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April 06, 2020

Comments

MissMarple2

Momto2,

You were right!

Maggie was named after an Australian shepherd that my Dad had who was a buddy of my son'e when he was a toddler.

At that time my Dad still raised Dorset sheep, and that Maggie used to follow my son around, keeping an eye on him in the farm yard.

Old Lurker

That WAS very good. Thanks Lyle.

clarice

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8197103/House-Armed-Services-committee-chair-demands-Donald-Trump-FIRE-navy-secretary.html

Jack Lillywhite

TomR,

BS. I am an a career Air Force brat of a command officer and an ex 4+10 O4 myself and I have never seen or read of any service member ever call out anyone over their service or lack of it, except today from you. Your training command should be real proud how you turned out.

Officer without being a Gentleman.

James D.

Breaking: Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly resigned Tuesday, U.S. military officials said, after denouncing Capt. Brett Crozier in angry remarks to the USS Theodore Roosevelt's crew~/I>

What an absolute, entirely preventable disaster.

Crozier undermines the national security of his country in his grandstanding effort to protect his men, and now he’s caused chaos in the leadership of the entire navy at a time when they might be called on to fight at any moment in the Persian Gulf or in the Pacific. Forget losing his command; he should be shot for the damage he’s caused.

jimmyk

Fixed?

James D.

Off?

macthenaif

Just dropped by to scan the views. Glad to be a Marxist of the Groucho variety.

jimmyk

So why did Modly resign, given that Crozier was fired for his act?

Tom R

TK @ 3:42

No but I have been in the position of being responsible for the health and welfare of troops so I am familiar with what the responsibility entails.

In light of his resignation, looks like my 10:40 this morning was the accurate take.

I won't be surprised if the SecNavy ends up falling on his sword and admitting he mishandled he firing.

MissMarple2

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
4h
The W.H.O. really blew it. For some reason, funded largely by the United States, yet very China centric. We will be giving that a good look. Fortunately I rejected their advice on keeping our borders open to China early on. Why did they give us such a faulty recommendation?
=====================================
A good question! Why DID they give us such a faulty recommendation? I will be interested in the "good look" the Administration gives them!

clarice

Sorry, Mike.

Momto2

CH - I'm sure she knew she had won the doggie lottery when she came to live with you! My Emma also has no interest in toys and was abandoned by someone (probably a hunter) in Va. - pregnant with puppies, rear-end full of buckshot, heartworm positive, broken leg never set which healed badly and had to be amputated. She loves me with her whole heart and it's mutual. There's something special about dogs who have endured poor treatment once they are rescued. Emma is somewhere over 10 years old, the last 6 with me. She and Darby make quite the pair with over 60 lbs. difference in their weight.

lyle

You know I wouldn’t steer you wrong, OL. 😉

MissMarple2

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
4h
Why didn’t the I.G., who spent 8 years with the Obama Administration (Did she Report on the failed H1N1 Swine Flu debacle where 17,000 people died?), want to talk to the Admirals, Generals, V.P. & others in charge, before doing her report. Another Fake Dossier!
=====================================
Another good question!

Threadkiller

No but I have been in the position of being responsible for the health and welfare of troops so I am familiar with what the responsibility entails.

Which makes you an “armchair admiral.” Let me know when you reach the level you asked everyone else to achieve.

James D.

just To add, the context is important here. If Crozier has been captain of a lone destroyer on patrol, or a single attack sub, or a ground commander of a small unit, I’d probably feel differently about his actions.

He was In command of the most powerful warship on Earth, armed with dozens of nuclear weapons, and an irreplaceable l piece of all our military plans offensively or defensively during a time of heightened tensions with China. Publicly complaining about the medical state of his crew and their unreadiness for battle is an open invitation for China to act aggressively. And anyone who reached his rank and position had to know that.

Extraneus

Crozier undermines the national security of his country in his grandstanding effort to protect his men

Or maybe he was more worried about himself.

Let's see how his judgment holds up if the Chinese decide to launch a desperation attack on our now-depleted fleet. They know they'll never return to their pre-virus power, and they've also heard the word "reckoning" being used by high officials in affected countries. These are cold-blooded people who would sacrifice millions of their fellow countrymen if necessary to achieve their objectives (as they have in the past) and could easily conclude that this is the best opportunity they'll ever have, thanks to the asshole captain.

Rocco

Jane, Think Big & Kick Ass In Business & Life

So sorry mike

Tom R

I have never seen or read of any service member ever call out anyone over their service or lack of it

Jack @ 3:49

I'm not certain what world you have been living in but there are countless examples of military leaders telling civilians until they have walked in their shoes to not pass judgment on their decisions.

If you took the time to actually read my response to OL, you would notice I was pointing out to him why he couldn't grasp why the captain did what he did. How you twisted that into me "calling out" OL is just silly.

MissMarple2

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
4h
Wisconsin, get out and vote NOW for Justice Daniel Kelly. Protect your 2nd Amendment!

Threadkiller

Tom is now a “military leader.”

When does it end?

Old Lurker

Lyle, Trump should run on getting those fixes in place at the Federal level and use it to pull state & local candidates who promise to do the same. "MAGA. Starting Right Here on Main Street."

Then buttress it by identifying all strategically critical supplies and forcing them to be made on shore by US companies.

MissMarple2

Just had a conf call w/ major lenders discussing our Great Small Businesses & the #PPPloan. I ask every company, big & small, making announcements about innovative contributions, hiring new workers, or looking to overcome setbacks to share your stories with #AmericaWorksTogether! pic.twitter.com/zfEy14aJ86

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 7, 2020

Video at the link.

jimmyk

Never mind, now I see. Modly fired Crozier, then started getting flak for how he handled it. Geez.

Ralph L

Modly shouldn't have called the fired CO "stupid or naive" in public. That's probably why he quit.

Stephanie Nene Not Your Normal Granma

I saw a smirk during "The Shooting" so that's why my take away was dey're buds.

I've seen pix of the two of them together. FWIW. Google images might find them.

boris

"military leaders telling civilians until they have walked in their shoes to not pass judgment"

Except in this case its a you telling us, many who have served, when you think it's right for a captain to disobey and break chain of command. IOW act like a civilian rather than follow military procedure.

D

Mike in Houston:
So sorry.. It is hard to lose a member of the family after nine years

Extraneus

This could be their big chance to invade Taiwan, btw. Does anyone not think they're considering it?

boris

If this were a discussion where reasonable people might disagree it would be one thing but it seems to be one individual claiming some higher calling to violate orders, chain of command, and deliberately engineer a disruptive leak Comey style.

Threadkiller

I think that is close, Ralph. Modly said that if the Captain didn’t know that an email to 20-30 people wouldn’t get leaked then he is either stupid or naive. That got changed by the media to “Modly called the captain stupid and naive.” Then the Navy spokespeople said something to the effect of “we are sorry but there is no official transcript of what SECNAV said so we can’t confirm anything.” Then an audio came out that clearly shows Modly saying the first statement not the first interpretation of his statement by the media.

Modly has made his own mess while dealing with Captain Clown’s ill advised maneuver.

Extraneus

The 'Big Stick' Carrier Strike Group Is Packing Some Major Firepower

The USS Theodore Roosevelt is likely the best protected aircraft carrier in history.

The aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt is currently operating in the Pacific Ocean and from the looks of it the “Big Stick” is one of the most well-protected warships in history. USS Roosevelt and its crew of five thousand is currently being escorted by no less than six guided-missile cruisers and destroyers, each packing nearly a hundred missiles. The images reinforce the notion that the U.S. Navy is, ton for ton, the largest and most capable navy sailing today.

Any one of those escort ships could have acted as a quarantine ship for evacuated sailors from the carrier, and likely replaced the evacuees with its own sailors. Then it could have safely taken them to Guam without anyone knowing a thing.

Tom R

Ext @ 4:09

I put the chances of that close to 0%. If the Chinese do attack then all those infected sailors will get back on the carrier and perform their duty as the captain pointed out they would in his letter.

Rocco

After Fauci deliberately ensured he was the last person to exit the stage, he attempted the sly signal of a ‘job well done’ in return to the salute he received from Jonathan Karl.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/04/06/abcs-jonathan-karl-invites-chinese-communist-party-to-attend-white-house-coronavirus-briefing/

I don't trust Fauci

lyle

https://pjmedia.com/trending/memory-hole-what-the-media-wants-you-to-forget-about-their-biased-coronavirus-coverage/

Of course, it's true that conservatives were slow to realize the danger of the coronavirus, and the right more or less turned on a dime when the threat became clear in mid-March.

No, we weren’t, son.

D

Boris :
I agree with you.
It was an attention grabbing move,
If Crozier started feeling sick himself , he probably thought it was worth the risk of disobeying a direct order.
Perhaps he was delirious with fever.

D

“I put the chances of that as near 0 percent.
Then you are not really the acclaimed military tactician that you fancy yourself to be. It is a fatal flaw for a commander not to be able to see the big picture.

D

Lyle:
We have the media on tape denouncing our President for shutting the border to Chinese travelers.
They were the ones downplaying the threat.
Classic projection and an Alinsky tactic that won’t work this time.

henry

I’m sure the press will try to blow this up bigger than anyone here, starting in half an hour or so.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/

MissMarple2

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-removes-ig-poised-to-oversee-coronavirus-stimulus-funds

Headline:

Trump removes inspector general poised to oversee coronavirus stimulus funds

Tom R

Maryrose @ 4:22

I am perfectly fine with you and anyone else thinking that the captain's letter is going to entice the Chinese to start World War 3. I'll stick with my assessment of near 0% probability of that happening.

Captain Hate

No, we weren’t, son.

PJM surely has some embedded dickweeds, like whoever signed up the loon prosecutor after RedState told him to fuck off before the readers said WTF, who come up with howlers like that. Treacher's another one who needs a power flush.

Ralph L

Looks like the Navy would have procedures for containing contagious diseases aboard.

Extraneus

Sen. Rand Paul recovers from coronavirus — and now he's volunteering at a Kentucky hospital

Jack is Back!

TomR lives in the post Reagan military while I live in the post JFK military, you know, VN and all that. But you never as an officer ever insult a civilian because of his lack of service.

Its a pretty simple part of military etiquette. I practice it and only asking TomR to do the same.

Extraneus

Due to the Wuhan Coronavirus, Illegal Immigration Has Plummeted and Hundreds of Border Agents Have Been Transferred

Extraneus

China: U.S. ‘Wasted Time’ in Coronavirus Fight Because Americans Are Racist

henry

@michael_hendrix

Fourteen years ago, Mayor Bloomberg released a pandemic plan for New York City and began stockpiling ventilators and N95 masks.

Mayor de Blasio later auctioned off the ventilators and disposed of the masks.

https://twitter.com/michael_hendrix/status/1247514154413576193?s=21

Extraneus
The third arrogance has to do with the West’s system of governance. Western countries emphasized that the actions of their governments are “transparent,” allowing people to better manage themselves because they take responsibility for themselves.

This has been proven to be blind confidence.

Because of these arrogances, the early reactions to the virus by the US and Europe were terrible. Considering China’s early experience, it is somewhat unforgivable that they made such serious mistakes.

Extraneus

And finally...

Sen. Graham: 'Here's the Big Question for 2020: Who Do You Want to Take On China?'

Tom R

But you never as an officer ever insult a civilian because of his lack of service.

It's a figment of your imagination that I was insulting OL for his lack of service. Go back and read what I wrote.

clarice

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN21P2LN?read=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2Fus-usa-court-deathpenalty-idUSKBN21P2LN&__twitter_impression=true

Pinandpuller

Are you enjoying your 90 day free trial of Communism 2.0?

We want your feedback!

jimmyk

I'd mentioned Cuomo amended his exec order re HCQ, but only slightly:

The directive contained in Executive Order 202.10 related to restrictions on dispensing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for prophylactic purposes is amended as follows: No pharmacist shall dispense hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine except when written: As prescribed for an FDA-approved indication; for an indication supported by one or more citations included or approved for inclusion in the compendia specified in 42 U.S.C. 1396r–8(g)(1)(B)(i); for patients in inpatient settings and acute settings; for residents in a subacute part of a skilled nursing facility; or as part of a study approved by an Institutional Review Board. Any person authorized to prescribe such medications shall denote on the prescription the condition for which the prescription has been issued.

I believe the only amendment is the bolded part. You need to have a law and medical degree to figure all this out, but it still sounds like your personal physician cannot prescribe it for you if you have symptoms of, or even test positive for, COVID-19, unless you happen to be in some kind of facility as mentioned.

https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/03/following-oddos-push-cuomo-amends-executive-order-affecting-nursing-homes.html

Extraneus

Backing up, that Chinese editorial is really something.

As the epidemic intensifies, the US and Europe are gradually adopting stricter prevention and control measures. But there have always been several problems in the process.

First, the governing parties have spent too much effort considering the interests of minorities and small groups. This is obvious in the US. Washington continues to put short-term political interests above people’s lives and social rights are a problem in the Western democratic system.

Second, they give capital to high a priority. When facing the COVID-19 fight, some politicians worry more about the epidemic affecting the economy, especially the stock markets. This is different from China’s people-oriented concept, showing that Western countries are indeed capitalist societies.

Third, the US and Europe have implemented social Darwinism in their policies. Since the spread of the COVID-19, some high-rank officials in the US and European countries have proposed “herd immunity.” Some even said elderly people, if diagnosed as COVID-19 patients, should sacrifice their lives to protect the overall situation.

...

In the past, the West gave people the impression of being developed and powerful in all aspects. But the COVID-19 pandemic has made people realize this is not exactly the case. Western countries are weak in the application of internet, big data and transportation networks. Their industrial production and technological capabilities are not as strong as one might expect. They have exposed many problems in their medical systems and government leadership.

China has shown strong leadership, industrial and technological capabilities and the entire society’s cultural cohesion and optimism in the fight against COVID-19. China is willing to contribute to the global fight against the pandemic, and Western countries need to change their previous wrong ideas as soon as possible.

lyle

Clarice’s link @ 4:36:

U.S. appeals court hands win to Trump plan to resume federal executions

Can we start with the WH press corps? On the WH lawn? Tomorrow at dawn?

Jack is Back!

Maybe you can't grasp the concept of it because you have never been in the military and in command of troops?

TomR,

You're right. Me and probably most of this board have a different concept of what an insult looks like. My God, man for the sake of your psyche, get help.

Marlene

Good afternoon! mike in houston,I'm so sorry for your loss.

D

Ext:
I like Rand Paul because he is a genuine person.
He has his principles and stands by them.
No wonder President Trump likes him so much.
What you see is what you get.
I wonder if the gal that was rejoicing about his contracting the virus, is doing anything worthwhile or helpful for others right now?

D

“Go back and read what I wrote”
Please, the first time was bad enough.

Jack is Back!

MM and Momto2,

There was a BBC or Channel 4 or ITV series when I was in the UK that featured sheep herding dogs as a Contest!t

Every week there would be a couple of herders vying for first place on how many sheep and what time it took to get them penned from a long hill down to the pen. It was fascinating and much watch TV back then.

Those dogs did it naturally. An innate custom for them. All looked to be those long hair black and white sheep dogs of Scotland?

MissMarple2

https://cnsnews.com/article/international/susan-jones/sen-graham-heres-big-question-2020-who-do-you-want-take-china

Headline:

Trump removes inspector general poised to oversee coronavirus stimulus funds

Tom R

Me and probably most of this board have a different concept of what an insult looks like.

Jack is Back at 4:41

I would just speak for yourself. If I had wanted to insult OL I would have made it a lot more obvious. He pointed out he couldn't grasp the concept of why the captain did what he did so I gave him the most likely explanation why. By qualifying it with "maybe" and ending with a "?" tells you I left the door open that there are other possible explanations.

MJW

Tom R, maybe people wouldn't react so negatively to you if your weren't such an arrogant jerk? (No insult intended.)

Pinandpuller

Do Your Part [OBEY]

Help Protect the Most Vulnerable [OBEY]

If You Can, Stay Home [OBEY]

Keep Your Distance [OBEY]

#AloneTogether  [#OBEY]

Neo

So, apparently Trump’s trust owns <$500 in one of the 45 companies that make hydrochloroquine

MJW

(My previous comment was actually just intended to show the falsity of Tom R's argument.)

Threadkiller

I understood it, MJW.

Pinandpuller

This looks like a good time to ask, are you a Basic Vet?

https://youtu.be/wpFDj1MJx_A

Extraneus
“The U.S. welcomes China’s call to combat the COVID-19 pandemic together,” State Department spokeswoman Morgan Ortagus said on Tuesday. “We urge Beijing to share all virus data, let international teams investigate how the outbreak began in China, and allow citizens free speech.”

“True cooperation requires transparency and real actions, not just rhetoric,” Ortagus added, possibly after reading the latest CCP editorials and deciding to directly refute them.

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/04/07/china-u-s-wasted-time-coronavirus-fight-because-americans-racist/

clarice

If this squabbling continues, I'm for more birthing stories. Get it?

Extraneus

...

Pinandpuller

If you don’t take the time to watch the video here’s the greatest takeaway:: “A Basic Vet spends his days...in unearned arrogance.”

Captain Hate

In case you think this is the only thread on the Internet arguing about Crozier

http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=386710

Tom R

MJW,

If you think I am an arrogant jerk, odds are pretty good the person I am responding to was even worse. I don't ever see you calling them out.

Old Lurker

"He pointed out he couldn't grasp the concept of why the captain did what he did so I gave him the most likely explanation why."

Of course, as the others so often have to say when wasting time on TomR, that is NOT what I said.

I did say, explaining precisely what I meant as I said it, that the military can only work if legal orders from a commander are followed. Period. That leaves no room for "Ethical" exceptions through the eyes of the orderee, nor does it require a TomR style "debate" by the commander before the subordinate agrees to follow said legal order. I said that I did not see how a military could function otherwise.

We have us a pattern here, guys.

Dave (in MA)

Caller on the Howie Carr 'Chump Line':

"I'm gonna ask my mom if that offer to 'slap me into next year' is still on the table."

Pinandpuller

It’s been my experience that people who have actually seen shit don’t share with outsiders the shit they’ve seen.

Ralph L

Oh dear, Clarice is going for her pistolas placentas.

Tom R

OL @ 5:13

I didn't quote you word for word in my response to JiB. That was the gist of how I interpreted your post. My direct response to you however still stands and it wasn't an insult.

Buckeye

I see our Superior Sociopathic Commanding Officer has been stinking up the blog again today.

Please Tom, just go away.

MissMarple2

Jack,

Yes. Those are Border Collies.

Australian Shepherds are similar in build and temperment, only have brown in their coats. English shepeherds are also similar, although no brown in the coat and slightly smaller in build.

MissMarple2

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
20m
White House news conference at 5:30 P.M. Eastern. Thank you!

Old Lurker

If it is, as TomR instructs us, a tenet of ALL military commanders to consider the health and wellbeing of the troops, then would said tenet not automatically be considered by the chain of command above the officer receiving the command and therefore should not the subordinate conclude his boss thought about it and issued the order he thought was required anyway, even if that might harm the troops? If that subordinate failed to communicate a failure in readiness to his boss before that order was formulated, that would be on the subordinate. If that subordinate had screwed up in such an important failure to communicate in a timely manner, broadcasting his failure to the world was pretty stupid or naive.

Excuse me while I go resign having said that.

MJW

If you think I am an arrogant jerk, odds are pretty good the person I am responding to was even worse. I don't ever see you calling them out.

As I mentioned in my follow-up comment, I was demonstrating that a "maybe" and a question mark don't defuse an insult. Which your response confirms.

MissMarple2

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
·
1m
Will be interviewed by @SeanHannity
tonight at 9:00 P.M. Eastern on @FoxNews. Look forward to it.

Pinandpuller

I knew this guy who was a chronic liar. I don’t know exactly what was going on at home but low self esteem was the least of his problems. He went off and joined the Navy. He called me a few times. He tried to convince me he was flying in a helicopter, pulled out his sidearm and shot at some dolphins.

Anyway, now he’s an O5 lifer, I kid you not. So maybe the Navy straightened him out. Or maybe 100,000 more guys like him explain the Navy.

Buckeye

So sorry to hear of Maggie’s passing Mike.

Pinandpuller

Miss Marple

George Soros breeds Open Border Collies.

Old Lurker

Pin, I wish I could say the navy straightened him out, but "Or maybe 100,000 more guys like him explain the Navy."

...and how said navy can drive the most technologically advanced ships owned by any nation into some tankers just poking along minding their own business.

MissMarple2

Pinandpuller,

Well, a good thing I went for English shepherds, isn't it?

Tom R

MJW @ 5:24

Point taken. Subtract "maybe" and the "?" out of my response and there still wasn't an insult in my response to OL.

KevlarKid

What does Crozier's "down the hall" Admiral have to say? Hmm?

MissMarple2

White House press conference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVeEmARzvfo

Jim,SunnyvaleCA,USA

kk: "Jim Sunny-- i mean this in a good way ... your conjecture about GUS was out of bounds."

So ... what you're saying is that theory number 2 is correct: Tom R is Gus' sock puppet, used to stir up drama. **nudge**wink**, got it.

KevlarKid

"Saturday, March 29

Modly tells his chief of staff, Bob Love, to contact TRCO Capt. Crozier, and the two exchange emails.Crozier and his superior officers are “struggling to reach a consensus on a plan of action, according to three people familiar with the discussions,” the Washington Post reported. “Among them were Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, who was embarked on the ship as its strike group commander, and Adm. John Aquilino, the commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet. Both admirals favored smaller mitigation efforts than Crozier wanted because of concerns about taking the carrier out of action and jeopardizing the mission.”

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2020/04/timeline-battle-uss-theodore-roosevelt/164408/

MissMarple2

Screen at press conference has gone live.

KevlarKid

Jim Sunnyvale:

You're conversing TomR style. I'll let it slide because people say stupid shit when they're embarassed. Enjoy your day.

henry

And Trump live

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