rule for essential activities. Following his logic, voting is a non essential activity and doing it by mail just adds extra steps in which the integrity can either be diminished or, much less likely, stay the same. Why create avoidable problems?

Tom R

When did we become a nation filled with fear?

I think more people are being pragmatic than being fearful.

Threadkiller

2007, Ig. ;-)

James D.

the obvious truth that most policy questions around science involve mixed evidence and relative probabilities rather than absolute certainties

Because our political leaders and the media have done such a good job talking about mixed evidence and relative probabilities in their decision-making and coverage of the pandemic, right?

It's been "Science says to stay home, shut the eff up and stop whining about losing your jobs, businesses and 401k's, you deplorable morons" 24/7, from where I sit.

clarice

What about drive in balloting? You show your id and get your ballot, move down the line and drop it in filled out.

The Infamous Ignatz

Glad you took that as it was intended TK. :)

James D.

I think more people are being pragmatic than being fearful.

I think you're working from a very different dictionary than I am, if you consider what we've seen the past six weeks "pragmatic."

lyle

Science says to stay home, shut the eff up and stop whining about losing your jobs, businesses and 401k's, you deplorable morons

Psst, James. You left off, “or we’ll arrest you.”

cindyk

Welp!!! Looks like my Montana governor has caved. We reopen on Sunday. Not surprised. Bullock is running for Senate against the incumbent Danes and would have been beaten like a drum if he extended the stay at home order. We leave from AZ and go home to Flathead Lake May 1. There is a sign on Finley Point, the peninsula we live on that extends 7 miles into the lake, that says newcomers have to quarantine for two weeks. We live at the end of the point and trust me...no one is close enough to us to quarantine against. But we are grateful to be heading home😃

Threadkiller

LOL, Ig.

I had to decide whether or not to post a timeline that may place the actual start date in 2003 when Orin Hatch started the process that Dick Durban utilized to conjure up Anchor Baby Obama’s “eligibility.”

Old Lurker

Lyle "Psst, James. You left off, “or we’ll arrest you.”

...Unless you are a member of our club and exempt from those laws we wrote for the little people.

rse

Well, henry, instead of citing I will start a "top this' game where we fess up on the oldest thing we have found in our pantry as we 'clean up'.

I thought I had mine pretty current, but yesterday I just knew I had a bag of lentils and my plan was to make gourmet's famous brown rice and lentil soup with chorizo I would fry up substituting for smoked sausage. Have to go with what's in frig, pantry, or basement freezer.

My family nags me when I shop so it's once a week. Period. See some sliced almonds and think "nice crunchy topping" next time I make a casserole. Best by July 2015. Ooops. Even though best by's have flexibility these days that was a bit much.

Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA

going in the right direction!!

"New York preliminary anti body test: over 13% random people on the street were already exposed to the virus"
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/23/new-york-antibody-study-estimates-13point9percent-of-residents-have-had-the-coronavirus-cuomo-says.html

Captain Hate

Good question, clarice. The road not taken but I would not complain about that. I suppose that a response would be that the codgers they spring from the old folks home to work at the polling places would be at risk but a flock of Karens would be willing to meddle in their place.

lyle

Great addendum, OL.

Old Lurker

Dead people can drive cars?

The Infamous Ignatz

—including the obvious truth that most policy questions around science involve mixed evidence and relative probabilities rather than absolute certainties—

Oh, hmm, mixed evidence, mere possibilities - meaning a wide array of possible solutions and even the idea something might not require solution.
So when say, long-deferred problems like climate change come up this dunderhead isn't going to call anyone who disagrees with him on the mixed evidence and relative probabilities or whether science has even established it's a problem, deferred or otherwise, he's going to thoughtfully consider their views rather than call them crazy science deniers who wants to kill all the chillrun. Sure he is.

Threadkiller


Dead people can drive cars?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a3iHI3kuV_E

D

Clarice:
Excellent idea.
Having worked the polls, I know exactly how that could be done.
JamesD:
Agree completely.
Pragmatic is going back to work after you have weighed the risks carefully.
Some posters have bought into the Dem prog playbook.
President Trump as a businessman wants the country open.
As a politician he has to give lip service to in this case unreliable science so I don’t believe this state of limbo will last much longer.
Today is the governor of New Jersey’s turn to whine.
Get your financial world in order or file for bankruptcy.
It is not our taxpayer money that will bail your Sorry rear-ends out.

clarice

Well, there's that problem, OL--but it could be overcome with a bit of work.

rse

Oh Ol.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249455/Gap-says-not-money-run-operations.html

The company stopped paying its $115 million rent for North America locations starting in April and is in talks to renegotiate or terminate leases .

Darn. I do like athleta leggings. Wonder if they are on sale too.

Porchlight

Great news cindyk! We have good friends in Missoula. Leftists of course. But they will be glad for the reopening, whether they admit it or not.

D

Cindy:
Now you have to make sure that Daines is re-elected and defeat Bullock.

Porchlight

Willowed:

He is quite convinced that the international student visa racket is at an end and is glad for it. That was a pleasant surprise.

Robin,

I couldn't sleep last night and was thinking about this. I applaud it as well. We have thousands of international students (cash cows). Imagine if those spots were filled by Americans. Texans, even. My kid might even be able to get into UT.


It wasn’t an experiment. It was intentional on the part of Fauxci and friends.

Completely agree, Buckeye.

rse

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249827/Luxury-hotel-group-biggest-beneficiary-coronavirus-loan-program-59-MILLION.html

This is ridiculous.

lyle

Our guv just announced a four-stage reopening plan starting May 1. I still don’t get the idea that this is all predicated on avoiding a new flood of WuFlu cases. With both our local hospital systems almost completely shut down, how is it we would not be able to handle them if they occur by quickly restaffing?

Extraneus

Sounds like they don't have an answer yet to the question: What makes your climate model better than the epidemiology models?

jimmyk

JimSC, that's for NY State. In NYC it's 21.2%. Lots of immune people who should be able to go back to work.

Which reminds of the other idiocy of the UI policy. In addition to businesses trying to get their employees to come back to work, there are a bunch of industries that have benefited from the shutdowns, or at least that need more people. But why would an unemployed person bother looking for such a job?

Jack is Back!

Boy, So. Georgia, Alabama all the way from NoLa to South Carolina getting hit with big storm system. Tornados also.

We are an hour or two south of it but the winds are picking up. No rain.

North of JAX and South of ATL.

Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA

If kk is around, I'd like to direct his attention to the PowerLine podcast on "Earth Day"
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/the-power-line-show-ep-182-earth-day-at-50-with-terry-anderson.php

About 24 or so minutes in there's a fascinating discussion of poverty on Native American Indian Reservations and how it might be possible to greatly improve things without a huge top heavy federal "Program"

btw, why does the US government administer reservations in trust for the tribes? An incendiary quote from the late 1800s on this podcast gives the legal basis for this effed up situation.

When I hear about awful conditions on Reservations I immediately get pulled in many directions. It's distressing... but what about casinos...are people advocating a Big Gov Program...who am I to act, shouldn't it be someone closer to the people? It's paralysis inducing. But now I have a glimmer of how progress could begin. If that path they're advocating seems like a good start.

henry

rse, a couple 25 year old cans of spam.

Narciso

Like scarlett said in the avengers that 'doesnt look like a party'

Captain Hate

I think more people are being pragmatic than being fearful.

I think you're working from a very different dictionary than I am, if you consider what we've seen the past six weeks "pragmatic."

Pragmatic means practical instead of idealistic. I think James is right that the practical thing was to not disrupt the economy instead of idealistically thinking you can save everyone.

MissMarple2

https://cnsnews.com/commentary/michael-w-chapman/arbp-vigano-pope-francis-teaching-blatant-heresy-terrible-blasphemy

Apparently bishops and cardinals are starting to speak out about Pope Che.

lyle

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/04/having_shifted_the_shutdown_goalposts_democrats_are_gutting_our_rights.html

There’s a video of TuCa coining the term, “flu d’ etat.” Marvelous.

Jack is Back!

In CoVid-19, what is the "d" for or represent?

Tom R

CH @ 4:11

Trump has never said his social distancing policy was idealistically trying to save everyone.

Pragmatic means being realistic and sensible which are rational actions. Fear tends to be irrational.

anonamom

mel, your 740 this am is not Birx referring to the Gates Foundation as her puppet master, but her using a term I've heard her use multiple times these past four weeks.

She refers to "gates to go through" rather than "bars we must reach" when she talks about what must be done to move forward.

D

MM:
They can speak out all they want about Pope Francis.
They have absolutely no power to remove him.
Who are these bishops and cardinals?
Where are they from and what is their agenda?
There is always a hidden agenda and an overt one.

MissMarple2

Courtesy of William A Siravo on Twitter:

D

Telling people they can’t buy seeds, closing down Wisconsin until May 24th,
and Illinois until late in May is fear based as well as craven disregard for the well being of your state’s citizens.
Both these goofs need to be recalled along with the Mish Bish.
They are drunk with power and settling scores.It has become personal and vindictive and very far from pragmatic.They also fear being blamed for four their deaths because they dropped the ball from the get-go.
That is the politics of fear.

MissMarple2

D,

Yes, they may have a hidden agenda.

BUT, one must also consider what Pope Francis' hidden agenda is as well. What he is saying is counter to what I have always been taught as either a Protestant or a Catholic.

I don't know the answer, but I am made uncomfortable by much of what Francis says.

D

Four should more.

henry

@repvernonjones

Yesterday, I announced my intentions to resign from my office. But shortly thereafter, the outpour of support I received was too great for me to ignore.

I will not allow the Democrats to bully me into submission. I will not let them win.

I will NOT resign.

#MAGA

https://twitter.com/repvernonjones/status/1253398909117960193?s=21

sbwaters

CH: instead of idealistically thinking you can save everyone.

FWEET! Moved goalposts. 10 yards. Repeat the down.

lyle

In case anyone was wondering (and trust me, I completely understand if you weren’t) why I, (as I think, the only JOM idahoan) haven’t commented on the Meridian, ID mom getting arrested on the playground, I (kind of) expected this:

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2020/04/23/do-it-mom-refusing-to-leave-a-closed-playground-asks-to-be-arrested-gets-her-wish-but-wait-theres-more/

Not only is she a Karen, apparently she’s also a rabid anti-vaxxer. So, there you have it.

D

MM:
You are uncomfortable, but so many people I know, mostly nuns and people in Church ministry love him. He is going to be around for a long time as most liberal Popes are. In this case you can’t fight the hierarchy.
It has been ingrained for centuries.

D

MM:
Only need to listen to the Pope in matters of faith and morals.
All the rest is just his opinion

lyle

I hasten to add, that if she had been sporting a neckbeard, I would have commented sooner. 😎

D

Good for Vernon Jones!
Stand up to the the progs !

Another Bob

“bishops and cardinals are starting to speak out about Pope Che”

It’s been happening since the beginning MM. Che is effectively a dictator and is unremovable. If the critics get too vocal, or might be gaining sone influence, they’re shuffled out of that position.

See what happened to Ray Burke.

MissMarple2

D,

Advice taken.

Now, if he would speak out on faith and morals, maybe I could do so. Seems like I rarely see him speaking about those subjects.

The Infamous Ignatz

--Only need to listen to the Pope in matters of faith and morals.--

Think I'll stick with Jesus.

henry

Scheduled for 5:00, until rescheduled.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/

lyle

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/04/protests-left-get-pass-while-conservatives-are-daniel-greenfield/

You got a problem with that, wingnut?

Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA

Ah! I see that jimmyk posted on the NYC antibodies numbers on the prev thread. still catching up.

btw, anyone who missed JiB's 12:11 on the prev thread is in for a treat if they go back. Excellent.

Buckeye

Early in this Covid fiasco I was fine with an effort to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system.

Now it appears we had a lot of smoke blown up our ass, and fear was used as a motivator.

That pisses me off.

I might get over it, but people who have lost their livelihood over this con job might not.

Won’t be the least bit surprised if a few go postal.

MissMarple2

Another Bob,

I was a convert and joined at the time that Benedict XVI was named. He subsequently resigned and I have never felt comfortable with Pope Francis.

D is a traditional Catholic who will go by the book on the papacy. I am a Protestant convert who simply cannot deal with some of his pronouncements, which I consider heretical. That's the way it goes, whether some nuns or Franciscan priests think Pope Francis is great.

lyle

https://lidblog.com/kill-bin-laden/

A clip from the Showtime documentary “The Longest War” reveals the CIA had an opportunity to kill Osama Bin Laden in the 1990s but were prevented from doing so by an order from President Bill Clinton. Not in the documentary but also true was that Bubba’s administration also had an opportunity to have Bin Laden handed over to the US, but that offer was stunted by Susan Rice.

Small world, huh?

Tom R

Considering that he is still alive after 6+ years, did Pope Benedict truly resign for health reasons?

lyle

https://issuesinsights.com/2020/04/23/covid-19-targets-blue-states-will-that-drive-an-exodus/

Dear You Know The Thing, it’s already happening to my state. In droves.

Threadkiller

I (kind of) expected this:

Pretty much what I figured as well.

Tom R

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/renowned-microbiologist-claims-wuhan-lab-did-absolutely-crazy-things-coronavirus

Does "crazy things" mean technical incompetence and/or gross negligence when dealing with lethal viruses?

The Mail notes that the professor works for Russia's Federal Research Center for Research and Development of Immunobiological Preparations - while Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, advised against speculation that the virus was manmade.

Wouldn't doing "crazy things" to create a new virus indicate COVID 19 was manmade?

Manuel Transmission

Speaking of Skinner boxes, the conversation a couple days ago about white rats reminded me of one of my humanities/social science electives I was admonished to take which was the 4hr version of Skinner psych taught by the dean of that kollege. So at the beginning of the lab portion of the course I was issued my very own rat ready for all the Skinner conditioning. Turns out that rat taught me more than almost any prof I had, at least outside the engineer shop. You see, that rat was very compliant with whatever I wanted. Compliant the way I am with any gummint dictates. As in FU, I’m outta here, I don’t GAS what you want, I have one objective and that is to depart this glass cylinder and nothing you dangle in front of me will change that, so FU again. Very educational!

Threadkiller
CH: instead of idealistically thinking you can save everyone. FWEET! Moved goalposts. 10 yards. Repeat the down.

Posted by: sbwaters | April 23, 2020 at 04:26 PM

I have read the exchange three times and I still don’t understand what you are pointing out.

lyle

Me, either, TK.

MissMarple2

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
10m
I will be having a White House Press Conference today at 5:45 P.M. Thank you!

Extraneus

I will NOT resign.

#MAGA

Heh. Let the games begin!

henry

MT, I had the thrill of watching the rats get zapped for my Mom’s dissertation. They smelled bad. (Thus no problems later when escorting them to the head chopping station).

Gentlejim

JiB,
The “d” in Covid-19 stands for disease.

Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA

*I* read the thread topic headers, so there! This is the reason why. You go, TM!

"Not only is the glass half-empty, its a damn specimen cup. Oy!"

Old Lurker

Henry, your Mom zapped hers? YL snapped their necks. Then sliced their brains onto slides. Something about zapping or gassing changing the brain cells making the science harder.

jimmyk

I have read the exchange three times and I still don’t understand what you are pointing out.

I can't speak for sbw, but I've been harping on the goalposts shifting from "We can't keep people from getting the virus, but we have to keep the hospitals from getting overwhelmed," to "We have to try to save everyone" (once it became clear the hospitals were not getting overwhelmed).

Pinandpuller

It’s altruistic Double Overtime and a Half.

Pinandpuller

Capital is consciously aware that racial diversity corrodes worker solidarity -- Amazon uses it as one of their metrics in an internal "unionization risk" dashboard.

https://twitter.com/anechoicmedia_/status/1253144576589783040?s=21

Captain Hate

Has Trump ever said anything about social distancing? He may have; it's an honest question.

Threadkiller

And I think it is playing on fear and not pragmatism that allowed those goalposts to get moved, Jimmy.

I didn’t see CH mention Trump, so that might be someone else playing with goalposts during the dialogue.

Jack Lillywhite

It was a coup to replace Benedict. No question since Cardinal Deneels of Belgium confessed in an article he wrote before he died. All led by the liberal/leftist/Commie wing of the curia. Deneels was like a strategist for the coup at the time. Of course, Maryrose and others will not accept this but it is what it is and you can measure the outcomes in the number of people who have left the church.

How can you tell? Sunday collections are down significantly.

henry

My mom has a PhD in Psychology, so zapping unless they hit the lever so often, then change up the rules on them. My escorts were for opiate receptor research, I had a hand guillotine and chopped heads off then performed brain surgery to collect the cortex, which was pureeed and the spun down into fresh cell walls for tagged ATP assays with opiates / nalaxone etc, which were run through gel slides, then developed on X-ray film.

Buckeye

If I have to resort to shooting squirrels and rabbits, I bet Henry can give me a refresher on skinning, gutting and dressing:)

Another Bob

"I was a convert and joined at the time that Benedict XVI"

I'm not Catholic anything MM, but did have some Catholic education and married into a fairly Catholic family. I've spent my share of time eating and drinking with Catholic priests and bishops, and one once prominent cardinal. (I once found myself on one of my in-laws back deck, drinking with a priest and a couple of retired bishops, wondering how the hell that happened to me ;) )

They're all just people. Their faith sometimes allows them to make some silly presumptions about how the world works, and to make poor arguments from authority.

You can live a Christian life without having to obey every word from the various Christian authority figures.

Buckeye

Anyone for purée of wabbit brain?

Jack Lillywhite

forgot to thank GJ for the comment on the "d" in CoVid-19.

In flight crew survival training ESE, we were each given a live bunny rabbit. You walk in to your encampment on snow shoes (this was Goose Bay, Labrador) and once there you made your billet. Then the instructor says if you are hungry, dinner is what you are holding.

Most guys went at least 2 to 3 days before break the rabbits neck so they could eat:)

D

Jimmyk:
And you would be absolutely correct.
Also, first it was ventilators, then it was masks and PPE’s now it is testing.
They will not win with their latest propaganda.

Threadkiller

From March 29th:


Trump:
“Throughout this great national struggle, the American people have embodied the unrivaled patriotism and willpower that has led America to conquer every challenge — every single one in our nation’s history. More than 90 percent of Americans say they’re staying home as much as possible, putting their lives, their careers, their educations, and their dreams on hold out of devotion to their fellow citizens and to their country. Social distancing: That’s the way you win.

I’ll check for more.

Tom R

Jack @ 5:20

I agree and that's what I had read as well. That would seem to indicate there is some kind of mechanism for bishops and cardinals to resort to in order to remove a pope.

D

Belgium priests have always been on the outside and are considered renegades and radicals who like to challenge the papacy.
JIB is correct.
I don’t think it was a coup.
Pope Francis was duly elected by the other cardinals.

D

I don’t believe there is a mechanism to remove a Pope that has been used in my lifetime. I am unaware of any such instrument..

Extraneus

Maxine Waters Says Her Sister Is Dying of Coronavirus

jimmyk

It was a coup to replace Benedict. No question since Cardinal Deneels of Belgium confessed in an article he wrote before he died.

How did they force Benedict to step down?

Melinda

Amom-

Please listen again, watching her mouth form "Fff_" before stopping and correcting herself and going on, After saying "Gates". That's the difference.

I will review as well for the word "To" being the corrected word after. I will be watching for teeth not lower lip touch so as to confirm the second word begun is "To" instead of "Foun...".

hoyden

Chinese Originated Viral Infectious Disease.

Extraneus

Self quarantining & shutting down businesses was done to FLATTEN the curve not to eliminate COVID. We needed time to prepare for increased hospitalization & obtain PPE. Many in the media are acting like we can’t open up until COVID is eliminated & that may never happen.

— Donald Trump Jr. (@DonaldJTrumpJr) April 23, 2020

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