Gun Up!

After years of ducking Second Amendment cases the Supreme Court takes up a New York case about concealed carry permitting.

We all know what side they're on, but the NY Times provides useful coverage:

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court said on Monday that it would review a New York law that imposes strict limits on carrying guns outside the home, setting the stage for its first major Second Amendment case in more than a decade.

...

The Supreme Court has turned down countless Second Amendment appeals since it established an individual right to keep guns in the home for self-defense in 2008 in District of Columbia v. Heller.

Since then, lower courts have generally sustained gun control laws. But they are divided on the fundamental and open question posed by the new case: whether states can stop law-abiding citizens from carrying guns outside their homes for self-defense unless they can satisfy the authorities that they have a good reason for doing so.

...

The new case is a challenge to a New York law that requires people seeking a license to carry a gun outside their homes to show a “proper cause.” Two men denied licenses, along with the New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, sued, saying “the state makes it virtually impossible for the ordinary law-abiding citizen to obtain a license.”

California, Delaware, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey and Rhode Island have similar laws, according to gun rights groups.

Showing "Proper cause" for a permit is required in the NY State law (NY Penal Law 400). But what does it mean? Ahh!  Various NY courts have concluded that it means the applicant must demonstrate (Klenosky v. N.Y. City Police Dep’t)

'a special need for self-protection distinguishable from that of the general community or of persons engaged in the same profession.’ 

So "Its a dangerous world out there and I want to be ready for it" is not acceptable - its a dangerous world for all of us!

[Stray aside - as my years advance I'm wondering if I could go with a Tired Old Man permit application - the 'general public' has to be more agile, mobile and hostile than me, amirite? I need an Equalizer!]

Well. The 2008 Heller decision established a right (at the Federal level) to have a gun in the home as a means of self-defense, subject to reasonable regulation. That was expanded to a state-level right by the 2010 McDonald v. City of Chicago, and here we have sat for a decade.

The Times recaps some relevant cases. Some restrictive laws similar to NY have been upheld, most recently in Hawaii (last year the SC ducked a New Jersey case similar to this one.)

On the other hand, a restrictive Illinois law was struck down at the appeals level in 2012 Moore v. Madigan. Judge Posner wrote the decision and it is a likely roadmap for the current Supreme Court. Another case to consider as a possible roadmap is the 2017 Wrenn v. District of Columbia, which struck down restrictive concealed permitting there.

OK, lots of homework! My current guess is that everyone will hate the court's decision, whatever it is. I'll guess NY State will howl because the result will be a requirement of a more permissive process; gun enthusiasts will howl that the result does not go far enough.

Here is an exceprt from Posner, and I'll say it first - "Indians?!?". C'mon, man - 'Native Americans'!

We should be able to find plenty of thoughtful, sober evaluations of the Illinois experience post-Posner. No reason to think any of the research is politicized!

And do let me add: The Heller and McDonald decisions were a big deal establishing an individual right to bear arms but asking states to allow guns within the home didn't change much in most states (I'll guess a few cities were rocked.) Obliging states to lighten up on concealed carry laws is a MUCH bigger deal. The Court has a bit of a political and legitimacy crisis, so we'll see how Roberts navigates that.

Comments

[Neo]

After Biden's first 100 days in office, the Washington Post shuts down the presidential "fact-checking" database, started under former President Trump.

[Appalled]

On the prior thread, Stephanie quoted a really intelligent posting on conservative vs progressive views on natural rights. The sort of thing that gives me hope that once we navigate the next few years, we can go back to intelligent political conversation.

Then there is stuff like this:

https://amgreatness.com/2021/04/26/i-wont-take-the-vaccine-because-it-makes-liberals-mad/

[Narciso]

Why are they so protective

https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/fauci-scientists-attended-wuhan-lab-conference/

[Narciso]

The legion of doom gets back together

https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/google-soros-gates-fund-project-syndicate-linked-to-ccp/

[Narciso]

I dont know the fact that the gamgs are packing and the police are in retreat mighr have something with the urgency of personal seld defense.

[Narciso]

Even the police arent safe in the big apple with a thug mayor and a murder governor who is chairing the covid conference call when captain oveur bows out

https://nypost.com/2021/04/26/nypd-detective-hit-on-head-with-stick-in-broad-daylight-attack/

[Narciso]

And a procurator in the Capitol who wages a vendetta against police in practically every instance.

[Narciso]

They blew up a limo on conneticut avenue four years ago and the Capitol rewards the rioters with 1.6 million (having acquitted them, previously)

[Narciso]

So is there reasons why one should arm themselves i think there are.

[Neo]

President Biden, in an effort to pay for his ambitious economic agenda, is expected to propose giving the Internal Revenue Service an extra $80 billion and more authority over the next 10 years to help crack down on tax evasion by high-earners and large corporations, according to two people familiar with the plan.

What could possibly go wrong ?

[Narciso]

Listen here blondie resonate some understanding

https://www.google.com/amp/s/oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Energy-Secretary-Urges-Oil-Industry-To-Not-Become-Kodak.amp.html

[Narciso]

I noted this from across the emerald isle

https://computingforever.com/2021/04/26/climate-change-the-con-behind-the-covid-curtain/

[Narciso]

Failing upwards

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/cnns-new-reporter-natasha-bertrand

[Narciso]

They mean look at the tripe you put out

https://mobile.twitter.com/NPR/status/1386919896999682049

[Narciso]

Sometimes they bring their owm torch

https://thefederalist.com/2021/04/23/corporate-media-and-other-race-baiters-have-incited-more-violence-than-trump-ever-did/#.YIg5mRjflmQ.twitter

[Narciso]

Lookouts for drug dealers, latin king initiates some who stabs people in broad daylight thats who media and law enforcememr at the highest levels are venerating as heroes or victims

[Narciso]

Then there was this snippet

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2021/04/26/wild-video-captures-brawl-at-miami-international-airport/amp/

[Narciso]

Not only our persons

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/1386839988944392195

[MissMarple2]

At the end of the last thread I posted a link to a really great article in the New York Post categorizing Kerry’s perfidy over the last 40 years and how he’s skirting treason.

If someone could bring it over I would appreciate it. Am on my phone and always mess up on copying links.

[Narciso]

Here you go

https://nypost.com/2021/04/26/john-kerry-is-skirting-the-line-of-treason-with-iran/

[Narciso]

Mostly harmless

https://mobile.twitter.com/gregoryjon/status/1387005144357822465?s=21&fbclid=IwAR05fkU6aqF7_CFuAZ2L21_HmDqW6qUz5TsPe9K2r6rVEW8M-GtfDDOsgrw

[Narciso]

Maybe they should have run her instead

https://mobile.twitter.com/BenjaminT0001/status/1386854848201732102

[MissMarple2]

Thanks, Narciso!

That guy is a menace. Perhaps we should revisit the plane crash that removed Senator Heinz from this earthly realm.

[Narciso]

Vietnam nicaragus and then syris now iran who ever is a soviet proxy or islamic enabler youll fimd him.

[Narciso]

Nicaragua and syria.

[MissMarple2]

Narciso,

Right. An outright agent, if you ask me. And don’t forget his stepson ran around with Hunter Biden.

[MissMarple2]

Heh. Midsomer Murders coroner to Inspector Barnaby on examining a victim found dead on an exercise bike, electrocuted we discover later :

“It is my opinion men past a certain age should not take up exercise. Promise me, Tom, you won’t do so in an effort to reclaim your lost youth.”

[rse]

Actually on point, one of my daughters was a bridesmaid at a wedding in rural TN. Not an area where there is much around and having a concealed carry permit she took a pistol in the car and had it in the motel room with her.

A few months after the wedding there was a prison break and the convicts later took hostages less than 10 miles from where she had stayed for wedding. You really can't rely on the cops in a rural area, but I guess that's not a problem since NY State has no rural areas, does it?

People have no right to be safe outside their homes unless they can afford private security in NY State or a predator has been kind enough to announce their intentions in advance so a statement can be turned into an affidavit? Really?

Red and I drove from Pittsburgh to ATL stopping in WV overnight after dropping off another child for a summer program. A cop friend later asked me to come back through Indiana if I ever did it again because unknowingly I had been surrounded by lots of meth labs and addicts coming through WV.

But NY STATE has no areas with meth labs since it's all urban, right?

[Neo]

Ben Rhodes gets into the act
https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/1387051664205488135

Ben "BenSmiths" us into thinking:

A: This is a lie created and spread by right wing media!
B: This is no big deal because everybody already knew about it anyway!

The finest in Schrödinger's logic

[MissMarple2]

The replies to that Chuck Ross tweet about. Rhodes are quite good.

[henry]

Does this health director know a dry cleaning bag as mask blocks all germs? She should try it and get back to us.

” We have seen benefits of masking that occur,” Health Director Dr. Nicole Alexander-Scott told The Providence Journal.

“So there may be a new form of normalcy where masks don’t necessarily have to go away.”

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/health-experts-encourage-cdc-implement-permanent-mask-mandates

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

The 2nd amendment says it relates the "the security of a free state" not to personal self defense.
The primary purpose of the 2nd amendment was to shoot governments who attempt to usurp our rights and only secondarily to shoot criminals who did so.
There is no greater act of self defense than overthrowing a tyrannical government.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--” We have seen benefits of masking that occur,” Health Director Dr. Nicole Alexander-Scott told The Providence Journal.--

And what are they?
The 2020 preliminary numbers are out and despite what one hears, flu and pneumonia deaths actually increased about 10% over 2019 AND there were another 345,000 deaths from covid, so what is this benefit she speaks of?
A bunch of people submitted to authority with essentially zero scientific support but only because they were told to by apparatchiks?

[matt - deplore me if you must]

narc, I think you have it wrong. What NPR really meant to say is that radical Leftist talk show hosts have weaponized irony to gain adherents. Isn't that ironic?

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--On the prior thread, Stephanie quoted a really intelligent posting on conservative vs progressive views on natural rights. The sort of thing that gives me hope that once we navigate the next few years, we can go back to intelligent political conversation.--

Hope is not a substitute for cogent analysis or knowledge. Over the next few years we will be navigating a grab for one party rule by the sons of Marx whose view of natural rights should be anathema to any thinking person in precisely the same way Hitler's were and for precisely the same reasons. Critical race theory, the Green New Deal and the other explicitly Marxist, anti free market, pro government control and central planning tropes and projects underway are not euphemisms for something more benign. They are exactly what they claim to be and the hope they are simply going to fade away is about as likely as the Marxist dictatorship of the proletariat doing so.
They are stating quite explicitly and are mapping out for us the course to authoritarian rule they are embarked on. So, I do encourage you to continue reading Michael Smith because he understands what is occurring and the likely course of events. I especially encourage you to keep reading him as he broaches the themes that you often read here. Though often with a bit more hyperbole here, they are essentially one and the same.

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Then there is stuff like this:--

Fair enough Appalled, though he does broach more conventional reasons at the start of his column for avoiding the vaccine.
I had no real objection to the vaccine until I read this which seems to me raises some legitimate and serious questions about possible long term effects of the vaccines.
Since we know ~70-80% of those who died were probably going to get knocked off by the next thing that came along anyway and that the risk for healthy people under 65 or 70 is pretty miniscule seems to me those issues raise a perfectly plausible and justifiable reason for that younger healthier cohort to hesitate getting vaccinated.

[Narciso]

Thats what 5hey did with stewart and camelbert but thats what they are teferring to

[Narciso]

Unlawful imprisonment unsanctioned electronic surveillance collusion of us govt with chinese state entities a mob let loose at a major airport anything of note.

[Jane]

NEW1

[Jane]

Oops wrong thread!

[Narciso]

Garland reminds me of mitchell palmer but there was a pretext to that crusade,

[Narciso]

Thats convenient

https://mobile.twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1387125622762319873

[Narciso]

Dissapointing

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/louis-menand-cultural-death-march

[Narciso]

Lol

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1387115951636762628

[Narciso]

More of that moderation

https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-sba-pick-serves-on-the-board-of-anti-israel-group/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[Jim Eagle]

narciso,

Stalag 21!

Fauci as Sgt. Schultz:)

[MissMarple2]

Well, for reasons unknown to me my car wouldn’t start. Dead as a doornail. Battery, generator or alternator is my guess. Daughter took me to the grocery and I am set until my son can come down on Saturday and jump it.

Then we will see what the diagnosis is. I drove it on Sunday so this was totally unexpected.

Went to the big Kroger close by in which I saw more tattoos than I imagined possible😜. As my dad often said, I’’ve lived too long.

[Narciso]

Ive had more than a few instances

[Narciso]

Berenson has a very dry wit.

[Narciso]

The post in question

Attention citizens! Your Dept. Of Pandemia is pleased to report you may now leave your houses. Please note, daylight hours only and you must carry wolfsbane. Don't thank us, it's our job to look out for you. Attention citizens!
Replies

[Melinda]

Glomping it all together.

Kerry 🇺🇸 (Gab: kerry2017) (Parler: k1erry)
@K1erry
“These documents blow up the big lie that Big Tech censorship is ‘private’ – as the documents show collusion between a whole group of government officials in multiple states to suppress speech about election controversies.” electionwiz.com/2021/04/27/bre…

https://twitter.com/K1erry/status/1387139475126591492

Hmmm.

https://www.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2021-02/210218-2853a-Authorisation-to-Supply-or-Administer-Vaccine-CHO-IoA-signed-A-Robertson-18022021-%28WITH-ANNEXURES%29.pdf

https://www.wa.gov.au/government/publications/public-health-act-2016-wa-instrument-of-authorisation-authorisation-supply-or-administer-poison-sars-cov-2-covid-19-vaccine-australian-defence-force-no2-2021

[Melinda]

Chinese National Sentenced to 14 Years in Prison for Laundering Drug Proceeds on Behalf of Traffickers in Mexico

CHICAGO — A federal judge in Chicago today sentenced a Chinese national to 14 years in prison for laundering illegal narcotics proceeds on behalf of drug traffickers in Mexico.

XIANBING GAN schemed in 2018 to have approximately $534,206 in narcotics proceeds picked up in Chicago and transferred to various bank accounts in China, with the money ultimately intended for drug traffickers in Mexico. Unbeknownst to Gan, a purported money courier who picked up the drug proceeds in Chicago was an undercover law enforcement agent.

“The defendant was part of a recent phenomenon in which a relatively small network of Chinese money brokers based in Mexico have come to dominate international money laundering markets,” Assistant U.S. Attorneys Sean J.B. Franzblau and Richard M. Rothblatt argued in the government’s sentencing memorandum. “Like defendant, many of these brokers are also engaged in legitimate business, and use that business as cover for and to further money laundering activity. It does not matter that defendant never personally distributed narcotics – drug distribution and money laundering are two-sides of the same malignant coin.”

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/pr/chinese-national-sentenced-14-years-prison-laundering-drug-proceeds-behalf-traffickers

That be mapped.

[Jim Eagle]

jamesd & others,

Enjoy the altenare site but I can never get past the “Introduce yourself” section.

[Jim Eagle]

...alternate....

[Marlene]

Greetings from Portsmouth NH! We will be visiting both mothers tomorrow morning before finally arriving at the cabin in the woods later in the afternoon. We had a long and uneventful trip. We didn't see any nanny state signs about Covid until we got into Massachusetts this morning. :)

[Narciso]

This was the kerfluffle this morning

https://www.timesofisrael.com/high-court-freezes-netanyahu-led-appointment-of-likud-ally-as-justice-minister/

Yapours

[Melinda]

Actually started yesterday, when the Professional Left went berserk on the appointment. Many pixels were spent to get someone into court about it.

[Jane]

Marlene! You are fast! (Or I can’t tell time)

Hope you brought masks.

[James D.]

Jim Eagle @ 6:02

Do you mean you can’t see anything else on the site? You have to register and then I approve you and you have full access.

[Narciso]

Yes you cant have your own guy, only the one who will run you aground

[Melinda]

Jack Posobiec

@JackPosobiec

· 42m

BREAKING: FBI used NSA to snoop on Americans' communications WITHOUT a warrant in search for "far-right domestic extremists" - despite being warned it was unconstitutional

https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9516639/FBI-sifted-troves-foreign-communications-information-American-WITHOUT-warrant.html

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1387172295370756098

[Narciso]

Shirley

https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/04/hunter-biden-will-guest-host-tulane-u-class-on-media-polarization/

[Jim Eagle]

The FBI has been Spying domestically since Hoover. Not news to me at all.

[Narciso]

So there is that

https://amgreatness.com/2021/03/30/the-insurrection-probe-is-falling-apart/

[Narciso]

Yes but they generally spied on the bad guys now its the converse

[Davod]

Narciso - Who they thought were the bad guys. No Change.

[Narciso]

Heh

https://mobile.twitter.com/SethDillon/status/1387152136643952645

[Narciso]

Any more bright ideas

https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1387195923789398016

[Narciso]

Context to this morning

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Indo-Pacific/China-adds-carrier-pier-to-Djibouti-base-extending-Indian-Ocean-reach

[Narciso]

Interesting
https://amp.thenationalnews.com/mena/lebanon/saudi-arabia-bans-lebanese-produce-after-600-million-pills-seized-in-six-years-1.1210296

[MissMarple2]

I really hope people get stirred up about Kerry. The more I think about all the evil stuff he’s been involved in, the madder I get.

[Narciso]

And yet some will make excuses for him

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.jpost.com/middle-east/iran-news/give-john-kerry-a-break-this-time-zarif-is-the-problem-analysis-666477/amp

[Melinda]

The leak was aimed at Zarif, not Kerry. No one respects Long Jawn.

[CCGirl]

Marlene, of course Mass is the only state with covid highway signs. It’s highly annoying. I am also pissed off at my town for the signs on Main St, “Wear a mask.”

How about saying “Please?” Did your mother fail to teach you any manners? At least then it wouldn’t be so rude!

Husband just said that I may hurt my arms and fingers tonight as I continue to give the finger, or double fingers to all of the jerks that Tucker is highlighting.

Baker says we can be mask free outside this Friday, but only with family, or if not we must social distance. Insert the finger emoji here! 🤯. Oh, and more people can gather together May 10th. The day after Mother’s Day. Mutha F-er!

Have I had it? Yup.

[Narciso]

The same people who treat bibi dismissively or with disdain.

[CCGirl]

MissM, the only people stirred up about Kerry are you, me, and everyone who voted for Trump. Absolutely everyone else is completely clueless, or they just don’t care.

[Narciso]

Okunis has pointed criticized zuabi was all for the hamas flotilla refusec to award one scientist for his ex cathedra statements on military service

[Narciso]

Well remember what they said about wookies

https://www.wwltv.com/mobile/article/news/crime/wanted-chewbacca-street-performer-suspected-in-french-quarter-stabbing/289-70f7ba0a-87ff-4087-8a7a-7e24c676fb48

[CCGirl]

Narc, knives don’t kill. I can’t wait fir my next high school reunion, where we can knife fight like we did as kids!

[CCGirl]

for.

[Narciso]

Now the thing is blinken not to mention his school chum nod (malley) are doing the same thing with regards to iran

[Narciso]

Thats just your opinion man

https://davidblaska.com/2021/04/27/madison-schools-quit-teaching-racism/

[Narciso]

So just soylent green then

https://mobile.twitter.com/0x49fa98/status/1386787860284682244

[Narciso]

Logic escaoes these people

https://www.wesh.com/article/florida-democrats-republicans-congressional-seat/36268561

How come they were able to count all the new peopld in texas

[MissMarple2]

CCGirl,

There are others.

Say, I know you are probably too young, but does anyone remember having the bread man come to their house?

I remembered this today because of a coffeecake I bought at Kroger which looked like one my mother would sometimes get from the bread man. He was from Omar Bakery and came by twice a week with a big metal basket, and he would knock on the door and yell "Omar Bakery!" Mom would let him in and get a couple of loaves of bread, and if we were lucky, she would have enough money to get us chocolate doughnuts, the coffee cake, or Hostess snowballs.

Early 1950's Indianapolis...good memories.

[CCGirl]

Huh, just went to Ace of Spades. His most recent post had a bunch of animal videos, so cute and sweet. I no longer feel the need to give the finger to everything in sight :-). Sorry for the crankiness earlier 😳. However, if I see Kerry’s face I may regress.

My dog is seems fine after the attack yesterday, but he’s sleeping like he never has before. Usually he’s on the sofa with me, but he’s still in his bed. He didn’t even move when my youngest dragged his bed from the kitchen to the living room. I believe sleep is a great healer, so if he’s hurting, then I hope he’s healing.

[Narciso]

It was pretty dramatic for him im sure.

[Narciso]

This one

https://youtu.be/5sMkIaLpMWw

[MissMarple2]

Maggie VandenBerghe
@FogCityMidge
·
48m
BREAKING: Epoch Times have had press credentials for Congress removed & believe it’s due to their criticism of China.
Face with open mouth

[CCGirl]

Narc, I saw that one with the kittens. Adorable.

[CCGirl]

Night!

[MissMarple2]

Good night, CCGirl!

[Narciso]

What qualifies garbage publications that trade on second and third rate rumor defemd violent criminals carry water for enemy powers.

[MissMarple2]

Heading to bed.

Good night, all!

[Momto2]

Everyone's turning in early? Here is my contribution to weird story of the day...
https://nypost.com/2021/04/27/man-busted-at-jfk-airport-with-35-live-finches-stuffed-inside-hair-curlers/

[Davod]

This twitter account was linked at Ace. It contains some great Babylon Bee articles.

Example - Entire Water Polo team drowns kneeling during National Anthem.

https://twitter.com/Gee2TheAitch/status/1385478777245941760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1385478777245941760%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Face.mu.nu%2F

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

--Epoch Times have had press credentials for Congress removed--

Words fail.
This is akin to the Congress of the thirties revoking an anti imperial Japan press credential on orders of Tojo.

[Narciso]

That qualifies

[Ignatz Ratzkiwatzki]

I finally got around to reading that AmGreatness story on vaccines that scandalized Appalled this morning.
Seemed pretty reasonable to me. He first noted reasons making it of little consequence if he did get vaccinated and then noted the authoritarian spirit behind the demands we get vaccinated and quite rightly noted that the people voicing those authoritarian demands are the same ones attempting to fundamentally transform our Constitutional republic. By and large it has proven quite reasonable to do pretty much the opposite of what those creeps demand in almost every instance. And since the refusal of young healthy people like him to be vaccinated will have close to no impact on others or the world at large, good for him.
Appalled not only thinks, incorrectly, that responding to irrationality and authoritarianism meekly and respectfully will bring about general meekness and respectfulness, he cannot see that brooking it rather than fighting it leads one to accept at some level that its irrationality and authoritarianism are legitimate and should be engaged like any other philosophical problem rather than fought as the existential threat they are.

He must have found it by its being linked by some popular prog site since the comment section of that particular AG article is absolutely flooded with nasty, sanctimonious progs.

[Dave (in MA)]

Self defense is infrastructure.